“We are not entirely sure what the time scale is..”
The President of the Republic of Ireland, Mary McAleese, has echoed Taoiseach Bertie Ahern by linking a visit by the Queen there to the devolution of policing and justice powers here. From the BBC report
“We know that it is dependent on the completion of devolution, which hopefully will not be too far away. We had hoped that would be May.” Mrs McAleese said: “We are not entirely sure what the time scale is. We hope it will keep closely to the timetable.”
Indeed. Adds From another report
Mrs McAleese said she thought it unlikely a visit would take place this year. “I would be hopeful, though, that it would happen sooner rather than later,” she said.
here we have the president of the country welcoming a foreign visitor to ireland, whilst that visitor retains over 5000 troops on irish soil.
only when those soldiers are removed would it be an appropiate time for the english monarch to visit.
All the slaves of Ireland will be out with their backs bent and their forelocks tipped, mimicking their perceived superiors and lacking self-worth. Slaves All.
Mrs.Windsor should be welcome to this island of ours when she gets on her knees and grovels for forgiveness for all the murder her country has perpetrated in this fair land of ours. But I’m sure that arrogance will prevent this.
Can someone please tell me how these two issues are dependant on one another.
Devolution of P&J;will happen when the unionist people in NI want it. After all it requires cross community support and it is clear at the moment not enough confidence building measures have been given to Unionists.
The visit by the Queen will take place when an invitation is sent by the Irish Government and accepted by the Queen.
Two entirely different matters.
Life is complicated enough without making it unnecessarily so.
The present line of argument might as well suggest devolution will happen if Ireland wins the Grand Slam and that will be a long time going on past performance—–60 years ago!!!!!
Harry
actually it was HM who was welcoming a foreign visitor…
BonarLaw “actually it was HM who was welcoming a foreign visitor… ”
but Mary was born and raised in Belfast so that leaves Betty from London as the visitor
Aside from the nature of the precondition being introduced, and I don’t remember this precondition being there before, doesn’t it seem undiplomatic for the Irish President to publicly issue fresh preconditions for a Royal visit to the Republic during this meeting with the Queen in NI?
Ah, the English Queen will be more than welcome to the Republic of Ireland. I wonder will she pay a visit to Kilmainham Gaol.
When Pope John Paul II visted Ireland in 1979, the steady demise of the Catholic Church happened. The red carpet is enthusiastically being rolled out for Liz down south.
slug – “doesn’t it seem undiplomatic for the Irish [Republic's] President to publicly issue fresh preconditions for a Royal visit to the Republic during this meeting with the Queen in NI?”
Very much so. But remember the sectarian comments from Mary McAleese about Protestants.
Regardless of where she was born, McAleese is in this part of the UK as a representative of a foreign power. You might think she would have some manners.
And given the amount of visits McAleese makes to Northern Ireland in her capacity as head of a foreign government, I don’t see any reason to delay the Queen’s visit to Eire.
After this latest outburst from McAleese, Unionist politicians should be telling her that she should stay away from Northern Ireland until after the Queen visits Eire.
“doesn’t it seem undiplomatic for the Irish President…..” it comes across as tacky and ill-mannered, maybe Mary is worried about being up staged on her home turf?
Go on Mary give that one a kick up the arse and send her back to Britain, that english woman shouldn’t be allowed in Belfast.
“Go on Mary give that one a kick up the arse and send her back to Britain, that english woman shouldn’t be allowed in Belfast.”
Posted by Belfastman on Mar 19, 2008 @ 05:01 PM
Mary is the visiting head of state, that’s what 90% of her people signed up to, from some of the bloggs it would seem the penny hasn’t dropped!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2M_hpoPwk
And englands screaming
“All the slaves of Ireland will be out with their backs bent and their forelocks tipped, mimicking their perceived superiors and lacking self-worth. Slaves All.”
….”when she gets on her knees and grovels for forgiveness for all the murder her country has perpetrated in this fair land of ours”….
