“So he would be very well known..”
The 51-year-old man left critically ill after being attacked at his home yesterday evening was later named as a former Provisional IRA prisoner who, according to one report [not online], was convicted of a bomb attack on a bar. According to various reports, Frank McGreevey was assaulted at his home in Ross Street shortly after 1830 GMT on Saturday by at least two men. The Chairman of the Falls Road Residents’ Association, Robert McClenaghan, said “He is a former prisoner who served a life sentence. So he would be very well known.” The BBC report also notes Update It’s now a murder inquiry. And One man has been charged.
Police are treating the incident as attempted murder. A 20-year-old man is being questioned by police. Acting Detective Superintendent Jeff Smyth said they were following a definite line of inquiry.
…
“As such last evening in the middle of the night, members of the PSNI, under my direction, searched a number of houses in this community looking for a suspect,” he said. Detectives later said the 20-year-old man had handed himself in at Grosvenor Road police station.
And the RTÉ report has this
Local Sinn Fein Councillor, Tom Hartley, says residents of the area had phoned the police about some of the parties involved in the incident and they were unhappy about the slow response.
>>ncluding an Irish lad whose name I forget, whose only crime was having a chair leg in a carrier bag.<<
Mick, He was a Glaswegian. Rory has an interesting take on why he was executed, for executed he was. There was an IRA volunteer executed by the police in a flat somewhere in London whilst trying to surrender, perhaps you mix them up.
[i]“There is a third law – security forces never need a get out of gaol card as they never get charged.”[/i]
“For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil.”
Terrorist rulers are a teror to all and good but for evil
will pete baker be attributing the past indiscretions of EVERYONE who is attacked a factor or just Republicans…
and pete stop hiding behind alter-egos…
Mick how can you contrast one killing carried out by the Met to the 100`s the RUC were involved in?
Plenty of stuff on here from the usual suspects about swords and retribution but not a mention of the conveyor belt ‘justice’ that operated during the 1970s.
I don’t know if the man who was attacked was involved in the bombing of the Klondyke Bar on Sandy Row in January 1976 but I do know that in that era plenty of people were fitted up for crimes they didn’t commit. Who’s to say this man wasn’t one of them?
Whatever the case, this outrageous assault is absolutely unjustified and our thoughts should be with the victim.
Northsider, Republican stones,
the fact that the person who was attacked has a republican past is of interest to me and presumably to many of the people who post on this website.
I would far rather all the facts are presented and people make up their own mind as to their relevance.
Your remarks suggest over sensitivity and claims of bias probably have more to do with you not being comfortable with people who dont share your world view than with objective fact.
Twinbrook and others,
One of the rules on Slugger that make discussion between people who fundamentally disagree on this site is the golden rule: play the ball and not the man. Little else matters. Whataboutery is not disallowed, but where it is routinely engaged in we can see strategies for ‘disengagement’. This thread is replete with attacks on Pete, rather than on the substance of anything he’s actually written.
It has a distinct whiff of a Fair Game type stratagem about it: i.e. “May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed”.
Great Post Sammy-just a pity that you don’t find the time to condemn the attack on this man somewhere therein. Very telling, that. I do believe that posters like Harry Flashman and you are clutching at straws these days, desperately looking for some sort of smoking gun belonging to the Provos.
It is pitifully obvious that people like Harry Flashman and you miss taking the moral high ground now that the IRA campaign is over. Shame that all your mock outrage and hand-wringing doesn’t have the same impact these days…
An assault on anyone is a terrible offence, I only hope that those who seek to see the attackers of McGreevy imprisoned also hope to see the attackers of Robert McCartney face the same sentence. Sadly, I doubt they will or we would have seen those same people forced to hand themselves in. But what more can we expect of the child mudering psychopaths that are the republican movement, may they all rot in hell. When faced against an armed “enemy” they have shown what cowards they are, it was far easier for them to shoot an off duty police officer or soldier in the back of the head than it would have been to face one face to face.
