Edwin stumbles
Culture Minister, Edwin Poots, has admitted to refusing to attend every Irish language event he has been invited to since taking office on the grounds that he was “not a speaker of Irish.”
However, his lack of knowledge of the “wee dafty wean” lingo has not prevented him from attending five Ulster Scots events in his time as Minister. Before the Chinese, Polish and other ethnic minority groups rip up their glossy invites to the Culture Minister, his spokesperson did inform the Irish News that he decides “on each event as it comes in.”
In which case, I think we can safely conclude, it’s a case of “No Irish Need Apply.”
Oilibhear,
I have to say I was quite surprised to hear that there ‘would be’ an Irish language act as a result of St. Andrews and I have no doubt you have read accurately the British government’s intention. As to the others I think you go to far.
But I does surprise me that SF still maintain that somehow there will be an ILA despite the fact that it is a mathematical impossibilty given the demographics of Northern Ireland.
I believe SF should go back to the British and discuss specific and individual legislation regarding the language, minus the ILA label, which is what the unionists specifically oppose in itself.
I think that unionists would find it difficult to argue againist very specific aspects.
RG Cuan,
I feel sorry for people like yourself who are interested in Ulster-Scots speech.
If you were trying to attract a few pounds to put together a project on Ulster-Scots speech you could well be struggling and would be competing againist a host of perhaps more attractive non-language based projects.
But the fact the the Ulster-Scots agency is part of the ‘language body’ is quite baffling, how do they justify all these events under their remitt? Why are they unquestioned.
But perhaps there it is a reflection of what many unionist believe the work of say Foras na Gaeilge involves? Perhaps it is thought that FnaG promote an identity, dance, music etc.
W’eel hae tae fire tigether a wee beggin form a gie a try til fin oot fur oorsels.
RG
You’ve forgotten the Orange Order song cd which was part funded by the Ulster Scots Agency. Not a word of Ulster Scots on it – it was a cultural thing you see.
The Irish Language has often been accused of being ‘political’ – unfairly so in my judgement – but its worst excesses have not come close to the politicisation of the ‘Ulster Scot Language and Culture’ by the DUP.
“Keep the Irish language out of Northern Ireland”
Been mulling about that bizarre statement ever since he said it on the tele.
He must know that the Irish language is “in” Northern Ireland and has been for centuries. The only possible spin you can take on this is that it was a naked appeal to the percieved mindset of the Unionist voter.
I compare this sort of language with that used on race in the bad old days. To get rid of racist attitudes you first eliminate the language of Supremacist thought and maybe a generation later the thought itself is eliminated.
‘The Irish Language has often been accused of being ‘political’ – unfairly so in my judgement – but its worst excesses have not come close to the politicisation of the ‘Ulster Scot Language and Culture’ by the DUP. ‘
Riddle me this, OILibhear – exactly which loyalist paramilitary grouping did their sloganising in Ulster-Scots? So all the ‘tiocfaidh ár lá’-ing of the ’80s and ’90s has come back to bite the Irish language brigade on the bum – what a shame. Still, maybe some day ‘tiocfaidh bhur lá’ – as Ms Nic An Bhaird would have it, no doubt.
Perhaps you need to give the NSMC Language Body a little more time, RGC.
Great links Nevin and Dewi!
The real shame is that though I would speak these words(well maestly, as sum wur a guid bit yokely) i have to slow right down to enable me to read. So unfamiliar am I to seeing the words that I speak wrote down thus.
Oh and Dewi i share yourr incredulity over how being hard on the native language is a political plus for Unionist politicians.
The excuse that he doesn’t understand Irish just doesn’t hold any water. I’m sure his role means that he has been invited to some events hosted by minority ethnic groups – has he rejected these on similar grounds or would that be seen as racism?
He knows rightly that he is just expected to turn up as a courtesy – no one will speak him only in Irish to him and no one is going to force him to become a Gaeligeoir.
It just about being treated fairly and equally.
Eeeksi-peeksi fae all!
Bratash cash frae takkin shite!
Sammy, I have only just stopped laughing at that. Why, on why can the people who would promote this abomination of childish dialect not learn proper Scots Gaelic if they wish to maintain the cultural connection with Scotland.
Edwin would then find that he was well able to communicate i n-gaelige at any Irish event to which he was invited. As with traditional music in the two countries, there are only superficial differences in the native languages.
There is no evidence, Star, of Ulster Scots slogans being used by loyalist paramilitaries. There is plenty of evidence, however, of Orange Order members engaging in acts of terror when swapping the sash their fathers wore for balaclavas and Orange halls for romper rooms.
