Moane’s Cross and the end of history
We quite frequently drive along the mountain road between Fivemiletown and Rosslea. Last time we were along that road a car was stopped beside the memorial at Moane’s Cross to two IRA men: Feargal O’Hanlon and Sean South, who died after an attack on Brookeborough RUC station on the 1st January 1957. An elderly couple seemed to be laying flowers at the place. I wondered if they were friends or relatives of those who had died there all those years ago in the IRA border campaign.Mary McAleese has suggested that the end of Ireland’s centuries long political conflict is at hand. This in many ways echoes comments by Bertie Ahern whilst he was in Washington. Of course these sentiments are not confined to RoI politicians or to nationalists and also seem to have some echoes in Dr. Paisley’s latest remarks. I do feel, however, that this is a very difficult conclusion to draw when one considers the history of this island and indeed the history of other conflicts in the world.
The conflicts here have been “solved” with tedious frequency. Ireland has been “pacified” whether by force or by politics on many occasions. By turns Elizabeth I, James I/VI, Cromwell and Gladstone used “pacification” of various forms and the list of rebellions includes so many dates: 1641, 1798, 1916 etc. I would suggest that the nature of our conflict here is somewhat similar to ethnic conflicts, although as with many so called ethnic conflicts, there are no actual ethnic differences, merely cultural ones. The problem is with totally differing political aspirations and that is unlikely to change any time soon.
Looking to other places in the world there are frequent examples of conflicts supposedly solved years ago, which recurred. How many expected the orgy of violence visited on the Balkans? Remember also that the Balkan conflict was “solved” by the creation of Yugoslavia after it had helped precipitate the First World War (of course the above is utterly simplified but there is some truth therein). The horrors of Rwanda were unexpected but had causes and (much milder) precedents in the history of that region.
So maybe we have some form of permanent peace and all subsequent quarrels about Northern Ireland will be solved peacefully. However, this sounds a little like the pronouncement of “The End of History” after the end of the Cold War.
Whilst I agree with Mick that at the moment there (thankfully) seems little likelihood that the dissident terrorists will manage to return us to major violence; I am brought back to that elderly couple at Moane’s Cross with whom I started. I sometimes wonder if the terrorist attacks we are seeing now are a little like the IRA border campaign. At the time I am sure the RUC and the government in Stormont were delighted with how relatively easily they defeated that campaign. Little did they know that massively more violence (initiated let us remember by loyalists) was then less than a decade away.
Turgon,
I think you’re too pessimistic. This conflict ended in agreement by the majority of both sides, even though pushed somewhat by outsiders. There is no way the dissidents (violent ones) are going to take us backward.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dIb_GgBWTXk
Love the song whatever the politics.
That was a pretty dour post Turgon. You’d almost think you want to return to violence!
The current conflict was the first in Ireland to be effectively settled by referendum via the GFA. Previously all other conflicts were settled by civil war, invasion, subjection, plantation or by some foreign accord between controlling parties. And that is what will eventually extinguish the current dissident activity.
The only return to violence I can for see is if the current stakeholders in NI are not accomidated adequately in a reunified Ireland.
(Turgon) “I sometimes wonder if the terrorist attacks we are seeing now are a little like the IRA border campaign. At the time I am sure the RUC and the government in Stormont were delighted with how relatively easily they defeated that campaign. Little did they know that massively more violence (initiated let us remember by loyalists) was then less than a decade away.”
Or, likely, how that violence could have been prevented with an ounce of foresight or common sense by the government in Stormont.
Be that as it may, the conditions which led to that massive surge of violence simply no longer exist and I cannot see how they possibly could ten years hence.
god…if there isnt that “stakeholders” word again!
“I would suggest that the nature of our conflict here is somewhat similar to ethnic conflicts, although as with many so called ethnic conflicts, there are no actual ethnic differences, merely cultural ones.” – Turgon
The thing to keep in mind is that the overwhelming majority of the members of either ‘cultural’ groups in Northern Ireland did not engage is any actual conflict with each other.