Ditto, ‘Intelligencer (sic) insider’.
austin
what the feck are you talking about?
These are 2 seperate things 1) A man is attacked
2) The people who use this website should do so in a reasonable way.
I choose to comment on point 2) – that’s it.
p.s. Your suppostitions as to my attitude to the Provos are completly wrong.
Exactly, Sammy-you chose to comment on point 2)-think about it..
I’m a bit pissed at Pete’s presentation of this story too. The victim being well know in the area and the locals being pretty sure which of the otr Vallidays, who had been torturing them for days, did it shouldn’t be a cause for instant scepticism. As becomes clearer and clearer, this case shows how the cynical can cause a jaundiced eye and equivocation to be needlessly cast over crime from habitual street thugs when for some the victim isn’t worthy enough.
So lets look at the theories bandied about on this thread, local man who is fed up with local thugs confronts them in an attempt to get them to cease criminal activities is then followed home and beaten to within an inch of his life by the thugs. Or was it paramilitary beaten in revenge attack by young misunderstood boy? The intellect and neanderthal thinking of some posters on this thread must be questionable. This doesn’t happen in loyalist areas simply because the guns are still there, in order to have policing properly addressed loyalist guns must be removed and then rather than condemnation coming from one section of the community it would be, as it should be, condemned by all right thinking people.
Mark
I realise you’re arriving late on the scene and that there’s already been a lot of misdirection in-thread.
Being “a bit pissed” at my presentation of facts is one thing.
I tend not to reach for conclusions.
As for your comment – “when for some the victim isn’t worthy enough.”
As I said before, in response to this much earlier comment
This blogger has suggested nothing of the sort.
More generally,
If people are going to criticise what I’ve said, make sure I’ve actually said it first.
And if everyone could get back to the actual ball.. there might be a conversation worth having here.
But what more can we expect of the child mudering psychopaths that are the republican movement, may they all rot in hell. When faced against an armed “enemy” they have shown what cowards they are, it was far easier for them to shoot an off duty police officer or soldier in the back of the head than it would have been to face one face to face.
Posted by Intelligence Insider on Mar 17, 2008 @ 08:19 PM
Oh yes and the child murdering psychopaths on the unionist side undoubtedly hold the high ground.
so many plastic bullets …. so little time
So mick, baker can condone and vainly justify the attack on an innocent man…
why else did he mention his past?
will he now be mentioning the past of everyone else?
Now he tries to deny it made this point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One accusation too many by this T`internet warrior and a sign of how far down into the gutter this site has gone…
The crap posted from know alls who know fuck all on this thread is the prime reason why this once terrific website has went to the dogs.
Just like Harry Holland, a man was beaten to within an inch of his life because he dared to stand up to a gang of hoods, one of whom (who so many dicks on Slugger are keen to try and understand) has been on the run from Hydebank for two weeks.
Forget the politics wankers, this was a random attack that could have been visited on anyone.
Regardless of his past, although Bap McGreevy was a Provie and served 17-years for something he didn’t do, this was a sickening attack by a drugged up hood who was on the run from jail.
An attack that could have easily been visited upon any of the know all keyboard assholes so quick to condemn the victim, rather than the twat responsible. What next, are we to feel sorry for the bastard who beat Maurice McCracken with a hammer as he lay sleeping in his Malone Roard bed four years ago?
Wake up would yous, put politics and whataboutery aside for a second and see something how it really isl.
“whataboutery is not disallowed”
aslong as its not directed to Baker and any of the ludicrous assertions he made…
So baker is this man innocent, did he deserve this brutal attack and what has his past as a Republican got to do with this assault?
‘Your remarks suggest over sensitivity and claims of bias probably have more to do with you not being comfortable with people who dont share your world view than with objective fact.’
Sammy, the ‘world view’ remark….extremely immature. and as regards ‘objective fact’. that is precisely the point, you seem to have missed it.
“what has his past as a Republican got to do with this assault?”