And this is the same order, which never disciplined its paramilitary members, which is in the receipt of funds to finance English language party songs from the Ulster Scot wing of the North South LANGUAGE body.
Could you imagine trying to explain Ulster Scots to a member of the UDA.
“Duuhhhhhhhhh, and whats that mean, how much will we make on it and can it get you high”
Tak Ulster-scots fae big dafty big yins
Read as
Ulster Scots calsses for Loyalist Paramilitaries
Could you imagine trying to explain Ulster Scots to a member of the UDA.
“Duuhhhhhhhhh, and whats that mean, how much will we make on it and can it get you high”
Posted by cut the bull on Mar 05, 2008 @ 03:51 PM
Really – comments like this cement bad feeling on both sides don’t they….what’s the point? – Shouldn’t you be revising a pop song with anti-Unionist drivel lyrics or something Cut The Bull -I mean – that really never gets boring – even after months and months – and you are so good at it too…….
Some nationalist/Alliance commentators really are showing themselves up here. The DUPesque ignorant and patently unfunny attacks are tedious to say the least.
On a positive note this is an example of how Scots is used in Glasgow. It is quite humorous, and details the angst felt from moving into the far flunf schemes(housing estates) on Glasgow’s periphery.
http://www.roblightbody.com/scotland/scotlandjeely.htm
Really – comments like this cement bad feeling on both sides don’t they….what’s the point? – Shouldn’t you be revising a pop song with anti-Unionist drivel lyrics or something Cut The Bull -I mean – that really never gets boring – even after months and months – and you are so good at it too…….
OOOhhh I seemed to have hit raw nerve I dont see how making hard hitting remarks about Gangsters who ripped off Loyalist Communities and are continuing to murder kids with Loyalist blues is cementing bad feeling with any one other than those cretans which the remarks are aimed at.
I’m glad you seem to enjoy the songs going on for months and hopefully contiuing, for a long time to come. By the way they are not all anti unionist if truth be told. Perception can be a dangerous thing reality is usually different though,
Un a true democracy people have a right to express their views and sing until their hearts are content. Any way all the best Democratic or is that Democratic Unionist, just asking.
“The Clydeside Reds huv goat me wi’ a breid-an-jeely bomb.”
Funny Tony
No raw nerve hit Cut the Bull I promise – I just don’t see what relevance your schoolyard level remarks have to any debate. Trying to link Ulster-Scots with the preserve of Loyalist terrorists in such a way is akin to me reminding you of the eejit that blathered on about “Every word spoken in Irish is another bullet fired in the cause of Irish freedom” – a certain Mr Morrision wasn’t it?
However I do know people involved in Ulster Scots activities and contrary to what you may think they are neither Loyalist paramilitaries nor retarded morons! The fact that people on this thread laugh and jibe about Ulster Scots is fine – but when the same people throw a wobbler when the other side don’t treat Gaelic with the respect it deserves (note my langugage please)then I find my sympathy in short supply….
P.S. – Can’t wait to see some new musical material – those ditties are as fresh now as they were 6 months ago I tell you…..
Dewi
Reminded me of the night in the Clutha, ye remember the poet reading in Scots. Ye canny help bit smile.
And personal stuff aside Democratic is right.
I’ve never made it through the first verse of one of ctb’s ditties without wanting to tear my eyes from my head. You might have some very valid points but fella, c’mon, those adaptations, brutal…still, each to their own,
Mr Poots as Culture Minister….we may as well appoint Alex Higgins as the Minister for Health ffs. Most depressing. I wonder if he was invited to a Chinese or Polish cultural celebration would he turn it down as he didn’t speak the language. Currently vying with Ms Ruane for the ministerial wooden spoon.
Could you imagine trying to explain Ulster Scots to a member of the UDA.
On the (admittedly UVF controlled) “Gae Lairn” centre on the Newtownards Road, they used to have to explain that was Ulster Scots for Go Learn. Better than Ballybeen, where Castlereagh Council’s bilingual street signs were removed by Loyalists who tought they were in Irish.
Some nationalist/Alliance commentators really are showing themselves up here.
Get off your high horse, Eoghan. I am all in favour of preserving and promoting our Scots and Scots influenced dialects; and while I’ll never be converted to Scottish country dancing, if that’s your thing, go for it (and get state funding on the same basis as any other community arts group). But please don’t make me accept the MOPE nonsense promoted by the Boord O Leid and various Unionist politicians. It’s motivated by resentment of the Irish language and a desire for ever more state cash. If the Taigs have to have a special secret language, then the Prods have to have one too. What a load of shite. As they used to sing when Mandelson was colonial governor:
Mandy, Mandy, give us a language do,
The Fenians have one, so we have to have one too
It might be invented,
But our confidence is not dented,
That parity of esteem and equality schemes mean that we can get cash for poo!
