“We need to make an example of this particular incident..”
Interesting interjection by DUP MLA Jim Wells, and one I entirely agree with, on the felling of a number of protected trees in a private estate on the outskirts of Newcastle, County Down. One for the Northern Ireland Minister for the Environment, the DUP’s Arlene Foster, to ponder.. As the Woodland Trust spokesman says,
Patrick Craig from the Woodland Trust said: “We’re just absolutely appalled that yet again some more native trees have been destroyed.“The legislation is very, very strong, but unfortunately when it comes to enforcement, there doesn’t seem to be the willingness or ability of anybody to actually enforce those protection orders.”
Also from the BBC report
A DOE spokesperson said: “Planning Service can confirm that investigations into a possible breach of planning control in the Bryansford area of Newcastle are ongoing, however we cannot comment on the details of the investigation at this stage.”
A possible breach?
And maybe they’ll start to care about the some of the last street trees being removed in West Belfast when? When the area suits? It was in the papers too.
Am I correct in saying that in GB one requires some form of statutory permission to cut trees down? Here is seems possible to cut practically any trees down that one wants to. My mother used to have great fun ordering various people who offered to cut our trees down off the premises.
Did those trees also have a protection order, Mark?
A link to any reports would help.
Pete,
One of the two incidents in West Belfast this week did involve a protection order, behind the Balmoral Hotel, the other was on Finaghy Road without local consultation under DRD instruction.
Both were reported in the ATN but we shouldn’t allow that to damage the credibility of a story needlessly.
Mark
Feel free to add links to those incidents, rather than to imply bias against those incidents.
“And maybe they’ll start to care about the some of the last street trees being removed in West Belfast when? When the area suits? It was in the papers too”
I came out one day to find a Pol Pot committee talking about removing my lovely big tree for being too tree-like.
Kids used it to shelter from the rain. So it had to die by order of the group-think Gauleiters. The bloody indignity of it all.
G.
lol trees is just big weeds and they interfere with the enjoyment of a prairie vista
I have killed a couple thousand myself, I am sure there are more in my future
You Canadian or something? I’ve watched South Park, I don’t trust you people, you want to steal America from God’s people.
Did I read correctly on a “private” estate, in other words the trees were someone’s property?
I do appreciate that posters on Slugger love being peons of the Gub’mint, but trees are just large lumps of wood, if they are privately owned then get stuffed and mind your own business
Property is theft.
In West Belfast it will soon be stolen in any case.
perhaps Jim will get some help from his colleague,the MP for east Antrim on the issue ,but given Sammy’s track record on environmental issues,I doubt it.
Harry
They were native trees. Not your usual conifer types. Even that aside, this region is the least wooded in Europe, with a paltry 6% against the 36% for the latter. It’s for reasons like this that TPOs are put on certain trees.
Not that I am sure you are really very worried about silly little things like the natural environment.
Doubtless, they have been felled to make way for yet another estate of second homes for chip-eaters in one of our coastal areas.
I believe the trees surrounded, or were in the grounds of, a listed building? Doubtless, this estate will be built so close to that building it will be ultimately be de-listed, and no quicker than you can say “Bryant & May” a piece of built heritage will be gone, as quickly as the environmental bit did. Please note this paragraph is merely conjecture on my part. Any contributors who are aware of the site? I’d like to hear more.
Mark, interested to hear about the incidents in West Belfast – take care though – many urban trees are felled simply because they are past their sell-by date. Even the Dark Hedges near Armoy and the Frosses fall into that category. Several of the posher streets in East and South Belfast have also suffered this fate, for no reason other than public health and safety. But then I believe that is the excuse that the developer in THIS particular story also gave.
Personally? I hope he gets screwed to the full financial letter of the law. £30,000 PER TREE is the figure. I understand – though stand to be corrected – that around 100 trees were felled.
Folks, I’ve said it before, and doubtless will have to say it again: when it’s gone, it’s gone. So in the week when the RSPB’s survey has postulated ANOTHER 20% drop in birdlife across the UK (and let’s face it – the Brits look after their built and natural environment much better than we ever do) I’m giving a big shout out in favour of TPOs and the retention of PPS14 as well.
In the meantime, our Environment Minister is minded to…well…do not very much at all, it seems.
