OVER at Jewcy, Mr Eugenides ponders over how different cultures often look at the past through rose-tinted glasses, without much regard to how others view celebrations of the past. And while he isn’t exactly wearing a sash, could McCain’s ‘No Surrender’ bus really alienate enough Irish-American voters to make a difference? Or is pushing the Scots-Irish button going to attract votes in the states he needs? Hat-tip to Unionist Lite.
The words of Brian O’Nolan, variously Brian Ó Nualláin, Myles na gCopaleen, Myles na Gopaleen and, of course, Flann O’Brien. That O’Nolan was referencing his own dissolute student days at UCD only mildly distracts from the prophetic undertone of his words: I paid no attention whatsoever to books or study and regarded lectures as a [...] read our review »
Not according to metallurgists Tim Foecke and Jennifer Hooper McCarty whose research has suggested that dodgy Harland and Wolff rivets were at fault for allowing the Titanic’s hull to be ripped apart by the pressure of the iceberg impact. With six of the hull’s chambers exposed to the Atlantic waters, the “unsinkable” ship lasted less [...] read our review »
The problem with John McCain in particular, and Americans in general is that they have generally succeeded in their wars with relatively little difficulty, thought, and remembrance, and, consequently, think – unlike all other people – that it is the first thing to use in any dispute rather than the means of last resort.
Consequently, they have quickly gotten themselves after the end of the Cold War and the 9/11 cockup involved in wars without any likely acceptable conclusion in Iraq, Afghanistan, and most likely soon in Iran because that’s the only way they really act.
After thirty or forty more years of their wanton destruction, they will decide that they have had enough, and join the world’s others, the so-called cowards, traitors, etc., in more peaceful pursuits.
Little wonder that moron McCain’s rallying call is “No Surrender”, as if all the so-called islamofascists were at Washington’s gates.
bfb ,
‘The black population back then had hopes’
Indeed . Many in the South even had hopes of being allowed to vote , use a public washroom and sit on the same seat as a white person in a bus.
‘and many good, family structured, environments.’
True .’
‘The nanny staters have destoyed the black communities in the US and walked away.’
Harsh but I have to agree that there is a strong element of truth in your statement. Would you think the same ratioanle could apply to say the ‘whites’ who live in the sink estates of the UK or elsewhere in Europe ?
‘To see this Obama fiasco unfolding is bizzare comedy at it’s best. The man is a verifiable racist, associates with the most radical, race baiting, segment of the minority community, and any light shining on this is met with screams, and hand wringing, and cries of racism. No denials of the obvious, just shooting of the messenger’
Obama is not a racist .He is the first person of colour to have a realistic chance of winning the USA Presidency . He cannot win unless he possibly 5 or 6 votes from ‘whites’for every one he gets from blacks. I prefer Clinton not because she’s white or female but simply because she has a better chance imo of defeating McCain in the ECV’s. Obama would make an excellent VP and a good President IMO . I just hope he doesn’t become the candidate just to lose the ECV vote like Gore in 2000. With a few years under his belt as VP he’ll have a better chance of winning .
‘ Articles like this are hard to find, given the ‘lose at any cost’ dogma of the msm, and the hyped international anti-US crowd.’
‘The Iraqi government crackdown on Shiite militias has raised new doubts about the readiness and fitness of some Iraqi security forces. Earlier this week, a company of Iraqi soldiers abandoned their frontline position in Baghdad’s Sadr City neighborhood, despite pleas from American soldiers nearby to stay at their post. Residents of the Shiite slum, meantime, are frustrated by the ongoing fighting and deteriorating conditions on the ground’
In response to the above Americans have now brought in contractors to build a giant wall between Sadr City and the rest of Baghdad to ‘protect’ the Green Zone from rocket attack and the militants. You might want to call it the Belfastization of Baghdad or perhaps Berlinisation might be more appropriate .
I’m not anti American quite the contrary. I actually believed getting rid of Saddam Hussein would be good for Iraq and the world even the Islamic world . I don’t want to see Afghanistan being handed over to the Taliban . But I believe that the Iraqi war has been so mismanaged and so poorly thought out that in the 5 years America has been there they have learnt little except how to throw more American taxpayers money into an ever deepening hole in the desert .
Time to go .
“The problem with John McCain in particular, and Americans in general is that they have generally succeeded in their wars with relatively little difficulty, thought, and remembrance, and, consequently, think – unlike all other people – that it is the first thing to use in any dispute rather than the means of last resort.”
There is a high tensile spring at the Pentagon, obliging delay and elastic procrastination.
If you book the war a year ahead of time it might roll off the blocks a few months late.
‘If you book the war a year ahead of time it might roll off the blocks a few months late. ‘
Bush was looking for the weapons of mass destruction in the wrong place . While he thought or wanted to believe they were in Iraq in truth they were back in the USA and were called CDO’s (collateralised debt obligations ) These CDO’s on top of the sub prime mortgages debacle spread more destruction than the so called WMD’s in Iraq . Investor Warren Buffet , in 2003 prophetically nominated financial derivatives as the ‘weapons of mass destruction’ especially to be feared. As millions of Americans are in hock up to their eyeballs and millions more face the loss of their homes one wonders how much more damage to the USA economy could anything Saddam could ever have had would have done ?