Oh, and you do realise that some of the posters slagging off the Ulster Scots gravy train are Unionists, don’t you.
Of course Sammy, but isn’t ignorance supposed to be a Unionist preserve?
And you seem to be attacking motive here for some Unionists, fair do’s. Doesn’t really give a pass for all the preceding childish ignorance though.
Democratic you must only read some of the posts or you would know that I was responding to a Point made in another post by OILibhear which read “There is no evidence, Star, of Ulster Scots slogans being used by loyalist paramilitaries”.
Believe it or not I too know people who partake in Ulster Scots events and I fully respect their right to do so. Although i think the Ulster Scots spekaers should have articulate spokes persons which they sadly seem to lack and I think this does their cause an imeasureable amount of damage.
Lord Laird is a prime example of this.
I was not lumping Ulster scots speakers in with Loyalist Paramilitaries but I was following on with a question asking people to imagine trying to explain Ulster Scots to a UDA man, and the rest is history
“Mandy, Mandy, give us a language do,”
Have you been browsing too many PRM websites, Sammy?
Why can’t you adopt a more civilised approach like Eoghan?
Good grief. I’m having trouble typing here, I’m in fits of laughter. Aye and you’re right so I’ll just keep singing mind your eyes now leave them alone.
only in this country would a christian fundamentalist idiot be given a position of responsibility….
and to think we came from Monkeys!!!
cut the bull and Sammy Morse
Just getting to read the thread for the first time since early morn. Enjoying the Slugger poetry!
FD
Surely a case of chilling out? One would think you were Lord Laird’s taxi driver the way you chose to seek offence there….
I’ve already made clear I support the promotion of Ulster Scots culture, though remain more than sceptical about the language campaign.
On the actual point of the thread, glad to see you’ve conceded that it’s strange (unacceptable?) for a Culture Minister to put forward lame excuses for avoiding a significant cultural grouping like the Irish language community.
Edwin Putz
Na Ceithearna Coille are calling the Poots the Anti-Culture Minister, quite apt.
http://www.ceithearnacoille.com/page1/page1.html
Sorry Sammy you got one fact wrong, Gae Lairn is a UDA front, sorry I mean community organisation, Frankie Gallaghers employers IIRC. I think the Black Necks are keep themselves restricted to Alternatives and EPIC these days.
Frankie Gallagher, Gae Lairn resettlement project: “Most of the prisoners I know actively work within the community”
The biggest irony of this thread is that by falsey aligning Ulster Scots with the term “Wee dafties,” Chris Donnely has revealed who the real manipulator and discriminator is.
The biggest irony of this thread is that by falsey aligning Ulster Scots with the term “Wee dafties,” Chris Donnely has revealed who the real manipulator and discriminator is.
Ouch! Who’s that caped crusader in ‘Outsider’ disguise? Is it a bird? Is it a plane???
DRAT! And to think I’d a gotten away with it, if it wasn’t for you pesky kids…..
So Edwin avoids Irish language events because he doesn’t understand the language? But I am sure I have seen him attend some English language events, and lets face it, his English isn’t so hot either.
Chris
Its not the first time we crossed swords, it seems that you are still a sock puppet pushing a warped and distorted Republican agenda.
OUTSIDER
You might want to look at your facts.
The term ‘dafty’ can be found in the Hamely Tongue, which, by the way, is spoken by all sides of the community here and in Scotland.
And there’s no hidden agenda in highlighting that Pootsie doesn’t like attending Irish Gaelic events, it’s just the sad truth.
I don’t even speak a couple of fuck alls, but that won’t keep me from an event in Irish… that’s why they have the wee headsets, for those like myself that don’t predicate attendance on complete understanding. If I did that, how could I ever go to Stormont???
Slan, Ben
Poots won’t show up at an Irish language event because he is afraid they will call him “big ears” and he wont know what the fuck is going on.
Exactly what is the Unionist community afraid of here? I drive to the south now and again, I have no fuckin idea what the words on the bottom of the road signs mean, I cant even pronounce them.
It doesnt bother me, because I know the inclusion of the Irish language wont change my life one bit. Maybe Unionists believe their heads will explode if they try to pronounce an Irish word. Wouldn’t surprise me, considering they voted for some half wit who thinks the earth was formed 6000 years ago in exactly 7 days.
Sorry if I man-played Mr Poots in the last post, but he does have big ears.