The violence, such that it was, originated from, and controlled by, a small number of highly organised murder gangs who had their own agendas for orchestrating that violence, not least of which was the cover that ‘the cause’ provided them with to engage in massive criminality, e.g. bank robberies, protection rackets, kidnapping, counterfeiting, smuggling, etc. Those gangsters made hundreds of millions via their activities.
It was a ‘civil’ strife wherein the only engagement by the citizens was as targets for the murder gangs. So, the question of whether or not the violence that Northern Ireland experienced can return is actually a question of whether or not a murder gang can be successfully organised again. Given that the last crop of murder gangs quit to enjoy the fruits of their financial investments in their old age before advances by the Intelligence Services wiped them out, I’d say that it would be very difficult for any new gang to emerge and carry on where the other gangs left off.
After all, unlike the 70s, if I want to know what is in somebody’s back yard, I can pop over too Google Earth and count the rose trees on satellite.
The British Army garrison here could deal with any problems easily. And now that Sinn Fein support the 5000 British Army garrison here, there should be no problems.
Brilliant the way SF has embraced the British military here. Only a matter of weeks before Martin salutes this country’s flag at Thiepval or Ballykinler etc.
Sinn Fein- Keeping Ulster British.
Ian will go to his destiny a happy man.
Gerry and Martin may have some doubts, but the MI5 money will assuage thaem.
“Love the song whatever the politics.”
Great song indeed Dewi (although watching Wolfe Tones’ concerts always makes my blood run a little colder), it’s just a pity about the comical farce that inspired it.
How does a truck load of fourteen well armed men with two bombs mounting a surprise attack on a sleepy village police station get mauled by a police sergeant and two part time constables armed with WWII vintage Lee Enfields and sten guns?
Ah well, Sean South made for a great song if a piss-poor guerilla leader, altogether now…
“It was on a dreary New Year’s Day as shades of night drew down, yeeeehaaar!”
Here’s a better one Harry – wonderful
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OqBDKnhLrfk
Dewi – “[Wolfe Tones - Sean South] Love the song whatever the politics.”
“They were fighting for old Ireland”
“They have gone to join that gallant band …”
“A martyr for old Ireland”
So you would love the same tune even if it was about a gang attacking the police in the RoI with the intention to murder them?
P&J;- it’s history – really catchy tune.
Dewi – “Here’s a better one .. wonderful [band singing Sean South in the Heineken tent in Lansdowne Road"]
Do you think Heineken would approve of a band singing a song in support of Sinn Fein PIRA terrorists trying to murder policemen in recent history? And is it acceptable to sing such songs at Landsdown Road? It would be like saying that the singing of UVF songs by a band in Windsor park was wonderful. Would you be happy with that?
Dewi – “it’s history – really catchy tune.”
Approx 50 years ago as opposed to approx 40 years ago for the start of the main ‘Troubles’. I await with interest your comments ref Windsor Park.
I sometimes wonder if the terrorist attacks we are seeing now are a little like the IRA border campaign.
But the Northern Ireland state we live in now has no resemblance to the Northern Ireland state that existed in 1957.
In 1957 my father was two and my mother was one. A looooooong time ago.
The war is over, the rationales that sustained it have lost relevance. That doesn’t mean we’re going to skip into the sunset, hand in hand, as a light sou’easter provides a warm breeze.
But the War is over.
The war was over in 1922. The murder gangs are still in operation, albeit in a much diminished capacity. It’s true that the social conditions from which those gangs emerged in Northern Ireland have changed, but it isn’t true that similar murder gangs cannot emerge from different conditions or that those conditions cannot be engineered. A murder gang, contrary to misconception, doesn’t require popular support. Large criminal gangs still operate successfully all over the world despite have ever-widening legal powers aligned against them and progress in intelligence-gathering technologies, etc, but the Provos were so infiltrated by British Intelligence by the mid-80s that they were out of the game. As the example of the Real IRA shows, the only ‘Provos’ who are keen to join other murder gangs are British agents. I think the ‘volunteers’ who actually believed what the IRA godfathers told them now realise that they wasted their lives for no purpose other than to provide hidden bank accounts for Her Majesty’s ministers. Knowing how pointless and unjust it all was must serve as a powerful disincentive to others.