In July 1914 Austria -Hungary could not mobilise it’s army for a quick invasion of Serbia to avenge the death of the Hapsburg heir. Too many soldiers had been given furlough /leave to go home to bring in the harvest . As a result what could have been a short sharp local suppression of Serbia if only temporarily, dragged out into weeks of great power ultimatums , mobilisations and counter mobilisations until the Guns of August finally initiated the war which led to an est 40 million deaths in Europe and which led to an even worse carnage in WW2.
Mr Bush’s short sharp whose war symbolised forever by his infamous ‘Mission Accomplished’ landing on an aircraft carrier ‘ has not ended after five years . Instead it has dragged on and is about to drag other nations in this region into it’s morass. A strike against Iran cannot be discounted before Bush leaves office !
“Thanks for the uni answer Chuck, any idea about naturalized/sworn in immigrants and the pledge of allegiance if they’re not god-fearing folk?
Cheers, RS. I asked an athiest friend of mine and he said that he just doesn’t say the “under God” part of the Pledge. I just don’t know about naturalizations, other than I know they take an oath. I’ll google it later.
Later
‘If you book the war a year ahead of time it might roll off the blocks a few months late. ‘
Bush was looking for the weapons of mass destruction in the wrong place . While he thought or wanted to believe they were in Iraq in truth they were back in the USA and were called CDO’s (collateralised debt obligations ) These CDO’s on top of the sub prime mortgages debacle spread more destruction than the so called WMD’s in Iraq . Investor Warren Buffet , in 2003 prophetically nominated financial derivatives as the ‘weapons of mass destruction’ especially to be feared. As millions of Americans are in hock up to their eyeballs and millions more face the loss of their homes one wonders how much more damage to the USA economy would anything Saddam had , ever have done ?
In July 1914 Austria -Hungary could not mobilise it’s army for a quick invasion of Serbia to avenge the death of the Hapsburg heir. Too many soldiers had been given furlough /leave to go home to bring in the harvest . As a result what could have been a short sharp local temporary suppression of Serbia dragged out into weeks of great power ultimatums , mobilisations and counter mobilisations until war broke out which led to a ‘harvest’ of 40 million deaths in Europe and which in turn led to an even worse carnage in WW2.
Mr Bush’s short sharp war symbolised forever by his infamous ‘Mission Accomplished’ landing on an aircraft carrier ‘ has not ended after five years . Instead it has dragged on and is about to drag other nations in this region into it’s morass. A strike against Iran can’t be discounted before Bush leaves office !
And Mr McCain expects to win in November ?
Moderator ,
please delete Post No 4 on Apr 18, 2008 @ 07:31 PM
Duplication – trigger happy finger
Wrong . Senator Joe Liebermann was Al Gore’s running mate in 2000 . Had Gore not been defeated by the ECV’s the USA would have been a heart attack away from having a non Christian President.
What would he have done upon being sworn in ?
You only have to look at the current presidential (candidate) campaigning. God runs through the whole thing, with all the candidates. They obviously all believe that it’s extremely important that they present themselves as devout Christians. I’m pretty sure Bill Clinton knew this as well, what with all of his atonement/repentence carry-on when he was caught over the Lewinsky thing.
It’s not inconceivable that John McCain may select Liebermann as his running mate in November.
I’d say it’s reasonably close to being inconceivable. Is there a precedent for a Republican (especially one as far out as McCain) selecting a Democrat running mate ?
Try bringing a priest , rabbi or mullah into an American public elementary school and you won’t be laughing .
To be sure, there are huge problems with nutters trying to get evolution taken off the books at schools and replaced with pseudoscience rubbish. And then there’s that “one nation under God” business. I seem to remember Bush Snr stating that atheists had no place in American government (or similar?).
Charlie:
Right Greenflag. Since we have no state religion, all religion is allowed to flourish and grow.
You might want to ask Islamophobe Bob from Boston about the benefits of that. That said, the US political infrastructure recognizes religions through the tax system, which enables organizations like the Church of Scientology to gain tax-exempt status merely on the basis of their beliefs, rather than their charitable actions.
The Bishop acting as MC said something like, “Yes Holy Father, since American Independence we’ve flourished, since under the British colonial system Catholics were prohibited by law from worshipping.”
I suggest you do some reading about the tactics that were used against President Kennedy during his election campaign. I was surprised when I read them, since they reminded me very much of life in Northern Ireland.
BfB, I don’t debate with white supremacists.
USA:
Oh, and one other thing. You would be surprised about what some Americans know about your petty little provincial squabble – its just that like the people in the ROI and Britain – we will help if you show signs of helping yourself but otherwise we are all too busy making money and trying to solve our own problems.
Actually, some of us remember the Americans during the 1960s and 1970s providing guns and funding to the paramilitary organizations here, with the goal of creating and prolonging a terrorist campaign, and at the same time refusing to provide funding for humanitarian purposes. These people were and still are backed up to the pretty high levels in US political life, eg Congressman Peter King who up until very recently was still lobbying the US Government to withdraw from co-operation with the NI police force. I don’t know where he stands right now.
6countyprod:
Some people on the island of Ireland have been saying ‘No Surrender’ and insisting on religious freedom for the most of 400 years.
