Hartley elected Lord Mayor of Belfast
Tom Hartley of Sinn Fein has been elected the new Lord Mayor of Belfast, replacing Jim Rodgers. The new deputy mayor David Browne of the UUP abstained rather than vote for the DUP’s Diane Dodds citing “personality reasons.” He also pointed out that since Hartley received two more votes than Diane Dodds, his voting for her would not have made any difference. Mrs. Dodds has accused him of “opportunism.”
Unionist unity seems unlikely and even cooperation some way off.
Incidentally did Alliance vote for Hartley?
Mr Hartley added: “It will be my aim as Lord Mayor to help develop our city’s political culture, away from a legacy of division towards civic and cultural diversity — to turn what divides us into a diversity that enriches our city and the lives of its citizens..”
The political mould of Belfast was broken in 2002 when Sinn Fein’s Alex Maskey became its first republican First Citizen and the political house did not fall down – as predicted by some hard-line unionists.
Turgon, that’s from
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0602/breaking54.htm
Interesting to note the difference in emphasis between your post and the above.
Different strokes eh?
Incidentally did Alliance vote for Hartley?
Yes, otherwise he wouldn’t have been elected Lord Mayor. And as Reg Empey was ‘indisposed’, the Shinners didn’t actually need Davy Browne’s abstention but they got it and Davy got the Deputy Mayoralty in return.
Unionist unity seems unlikely and even cooperation some way off.
I don’t know, when it came to the crunch, every single Unionist rowed in behind Davy Browne’s candidature for Deputy Mayor. The DUP could have even feigned protest by putting up their own candidate in the first round before rowing in beind Browne on the second ballot. But at the end of the day the DUP vote for any Unionist ahead of anyone else even if they’re being shafted in the process.
I have no gripe with the Shinners voting for Davy Browne. It was smart politics on their part and they got a good deal. But the DUP were just pathetic, being led by the nose by one of the weakest Councillors in the City Hall.
The DUP – leadership that’s working… out exactly what they point of them being there is. And failing.
Turgon – is your point being this is bad or good?
The DUP – leadership that’s working… out exactly what they point of them being there is. And failing.
Posted by Sammy Morse on Jun 02, 2008 @ 10:35 PM
I think you`l find, once again, it was the UUp who let the side down.
Oh Come on – Tom Hartley not exactly a combatant was he ? Here’s a chance to see real power sharing – looking forward to it.
I think its a fair enough not to vote for Diane Dodds on personality reasons, she’d be bloody unbearable as Lord Mayor
Tom Hartley has wide cultural interests and will make a great Mayor for all citizens of this great city. Dianne Dodds has worked consistently to build a niche for herself and makes a great Dianne Dodds.
Given that the unionists have a record of consistently supporting individuals linked to active loyalist paramilitary organizations which aren’t even on ceasefire, they’re hardly in a position to complain. And thank christ, for the first time, they didn’t make a song and dance out of it.
I think Hartley will be a great mayor – well…as much as Mayors in Northern Ireland can be. Great cultural background. Respected all over town.
By the way – if I’d been David Browne, I’d have done the same thing. The UUP let no one but Dianne Dodds’ ego down.
Anyway. Let’s not get too riled over this one. It’s a mayor. In Northern Ireland.
This, surely, is where we at Slugger came in (scroll to the bottom)? Welcome to ’2002 lite’!
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Given that the unionists have a record of consistently supporting individuals linked to active loyalist paramilitary organizations which aren’t even on ceasefire, they’re hardly in a position to complain. And thank christ, for the first time, they didn’t make a song and dance out of it.
Posted by Comrade Stalin on Jun 02, 2008 @ 11:16 PM
At least alliance are consistent in supporting any terrorist scumbag
“A party spokesman revealed yesterday” (this is from some while back) “that the BBC had given him the names of two well-known republicans who had allegedly been warned by the police that they were under suspicion as informers. The Sinn Fein officer said when he approached the pair, they denied it. He named them as Tom Hartley, a former Belfast city councillor, and Richard “Dickie” Glenholmes, a former IRA operations officer.
