Hartley elected Lord Mayor of Belfast
Tom Hartley of Sinn Fein has been elected the new Lord Mayor of Belfast, replacing Jim Rodgers. The new deputy mayor David Browne of the UUP abstained rather than vote for the DUP’s Diane Dodds citing “personality reasons.” He also pointed out that since Hartley received two more votes than Diane Dodds, his voting for her would not have made any difference. Mrs. Dodds has accused him of “opportunism.”
Unionist unity seems unlikely and even cooperation some way off.
Incidentally did Alliance vote for Hartley?
I cannot see what the fuss is all about. Why Diane Dodds is getting her panties in a twist? Tom Hartley is but the latest in a line of unionist first citizens. Eagerly awaiting the arrival of Butcher Bush – he will grovel just like the rest of his careerist colleagues and makes the position of Walkerite ‘Gas & water’ socialists appear revolutionary!
As far as I can judge, I get the impression that Tom Hartley loves the City of Belfast, he knows all its nooks and crannies and its history.
Whilst it is not a powerful position, unlike London’s mayor, it is mainly ceremonial and as such I cannot think of a better representative than Tom. As to the smears he has faced in recent years, unless someone knows otherwise and publishes what they know in a reputable source, they remain just that smears, and are of no importance.
‘What put the kibosh on the deal was the failure of the leader of the Ulster Unionist party to be in attendance ‘
Where was he ? Does he have to give a reason for his absense or does Mr Browne get to be Lord Mayor next year ? SF share power with the DUP at Stormont so why not with the UUP on Belfast City Council?
Sounds like politics to me . Nasty business of course – but as an ex FF TD said to me one time when I made a general accusation that politicians were wankers of the first degree !
‘That may well be ‘ came the reply but they are ‘necessary ‘ wankers for without them society could not function except through the barrel of a gun .
He had a point then and still has .
When the wolf wants to eat the lamb it doesn’t much matter what the lamb answers.
This much is true, o Green. But I think the Spanish Inquisition has been given a bad press: when young I tended to think they were unremittingly wicked but since we have come to experience the negative effects of having a Muslim minority I am at least beginning to see where they were coming from. Islam is an organisation which encourages its adherents to seize power, whether they are in a majority or not. They do not always make convincing lambs.
The defence may not convince the wolf, but to some extent it does give the lamb a chance to appeal to posterity. If you’re interested in that sort of thing. As you are an Atheist I don’t suppose it matters to you. Socrates, Jesus and Campion managed to put their soundbyte opportunity to good use.
The correct answer to the Inquistion is, I really hate the taste of pork, but if you wish I will chew some to prove to you that I am a good Christian.
PaddyReilly,
thanks for that – so from now on unless there is better relations between the quarefellahs in the current warring camps it will be a green mayor every time.
You’ve rumbled me very aptly and poetically there.
“If Alliance are carefully coordinating turns on the the merry-go-round, in their ill-conceived and naive notion of political fairness, perhaps they should consider how many old, white men they’ve helped hang the chain on each year. ”
Last year SF put forward Tierna Cunningham, but she failed to take the mayoralship when the SDLP voted for the UUP’s Jim Rogers in return for their support for an SDLP deputy mayor.
Anyone know why SF changed their candidate this year? They kept doggedly putting Maskey forward for years until he eventually took the post.
So now he can finally go to Poppy Day celebrations without getting slagged off by the boys in boiler suits, not like in the bad old days when he was made to by Gerry and the Peacemakers. Good thing the Catholics are getting their own aristocracy now.
PaddyReilly wrote:
“I think the Spanish Inquisition has been given a bad press: when young I tended to think they were unremittingly wicked but since we have come to experience the negative effects of having a Muslim minority I am at least beginning to see where they were coming from. Islam is an organisation which encourages its adherents to seize power, whether they are in a majority or not.”
and earlier…
“Does anyone else think Immediately object to shackling together of different persons/entities in a communal guilt, as in:-
Was the UUP/DUP/UVF coalition still murdering people etc? ”
Paddy ffs get a grip; the death toll in Iraq could well be over a million since 2003, and four million are refugees. See the point?
PS I often enjoy reading Slugger, including your posts, but you just can’t say that because they’re Muslims.
Tom Hartley was reaching across the divide – and paying for it in spades – for a long time. He went to Islandbridge for the World War 1 commemoration ceremony when it was neither popular or profitable to do so and it may well have cost him a berth on the SF ticket in West Belfast for the Assembly Elections.