That would include the Pope, who supported King Billy. And religious freedom is a funny way to describe the repressive legislation enacted in the aftermath of that little spat. How is a ban on Catholic worship freedom ?
It is only now that we are seeing the benefits of such perseverance and single-mindedness in the fact that Irish nationalists have finally come to their senses and have laid down their weapons, and are now willing to accord a little respect to those of a different persuasion.
Wouldn’t it be nice if the unionist paramilitaries would lay down their weapons too ?
Iraq looks like it is heading towards better days.
Jesus, you really are a complete fucking joker. I first heard that from George Bush in 2004. How many times as Fallujah been re-liberated now ?
“Mr Bush’s short sharp war symbolised forever by his infamous ‘Mission Accomplished’ landing on an aircraft carrier ‘ has not ended after five years . Instead it has dragged on and is about to drag other nations in this region into it’s morass. A strike against Iran can’t be discounted before Bush leaves office ! And Mr McCain expects to win in November ? ”
If Shia kills Shia, that’s trouble, if Sunni kills Shia who kills other Shia, with the Turks helping, and the Christians going extinct, that’s Rwanda. It’s the war you’ve got, you will know when it’s over, wishing it away isn’t going to make that happen.
Stalin
Tinfoil hat on the way.
Read a book. (non-fiction)
‘They obviously all believe that it’s extremely important that they present themselves as devout Christians.’
Presenting yourself as a devout Christian is not the same as being one . I doubt if either McCain or Clinton are into ‘faith’ to the degree that Bush was and I suspect Obama to be more obliged to be a happy clapper given his community background. Call it political packaging . The USA’s last genuine IMO Christian President was Jimmy Carter . Reagan never bothered with church going.
‘It’s not inconceivable that John McCain may select Liebermann as his running mate in November.’
Not as inconceivable as you might think .McCain has to reach out to those Democrats who may not be as anti war in the sense of a quick withdrawal and who better than Lieberman . Condi Rice is also a possibility to help water down Obama’s appeal to african American voters . One way or another if McCain picks a ‘conservative’ bible thumping Republican he’s dead in the water . A strong possibility could be Charlie Crist of Florida .He’s a ‘moderate’ and could help to deliver Florida in a rerun of the 2000 fiasco particulary if Obama is the candidate . There are too many old white farts retired in Florida who unlike the younger generation might not be up to voting for an African American president even if their pensions are dwindling in value , and their pensions are barely enough to keep them alive on cat food !
That’s how I see it anyway .
GF
I wasn’t pinning the anti-US thing on you in particular. I think I get where you stand there. But miles off on the whole islamic terrorist murderers going away if we don’t poke them thingy..
“I’ve spoken of the shining city all my political life…. [I]n my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed….”
– President Ronald Reagan, Farewell Address, January 11, 1989
“‘God Bless America?’ No, no, no, God d— America…. God d— America…. God d— America!!”
– Jeremiah Wright, pastor to Barack Obama for two decades
Doesn’t take a whole lot of intellectual horsepower to draw a valid conclusion about where these men stand on religion. and every other important political, social, and moral subject.
BfB,
‘But miles off on the whole islamic terrorist murderers going away if we don’t poke them thingy’
I don’t have a problem standing up to Islamic fascism /terrorism and intolerance . But I find it hypocritical of the USA to be fighting in iraq while at the same time supporting the ‘degenerate’ Saudi leadership which has backed for decades the Islamic sect which is even more anti american /anti western than the Iranian mullahs ? I think the ‘bringing ‘ democracy to Iraq was a nice theory which has been brutally murdered by the facts on the ground . Iraq is three ‘nations’ forced into one . An artificial State just like Yugoslavia was . The outcome will probably be the same eventually whether the USA is there or not . The Iranians will be the local regional power along with Pakistan . The USA is about to lose it’s Pakistani ally Musharaff and the Iranians are having a hoot at the expense of Americans . Their President recently visited Baghdad was accorded a State welcome and was driven through the streets to the applause of thousands of Iraqi’s . Messrs Cheney and Bush have to scurry in and out like rats in a cat house . . In 2002 oil was in the 22 to 28 dollar per barrel price range . It’s now over 100 and stil climbing . The dollar was worth more 25% more than a Euro . It’s now worth slightly more than half a Euro .
Open your eyes man and make sure your eyes are seeing what your ears hearing and vice versa . I know it can be difficult given the ‘embedded’ media thingy .
Hey, not for nuthin’ but, I was heartbroken when old Ron Paul got flushed, but only in America, can something like this carry on in his name. EEYew…
Oh and did someone actually mention Carter in this thread. Billy was much more of a statesman than Jimmy the Geek will ever be. They should require he travel in a bright orange Volkswagen, wear makeup, a big red nose, and HUGE yellow shoes. Oh ya, and a great AOOOGAA horn strapped to his waist.
BfB’
‘pastor to Barack Obama for two decades ‘
I never paid much attention to what pastors or priests or popes or ministers have to say regarding the ‘political ‘ world . They have to play to their audience to keep the money rolling in . Wright is just a black Paisley . Paisley ranted about Catholics going to hell and Fenians going to sup with Beelzebub and the Pope was the whore of Babylon for decades . The eejits who believed him voted for him. As soon as he got into power he changed his message.And now he shares power in government with the formerly hell bound Fenians /Catholics and Pope worshippers . Paisley was/is is a showman /entertainer /comedian and so was/is Pastor Wright. The poor suckers who give these kind of people money are to be pitied .