“The only return to violence I can for see is if the current stakeholders in NI are not accomidated adequately in a reunified Ireland.”
Dream on. First the agreement is that there wont be a united Ireland without consent. Second, there is no sign whatsoevr that consent is at all likely.
Replace ‘a reunified Ireland’ by ‘Northern Ireland’ and I might agree
ryan crozier wont be tapping his feet to the melody anyway. onwards to victory!!!
“The thing to keep in mind is that the overwhelming majority of the members of either ‘cultural’ groups in Northern Ireland did not engage is any actual conflict with each other.”
Except when, for example, voting for a nationalist party or a unionist party in preference to the other.
“How does a truck load of fourteen well armed men with two bombs mounting a surprise attack on a sleepy village police station get mauled by a police sergeant and two part time constables armed with WWII vintage Lee Enfields and sten guns?”
Well, that tactic had worked well at other border stations. They has armoured the sides of the lorry and just driven up and blasted away, so I presume they used that approach again.
But there was now a difference. The peelers had noted how they operated. Brookborough was a two storied station. The Police had a plan were well organised and got to the upper windows where they could fire down into the lorry. End of argument – and of Sean South. It was a compleletely stupid and shambolic attack…. but hey they got a song out of it.
By the way, why is it that the Irish tradition is so focused on ballads celebrating murderers? Try to kill other Irishmen and we’ll give you a song. Blow up women and kill children – brave lads you are! Celebrating self sacrifice in the interest of your fellow man is one thing – and something the Irish have done a lot of but we dont really seem to value it as much as kiling.
A lot of this nonesense is something else. As an Irishman I find it embarassing… akin to headhunters sticking the heads of their enemies on poles around the village to demonstrate how hard they are
“ryan crozier wont be tapping his feet to the melody anyway. onwards to victory!!!
Posted by ohyeah!!!!!!!! on May 17, 2008 @ 08:25 AM”
Oh yeah, I think you’ll find he will, once he makes his scheduled full recovery. I would be careful what I post in open forums like this if I were you, you never know who is watching…
Sammy, your naivity is touching.
If you read A T Q Stewart’s “The Narrow Ground” you’d begin to ask what precautionary strategies are in place to see us safely through 2016. They certainly weren’t in place in the lead up to 1966.
“By the way, why is it that the Irish tradition is so focused on ballads celebrating murderers”
Not true. The ballads that come to my mind are
rare old mountain dew
dirty old town
field of athenry
finnegan’s wake
rocky road to dublin
danny boy
thre is an isle (best tune of them all, and quite patriotic, conntender for anthem at rugby internationals i think)
she moved through the fair
i think its a case of you seeing what you want to see!
Posted by Dewi on May 17, 2008 @ 01:51 AM
Truly, I regret clicking on that link. I havent had 12 pints. Is there a possible geometric link between pints consumed 24 hours before each murder in the troubles? I am mindful of what Gusty et all did before murdering.
Mind u, according to some histories, what they did was inevitable given all that 1966, fifty years stuff and all that.
There are some wankers about.
To my mind the finest Irish rebel song is Slievenamon, written by Charles Kickham, and is essentially a love song which makes only a fleeting reference to the nationalist cause in the lines:
O my love, O my love will I ne’er see you more
And my land wil you never uprise?
and in the finale:
O, to see our flag unrolled
And my true love to enfold
In the valley near Slievenamon
Here’s a fine big cointry lass with her version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egYkdhKZmzU&feature=related
In a tribute to the affection with which the song was held Slievenamon was the name given to the Lancia armoured car bequeathed to the Free State forces by the British and the car in which Michael Collins was travelling when he died in an engagement with Republican troops at Béal na mBlath. The driver, a Scotsman of Irish descent, Joe McPeake, later deserted to the Republican side taking the Lancia with him but it was later recaptured although, as I recall, McPeake escaped home unharmed to Scotland.
An interesting bit of history, ty, Rory. I wept at the end of *Michael Collins* inevitable tho the ending was.