His cemetery tours are the embodiment of that true republican spirit – celebrating all traditions equally. I have every confidence that he will be a great mayor of Belfast – unlike the unionist jobsworths that he succeeds who were not seen in the nationalist parts of town after their election.
Paddy ffs get a grip; the death toll in Iraq could well be over a million since 2003, and four million are refugees.
Maybe: but how much of this was caused by the Englezes/ Americanos and how much by the natives? I think the message that I’m trying to put across is that Muslims and other folk, like oil and water, don’t mix well. Islam contains within it a belief that you have a right and duty to seize power, whether you are a majority or a minority, because you have a mandate from God to do so in order to impose his law. It’s not a matter of imposing collective guilt: this doctrine is there and it will always re-emerge when there is sufficient manpower to implement it. Neither does it matter that 99 Muslims out of 100 are not interested: the one who is can, with modern technology, do sufficient damage.
The Inquistion were working in an era before phone taps, CCTV, even before there were any police, and so the measures they had to take were all the more extreme.
Consequently it is better for all concerned if unconverted Muslims are confined to Muslim countries, by and large: exceptions can be made for Baha’is, Ismaelis etc.
Concubhar O Liatháin
Tombo does sound like he will make a good mayor – BUT – and I’m sure this has been mentioned many times the (black) comic posssiblities of someone connected to an organistion, one of whose main objectives was to kill people ( whether justified or not ) having a vested interest in their being a brisk trade in the cemetries are surely endless.
Did Alliance support Qughie Smyth for lord mayor or McCoubrey for deppity? If they didn’t- as I seem to recall-why not? Surely if Maskey /Hartley are fit for office then so were the two loyalists?
Others have largely dealt with this point. In 2002 the IRA were still a paramilitary organisation with a low-level of activity, but in the process of ceasing activity, (which, despite McCartney and the Northern Bank, is a process that has essentially been completed). While the UVF and, especially UDA, were still tearing the arse out of the peace process, largely by shooting one another and intimidating other Prods. In that context, the judgement call to support Maskey but not McCoubrey or Smyth was the right one.
At present, I would have no trouble supporting the PUP for either of the top posts but would still have a little trouble with McCoubrey.
The same goes for the wonderfully pornographically named Dick Swett’s point. Of course the IRA were still a paramilitary organisation in 2002, but were travelling down a road of ceasing to be one. So are the UVF today. If you want a party who will hang all terrorists, UVF and IRA alike, I suggest you go and form your own party, as all the Unionist parties, TUV included have large memberships with deep loyalist links.
PaddyReilly, thanks for the honest answer. I’m just going to strongly disagree with you and leave it there, as I feel like I’ve butted in on another conversation.
regards
MickD,
I recall reading about two neighbouring countries in the Middle Ages, one of which was Georgia, the other a Muslim country. It was understood that if you got into trouble in your own country you could gain asylum in the neighbouring one, provided you converted to the appropriate religion. Loads did.
This sensible system has been maintained in most Islamic countries to this day: from Pakistan to Morocco it always the case that kuffar minorites are diminishing, under pressure to convert or leave. Unfortunately, the UK and other European countries think that they have moved on into a post-religious age, and consquently allowed a Muslim minority to built up to the point where it constitutes a threat.
Of course, if your nearest and dearest is a Muslim, I quite understand that you may not think so: but if your nearest and dearest was killed by a suicide bomber you will do.
As to inconsistencies in my statements, I do not see them as being there. I would strongly discourage anyone who wanted to bomb the Falls/Shankill on the grounds of collective guilt. Equally, I would discourage the same person from walking down either road wearing the wrong football shirt, or campaigning for the wrong party. A people who are not collectively guilty may, because of the “It only takes one in a hundred” rule, be collectively dangerous.
Grannie Trixie
“Also,Dewi: on what basis do you claim that Hartley is “hardly a combatant”? He is a member of SF, has been in jail and if at last he has seen the light we should be grateful?”
Didn’t realise he’d been a prisoner – when and for what do you know?
Tombo does sound like he will make a good mayor – BUT – and I’m sure this has been mentioned many times the (black) comic posssiblities of someone connected to an organistion, one of whose main objectives was to kill people ( whether justified or not ) having a vested interest in their being a brisk trade in the cemetries are surely endless.
Indeed Sammy. However it’s worth pointing out that among the graves featured in the Mayor’s tour is that of the Cunningham family, founders of the Unionist party and, also, acclaimed as the financiers of the Larne Gunrunning episode. So perhaps there’s more than one organisation with a trace of death on its hands….
Tom Hartley’s graveyard tours are beyond and above petty ‘provincial’ politics. They are a genuine highlight in any trip to Belfast and far better than anything on offer in terms of guided tours by whatever organistion it is that promotes the city….