Glenholmes served 10 years in jail in Britain for attempting to spring Brian Keenan, a former IRA chief of staff, from Brixton prison using a hijacked helicopter. Glenholmes’s daughter, Eibhlin (Evelyn), is one of the IRA “on-the-run” terrorist suspects for whom Sinn Fein is seeking freedom from prosecution.
Hartley, who was general secretary of Sinn Fein from 1984 to 1991, once led protests against the RUC. He has stepped back from a frontline position in Sinn Fein in recent years.”
I think you`l find, once again, it was the UUp who let the side down.
No, I think you’ll find that there hasn’t been a Unionist majority in Belfast for 11 years. The Ulster Raj is over. Get with the programme. Horsetrading is the name of the game in Stormont, in the City Hall and in town halls across NI. Being outmanouevred by Davy Brown is not something to boast about.
Given that the unionists have a record of consistently supporting individuals linked to active loyalist paramilitary organizations which aren’t even on ceasefire, they’re hardly in a position to complain.
Exactly, Stalin, before you even think about how many UUP and PUP councillors are up to their oxters in paramilitarism. Before you even think that both the UUP and DUP are in coalition with the Shinners at Stormont and still can’t bring themselves to let one of the more progressive SF Councillors wear a chain around old peoples homes and community festivals for a year. Instead they’d rather inflict us with things like this.
Being outmanouevred by Davy Brown is not something to boast about. -
Hardly outmanouered , he choose a republican over a Unionist and Sir Reg wasnt anywhere to be seen
ne of the more progressive SF Councillors -
So hartley didnt support the murderer of innocent men, women and children carried out by the IRA? Very progresssive
Observer – one of the blokes who was critical in bringing it to an end. Or did you want it to continue?
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Observer – one of the blokes who was critical in bringing it to an end. Or did you want it to continue?
Posted by Dewi on Jun 02, 2008 @ 11:45 PM
Hardly , the provos were a spent force, riddled with informers..who said hartley was a spy lol
He supported the shinners when the provos were at the worst. Nice and progressive mmmm see the alliance stand in awe of him!
At least alliance are consistent in supporting any terrorist scumbag
Yup, those consistently anti-terrorist unionists who supported a UVF mayor when the UVF were butchering innocent Belfast people left right and centre!
Thursday 17 February 1994
Sean McParland (55), a Catholic civilian, was mortally wounded in a gun attack carried out by the Red Hand Commando (RHC), a cover name used by the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF), while he was baby-sitting his four grandchildren in north Belfast.
Thursday 7 April 1994
Margaret Wright (31), a Protestant civilian, was badly beaten by a group of men, and then finally shot four times in the head, in a Loyalist band-hall in the Donegal Road area of Belfast. [She had been invited to the hall on the evening of 6 April 1994 and was then killed by Loyalists who believed that she was a Catholic.
Thursday 28 April 1994
James Brown (47), a Catholic civilian, was shot dead by the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) at his shop, Garmoyle Street, Docks, Belfast.
Tuesday 17 May 1994
Eamon Fox (42) and Gary Convie (24), both Catholic civilians, were shot dead by the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) at a building site on North Queen Street.
Wednesday 1 June 1994
The various anti-terrorist Unionist parties happily vote for the PUP’s Hugh Smyth as Lord Mayor, because we all know that people who shoot fenians aren’t really terrorists. Unless they’re the IRA.
That’s just looking at Belfast – before we even think about the 76 year old grandmother the UVF offed in Coalisland, the 80-something man they butchered along with 5 others in Loughinislandm etc., etc. When it comes to terrorism, we can depend on Unionists to be absolutely consistent. Absolutely consistent in their double standards.
The various anti-terrorist Unionist parties happily vote for the PUP’s Hugh Smyth as Lord Mayor, because we all know that people who shoot fenians aren’t really terrorists. Unless they’re the IRA. -
No theyre all terrorist bastards UvF, IRA etc, shoot them all, or is that too extreme for the alliance?