Greg
Yes I am CANADIAN LOL
We are quite used to being blamed by americans as per South Park
So if the Irish need some one to blame we have broad shoulders, besides we can always go enjoy our trees when it gets too much
I know all about Canada, I was asked to target your exotic dancer clubs, filthy things.
I never make generalizations, but I thought you were all commies, some more dangerous than others. Barb wire needed etc.
Other than that, you were just fine.
G.
Interesting concept Harry
Where does the ownership bit end? Animals? Children?
And I thought you were a conservative!
The property was purchased about 12 months ago by a well known NI developer of significant wealth.
The initial Tree Protection Order was granted on a temporary six month period and expired on 17th March. A new 12 month order was granted but did not come into effect until 18th/19th March. It is understood that persons within Downpatrick planning dept notified the owner and tipped them off about the gap in the order and the loophole this gap represented.
The trees run from the property down to the Shimna river which a native Irish salmon spawning river. These trees are act as an important canopy to the breeding grounds.
Clearing the tree’s means that the entire site now has full views of the area’s money shot i.e. the mts of mourne.
Even if the owner is fined at £30,000 a tree they will view this as acceptable on the basis that the site is now cleared and can now be extensively redeveloped. The removal of one tree opens up another site with a potential value of £200,000 a site..
TreesRUs
That’s more like it. Exactly the reason why this board is a lot more use than the MSM.
Just wondering when Finaghy Road was moved to west Belfast as implied somewhere above.
Anyway, God knows the said Mr Wells is far removed from my cup of tea politically, but he has an outstanding record and reputation on environmental issues, and has been lobbying from long before the issue ever came even close to being fashionable.
I know some people who vote for him on this basis alone, and I have to say I can’t really blame them.
Regarding Finaghy road, if the tree removal being talked about is where I think, it was at the bridge over the railway. To the best of my knowledge, this is in South Belfast from a parliamentary POV.
i think the worst case of moronic tree felling in recent years has to be the removal of the trees from O’Connell St in Dublin. Fair enough they have got the Phoenix Park, but a little greenery in a busy street is always welcome.
Must say this tree luvving movement is so old, it was invented in Glasgow just before the Papal visit of 1982. It’s champion was an extraordinary man, apparently he fell out with Paisley over minor scriptural matters;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/02/27/db2702.xml
Oh and that’s me up at the back near the high flats;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/4421461.stm
Naw that’s no me, picture 4!
“It is understood that persons within Downpatrick planning dept notified the owner and tipped them off about the gap in the order and the loophole this gap represented.”
Will the Minister or her Committee be ‘minded’ to investigate this allegation?
Don’t knock Canada
The world’s greatest right wing polemicist, Mark Steyn, is Canadian (er.. though he lives in Vermont)
Eoghan, are inveterate tree huggers barking mad or just informers for the Special Branch?
we always export our right wing nuts
and like almost every great thing in the states…..they got it from Canada. its a good thing they have such excelent neighbours
*Don’t knock Canada
The world’s greatest right wing polemicist, Mark Steyn, is Canadian (er.. though he lives in Vermont)*
And he’s currently being dragged through the star chamber that is known as the Canadian Human Rights Commission for having the temerity to express opinions that the government doesn’t approve of.
Canada, what a nasty little country.
Back on topic, so the private property in question was not subject to any preservation order at the time when the owner of said private property disposed of it according to his own wishes.
Case closed.
As I said above, get stuffed and mind your own business.
You want to have rights over another man’s private property? No problem, buy it off him, otherwise bog off and hug your own trees.
Harry
If the current levels of woodland mirrored those which are across Europe as a whole, I’d be the first to agree with you. But they don’t. You aren’t, by any chance, Seymour Sweeney?
By the way, you say “You want to have rights over another man’s private property?” State already does. The lodge is listed. That didn’t come from the local W.I. There’s planning permission. Building Control. Lots of little things like that. Your argument is a non-sequiter, and frankly in this case, just trollish.
I hope this guy gets well and truly butt-fucked. He is symptomatic of the piss-poor environmentally-challenged private sector in this region.
TreesRus
Did the developer pull the trees down during the loophole dates? UNless I picked this up incorrectly, there was a two day window, yet he seems to have done this outside of the dates…?