Twinbrook
Direct your question to the Chairman of the Falls Road Residents’ Association, Robert McClenaghan, as quoted in the original post.
“Steve”, plastic bullets and lead bullets. A big difference! There were a few people hit my plastic or rubber bullets mistakenly but most of them were involved in riotous behaviour, catholic and protestant. You see, I make no difference Steve, criminality is criminality, no matter what the religion of the perpetrator is, I condemn each and every one of them. Can you do the same?
Indeed Pete, ‘presentation’ is the issue not the facts – you haven’t added to any or provided much. You admitted you approached the murder with jaundice (no matter how late I joined, you laid that down early).
Seriously, it does read like – why would he have got beaten to death…fill in your own blanks. Either I and others are reading it wrong, you phrased it badly or that’s what you did put out there.
If you’d like to clarify, maybe starting with why you picked that pointless top line it might help?
Once again the red mist descends. The term hierarchy of victims springs to mind when reading some of the drivel posted on this site. To quote thathcher, ‘crime is crime is crime is crime’; who can argue that this man wasn’t a victim of crime? How can this statelet have any semblance of a peaceful future if bigotry prevents justice. The past of a victim of crime matters not a jot if they are a victim, I await a post saying all prostitutes can expect to be rape victims next. How can people preach peace and harmony but not deliver justice? The camels back must be close to breaking point as far as policing goes in nationalist areas, people need results not excuses for criminal activity.
Sorry – ‘attempted murder’. Only Slugger has killed anything – the real story.
Pete, I’m prepared to give you the benefit of the dobut on this because of a total lack of understanding.
The facts are a fella is on a life support machine because he dared to stand up to a gang of hoods (one of whom had been on the run from jail for two weeks). That is the only reason why he was beaten, almost to death. His background, and previous convictions have no bearing on the incident.
What is the difference between this attack and that on Maurice McCracken, or murder of Harry Holland? Because it seems to me that in your eyes there is a clear heirarchy of victims, depending on what estate they happened to be born into.
I want to see the thugs that murdered Robert McCartnet (and the ones who help cover it up) get the justice they deserve. I have NO FAITH that will happen in the courts of the north. I have NO FAITH in the PSNI to put them away. IT IS TAINTED BY POLITICS.
I want to see the thugs that brutally attacked Frank McGreevey get the justice they deserve. I HAVE NO FAITH they will get it in the courts of the north especially given that THEY HAD ALREADY BEEN THRU THAT SYSTEM AND ESCAPED FROM IT, only to perpetrate the horrific attacks (YES PLURAL) of this weekend. I have NO FAITH in the PSNI to put them away. IT IS TAINTED, by politics or incompetence, who knows?
And for those who think that there’s some sort of political line to be drawn over justice and some victims are better than others or some criminals are better than others – you make me sick.
So I have been issued with traffic tickets in the past….
will this be any justification if I have the misfortune to be assaulted by for example, someone with roadrage!!!!
NO.
Unless I`m Republican!
Mark
If your problem is with those who filled in blanks in the narrative, then address your complaints to those who did.
So far the majority of blank-fillers is with those who think that, “Because it seems to me that in your eyes there is a clear heirarchy of victims, depending on what estate they happened to be born into.”
I’ll post this link again, please read it.
Pete, WTF those that have to do with anything?
You had a go at the victim here because he happened to be an ex-republican prisoner. This never would have happened with the case of Maurice McCracken, who comes from the Malone Road and who exactly the same thing happened to (beaten to within a inch of his life by a scumbag hood for no reason).
You have proven yourself to be either a snob or a bigot, I’ll leave it up to everyone else to decide.
“You had a go at the victim here because he happened to be an ex-republican prisoner.”
Presumably you mean in the same that Robert McClenaghan did.
“You have proven yourself to be either a snob or a bigot..”
Ah, choices, choices..