Dewi,
“for what”
New additions for the cemetry tours perhaps?
http://www.xanga.com/wildirish24/420216709/item.html
That article implies no criminal convictions.
Concubhar O Liatháin,
‘ His cemetery tours are the embodiment of that true republican spirit – celebrating all traditions equally.’
Aye there is that
I personally prefer life to death but then I’m not going anywhere when the game’s up unlike all the saints and sinners in the graveyard . Whats that they say about politicians being ready to lay down your life for their country ?
‘I have every confidence that he will be a great mayor of Belfast – unlike the unionist jobsworths that he succeeds who were not seen in the nationalist parts of town after their election.’
Perhaps -he’s certainly no worse than what came before and probably better than most .
From now on it will be a green mayor every time.
No, SF and the SDLP are committed to rotation of office. Are there any recorded instances of UUP/DUP refusing this? Possibly Derry, but it didn’t last. But it will be a Green sponsored mayor. But ‘from now on’ does not mean from now on, it means from some indeterminate time in the future, 2011 if we’re lucky.
Jeez, you guys like a row. It’s only the Mayor of Belfast. What power does that position hold? Not much, if any.
True, the amount of strife created in any organisation is often inversely proportionate to that organisation’s significance, but you have to start somewhere. If you don’t put your all into your candidacy for IIIB’s mock election, they you won’t show sufficient enthusiasm to get onto Ballysloshamuckery’s parish council, let alone higher office.
So it’s all symbolic, but the symbolism of a SF Mayor of Belfast is not good. For Unionists. It marks a significant milestone in the transition from a system where the opinions of Nationalists are of no import or consequence, to one where those of Unionists are of no import or consequence.
paddyreilly,
‘The correct answer to the Inquistion is, I really hate the taste of pork, but if you wish I will chew some to prove to you that I am a good Christian.’
That answer might not be enough to save your bacon pr
Your answer would be interpreted by the Inquisition wolves as ‘ this bastard’s too clever by half -he just wants to avoid torture and is thus telling a lie and we all know that you can’t trust a jew anyway and they would sell their mother’s bodies for a few shekells ‘
Let’s put him to the question and he’ll confess he’s a jew and bobs your uncle case closed
‘As you are an Atheist I don’t suppose it matters to you.’
On the contrary it matters . I fear all unreason based on religion and particularly priests/ministers / rabbis/ shamen /astrologers/ imams etc etc having any more political power than any private citizen . The denomination only matters in regard to the fact that the Islamic ‘Jihadists’ are were Christians were several centuries ago . Do remember that 7 million Germans were killed in 16th and 17th centuries war between Reformists and Catholics in that country . France also suffered from internal religious wars .
Nowadays most Germans and French don’t get out of bed on a Sunday to go to any church . Islamic fundamentalist extremism has been compounded and made worse by western political interference in those countries .
Someone earlier was talking about ‘families not being good for politics’, in relation to Diane Dodds. I’m inclined to agree. She doesn’t seem the brightest of the DUP crop. But if you want families in Northern Ireland politics, look no further than the Maskey family, who seem to have minions spread over Belfast: at least three individual councillors, not to mention all those from this clan involved in the McCartney murder smear/cover up. Why do people complain when Paisleys and Dodds have their families involved, but not Maskeys?
Democracy, fairness, nepotism, Republican? Not really.
The old adage about pinning a tricolour/any given flag to a donkey and the same people voting in large numbers for it – minus brains – comes to mind.
paddy reilly,
‘Consequently it is better for all concerned if unconverted Muslims are confined to Muslim countries, by and large ,
Too late paddy
Now that Paisley has gone the blue skies of Ulster will have to be replaced .News just in could be just what the doctor (no pun) ordered
‘NORTHERN IRELAND WEATHER HAS BEEN OFFICIALLY DECLARED MUSLIM’
Partly Sunni, but mostly Sh’ite
paddy reilly,
‘Consequently it is better for all concerned if unconverted Muslims are confined to Muslim countries, by and large ,
Too late paddy
Now that Paisley has gone the blue skies of Ulster will have to be replaced .News just in could be just what the doctor (no pun) ordered
‘NORTHERN IRELAND WEATHER HAS BEEN OFFICIALLY DECLARED MUSLIM’
Partly Sunni, but mostly Sh’ite
paddy reilly,
‘Consequently it is better for all concerned if unconverted Muslims are confined to Muslim countries, by and large ,
Too late paddy
Now that Paisley has gone the blue skies of Ulster will have to be replaced by new weather .News just in could be just what the doctor (no pun) ordered
‘NORTHERN IRELAND WEATHER OFFICIALLY DECLARED MUSLIM’
outlook – Partly Sunni, but mostly Sh’ite
Moderator ,
Please delete nos 23 and 24 above .