Also, I doubt very much if any judge would be lax enough to say “Oh you did on those two day? Oh that’s ok then”. The developer knew the notice would be renewed and yet pulled the trees down in full knowledge of this? That ain’t gonna stand.
Care to explain how a country can be nasty, Harry.
Or are you just taking man (and woman) playing to an extreme?
The owner/developer commenced his destruction on the 26th March around 7am and was still pulling down trees at 11.30pm that night.
They parked their vans over the entrance to block access throughout the day to police, planners, reports etc.
The owner/developer is a very wealthy man whose family own an estate agency in Newry (some might say it is the best agency in Newry – it may well bee or it may not bee) and have a large development company that have extensive properties throughout England and Dublin.
This property was purchased for £3.5m some 12 months ago at the peak. A neighboring property was purchased around the same time for £6m and resold 6 months later for £8m. Its believed the TPO effectively made the redevelopment a non starter and the market conditions prevented a flip on meaning potentially a significant loss to the developer (£2m).
This was a blatant act of destruction to make this property more commercially viable, persons in the planning dept are involved in this tip off and one would suspect what their motivations are..
In what way am I taking “man playing” joe?
Is Canada a man now?
I make my assertion about Canada’s nastiness as a result of following the kafkaesque censorship laws which are enshrined in Canadian law to allow the Canadian government to suppress dissenting thought.
I dislike such censorship in China, I hate it in Russia and I loathe it in Cuba and when I discover that kangaroo courts can operate in Canada to suppress free thought I am entitled to my opinion that a country which would allow such a travesty of free political expression is a nasty country.
If Canadians want to rejoin the community of nations which support the idea of freedom of expression than they can abolish their despotic censorship courts, until such time I am entitled to my opinion that Canada is a nasty society (note “entitled to my opinion”, it appears to be an alien concept in modern day Canada).
As regards the trees, here’s my point; trees can be planted and can grow again, believe me, the last time I checked there were an awful lot of trees out there. However civil and social liberties once surrendered to the state can never be brought back.
Far too many people in wee Norn Iron have an inbuilt, illiberal, “the government should do something” attitude. If the trees belong to this man and he has broken no law (though what the hell the state is doing telling a private individual how he can dispose of his own property defeats me – you want the trees? Fine, buy the feckin’ things or leave the free born citizen the hell alone) then it is of fuck all concern to the posters on Slugger O’Toole what the man does with his own property.
As for the idiot poster above who seemed to believe that trees equate to human children I can only suggest he go and boil his head.
“Regarding Finaghy road, if the tree removal being talked about is where I think, it was at the bridge over the railway. To the best of my knowledge, this is in South Belfast from a parliamentary POV.”
Yes it is, though fights between SDLP election canvassers turned it into a no-go area for a while.
I wrestled one SDLPer to the ground as he lunged at another with a packet of sandwiches. If I’d had a piece on me (pun itended) I would have just capped the sucker.
“Eoghan, are inveterate tree huggers barking mad or just informers for the Special Branch?”
Environmentalism is not like SF, it is possible to rise through the ranks without being a tout.
I’m not sure to whom Harry refers to with regard to tree/children thing. But it was not I, so I can only assume he’s referring to TreesRus.
It’s very easy to bury your head in the sand on this, Harry. But I would suggest to you that when you do, and you cut your head because it’s full of human detritus, old breeze blocks and hazardous materials, you may think differently.
Easy to write off any concern for the environment as tree-hugging, isn’t it? I’ll bet you’re the sort of person who believes nuclear energy is a good thing, and that all those clusters of leukemia in proximity to Sellafield were “coincidence”.
Certainly the trees can be planted again. But if they are forming a part of a localised eco-system, there’s not much point. Anyway, the land will have already been built upon for second home owning chip eaters. I hope that clarifies for you the statement, “when it’s gone, it’s gone.”
I’ll write it again for the hard of understanding, Harry: “You want to have rights over another man’s private property?” The State already does. The lodge is listed. Listing has been around since the 1960′s. There’s planning permission to gain; this has been around since the 1950′s. Building Control to satisfy – building control has been around in one form or another since the Great Fire of London. People have not had rights over the building purposes of their land for decades. And rightly so.