Don’t tell me it’s time for the misty eyed lyricists to pluck up their instruments once more…Will check back when a resonable debate is taking place I think.
Whilst Her Majesties’ subjects in Northern Ireland are delighted by the gracious visit of our good Queen, one must ask for what reason does Her respective head of state in the Republic of Ireland feel that the privilege of a Royal visit to a foreign country should have any impact on the feelings of Her Majesties said subjects in Northern Ireland on the devolvement of P&J;powers to an assembly which contains elements still strongly associated with a terrorist group with the most appalling record in civic irresponsibility and human rights violations in the western world ?
Peace and Justice,
You can take the girl out of Ardyone………
Are the Sex Pistols misty eye lyricists too. When they sang about her they sang about the queen of their country and they were pretty pissed off with her.
The message in their song had a certain appeal, although being banned from most radio stations and top of the pops of course, millions of copies of this single were sold in britain and it become a national anthem of the disillusioned youth.
with a name like that you think he would appreciate the difference between adolescent fashion and pop culture and the actual substantive position of the broader adult population……
did someone say Dave Allen ?
Thank goodness the mad chip on the shoulder brigade haven’t found this thread or it would get totally ridiculous!
‘But remember the sectarian comments from Mary McAleese about Protestants.’
i don’t recall any sectarian remarks from Mrs McAleese about protestants. She did refer to the discrimination catholics suffered. Which is factually and historically accurate. And she did not put it on a par with the Holocaust, as certain people would like to pretend. I am aware however of sectarian, anti-catholic legislation which Mrs Windsor is shrouded in.
Can you not accept that not every one is falling headover hells about the royal family.
Mohamed Al Fayed is hardly an adolescent punk rocker but a sucessful business man who has created and contiues to create a lot of employment in britain.
He’s not exactly in love with her or her family either.
I can understand players in the process using a carrot and stick approach to try and keep to the May target. However, I still can’t understand raising something that is neither (and for a second time).
Ah! I forgot to mention the small matter of the death of his son Dodi and his girlfriend Diana
I am unclear what exactly Ms. McAleese was trying to achieve here. This will put no pressure at all on the DUP to agree to devolution of P+J as Nigel Dodds has just pointed out on Radio Ulster.
There are some echoes of that episode when an Irish politician suggested an historical interpretation centre at the Boyne in exchange for concessions from unionists.
I guess at least this episode is unlikely to increase suspicion and distrust of McAleese amongst unionists as it is already extremely high. It does, however, demonstrate that whatever she may think of herself and whatever some nationalists may think of her she is not and will never be some great cross community champion. Even if she wanted to be one; this episode shows that she has absolutely no concept of how unionists think. She is and will remain a tribal nationalist politician. Not that that is inherently wrong but it may not be how she wishes to see herself.
This episode and the fact that she met the Queen at the university from which she was instrumental in removing the national anthem from graduation demonstrates that she has not changed much and unionists perceptions of her are most unlikely to change.
‘Even if she wanted to be one; this episode shows that she has absolutely no concept of how unionists think. ‘
Eh ? Has anybody ? Not sure I’d use the words ‘think’ and ‘concept’ in the same sentence as ‘unionists’ . A bit like trying to introduce orang utangs to the finer points of euclidean geometry
Why only the other day an idiot MPA one Neil McCausland DUP stated it was ‘premature’ to discuss the possibility of St Patrick’s Day being made a National Holiday in Northern Ireland . I wonder would it be premature to discuss the removal of July 12th as a provincial holiday in NI given that barely half the people in the province celebrate it ?
No matter how white the unionist crow tries to paint itself the ‘black’ inevitably shows true
!
Repartition lads!
Greenflag,
I do enjoy your posts despite our rather different analyses of most Northern Irish issues. That post is, however, not especially witty and in the absence of humour it is simply bigoted. I think you can do better both in terms of humour and avoiding sectarian bigotry
the irish unionists are a bit like the illegitimate off-spring of royalty: kept hidden away due to the embarrassing nature of their condition.
i’m surprised nobody had the wit to suggest a wee walk along mrs. windsor’s highway……………..