To be fair to the man some of what he said as regards the black american experience was right on the money to any neutral listener. But I assure you it was a whole lot milder than what Paisley had to say about Irish Republicans and Catholics on this island over a 40 year political career .
Look on the bright side . Wright will not be elected US President . Paisley WAS elected First Minister of Northern Ireland .
Heaven magicians the lot of them anyway
‘Doesn’t take a whole lot of intellectual horsepower to draw a valid conclusion about where these men stand on religion. and every other important political, social, and moral subject.’
And it should take even less intellectual horsepower to realise that they are after your wallet and as many others as they can get their hands on . And the RC Church/Episcopalians/ etc are no different just a bit more ‘professional’ about their ‘collection’ techniques ! They’ve been in business longer ye see !
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/fisk/robert-fisk-semantics-cant-mask-bushs-chicanery-808171.html
so it goes…
BfB’
Beware land scams especially in West Texas where an acre should cost about 100 dollars if that depending on disance from a town or water . So if some genius can persuade naive farts around the USA to part with 500 dollars for an acre of land that costs 100 dollars dollars then if they can sell say 3,000 acres (a small ranch ) that s a tidy 1.2 million dollars gross profit .
Unfortunately for Ron Paul followers there are 7 billion people on the planet and if we were all to live the ‘ideal’ freedom loving small or no government lifestyle there would first have to be a massive culling of humanity to get the numbers down to a manageable 100 million or so which is what it would take . So what are Ron Paul’s chances of persuading 6.9 billion people that they have to depart this mortal coil in the interest of small or no government for the 100 million lucky ones ?
Mr. Flag,
‘Islamic fascism /terrorism and intolerance’..
Heh, heh.. your first impulse is to always put lipstick on the pigs….. tut, tut.
They are a vile, vile, murderous, cancer on modern civilization. They are being dealt with. You can lead, follow, or get out of the way. Unless, of course, you have a better plan you’d like to start implementing tomorrow. The EU theater is in desperate sociologic straits. Nit pick on the various economic and socio-cultural shifts (I hear fiddle music), and the sling your ass is in will eventually catch fire. I put the Saudi’s in the same boat as much of th world Muslim community. They will play both ends against the middle, to their own end. I think that, in the end….(a long way away) they will get it in the neck. I just hope most of Europe doesn’t suffer the same fate.
driftwood ,
Thanks for that link . Fisk does a good job of unveiling the now almost naked ‘emperor’
‘They are a vile, vile, murderous, cancer on modern civilization.’
Not at all they are just backward clergy and misogynists. The Taliban are a backward shower of primitives but not much worse than medieval europeans who burnt women as witches if they spoke their mind back in the 16th century and earlier.
‘I just hope most of Europe doesn’t suffer the same fate. ‘
A German ladies soccer team played an ‘international ‘ against an Iranian 11 in a stadium packed with female spectators last week . No Men allowed and the women had to cover their hair while playing . The Germans covered their hair too . Both teams are the best of friends and thus is exposed the ‘lunacy’ of some Islamic modes of behaviour . Best to laugh at them or with them . Beating them over the head with rifle butts doesn’t work . Ask the Brits . They tried that tactic for generations in Ireland . And they’re still paying through the nose to the tune of 12 billion dollars a year to keep a little piece of Ireland afloat on a sinking boat of welfare dependency !
Iraq will be an even costlier undertaking . 100 years at one trillion a year will very soon amount to real money
Now good night and dream your dreams of glory
I’ll be sleeping a bit safer than you…. After I return from dolphin catching, that is.
Look on the bright side . Wright will not be elected US President . Paisley WAS elected First Minister of Northern Ireland .
Yah…..go figure!!
German socccer ploy..
Lipstick——->Pig
*Fisk does a good job of unveiling the now almost naked ‘emperor’*
He’s an idiot actually, but because he is reflexively anti-American some people accord his drivel great intellectual worth.
Comrade Stalin
“What would he have done upon being sworn in ?”
I don’t see how that would be a problem. The president’s oath of office, from Article 2, Section 1:
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States; and will, to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend, the Constitution of the United States.”
Now, does that mean an athiest (or Muslim or Jew) is likely to get elected president? Probably not anytime soon. But that’s down to the voters, not the system. If they were elected there would be no problem with them taking the oath or serving.
There are jewish and muslim members of congress, and congressmen take an oath that is very similar to the president’s.
Religious requirements to hold office are specifically forbiden under Article 7:
“The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by oath or affirmation to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, under the United States.”
There is a tradition of people taking the oath on a bible, but this is in no way required. Sometimes people will ask for a special copy of the bible (or another book) from the Library of Congress that has some historical significance to take their oath on. Rahm Emanuel took his oath of office on a Koran that had been owned by Thomas Jefferson. I though that was very well done, it made the wingers jumping up and down about his religion and patriotism look a bit foolish IMHO.
Harry Flashman .
