Normalisation and the politics of protest
Garibaldy in the comments on this thread noted how the politics of protest are not in the interests of the Stormont parties wedded firmly to political office. Though it isn’t completely off the Irish agenda as the recent protest against a proposed English royal visit shows. (discussed on RTE’s Seoige and O’Shea below)
With normalisation of British influence in the 6 counties so progressed that a visit by Elizabeth Windsor can be announced in advance for the first time in 50 years, street protest refuses to go away as éirígí will be on the streets of Armagh to voice opposition on Holy Thursday (March 20).
If Willowfield has turned – surely the Union cannot be safe?
Is this the usual spelling with 2 LLs ?
aye alright now Idont mind calling him Lord but thats where Idraw the line
He’s been kidnapped and sent to an education camp in the Donegal hills and taught by beardy men with waistcoats.
Civility costs nothing.
no sinn fein posters to come on a spin away their party’s lack of effort to protest?
yes joe but a bit of craic is priceless, lighten up its only a bit of banter
yes joe but a bit of craic is priceless, lighten up its only a bit of banter
I’d like to hope so, ctb, but, alas, I think some take it seriously. It’s them I’m referring to.
“The tricolour predates the partition of this country, and represents all the people of Ireland, though some choose to ignore this
No it doesn’t as you very well know……..”
I’m afaid it does Democratic.
Thomas Francis Meagher is said to have flown the first Irish tricolour from the Wolfe Tone Club on March 7th 1848 in Waterford.
“The tricolour predates the partition of this country, and represents all the people of Ireland, though some choose to ignore this
No it doesn’t as you very well know……..”
I’m afaid it does Democratic.
Thomas Francis Meagher is said to have flown the first Irish tricolour from the Wolfe Tone Club on March 7th 1848 in Waterford.”
So this means that the Tri-Colour represents me how exactly?
As another poster pointed out – The Union Flag contains the Cross of Saint Patrick so does that mean that……..
Actually just realised that we may have misunderstood each other Greagoir – my original point was regarding RepublicanStones claim that the Tri-colour represented everyone in Ireland not the date of first sighting.
Thre have been two real queens on this site all day. The two with the shamrocks painted on their faces. They’re real queens in my eyes
I have to say I don’t think the protest is the most effective way to get across a socialist message, but it will get them on the TV and thus achieve its agitational purpose, so I can understand the attraction of such a protest.
What I find more difficult to understand is Rory’s attitude. Perhaps his tongue is firmly in his cheek, but if not it looks a lot like an overreaction based on kneejerk hostility to anyone attacking his chosen party line from a similar point of view.
My tongue is most certainly not in my cheek when I comment upon this, Garibaldy. Nor do I and nor have I ever before expressed or indeed felt any antipathy towards éirigí. Indeed although I feel that both Republican Sinn Féin and the 32 County Sovereignty Movement are both in grave political error and that the IRSP is simply not to be trusted that it is healthy that there appear a left Republican pressure group that offers a critique of Sinn Féin in office.
My abhorrence is of the language employed. It is that if one demeans and belittles one’s enemy and somehow manages to win out over them what has been defeated? An enemy that you yourself have determined is mean and little. Not much of a victory.
Surely any time spent in the school playground would have acquainted anyone with the petulant cowardice and pettiness of spirit that is the hallmark of the name-callers.
It is best for those who engage in politics to ever speak in the formal language of diplomacy and even when at war to temper their public statements to the terse recitation of the facts. At one time IRPB press statements were a model for such literary discipline.
‘Any reason why they can’t Republicanstones – Irish only symbols allowed is it? ‘
I would like to know why they felt the need to fly the union jack on St Patricks day, knowing the main celebration was being held at custom house square. I have been to custom house square several other times and never noticed the union jack flying.
So Im just wondering why did they put it up especially for St Patricks day. Good old fashioned siege mentality or something else?
Gari,
éirígí are a Socialist Republican party. You should expect Republicanism along with the Socialism.
Rory,
I also used the name Elizabeth Windsor along with the 6 counties and 32 counties in my blog. I’m a Republican in both senses of the word and have no respect for monarchy or the British state’s role in Ireland. It’s a deeply held ideology that I don’t feel any reason to hide, that would be dishonesty. If I had wanted to be abusive I could have found terms that really were.
Mark,
That’s fair enough. As far as I’m concerned the two are the same. Not of course that we might think they mean the same thing
Rory,
That’s fair enough. However, the language of politics is often filled with cut and thrust. And I can think of worse examples of belittling opponents than this one. Personally, I’ve always been a fan of referring to all monarchs by their names rather than their titles.
I remember when the royal family came up in two conversations once when I was in Glasgow and another time when I was in Newcastle.
Glaswegians refered to her in unflattering terms such as “Pissy Lizzy” and the Geordies strangely refered to her as the “oul hag in Bucky palace The queen of the south”.
She does’nt seem to get much respect over there either.
Gari,
“Not of course that we might think they mean the same thing
”
Not sure about that, never seen any reason to assume we disagree on very much of substance than tactics.
I just could’nt resist this,
Mrs Windsor
And here’s to you, Mrs. Windsor,
Ulster loves you more than you will know.
God bless you, please Mrs. Windsor.
Heaven holds a place for those, who lived tax free on high pay,
Hey, hey, hey
We’d like to know a little bit about your for our files
We’d like you to see how we live our lives.
Look around you all you see are sympathetic eyes,
Stroll around the grounds until you feel at home.
And here’s to you, Mrs. Windsor,
Ulster loves you more than you will know.
God bless you, please Mrs. Windsor.
Heaven holds a place for those, who lived tax free on high pay,
Hey, hey, hey
Hide in the hiding place Buckingham Palace where no one ever goes.