Your argument is a non-sequiter, and just trollish. But given your past form, Harry, that seems to be as far as informed debate ever runs with you.
Harry
“However civil and social liberties once surrendered to the state can never be brought back.”
Absolute Boll***s
But then the hyperbolic exaggeration is no stranger to you my friend.
Head Boiler.
The state can do what it wants, you need to own the National Gallery or something before you can turn billet hungry troops away.
Before WWI ( I think) they discussed cutting down *all* the trees to make acetone for munitions.
Me no chemist, so go easy on me.
G.
TreeRus – thanks for the clarification by the way. In addition to the potential loss you mentioned, I’d like to add that the full force of the law, with £30k per tree, over 100 trees, would take another £3m from his already depleted wallet.
That old “last tree has died, the last river has been poisoned” Cree proverb springs to mind. I hope this developer likes his money crispy…
Greg…environmentally, at least, things have come on, *just* a tad since then.
“Greg…environmentally, at least, things have come on, *just* a tad since then.”
Just give me time to read up on it.
There is a wierd thing, my tree is still there in the magnified view of those satelite maps. Do you reckon ‘he who must be obeyed’ called up NASA or somebody and said “use archive stuff or Curleys will stop advertising on the side of your space ships”?
G.
Gregory, tree .. bark .. branch. Twigged it?
I don’t think I have quite twigged it.
You mean ‘somebody’ asked SF to whack my tree because I exposed CEOP’s porn-fest?
UK Government Caught at “Child Protection” Conference with Porn Industry
By Terry Vanderheyden
BELFAST, November 16, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) – A Northern Ireland Assemblyman is condemning a British government MP for attending a “child protection” conference at a Belfast hotel known for its purveyance of pay-per-view pornography, an industry that is often guilty of trafficking in women and underage girls.
Well, the Castle spooks will not sit still for being brought to notice by uppity taigs.
On the other hand you may have completely lost me, but don’t worry about that, you won’t be the first. I can be as dumb as anything at times.
I liked your web-site by the way. The Carrickarede Rope Bridge is a big hit with my US coleagues, I have to find them things to do when they’re not up at Stormont or whatever.
All the best
G.
“In addition to the potential loss you mentioned, I’d like to add that the full force of the law, with £30k per tree, over 100 trees, would take another £3m from his already depleted wallet.”
In Hampstead, I think they can take a lot of cash from a person who does a tree wrong if the tree is protected.
G.
I could be wrong but I thought the railway was the boundary for the Ladybrook ward which falls into West Belfast, I’m open to correction as others disagree.
Is Appleton Park SB as well? I seem to recall the Reverend Martin Smyth MP having to do their stuff? Orchardville is SB, Ardmore also, I never canvassed (for the UUP) over the railway bridge though. I did Stockmans Lane, and Diamond Gardens etc.
Oh Christ, Cree proverbs, lord lift me out of it!
So that’s the standard of debate, jesus wept.
No, the debate ended two or three posts up.
The bit where you postulated that the State has no rights over what you do with your property, and then I went back to around 1600 to underline the fact that you’re just a silly arse, who most likely lives in a bungalow in Helen’s Bay, and has nothing more to do than troll on subjects you have little worthy opinion on?
That’s where it ended.
Harry
to put it plainly you are full of shit
Canada has one of the strongest free speach rights in the world
But neither the government nor the people will stand for hate speach
we don’t allow nazik’s to advocate the murder of jews or skin heads on blacks
I havent a clue who this person is but if the governmet is prosecuting him I am more than confident that he is deserving of censorship
Complete freedom of speach is total bullshit but post here exactly why this man deserves protection and why he is being persecuted instead of just spouting bile
Steyn reported on 1st March 2008 that the Ontario Human Rights Commission had declined to hear the suit against Maclean’s.[19] In Ontario, the Human Rights Code specifically prohibits the Commission from “interfer[ing] with the freedom of expression of opinion.[20]
So harry in Steyn’s own words you are full of shit, so apologize before you lose all credibility
I think Harry’s problem is that there isn’t a Cree proverb which says
“When the white man comes just hand everything over, especially the trees. It will be better for you in the long run.”