“the irish unionists are a bit like the illegitimate off-spring of royalty: kept hidden away due to the embarrassing nature of their condition. ”
Again, a highly bigoted comment.
‘I do enjoy your posts despite our rather different analyses of most Northern Irish issues.’
I do too
And ditto for yours .
‘That post is, however, not especially witty and in the absence of humour it is simply bigoted’
Sometimes wit and humour are disguised as truth and sometimes vice versa . My apologies if it offended . But genuinely do you believe anybody on the planet has a real appreciation of how ‘Unionists’ think apart from Unionists themselves ? – Not that it matters mind you to anybody but Unionists . I would say the same is true of the Northern Irish Nationalist /Republican viewpoint only slightly less so ! I would be less than honest if I said I understood the Unionist mindset . I can sympathise with aspects of it -even admit to a faint legitmacy for it at the point of the establishment of the NI State but truly ‘understand ‘ – not yet anyway . However your efforts are painting a broader picture so kudos there .
Be honest even you must have your doubts about some DUP spokespersons ? I know I do about some of the SF shower’s utterances. I mean even Paisley expressed a view in favour of St Patrick’s Day becoming a national holiday for NI .
Okay maybe I am a bit grumpy; I still have the flu.
Please do not judge all of us Unionists on the basis of poor well meaning Nelson.I dont know where he gets some of his ideas-maybe from Lord Laird=soon to be canonised as Patron Saint of plastic cards. I will not judge all of you Nationalists on the basis of ill prepared remarks by poor Mary. By the way, I have forgiven her for likening my parents to the Nazis and breeding fascist sectarian attitudes into our family.
.Back to St.Patrick, a West Briton who showed a lot of courage and love for all our ancestors-except those whose ancestors died in the famine times. I have always celebrated St.Patrick’s Day. He is the patron saint of all Ireland which is nice in a way as he did most of his work in Ulster. His views on Christianity are close to those which I hold as an outcome of my CofI upbringing and Christian commitment..
I think every village and town should have a cross community religious service on St.Patrick’s Morning followed by a big alcohol free St.Patrick’s Breakfast.Every body from every walk of life sitting down together. Every Orange and Hibernian lodge should parade with bands playing hymns to the service and back. I think St.Patrick would like that.
T.Ruth
‘Please do not judge all of us Unionists on the basis of poor well meaning Nelson’
I don’t except sometimes if I’m feeling grouchy
As for Nelson well I know he means well but he might need to get down off the DUP Pillar and place both feet firmly on the ground and take three deep breaths before he opens his gob 
! I know why I could never be a politician 
‘I will not judge all of you Nationalists on the basis of ill prepared remarks by poor Mary.’
You show wisdom beyond your years . If I were a Unionist I’d have been upset too . She might have done better to follow the suggested course of action I outlined above for Nelson McCausland .
‘I think every village and town should have a cross community religious service on St.Patrick’s Morning followed by a big alcohol free St.Patrick’s Breakfast.Every body from every walk of life sitting down together. Every Orange and Hibernian lodge should parade with bands playing hymns to the service and back. I think St.Patrick would like that.’
A grand idea and should be worthy of support from all who cherish their Christian heritage regardless of denomination.
slug
that isn’t a bigoted comment, i am not a sectarian person. but watching the convultions of unionism trying to define themselves gives rise to such moments of light banter. i mean where else do you have a people who are british but speak ulster scots and shoot british constables at the same time………….
Lorraine: i mean where else do you have a people who are british but speak ulster scots and shoot british constables at the same time
What’s not British about either Ulster or Scotland from the Unionist point of view?
And, in the recent troubles, what did the organisation that shot several Garda Officers call itself?
“Go on Mary give that one a kick up the arse and send her back to Britain, that english woman shouldn’t be allowed in Belfast.”
as far as im concerned Brenda is German.