Funny story, my dad is quite the wee loyalist. He always called me mucker. After watching the great Irish made movie Man About Dog I was able to tell him about the origins of mucker. He calls me son now.
Who would’ve thought we had we had such a wealth of comedic talent amongst our Nationalists/Irish language enthusiasts (the two strains seem to be very much hand in glove here)- really I’m sure various sides have been splitting up & down the country with their hilarious takes on Ulster Scots, it’s relationship with Loyalist paramilitaries and the size of Edwin Poots ears…..remind me again of why Unionists are expected to show respect to your needs again in the face of such tirades…..oh yeah because you represent such a large and non-politcal cross-section of the community!
Ok Democratic – point taken. But on a serious point does Edwin’s stance meet with your approval?
Hi Dewi,
IMHO No – Edwin Poots stance on non-attendance to Irish Language events is petty and out of line with his station of office – I can’t honestly picture any Unionist being offended by his presence in a ministerial role. I don’t know what gallery he is playing to with this….be different perhaps if such events contained a strong Republican slant or suchlike – I would guess (and hope) that they don’t!
)- really I’m sure various sides have been splitting up & down the country with their hilarious takes on Ulster Scots…remind me again of why Unionists are expected to show respect to your needs again in the face of such tirades.
Democratic
Personally, my anger would be directed at those who are pushing this dialect as a central tenet of my cultural identity. I am not a Irish language zealot by any means but it is a rich cultural heritage (prose/poetry/verse etc) which all traditions on the island have contributed to at some stage. If, however, Irish was no more than the transcription of a Jackie Healy-Rae monologue and somebody was trying to foist it upon me as my cultural legacy I would be embarrassed. Hence derisive attitudes to the Ulster Scots ‘language’ (as opposed to Ulster -Scots culture) are not limited to nationalism.
Ok Dec – you have told me how you would feel – if you were in someone elses shoes – but isn’t that just the problem – you aren’t – and if you want respect for your baggage then you must give it in return – regardless of whether you like it or see the value in it….this really should be self-apparent by now – especially from those pushing Irish Gaelic….
Democratic,
Just to point out that a number of Irish speakers here have expressed a keen interest and concern with ulster-scots speech.
Indeed, in real life, it has been my experience that those who take a real interest in Ulster-Scots speech are as likely to be nationalists as unionists.
Indeed a large proportion of those whose speech could be described as Ulster-Scots are Catholics.
With regards to Poots, he is the culture minister but has indicated publically that he lists ‘keeping the Irish language out of Northern Ireland’ as an achievement.
I think that most of us, English and Irish speakers, nationalists and unionists could agree that this level of partisan behaviour is a bit much from a government minister.
“I don’t know what gallery he is playing to with this….”
I dont know either, but I believe it is quite small and strongly considering voting for Jim Allister.
Democratic
We’ll have to disagree. Apples and Oranges…
I’ll afford equal respects to French/Polish/Inuit/Canton etc. I’ll afford Scottish Dancing the same respect I give to Irish Dancing. I’ll afford Rabbie Burns the same respect I give to Art McCumhaidh (hope I’ve spelt that correctly, Mick -it’s been a while).
I’ll afford the Ulster Scots dialect the same respect I’d afford the South Armagh vernacular.
“I’ll afford the Ulster Scots dialect the same respect I’d afford the South Armagh vernacular.”
Posted by Dec on Mar
Absolutely fine Dec – but please don’t like some others throw a wobbly when you feel the other side aren’t treating Irish Gaelic with the respect you feel it deserves in return…..
Democratic
I’ll say it one last time…Apples and Oranges.
I have religiously (sorry, studiously) read every one of these comments and it is fascinating to be appraised of a current selection of thinking among literate people across the ? divide in Norn Iron (I don’t live there). It can’t be a racial division as you can hardly call yourself some flavour of Scottish if your ancestors have lived in Ireland for the last 300 Years (during 220 of which it was an unpartitioned country); is it really a religious one when few of either side attend any church any more, and lets face it, if you did it would be the same mythical god you would all be toadying up to. I think there’s more commonality among you than might be immediately obvious and you will develop more mature and intelligent politicians to help as time passes.
My tuppence worth would be that the infantile Ulster Scots should be as much an embarrassment to the Unionist community as a 50 year obsession with the most sickeningly twee of American country music should be to the rest of Ireland. There are better cultural interests than these for anyone who wishes to pursue them in both Scotland and Ireland.
If Poots had the wit or the social grace to make some token gestures to the 40% of the population he is supposed to represent then he would find he was listening to a language very similar to Scots Gaelic.