Absolutely consistent in their double standards.
Posted by Sammy Morse on Jun 02, 2008 @ 11:51 PM
You`re the one calling someone who supported the IRA at the height of its murdering camapaign a “progressive”
No theyre all terrorist bastards UvF, IRA etc, shoot them all, or is that too extreme for the alliance?
Well, it was too extreme for the DUP and UUP who were happy to vote for the PUP at the height of the UVF’s murder campaign.
Maybe you should take your gripes up with them?
Well, it was too extreme for the DUP and UUP who were happy to vote for the PUP at the height of the UVF’s murder campaign.
Maybe you should take your gripes up with them?
Posted by Sammy Morse on Jun 03, 2008 @ 12:01 AM
you`re the one complaining about the UVF (although very silent on the provos i note)
observer,
The point is reasonably straightforward. Alliance have never nominated an individual linked with an active paramilitary organization for public office. Unionism has, and has done so consistently throughout it’s own history. This is why your feigned opposition to terrorism rings hollow.
Erm Comrade Stalin and Gerry Lynch,
The point is reasonably straightforward. Alliance have never nominated an individual linked with an active paramilitary organization for public office
So the provos weren’t still killing people, robbing banks, smuggling et al after 2002?
Ha! God I love you wee ‘ums and your crazy ideas!
to percy (first post) – was that the same alex maskey who went on to lie about robert mccartney’s murder, who helped the sinn fein/ira leadership cover up the killing – is hartley in the same proud tradition of cross-community healing and political moderation!?? or are you just full of crap like all the chucks?
So the provos weren’t still killing people, robbing banks, smuggling et al after 2002?
The UVF don’t have the two biggest drug dealers in Ireland on their pay roll? Take the orange tinted sunglasses off, sunbeam.
Gerry, I asked you a question, it is only polite to at least try to answer it.
So I’ll ask again, were PIRA an active paramilitary organisation in 2002 when Alliance still voted for one of them as mayor?
Simple yes/no will do nicely.
Come on now, we’ve had an IRA leader as Deputy First Minister for over a year now — without the sky falling on our heads, I may add — and some of you can’t get over a second SF mayor? A role that is largely ceremonial and almost entirely divorced from anything related to the question of nationality?
If Alliance are carefully coordinating turns on the the merry-go-round, in their ill-conceived and naive notion of political fairness, perhaps they should consider how many old, white men they’ve helped hang the chain on each year.
It makes me laugh/despair all these posters defending uniunist and SF politicos when these assholes have constantly proven themselves to be assholes, who have both been in bed with thugs and murderers when it suited them and who try to fool a gullable electorate that they are decent guys who realy realy care about them.Get wise, they are all scoundrels, no more, no less. they will be laughing thier heads off at you whilst they sip champers in a 5 star hotel in Chicago
Dick,
The IRA were observing a ceasefire recognized by the government and (subsequently) their political progress was underscored by the IMC.
This is in marked contrast to supporting people who do not have a recognized ceasefire and whose ongoing commitment to paramilitarism is reflected by the IMC. That is what I meant when I said “active”.
Anyone know where it shows who/which party voted for each candidate.
I liked the comment made above by Dianne Dodds makes a great Dianne Dodds lol
Politics isn’t really working if you have families domineering the theatre of Stormont: as an MLA and councillor would she be obliged to stand down as workload if she became Lord Mayor …
Thank God there will be a law soon to morally tell these people that this is what the people want.
Don’t know Sammy but Sf, Sdlp and Alliance would make the numbers about right.
Dewi,
ta.
ps All Blacks on Sat – remember you heard it here first – we’ll ‘ave ‘em.
Don’t know why Diane is getting on her high horse so much – the DUP and SF are so joined at the hip nowadays that we won’t notice any difference between a DUP mayor and a SF one.
The following had been agreed between the DUP and the Ulster Unionists.