‘He’s an idiot actually’
He’s anti Bush . Not the same thing as being anti american . If it were almost 75% of Americans would be anti american which I’m sure you would agree would be an ‘idiocy’ !
almost 75% of Americans?
Could you give me a cite?
Coffee, I need coffee
‘Could you give me a cite?’
Go on line and google ‘opinion polls on Bush presidency . His last approval rating was 28% thus 100 minus 28 = 72 which even in the USA must be a new low if not the lowest for any President since polls were taken .
‘Coffee, I need coffee ‘
Not at all you need a cell – brain or padded and quite possibly both
100 – 28 HA!
Thick as a plank, nutter, anti-US math!!
If that is one of your research methodologies used to form your ‘opinions’, I now envision a scruffy, tin can strewn flat, with half empty pickle jars for ‘beverages’ and an odor cornucopia to gag a shithouse rat..
All right BfB . I confess . Mr Bush is the most popular President the USA has ever had . His policies since election have served the American people very well as can be seen from a peaceful democratic Iraq and an even more peaceful Afghanistan , the wonderful state of the American economy with prosperity , economic growth at an all time high , the American dollar has never been stronger , and the price of oil has never been lower. No to mention the USA being the most admired and respected democracy on the planet .
Comrade Stalin had a point !
Greenie
The problem I see here is that there is no reasonable, verifiable, middle ground for those in your camp. It’s ‘my wild eyed, overstated, bloated, one note johnny, opinion’, or, you’re a stooooopid, racist, wah, wah, blah,blah….
No surprise you hang with stalin.
You’re both a shower of prats…
‘The problem I see here is that there is no reasonable, verifiable, middle ground for those in your camp.’
Eh ? We are the middle ground . Most Americans and Europeans are ‘anti Bush’ and his failed policies both in the USA and around the world.
For your weekend reading I suggest Kevin Phillips new book ‘Bad Money’ You should get enough ‘verifiable’ numbers to a) open your eyes and /or b) remove the wax from your ears!.
Eh ? We are the middle ground .
Thanks for making my point.
Have a nice day.
‘Thanks for making my point’.
So you agree now that
‘Most Americans and Europeans are ‘anti Bush’ and his failed policies both in the USA and around the world.’
Have a nicer day
Greenflag, a valiant effort but ultimately doomed to failure. I’ve had more productive arguments with the brick wall of my house.
Greenflag,
Personally I’m not the middle ground. It is hard to think of any way that Bush’s presidency could be considered a success. Bush’s foreign policies have been a total failure; Iraq, previously under the control of a (brutal) secular dictator, is now in the hands of fundamentalist lunatics; the policy in Iraq has been cited by those responsible for a number of failed terrorist attacks as part of their motivation.
At home, Bush started out with an exchequer surplus, and quickly whittled it away into a massive debt through unnecessary tax cuts for the rich (and poor – that IRS cheque mailing fiasco was insane and must have cost many millions of dollars in administration – why not just return the tax to people through the tax code or tax credits ?) and poor management of the economy. The housing boom and bust does have roots which preceded Bush’s presidency, but he’s had 8 years to anticipate and do something about it.
So, if someone could please point out some positive things that this man has actually done for the country, then by all means let’s hear it, but from where I’m standing the USA is in worse condition than he found it. Simply asking that question is not what makes me anti-Bush. About the only sensible thing I can think of is the way North Korea is being handled, but even that is merely a return to the Clinton-era strategy of pursuing talks alongside China and South Korea, rather than the initial Bush strategy earlier in his presidency which led to a resumption of nuclear weapons development and a subsequent nuclear test in that country.
Comrade Stalin,
‘Personally I’m not the middle ground’
Nor was I imputing it . By middle ground I meant the majority of European and American voters.
‘if someone could please point out some positive things that this man has actually done for the country, then by all means let’s hear it’
Get ready for the sound of silence . Comrade S.
‘The housing boom and bust does have roots which preceded Bush’s presidency, but he’s had 8 years to anticipate and do something about it.’
True and Clinton has a lot to answer for in that period during which the Democrats cosied up to Wall St and turned a blind eye to the perfect storm which was being prepared to be unleashed on the american public.
[b]GF[/b]
*Not the same thing as being anti american*
I agree but Fisk is anti-American, he has been bitter in his criticism of the United States over three decades and five presidents
[b]CS[/b]
*So, if someone could please point out some positive things that this man has actually done for the country, then by all means let’s hear it*
The overthrow of two tyrannous regimes in the Middle East and their replacement by democratically elected governments.
The withdrawal of Assad’s Syrian thugs from Lebanon, the successful and peaceful nuclear disarmament of Ghadafhi’s Lybia, the containment of Iran and North Korea.
The public repudiation of the cynical old US foreign policy of “realpolitik” in favour of the promotion of freedom, democracy and the human rights of men and more importantly women (the greatest advances in woman’s liberation in recent years have been made by big ignorant US Marines rather than by the Women’s Studies faculty of Harvard).
How’s all that for getting along with? How does it compare with Clinton’s or heaven help us Jimmy Carter’s record?
Of course all of the above is a work in progress, there’s still much to be achieved but in a decade or so we shall see who comes out of this period as the most forward looking statesman.