Put it in your pantry with your cupcakes.
It’s a little secret just the Windsors affair.
Most of all you’ve got to hide it from the kids.
Koo-koo-ka-choo, Mrs. Windsor,
Ulster loves you more than you will know.
God bless you, please Mrs. Windsor.
Heaven holds a place for those, who call you Queen, Mrs Windsor or just Lizzy,
Hey, hey, hey
Sitting on a sofa thinking about Ireland this afternoon.
Your visit’s causing a debate.
Laugh about it, shout about it
When you’ve got to choose
Every way you look at this you lose.
Where have you gone, Ian Paisley o,
Our Ulster turns it’s lonely eyes to you.
What’s that you say, Mrs. Windsor.
Irate Ian has left and gone away,
Hey hey hey.
“calling Pope Benedict “Ratzinger” as some idiot poster did on these forums the other day”.
Actually he is often called Nazinger or Pope Nazzi !!
only by sectarian bigots anne, only by sectarian bigots.
really not only by sectarian bigots. By Italians. I know. I live in Italy! And many Italians can’t stand his reactionary views- particularly young people.
right so Italians are incapable of being seactrian bigots. not only that but it seem you have talked to every single Italian too. you sure do get around.
No. Like lots of other people I read Italian papers, watch Italian TV, am in contact with students and surf the net. Being reasonably well informed on my part does not mean “having talked to every single Italian too”. I said many (not every single)Italians are annoyed by his reactionary views. As they are often not pleased with his attempted ( usually successful) interference with the Italian parliament, laws etc.they invented the nicknames.
I’m sorry you can’t listen to another point of view without accusing me and many Italians of being a sectarian bigot – which speaking for myself is neither true nor justified.
‘really not only by sectarian bigots. By Italians..’
it seems you forget what you write. and just because you share someones view, does not mean they aren’t a bigot.
Irony is not your strong point!
irony is not your strong point
*but I myself care little for titles no matter what they are and no matter who they are bestowed upon.*
Is that a universal dislike or only with regard to British titles ctb? Would you address the president of Ireland as “Mary”, former president Clinton as “Billy Jeff”, your local parish priest as “Mister” or the consultant surgeon about to perform your triple bypass surgery as “Hi, you”?
As joe says above courtesy really costs nothing, being an oaf merely demeans oneself.
Rory would prove himself be the man of style that I have always thought him to be if he did indeed take HM’s dainty hand with a slight bow as he showed her the correct way to place her fine white neck on the chopping block, no doubt he would even proffer a silken cushion, not like those French bumpkins who martyred the fair Marie Antoinette.
RebelPebbles,
re. Sectarianism.
I’m not sure that because someone is anti-catholic ( or protestant ) means they are a sectarian bigot provided they have arrived at that position from observing the facts and not because they are adherents to another sect which competes with it for theological truth or reccruits.
I’m not too keen on the catholic church because of their birth control policy and its impact on the 3rd world but dont consider myself sectarian as I dont like Ballymena style stuff either.
Re. the qaurefellah in the vatican – as he was a member of hitler youth ( even if only for 5 minutes and under duress ) then I’m afraid a bit of teasing is to be welcomed.
It may be just me and my age, but in the sexist world we live in, to suggest that a female ( named ) poster gets around a bit may give the impression of a rather catholic view on female sexuality.
Harry its a universal dislike with a slight caveat added. If I met a surgeon Iwould him/her their first name and ask them if they would not mnid being addressed using their name.
I speak to clergy on first name terms.
Believe it most people would rather be addressed by their name as opposed a title.
Would you call your solicitor by his /her name or call or address them using the term solicitor or lawyer vwho ever.
I would usually refer to my doctor by his first name and I have met Mary Robinson and when speaking to her, I did this on first name terms.
How would you address MLA’s or indeed ministers by their first names or as MLA or minister who ever.
That to me is not being an oaf most titles are well over played.
Ahhh but theres a slight difference Harry.
Presidents are elected, Doctors earn their titles, and priests….. well even they studied and worked to get where they are (à la the bloke from Reggie Perrin).
The british monarch got the job through an accident of birth. She desevres no more or less respect than any other british citizen (even if one finds the manner in which her family attained its wealth distasteful). As a republican I could not address her as “your majesty” – she has done nothing to merit the title. She is an aging lady with loads of cash. She deserves the same respect as anybody else.
Mrs Windsor it is.
Ah Mrs Windsor, aka Mrs Saxe Coburg Gotha, aka Queen of England, Queen of Scotland, Queen of Canada, Queen of Barbados, Queen of Kenya, etc…etc…glorious god fearing regina, pure and devine, reign forever over her many minions and subjects….. what a title, what a handle, what a woman!
However, go raibh mile maith agat for the Englishman Thomas Paine who awakened the world from such ideological slumber of slavery!
How do you refer to Mr. Ratzinger yourself Cut The Bull – if I may ask? Would you display piety to him perchance? I’m interested…..
Yeah no problem you can ask.
I would call him the head of the catholic church.
If speaking to him directly I would ask him would he mind if I spoke to him on first name terms, and to be honest, I dont think he would have a big problem with that.
I know a lot of people who attennded and some who still attend Irish language schools. All of those schools have a policy that students refer to teachers on a first name basis.
It actually generates respect and does away with the nonsense of Miss or Sir, Master and such titles.
Fair enough Cut The Bull – fair play to you.
Talking about titles I remember when I was at primary school. We had a male teacher called Bates now you can imagine the fun and embarrasment that this created.
When he was refered to as Master Bates. All the pupils including myself had no problem at all using his title.
I think this in a small way heps to prove that titles are as well being left to the side.