Reason triplication and keyboard is shite
Greenflag – you are have a nerve issue in your left hand. It’s related to a childhood incident – to achieve harmony you need to did deep….
dig deep – I have a nerve issue also
Correct Dewi. Greenflag, you need to repartition your brain.
Dewi: Perhaps I ought to have been more careful re identifying TH as having been in jail – I thought it was common knowledge and an element of his identity. I was basing it on remembering someone who used to visit him in jail in the late 70s or early 80s – now when I reflect further, I’m wondering if he was interned or perhaps ‘lifted’ for weeks or days and either not charged or on remand?
As I am not sure and because on reflection it seems to matter,I regret mentioning what may be factually inaccurate. Would be happy if someone is able to clarify or correct these facts.
Grannietrixie, Dewi,
anyone in Sinn Fein during the ‘war’ presumably worked to support the twin strategy of ballot box and armelite – whether someone actually went to jail or not is presumably irrelavant to most unionists as they were actively supporting ‘terrorism’ – as they see it. To most nationalists, given that they voted for SF, a line was drawn under these issues with GFA and therfore should not be used against someone now but to some/many previous involvement in the struggle is actually a big plus.
Sammy – wasn’t going to use against or in favour of anything – was just surprised. (You are digging huge holes with your Rugby comments – I won’t quote them back to you …honest !)
Funny from Irish Times
I quote:
“Mr Hartley added: “It will be my aim as Lord Mayor to help develop our city’s political culture, away from a legacy of division towards civic and cultural diversity — to turn what divides us into a diversity that enriches our city and the livers of its citizens..” ”
Spot the deliberate mistake!
Always remember to preview Sorry.
IWSMTDI
“Anybody know how many years it will be before there will be an outright Nationalist majority on the City Council? Are there boundary changes in the pipeline?”
If there where boundary changes perhaps they should include the half of East Belfast which is now in Castlereagh council.
It seems to me preposterous that if you live on the upper Cregah Road you are Castlreagh but if you live in Poleglass you´re Belfast. Belfast council includes all of West and North Belfast, but parts of South and East are elsewhere.
The new super council proposals should have almalgamated Castlreagh and Belfast councils. The current boundaries of Belfast council heavily favour the Nationalist electorate.
Paddy Reilly
Stop your day dreaming and get back to work.
Dewi ,
‘
‘you have a nerve issue in your left hand ‘
Nerves ? What are they ?
‘ and the livers of its citizens.’
The answer to the question ‘is life worth living ?’
It all depends on the liver
paddyreilly,
References to my brain are not cricket whereas references to your own would by necessity have to be below the belt and therefore I will make no further comment re this matter
I do hope Mr Hartley has been putting in some practice for his ‘Jumping over human Tomato’ attempt. Which i think should be an anuual event.
*annual*
For the record: Turns out my impression that TH had been in jail in the 70s was correct – see Jim Gibney in his over the top eulogy in today’s Irish News.
Granni – got a link ? If not when and what for?
The new super council proposals should have almalgamated Castlreagh and Belfast councils. The current boundaries of Belfast council heavily favour the Nationalist electorate.
Oh dear how dreadful. The Ministry of Gerrymandering should be given a severe rap over the knuckles. But could I interest you in a new Belfast which corresponds exactly to the 4 Belfast constituencies? These, as you may have noticed, return 12 Nationalist, 2 Alliance, 1 Loyalist and 9 Unionist MLAs, a very auspicious distribution, and one which one hopes proximately to see reproduced in the smaller Council area.
PaddyReilly,
are there proposd boundary changes in the pipeline or does it yet have to be decided upon?
For constituencies yes. For Local Government Councils, it appears to have been decreed that there could be no boundary changes, except where two (or more) councils were amalgamated. The reason for this would be the disruption caused if existing boundaries were moved.
As Dr Who correctly states, it was not proposed to amalgamate Belfast and Castlereagh. One reason for this is that Belfast is already so large and populous, to increase its size any further really detracts from the idea of ‘local government’.
PaddyReilly
you are wrong about the new council boundaries as the Bill provides for a Commissioner to name the new councils and determine their limits. Any potential changes are limited with up to five wards being capable to being added or removed from the 11 areas made up from amalgamations.
You are also wrong about why Belfast is to be confined within illogical but Nationalist friendly borders.