In exactly the same way Ronnie Reagan was dismissed as a brainless, warmongering buffoon until the collapse of Communism after his time in office showed the world what a visionary he had been (no, please, I beg you, don’t display your ignorance by asserting that Gorbachev ended Communism, he merely faciltated the surrender).
Hardly surprising that you resort to an all-American rant, Harry Flashman, when dealing with the performance of the recent screwballs running the world from Washington.
If Iraq and Afghanistan are doing so great now, with “their democratically elected governments”,
how do you explain the daily mayhem going on there – what only gets worse every day? One can only wonder what you would consider failure there.
And your comments about Lebanon, Libya, Iran and North Korea are just fantasies, not facts and analysis.
And it is hard not to sound anti-American when discussing their performance as it is hard to see anything good they are doing – what I, an American, generally hear when I disucss their lamentable record.
As for Crazy Ronnie, he would have had Ollie North destroy the world in getting rid of Sweden’s statsminister Olof Palme if it had not been for the spying for the Soviets by true Americans – i. e., the Agency’s Rick Ames and the Bureau’s Robert Hanssen et al.
Something must have been terribly wrong when only its “traitors” saved us.
Harry Flashman,
Fisk has beem anti American foreign policy hypocrisy and oddly enough also anti British foreign policy hypocrisy when the facts have merited it .
‘In the British journalistic tradition of the foreign correspondent, Fisk has developed a personal analysis of the foreign affairs that he covers and presents them in that light, often with trenchant criticism of the British government and its allies. Fisk is a consistent critic of what he perceives as hypocrisy in British government foreign policy.
Fisk’s reporting—and his bestselling books, based on his field notes and recordings— offer strong criticisms of Middle Eastern governments as well as what he perceives as hypocrisy in British and United States government foreign policy. His view of journalism is that it must “challenge authority — all authority — especially so when governments and politicians take us to war”, and he quotes with approval the Israeli journalist Amira Hass: “There is a misconception that journalists can be objective … What journalism is really about is to monitor power and the centres of power.”[5] Fisk has received widespread praise for his condemnation of violence against civilians.
Speaking of the historical basis for the conflicts he has covered Fisk said, “After the allied victory of 1918, at the end of my father’s war, the victors divided up the lands of their former enemies. In the space of just seventeen months, they created the borders of Northern Ireland, Yugoslavia and most of the Middle East. And I have spent my entire career — in Belfast and Sarajevo, in Beirut and Baghdad — watching the people within those borders burn.”
The western world needs more reporters like Fisk -IMO. BTW for those who don’t read the Independent (British ) Fisk has been a foreign correspondent for 30 years and hails from Maidstone, Kent in England .
‘Of course all of the above is a work in progress, there’s still much to be achieved but in a decade or so we shall see who comes out of this period as the most forward looking statesman.’
Work in progress ? In a decade or so ?
We’re progressing so much that oil is heading for 150 dollars a barrel and the American dollar is heading for replacement as the world’s reserve currency . The whole international financial system has avoided complete meltdown by a hairsbreath several times in the past three years and we owe all of this to a ‘visionary’.
In 1988 when Ronald Reagan left office he was ‘missed’ by most Americans . In 2008 most Americans can hardly wait for GW Bush II to leave office . There has never been such interest in finding somebody to succeed him . Reagan also passed on the Presidency to a Republican . GW Bush II will almost certainly be passing on to a Democratic Congress , Senate and Presidency .
Trowbridge when it comes to “rants”, “screwballs” and craziness you beat all comers, being criticised by you is a confirmation that my mental faculties are still in good order.
Tell us again, was it Prince Philip, Opus Dei, the Jews or the giant lizard king who assassinated Olaf Palme? I usually lose track when you start explaining it all.
GF
Fisk blames everything on the west, it’s always the fault of the west, the Arabs/Muslims are poor wee children who have been manipulated and deceived by the big bad people in the west for generations therefore they are not responsible for their actions, when they do something wrong we must blame ourselves, never they themselves, because Muslims/Arabs never have any responsibility for anything.
Further, he believes there is no connection between Islam and terrorism, that is quite simply palpable nonsense.
Like I say Robert Fisk is an idiot.
*GW Bush II will almost certainly be passing on to a Democratic Congress , Senate and Presidency .*
You want to bet? I do not believe that will be the case, Iraq will not be an issue in the November election, the current Democratic Congress has worse poll ratings than George Bush.
Don’t believe the hype, if Obama is the Democratic candidate he will be ripped to shreds due to his character and poor associations. McCain won’t walk it but he’ll beat Obama if the Dems are foolish enough to put him forward.
I shall have to tell you again about who asssassinated Olof Palme since I have never made mention of Prince Philip, Opus Dei, the Jews or the giant lizard king having had anything to do with it.
It was done by North, Major David Walker’s KMS reassessment tean, including hit man Captain Simon Hayward, reassessing the statsminister’s bodyguards at the end of February 1986, MI6′s John Scarlett, Oleg Gordievsky, etc., ad nauseam.
For the conspiracy which thankfully turned into a massive cockup, see these links:
http://www.skog.de/writers/e040831.htm
http://codshit.blogspot.com/2004/02/nsc-s-lt-colonel-oliver-north-from-key.html
I haven’t even gone with blaming MI6, Prince Philip, the Jews, etc. for the death of Diana, as this link indicates:
http://cryptome.org/tood-kill.htm
In short, you are just ranting more recklessly to prove that you are incapable of any reasonable discussion.