When blogs go wrong…
Pete,
Keep up the good work and ignore the above remarks. You have simulated a good debate – though perhaps it has now strayed off topic. As this is a political website details you would be remiss if not reporting all the facts.
Agh,
If a person in Non Iron is attacked – one of the first questions that go through peoples minds is whether he is a catholic or a protestant. The religion of the person is often reported in the media – this does not mean that the person DESERVED to be attacked because of his religion but rather that it might be a factor in explaining why. Similarly with the above case.
whether his background was a factor in the attack remains to be seen.
Think about it.
There’s nothing like a great big internet shitstorm.
Before this thread is closed, I’m curious about one remark made by Mick. He says this thread had the potential for a good discussion of the story, rather than ad hominem attacks.
Given the spin put on the story by the original blogger – what other path were we meant to take?
Obviously there is an organised attempt to hound Baker off this site. As a long time reader of this site I can remember the Sinn Fein blogger team doing the same to Shilliday and I guess if you get Pete you guys will move on to Turgon.
I honestly think that the guys provo past might be a red herring. The kinds of animal that hang around street corners care nought for politics or the past. Religion means little to them other an an excuse to riot when the silly season starts.
I do question Republican attitudes to policing, why do they expect a level of service that no other part of the UK sees? If the PSNI patrol the area and attempt to tackle crime they are called in to question for being “Heavy Handed” yet when they do any less they are accused of leaving an area to rot. The cops can’t win either way.
Muad’Dib,
red herring or not, and it does NOW look like that, it was correctly included.
Although republican light ( was never too keen on the killing bit ) myself if this place is dominated by poeple launching apparently politically organised attacks from whatever source (effectively censorship by public abuse )then I’m sure many others like me will feck off elsewhere.
“effectively censorship by public abuse ”
Hmmm…wouldn’t be the first time.
I do question Republican attitudes to policing, why do they expect a level of service that no other part of the UK sees? If the PSNI patrol the area and attempt to tackle crime they are called in to question for being “Heavy Handed” yet when they do any less they are accused of leaving an area to rot. The cops can’t win either way.
Posted by Muad’Dib on Mar 18, 2008 @ 09:40 AM
Because they were promissed a level of service that would be better than what they had, clearly a bald faced lie.
Well Steve welcome to the life in the modern United Kingdom, it sucked but it’s no better any where else. Show me a country where the citizens are happy with the cops.
Heard elsewhere that his life support machine has been turned off and that his family have donated his organs.
Candle lit vigil at Ross Road(facing the Falls Swim Centre) at 7.30 tonight.
Slan go foill,Proinsias RIP
So when someone points out the obvious, the despicable assertion by baker that in some way this man (now dead) deserved what he got because of his Republican past…..
its now a conspiracy…
My condolences to the family of this innocent man.
He’s been brain dead since yesterday.
I’m very sorry to hear it.
Muad’Dib, maybe Steve means the police are still eating babies.
But yes, welcome to normalization, the crime clear-up rate is typically abysmal.
Desperately sad news about Bap who lost his life trying to better his community.
We in Canada are pretty happy with our police. Though we actually have a world class police force instead of just claiming to have one
I really think that this thread should be closed following the sad news of Mr McGreevy’s death. I find it disgusting that Pete Baker stooped so low in his tawdry insinuations whilst this man was losing his fight for life, after being bludgeoned over 60 times by a notorious hood.
This murder is truly a sorry indictment on our society and it ill-behoves Slugger to plummet new depths akin to the worst excesses of the tabloid media.
Murder probe as attacked man dies
“So he would be very well known.”
Pete, I don’t see why you headlined McClenaghan’s throw away remark rather than focus on the brutal attack.
Austin,
the pople who have plumbed new depths are those that focussed on the reasonable presentation of facts – the tabloid lines came from those attacking Pete Baker – this has caused the distraction from the main issue – and seemed to be an attempt to make a narrow political point. The main isssue being that there has been a tragic loss of life as a result of an unprovoked attack on an innocenct man.