1. Complete UUP support for Lord Mayor position.
2. Complete DUP support for Deputy Lord Mayor
3. That would have produced 25 votes
4. Rodger’s would have had the casting vote and then Diane would have had the casting vote for DLM
5. Diane Dodds would have been elected as Lord Mayor and the UUP would have taken DLM
What put the kibosh on the deal was the failure of the leader of the Ulster Unionist party to be in attendance at the meeting and the “no-vote” of David Browne which was handsomely rewarded with 14 Sinn Fein votes for Deputy.
The DUP kept their side of the deal as agreed.
The UUP can’t be trusted as far as you can throw them – but then we all knew that anyway.
ZoonPol
Diane Dodds is only a Councillor. She lost her West Belfast Assembly seat at the last election.
Delta Omega
“the DUP and SF are so joined at the hip nowadays that we won’t notice any difference between a DUP mayor and a SF one.”
Have you been on a different planet recently? Or else a case of extreme short term memory loss because I jsut answered you on a different blog on the issues over the last couple of days. Try not to be soooo bitter and resentful. It gives you wrinkles
Mr Stalin.
The IRA were observing a ceasefire recognized by the government and (subsequently) their political progress was underscored by the IMC.
Ceasefire my ass.
Were PIRA still an active paramilitary organisation in 2002? I’m asking your opinion, not Blairs or Gerrys.
Were SF/PIRA still murdering after 2002, smuggling, robbing banks, carrying out punishment beatings etc etc. ?
Simple yes/no answer will do nicely.
Im still waiting on Sammys (Gerrys) reply.
Dick Swett, stop being a ‘Dick’
You may be hurting today but it’s tough, Sinn Fein have as much right as any other party to avail of the Mayoral position, after all they are currently the 2nd largest party on the council.
Funny how when I recently referred to some Unionist politicians trying to turn the clock back 40 years I was accused of resorting to stereotyping…ho hum.
Paul,
Erm hurting? Me? Hmm
If you actually read the sh*te that some APNI posters have said above?
Some significances that seem to be missed:
My reading last year was that Tom Hartley was out of favour with Sf during an internal witchhunt;did he not announce subsequently his intention not to contest the next Council elections?. So being chosen by SF as their rep for Mayor signals a golden handshake/kiss and make up.
Dianne Dodd: Lost out as MLA at last election – a Mayoral role this year would up her profile and enhance her chances next time. Makes timely the call by DUP party bleaders at the weekend for greater cooperation with UU “to benefit the unionist people”.
Tom Hartley is quizzed re “would he meet Royalty” but correct me if I mis-remember but when Lord mayor did Sammy Wilson not (rudely) refuse to meet the Dali Lama and Bill Clinton on behalf of the people of NI?
Also,Dewi: on what basis do you claim that Hartley is “hardly a combatant”? He is a member of SF, has been in jail and if at last he has seen the light we should be grateful?
But let’s us give him a fair wind – to see someone from a working class background do a good job as Lord Mayor makes visible the changes that are taking place in NI.
Sammy Morse
I actually agree with all of your points about the UUP and PUP mayors,and the nonsense of being in Government with Shinners while objecting to them holding a symbolic post- but there’s one thing I think needs clarified, if you’d be so kind.
Did Alliance support Qughie Smyth for lord mayor or McCoubrey for deppity? If they didn’t- as I seem to recall-why not? Surely if Maskey /Hartley are fit for office then so were the two loyalists?Or was it the size of the SF mandate that got them over the finishing line of respectability?
If they did then I stand corrected.
Jeez, you guys like a row.
It’s only the Mayor of Belfast. What power does that position hold? Not much, if any.
Anbody know how many years it will be before there will be an outright Nationalist majority on the City Council?
Are there boundary changes in the pipeline?
The fact that SF lost a seat to Alliance after the McCartney incident seems to indicate that Alliance represents people who are not entirely happy with SF’s handling of this event. But being unhappy with the role of SF does not therefore make you an enthusiastic supporter of the UVF. Consequently power sharing and rotation are the order of the day. Unionists who think they can drag Alliance into a pan-Unionist front are mistaken.