OK, let me humour you some more (I don’t “rant” by the way, a sure sign of when your opponent is losing the argument is when he accuses you of “ranting”), why was a non-descript Scandinavian prime minister murdered by these shady characters?
Was it because;
A) He was about to expose the fake Moon landings
B) He knew the Fourth Secret of Fatima
C) He was really Elvis Presley
D) He was the mystery shooter on the grassy knoll in Dallas in ’63
or
E) He was Muhammed Al Fayed’s love child by Marilyn Monroe?
Harry,
I appreciate you going to the trouble of actually making a case, unlike other contributors here.
The overthrow of two tyrannous regimes in the Middle East and their replacement by democratically elected governments.
Neither of these were actual foreign policy objectives for the Bush administration.
Either way, it is still hard to describe either of those as a success by any yardstick. The two governments that you mention have no control over large swathes of their respective countries, and a heavy foreign military presence is required to reinforce what’s there. In both cases, Al Quaida have reinforced and expanded their network of terrorist cells and have killed many thousands of soldiers. As soon as the military presence is withdrawn, both states will collapse into civil war. I’m not seeing anything that can legitimately be described as a victory.
The withdrawal of Assad’s Syrian thugs from Lebanon, the successful and peaceful nuclear disarmament of Ghadafhi’s Lybia,
I cannot see the hand of US foreign policy in those cases. Libya saw the writing on the wall a long time ago. The Brits deserve the credit for that one.
the containment of Iran and North Korea.
Containment ? Iran now has a nuclear programme, it did not before Bush was in control. North Korea detonated a test nuclear device. Had Bush continued the Clinton-era policy towards North Korea (which he did eventually belatedly resume) it’s unlikely that that country would have resumed the development that led to the detonation of that device.
The public repudiation of the cynical old US foreign policy of “realpolitik” in favour of the promotion of freedom, democracy and the human rights of men and more importantly women (the greatest advances in woman’s liberation in recent years have been made by big ignorant US Marines rather than by the Women’s Studies faculty of Harvard).
That paragraph is a lot of old flim-flam. The USA-PATRIOT act and it’s subsequent implementation, and the disasterous mess that is the USA’s administration of it’s electoral process makes this seem like a sick joke, alongside the interference in the democratic processes in places like Venezuela. The sight of people queuing for hours outside polling stations is nothing less than a shameful situation. A person could be diplomatic and say that these problems existed long before Bush, but what’s undeniable is that the Republicans have done nothing about it and have actually been openly exploiting it for their own purposes.
How’s all that for getting along with? How does it compare with Clinton’s or heaven help us Jimmy Carter’s record?
The policies described above, where successful, have been a continuation of Clinton-era policies, not a repudiation of them or a “new era”. Clinton, incidentally, backed the Iraq war and the removal of Hussein.
Of course all of the above is a work in progress, there’s still much to be achieved but in a decade or so we shall see who comes out of this period as the most forward looking statesman.
Nope, I’m still not seeing it.
In exactly the same way Ronnie Reagan was dismissed as a brainless, warmongering buffoon until the collapse of Communism after his time in office showed the world what a visionary he had been (no, please, I beg you, don’t display your ignorance by asserting that Gorbachev ended Communism, he merely faciltated the surrender).
The ending of communism was an accident, and it was the result of a series of errors and misjudgements on Gorbachev’s behalf, compounded by the disasterous Afghanistan war (Jimmy Carter) and other events such as the explosion at Chernobyl. It was not his objective to bring down the USSR. Point me to what Reagan or Thatcher did to end communism, apart from make some nice speeches, and we’ll talk about it.
As usual, you are not even on the radar scene when it comes to reality, as is demonstrated by your not even including anything close to what happened to Palme.
He was killed because he stopped an Israeli flight with 80 Hawks missiles on board for the Iranians – part of the delayed payoff for the ‘October Surprise’ during the 1980 presidential election – when it tried to land in Sweden on November 17, 1985.
The assassination was to trigger a suprised reaction to the killing by the Soviets which Navy Secretary John Lehman’s fleet of attack subs would sink as their boomers went on station, Admiral Carl Trost’s Task Force Eagle would complement with an land attack across Norway to the Kola Peninsula, and NATO’s Anchor Express Exercise would be coopted into joining.
Fortunately, Ames, Hanssen et al. tipped off Moscow about what was in the works, so there was no surprised reaction: Trost refused to follow Lehamn’s orders; and Anchor Express Exercise ran into avalanches in Vasdalen rather than Soviet forces, resulting in the whole process being called off.
It was fortunate that it was because it would have resulted in a surprise nuclear war for the West which would have annihilated us all.
This was what Crazy Ronnie was willing to delegate to that loony Ollie.
Stalin
Ford
You have skullsful of liberal mush, and are
somewhat like Jamaican Fruit Bats (with the Bats having the upper hand). You refute fact with opinion at every turn. At least Mr. Flag gets paid by the word.
Tsk, tsk. ‘Useful idiots’ doesn’t even scratch the surface.. It does make for a great Sunday morning snort, though.
You’re happy to blame everything on the US, but ignore the reality of your Eurabian nightmare.