I thought the actor paying De Valera did it to a T. Or is that a *D*?
What an eternal pity Collins didnt live as long as that “oul hoor”. God has and will judge.
The stature of Liam Neeson.. awesome.
Recall Oscar Schindler
Has he turned down playing Ian Paisely?
Dream on. First the agreement is that there wont be a united Ireland without consent. Second, there is no sign whatsoevr that consent is at all likely.
Replace ‘a reunified Ireland’ by ‘Northern Ireland’ and I might agree
Posted by cynic on May 17, 2008 @ 08:12 AM
The largest aspect of “adequately accommodated” would be consent, if only you weren’t so cynical cynic.
Jo,
That was Alan Rickman who played DeValera and I agree with you that he got him just right. I was at a London screening of the film at the Screen on the Green which was afterwards addressed by the producer Mike Wooley, followed by a q&a;session. One bright young thing asked why Alan Rickman played Dev with such a funny posh high pitched accent. I was able to tell her that it was probably because he had done his research well as that was just how Dev spoke and I had listened to him as a boy.
Gery Lawless used to tell the story of how, when he was a mere lad, he accompanied his grandmother a Fianna Fail stalwart to a meeting with Dev at the presedential residence. As they entered his room the great man was just rising from the turf fire which he appeared to be in the process of setting and made a show of brushing his hands as he came forward to greet them. Afterwards Gery marvelled to his granny at the humility of the President of Ireland bending down to kindle his own turf fire.
“Arra, wisht”, said granny,”Did ye not notice the place is centrally heated. That was all for show so we would spread the legend of his humility”.
But the best Dev story is of how during the Truce he and Harry Boland (played by Aidan Quinn in the movie as Collins’ best friend later shot in the river when he takes the Republican side)had both been out to buy bread on a Saturday night – which was really a pretext for their long suffering spouses to cover up that were off scheming again rather than pay their wives the courtesy of some time alone.
Anyway they are standing on the corner, loaves under their arms gabbing and scheming, and, as a body will, each began picking at the loaf under his arm until there was a great hole in each which they only noticed when it came time to part.
“Holy Mother”, says Boland, “the missus’ll kill me. What will I tell her now?”
“She has a soft spot for me, Harry, “says Dev,” tell her that it was me that picked at the loaf and she’ll be forgiving”.
“Right – oh, God no! I can’t. That would be a lie and I’ve just been to confession and need to take communion in the morning”.
Dev had a think for a moment and then simply took Boland’s loaf from under his arm and replaced it with his own.
“Now tell her”, says Dev and sauntered off.
I can somewhat sympathise with the English who got a wee bit pissed off with the characterisation of their race in Hollywood in the 1990′s, where every villain had to speak with a toffee nosed English accent and the only true heroes were Irish.
Even Ben Elton satirised it in one of his skits where he had Lord Toff calling to his chum on the Titanic “Come on Lord Bastard throw another Irish baby on the barbeque”.
Just for the record Eamon De Valera was an Irishman, a Republican patriot who fought bravely for his country, he was not some sort of Rickmanesque “Die Hard” mitteleropa villain who was up against Bruce Willis’ noble Michael Collins. If ye want your villains decided by Hollywood at least have the decency to accept that they were actually Irish (if a little hispanic) and don’t try to change them into Englishmen.
Forgive me but I’m of the old fashioned school, my Irish rebel ballads of choice are ‘Boulevogue’ and ‘The West’s Awake’.
Just a number of points to consider, Harry. Dev did speak with a fussy precision which Rickman captured quite well. It was Irishman Liam Neeson who played Collins and the film was written and directed by the Irish director, Neill Jordan.
For sure the movie can be seen as a revisionist hagiography of Collins and a demonisation of Dev as the Daddy of all the Cute Hoors. But this view and the contrary one have been endlessly disputed and counter-disputed over the decades and no doubt will continue to be. Best to lie back and enjoy the movie.
….or you might soon wish to view a cinematic take on a more recent period of Irish history:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/1956102/Bobby-Sands-film-risks-Cannes-controversy.html
Further to Harry’s question, the reason the attack on the station where South was killed went so badly was because the lorry was parked on the wrong side of the road, enabling a hail of death to pour without accurate return fire.