Nationalists are I think well aware that Alliance will not want to be part of a pan-Nationalist front to exclude Unionists. They don’t bother to try it on.
Were PIRA still an active paramilitary organisation in 2002? I’m asking your opinion, not Blairs or Gerrys. Were SF/PIRA still murdering after 2002, smuggling, robbing banks, carrying out punishment beatings etc etc. ?
Simple yes/no answer will do nicely.
Take legal advice on this. Never answer a leading question, of which this is a blatant example. Never answer a complex question with a yes/no answer. Do not sign a contract with an etc in it. Do not give hearsay evidence, particularly about what other people were doing. Immediately object to shackling together of different persons/entities in a communal guilt, as in:-
Was the UUP/DUP/UVF coalition still murdering people etc?
Mrs McGuire spent half her life in jail because she allowed herself to be bullied into answering yes or no when the true answer was “I don’t know.”
Mr Hartley, 62, said he would follow the example of former Sinn Féin Lord Mayor Alex Maskey who had laid a Remembrance Day wreath at the Cenotaph.
“I will be trying to reflect the diverse political cultures here in Belfast… I will want to meet the different communities that exist in Belfast,” he told BBC News on Tuesday.
“We will have to have a discussion about meeting royalty, but where I cannot represent the citizens of Belfast, they will be represented by David Browne.
Mr Browne said: “I will be happy to take up any duties that Tom feels he is unable to attend.”
Mr Hartley is only the second Sinn Fein councillor to become Belfast mayor, following Alex Maskey’s term in 2002.
Well there you have it Mr Browne gets to kow tow to the royals and Mr Hartly gets to kow tow to the rest .
Why all the fuss ?
Darth
I don’t believe they did, on the basis that the IRA were on a recognised ceasefire (and at that point had been pretty well-behaved), while the UVF (in Hughie’s case) was still involved in political murders, as I’m sure the UDA were at the point McCoubrey was elected.
At the time of Maskey’s election it was pretty touch and go for Alliance whether he’d be elected, but the decision was based around things like the SF mandate and the fact that the IRA campaign was largely over and Maskey’s election would help encourage them down the political road.
Oviously it caused a fair bit of pain for the party, particularly for its ‘moderate unionist’ wing. Admittedly, there were the McCartney and Quinn murders and Northern Bank robbery later, but the slaughter that continued within loyalism was much greater.
McCoubrey’s election nomination papers were being signed by someone who would go on to try and kill police; Maskey was on his way to sitting on the Policing Board.
I realise people like yourself may disagree, but – based on the situation at the time and where progress was made since – in hindsight, I’m happy Alliance made the right decision.
paddy reilly,
‘Mrs McGuire spent half her life in jail because she allowed herself to be bullied into answering yes or no when the true answer was “I don’t know.”
The Spanish Inquisition used the fact that people did not eat pork or disliked it as evidence that they were in fact closet ‘jews’ /judaizers’ . So the answer to the question ‘ Do you like pork ‘ better not be ‘I don’t know’ for that answer would have clearly marked one out as a heretic /jew etc .
When the wolf wants to eat the lamb it doesn’t much matter what the lamb answers.
Anybody know how many years it will be before there will be an outright Nationalist majority on the City Council? Are there boundary changes in the pipeline?
Well obviously nobody knows: but there will always be some idiot ready to offer an opinion. In 2005 the Nationalist block got 47,589 votes or 47.7% and the Unionist block 43,198 or 43.3%, with Alliance on 6.8% or 6,808. It wouldn’t take much of a shift to give the Nationalist block an outright majority, given the rapidity with which youthful Nationalists are displacing elderly Unionists in this city. All it would take, imho, would be an election. But don’t worry, the DUP are moving heaven and earth to ensure these are delayed for as long as possible, so there is no immediate chance of:
And there, God love it, before me
The grand City Hall stood in state
With a tricolour flying above it
And two Civic Guards at the gate.