Im a Republican in the Cromwellian school
so why shouldn’t she visit
we have to put up with her,
till we get a guillotine
It’s ‘funny’ how Pan-Nationalists come on here making sectarian and racist comments against Protestants, Unionists, Loyalists and everything British … yet claim to be the Most Oppressed People Ever and would be outraged if Unionists called them similar things.
Pan-Nationalists might want to re-read their comments and see if they would be acceptable if directed against Roman Catholics, Nationalists, Republicans.
P&J;, please quote or cut and paste the ‘sectarian and racist comments against Protestants’ if you believe that is what they are, instead of spouting boring accusations. Some people on here have voiced opposition to the idea of unionism, and monarchy, with a little bit of humour thrown in. but I doubt if there were many racist or sectarian comments regarding the religion of protestanism
Are we becoming more civilized here on Slugger?
There hasn’t been the same degree of naming calling against the British Monarch as there was on the last thread.
For a different view on england and its monarch from english people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6X1fVmneWs&feature=related
http://members.lycos.co.uk/moveagainstmon/
How do you think the (real) Brits would feel if the Irish Head of State interfered in their internal affairs and insisted on visiting Britain while Irish Republican had troops stationed in Liverpool?
a) St Patrick’s Day should be a public holiday here. No question.
b) If the Queen came to my town I wouldn’t bother going out to see her.
c) Mary McAleese’s comment is ill-mannered.
Where does that put me on the political spectrum?
Looking at it like that most likely they would be pissed off.
Sorry – who would be pissed off??
Apology – I realise cut the bull was replying to another question, not mine at No 17
I think its funny using auld lizzie windsor against unionists
Says more about you than them, Steve.
It will be cringe-making to see all the token taigs lining up for the Queen’s shilling in Armagh tomorrow. Íosa Críost,what have we sunk to? At least, there won’t be any Republicans there …….. sure there won’t? Will she be doling out the Maundy money in Iraq soon? And Mary McAleese is no longer the President of Ireland (remember the amendments to the Constitution)but the President of the Free State. And I’m a paid up member of the chip-on-the-shoulder brigade.
I was surprised none of the Loyal Orders and their accompanying bands particularly the ones which insist on carrying UVF and UDA flags and who are for ever stating that its their right to march the Queens highways have not had a parade or been officially represented at any of the functions she attended.
They could always ask her directly if she supported their right to walk down the Garvaghy, Lower Ormeau, Springfield and Albertbridge Roads where they are unwanted and unwelcome.
After all they keep introducing her into the parading disputes, nows the time ask her straight do you support us our not demanding to walk on your highways.
Hold onto your bowler hats and not your breath while your waiting on an answer.
There is no reason for the queen to visit Ireland. In fact, the reasons aqainst it are legion.
This Queen of England visitation agenda being pursued by Ahern and McAleese is really just a self-absorbed exercise in ego gratification through consorting with the world’s greatest celebrity by two mediocre politicians bereft of any real, constructive ideas for their nation
Never mind that hosting a state visit by Queen Elizabeth is an incredibly abject and servile thing for Ireland to do. All it will acheive is a tarnishing of Ireland’s nascent reputation as country that respects its history and knows how to guard its dignity as a sovereign state.
A state visit from Elizabeth to Ireland is no more needed by Ireland to get over its troubled history than an assault victim needs to invite her assailant for a nice homemade dinner to put the terrible experience behind her. “Gosh, maybe if I cook him some extra-specially delicious dishes for him and smile and fawn he consider giving back that jewelry he stole from me! Or maybe I’ll smile and laugh with him so much I’ll just forget all about my stolen property, as if it never existed!! Problem solved!!”
It’s all so dumb and pointless and misguided.
There is no reason for this visit at all!! It’s an international embarrassment for Ireland. I cringe with shame that this could happen anytime soon. Let Ireland be united before we consider such a thing.