Wise up.
‘Fisk blames everything on the west, it’s always the fault of the west’
If you study the history of western involvement in the Middle East since and prior to WW1 and in particular since the ‘discovery’ of the black gold under the desert sands virtually every country in that region has been the object of western interference ,political exploitation and manipulation. The West has for instance stood idly by and seen the Christian community in Iraq decimated by the Shiite allies . They’ve seen the Maronite Lebanese community being marginalised by Islamic fanatics. As long as the black gold keeps flowing that’s all that matters . Unfortunately for the west that flow is now at risk not from Iraq but from what the Financial Times calls the new ‘Seven Sisters’ , Saudi Aramco, Gazprom (Russia) , Petro China , National Iranian Oil Co, Petrobras(Brazil), Petronas (Malaysia) and Petroleos de Venezuela. These companies are now causing a ‘revolution’ in the oil industry. The effect will be to unlink the dollar from the price of oil .And that will be the first major precipitous drop in America’s following on the bungling of it’s middle eastern policy.
But it’s best to leave it to the Federal Reserve to put out the real numbers that of course nobody wants to look at and think about too much .
Since Bush came to power America’s outstanding foreign debt has risen from 872 billion to 1,783 billion (1.8 trillion) a 104% increase . Americas’s home mortgage debt has increaseed from 4.9 trillion dollars to 9.9 trillion dolalrs again an over 100% increase. Outstanding domestic financial debt has increased from 8.5 trillion to 14.5 trillion a 70% increase and the USA’s current account deficit has gone up from 420 billion to 857 billion again a 100% increase .
All of this debt has been ‘built’ up on paper by the banks, mortgage brokers , credit card companies and the consumers who in the absence of real wage increases despite productivity increases from a decade or two of outsourcing manufacturing and computerisation were driven into borrowing ‘false’ equity out of their homes hyped up values etc etc. Finance companies and banks having no one left to ‘lend ‘ money to by 1999 decided to open up the only market left i.e the ‘NINJAS’ (No Income , No Job and No Assets) sub prime / interest only loans .
And the Iraqi War has just added more fuel to the above fire .
I don’t believe the USA is heading into a 30′s style recession but it’s going to take at least two administrations to get the USA back on a sound financial footing . By that time the the world balance of financial and manufacturing power will have again shifted significantly eastwards .
Bush II, Clinton, Bush 1 and Reagan all have to take the blame for sitting idly by and watch the bankers and the financial industry ‘expedite’ the shrinking of American manufacturing and the now visible emisseration of the American ‘middle class’ With banking dereulation and virtually no oversight the USA has seen the Enron’s , World Coms , Citigroup, scandals and now Bear Stearns destroy whatever credibility remains as regards the dollar ‘holding ‘ it’s value or of the excesses of the financial predators ever being brought under control .
Finally it’s USA and western troops that are in the Middle East . I haven’t seen any Iraqi or Iranian soldiers building walls in the vicinity of Temple Bar and last I heard from London’s West End there appears to be a dearth of Syrian invasion forces marching north from Dover .
Generations ago western countries went out to build Empires and loot other countries but at least proffered the hope for natives of GOD < the BIBLE and a better life in the never never a.k.a hereafter . As the natives in the Middle East have a ‘heavenly voodooism ‘ of their own the only excuse the West can come up with is to offer the indigenes ‘democracy’ . The West has fought shy of offering the same ‘gift’ to China because well because well because ?
Sorry Harry . Your ‘faith’ in Bush & Co is touching but despite your hopes sadly misplaced .
“Generations ago western countries went out to build Empires and loot other countries”
Kyuo kya Hereḳali puts the lie to that, it is a poem in Swahili, from the Battle of Mu’tah 628, to the breach of the Romanus gate at Constantinople in 1453,
it reflects the strategic issues reasonably well for that kind of narrative. The bottom line was that they were conquering us, a process which has not ended.
A contemporary understanding? I don’t ( as A christian) necessarily accept that Egypt is a Muslim state, that would be a good enough working concept, I also don’t accept the Turkish settlement as final.
It is no more unreasonable for me to want evreything back as it is for the pan-Muslim visionaries to want to keep it, their Empire is no more forver than the British empire,
they get a free pass, because they are mistakenly viewed as ‘backward’.
They’re not backward, they’re still sitting on the spoils. Anglolized Irish have a racist view of Christian orthodoxy. To accuse me of being a crusader, that’s a mistake, I don’t accept the Latins were a legitimate manifestation of ‘Roman’ intervention.
Heraclius, to the Muslims, was a serious enemy, Queen Victoria, GEneral Gordon, George Bush, not really, the Muslims understand ‘great’.
They’re not stupid, they really do have a geo-political orientation which puts to shame the lamentable standards of the Falls & Shankill.
The politics of Cyprus, Anatolia, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, to different potentials, are not settled. There will be more wars, of a kind, that requires people to picks sides. It is natural, that over a period of centuries, for North Africa to be Christian again, I believe that, I want that.
I take the Bertie Ahern view on that, it is inevitable, or it stays the same.
One will not do it with the sword, as such. That just makes things worse. Conquest, lacks equality, has racism, alienates, that was the mistake of British, Spanish, Italian and French.
G.