Dewi is very quiet today. That girl from the Ardoyne must be controlling the sheep in the Welsh valleys!
Oh Come on ! it’s a great song ! – I promise to review any Loyalist songs with an entirely indifferent attitude.
Dewi,
It may amaze you (and others) to know that I have a mild interest in Irish traditional music (though I am more into classical).
There are many very good Irish songs with good tunes without getting excited about that reasonably good tune about an incompetent revolutionary / terrorist who managed to get himself and one of his comrades killed in an utterly daft attack on a sleepy village police station. One might just as well celebrate an attack on say Betws-y-coed police station (now a B+B).
I do not approve of celebrating anyone’s death but the only people who seem to merit approval in that daft raid were the 3 policemen who fought off the attack.
It was a daft raid but it is a wonderful song sorry. Have you got any great Unionist songs ?
It also saddens me that although Moane’s Cross was nice in the spring sunshine last time I was past, I am sure it was a dreadful place to leave dead or dying men on New Year’s Day.
If those people laying flowers were relatives: remember that Messers. O’Hanlon and South might still be alive today had they not embarked on that attack. Had they succeeded what would that have achieved other than for some other people to lay flowers at a cemetery somewhere in Fermanagh.
Remember (by a Welshman) The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori.
OK Turgon – and touche – but fighting for freedom – and you must admit in 1959 NI a terrible place.
Okay Dewi, I have been fighting with YouTube to get good unionist songs. Here are some I like (I suspect Darth might be your best bet for good unionist songs).
There are the ones everyone knows such as The Sash and Derry’s Walls. My favourites, however are Orange and Blue and especially The Blackman’s Dream.
Thanks Turgon – watched them all and with all due respect – not much fun… the Irish have got all the best tunes !!!
“Further to Harry’s question, the reason the attack on the station where South was killed went so badly was because the lorry was parked on the wrong side of the road, enabling a hail of death to pour without accurate return fire. ”
So the RUC introduced the first fixed penalties for parking offences too….
To Dewi – Did the Ardoyne girl wake up the sheep?! Now you’re awake, I’ll repeat the question that you’ve so far failed to answer: Would you be happy with a band singing UVF songs in Windsor Park?
Without having watched Turgon’s You Tube links (broadband packed up and I’m on a snail like dial up) I have to say his choice of good Orange songs is pretty much the ones I’d have chosen (except for the Blackman’s Dream, never heard of that one) but what about The Orange Lilly and my absolute favourite (and favourite of my Republican Granny) The Oul’ Orange Flute?
By the way Dewi can I bother you again to tell me how to link? The information I’ve got below tells me to use an “i” umlaut followed by an upside down question mark then a 1/2 fraction, I’m fairly certain that’s not right, this time I will write it down and keep it safe.
Oh and how could I forget the song so good the BBC World Service pinched it, Lilibullero?
Dewi, Dewi, Dewi.
Don’t let yoursel be barracked into apologising for anything at all. These volunteers are worth remembering, they were fighting and dying for a worthy cause not an apartheid Unionist hegemony.
I’d learnt Sean South long before I was out of primary school, Irish soldier laddie and the broad black brimmer etc.. And my party piece;
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ylrodyILCj0&feature=related
And one I never tire listening to;
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ieNwb07tgG8&feature=related
Every night is a rebel night here in Glasgow Dewi, the new home of Irish Republican music. the party on the Gallowgate on friday will be unmissable after we win the league on thursday night.
Harry – >a href=”http://sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments/moane-cross-and-the-end-of-history/P25/”>Like that With the first > the other way round. P&J;it depends on the song I suppose.
That Blackman’s Dream grows on u a bit – Pyramids and Toads – reminds me a bit of early Pink Floyd.
Tony – “No Pasaran!” – excellent.
Thanks Dewi, this is how the instructions look on my screen:-
[i][a href=�http://URL]name[/a] then change the [] brackets to <>[/i]
Strange isn’t it?