McCord and the sash his father wore…
JUSTICE campaiger Raymond McCord – who son was murdered by a UVF gang that included police informers - last night became the first unionist to address a Sinn Fein ard fheis. Wearing his father’s Orange Order sash, McCord told republicans that whereas Gerry Adams had kept to his promise to raise the case of McCord’s son in Downing Street, unionist MP Jeffrey Donaldson failed to name the killers in Parliament. The News Letter reported that Mr Donaldson said he pledged to name the killers if Mr MrCord, who received a loyalist death threat a few days ago, brought inconclusive evidence – but that it never came. That’s certainly never stopped members of Mr Donaldson’s former or current parties before. Mr Donaldson said Mr McCord should “reflect on his new bedfellows and look at the record of the IRA for murder and destruction and ask himself: ‘Are these the people best able to deal with the circumstances surrounding the murder of his son?’” The answer could well be ‘yes’, because there is an almost complete lack of interest amongst unionist politicians about loyalist violence against Protestants. In fact, since the IRA ceasefire, by far the biggest terrorist threat to Protestants has been loyalist paramilitary groups.
Do you no mean conclusive evidence?
I did.
That’s what I get for being lazy and cutting and pasting from the News Letter!
‘The answer could well be ‘yes’, because there is an almost complete lack of interest amongst unionist politicians about loyalist violence against Protestants.’
What else would you expect from the ‘men of principle and biblical truth’ ?
Brave man McCord and I hope he does find out the truth about his son’s murder . Hundreds of people in NI will of course never find out the truth.
Why did Mr Mc Cord feel the need to wear an orange order sash,when hes not even a brother in the order? I hope he dooes find out the truth about his sons killing at the hands of uvf scum,but why the need to don a sash..
equally, sinn fein are not the best people to deal with the circumstances of people murdered by the IRA.
Besashed (jpg image).
My guess is that he probably wore the sash as an over-the-top indicator to his own community that he hasn’t suddenly turned Republican.
I sympathise with Raymond McCord and hope he gets justice. But unfortunately he is being used by the Sinn Fein PIRA terrorists. These are the people that have murdered many innocents – just like Raymond McCord’s son. So far there has been no justice for the victims of Sinn Fein PIRA violence. So the only reason Sinn Fein PIRA are interested is to push their political agenda.
As an actual Orangeman, I resent Mr McCord wearing colours he has no right to put on. I also think he has damaged himself and his cause by going along to the Chuckies to denounce the UK state. That’s a pity as the links between the UK state and the loyalist paramilitaries are well worth exploring. Some of us have long suspected that elements within the UK state encouraged loyalist violence for their own ends. But Mr McCord has helped to ensure that few unionists will be keen to be associated with him.
Watchman,
I’d say he ended up there precisely because too few unionist politicians were keen to be associated with him.
The Watchman,
Clearly in your world, McCord has committed a much bigger crime by adressing the SF conference than those who murdered his son in cold blood.
Says a lot about your morals or indeed the lack of them.
The Watchman – “Mr McCord has helped to ensure that few unionists will be keen to be associated with him.”
Agreed. On your point about the state and various paramilitaries, the role of the Republic of Ireland also needs to be examined i.e. how Sinn Fein PIRA was setup, armed and then sheltered while they carried out their murder campaign.
>>I’d say he ended up there precisely because too few unionist politicians were keen to be associated with him.<<
Spot on! The OO sash wearing was quite ill mannered I thought, seems SF are determined to bend over backwards(and probably forwards to prove that Prods are welcome). Why won’t they just accept the telling, or is some kind of insertion really needed.
Ok P&J;!
Here is a challenge. Try and debate without using whataboutery, let’s see how you get on.
As Gonzo and Garibaldy noted above, Unionism wasn’t interested in helping him or exploring the issue before so claims this has reduced his chances of support ring very hollow.
Can`t help thinking would Mr Mc Cord still have appeared as another spinn fein annual token stunt if he`d spoken to the Mc Cartney sisters first?
Look where it got them.
Watchman:
That’s a pity as the links between the UK state and the loyalist paramilitaries are well worth exploring.
They have been explored in detail and no doubt will continue to be explored. Unionist politicians, generally speaking, ignore such exploration, citing the policy of running informers as being necessary; they systematically oppose proposals to investigate collusion or the other, more shady, activities of Special Branch.
Far more interesting to explore, though, would be the links between unionist politicians and loyalist paramilitaries. And the Orange sash has been used in other unfortunate occasions as well, such as when the Whiterock parade was rerouted and besashed individuals chose the moment to riot and attack police lines. I don’t particularly remember people standing up to complain about their resentment of the way the sash was used then.
This event would seem to be a case of ‘my enemy`s enemy is my friend’. As Mr McCord has vowed to leave no stone unturned to bring his son`s killers to justice and expose the authorities` part in protecting those killers, this appearance keeps the case in the news. Good strategy.
Why are the comments from ‘Screwball’ about Willie McCrea allowed on this site? When people post the truth about Sinn Fein PIRA individuals, the posts get removed. Complete double standards on Slugger.
To Prince Eoghan – some things need to be put in context. Of course it doesn’t suit your agenda to hear the other side of the story.
Evidently McCord has upset Realist by besmirching the reputation of the beloved sash at an away fixture down south.
Presumably Realist has no such objections when thousands of orangemen borrow the neutral and non-sectarian environs of Windsor Park of a summer month to display their sashes at an aul’ orange sectarian-fest….
Peaceandjustice,
the reason comments about McCrea are not removed is because Good Ole’ Willie went on a public platform (and therefore public record) to defend the rights of terrorist mass murderer Billy Wright.
Let me educate you further, Billy boy then went and set up drug dealing murder gang the LVF.
So go you and put two and two together, oh moral one.
It’s all on record, pal, if you care to look.
But maybe you won’t. And in doing so confirm the points made by others about unionist ambivalence toward loyalist terrorism.
To Screwball & northsider – So William McCrea was on a platform once with Billy Wright. Compare this with the Butcher of the Bogside who says he is very very proud of his association with the terrorist wing of Sinn Fein PIRA. What do you think of Martin McG? Also, we’ve had Adams and McG carrying the coffins of SF PIRA terrorists who murdered Protestants. And of course the majority of Roman Catholics in Northern Ireland have given Sinn Fein PIRA a platform through their votes – thereby associating themselves with these murderers. Any opinion on that? You appear to be clutching at straws in relation to Unionist politicians while ignoring real examples of Sinn Fein PIRA terrorists. But better not let the truth get in the way of your propaganda.
Which is why I think Raymond McCord made a mistake attending the Sinn Fein PIRA terrorist conference. Asking terrorists who murdered many people to help him get justice seems rather strange.
northsider
Well said, but you are wasting your time with the laughably named “PeaceandJustice”.
I would have thought that any regular reader here would be familiar with his one-sided and hypocritical views on “loyalist” terrorists.
I don’t know any Catholic who was surprised at McCrea’s public backing for “loyalist” sectarian murderer and drug dealer Wright. For decades McCrea would come on TV to condemn any republican violence but very rarely had anything to say about the scores of innocent Catholics murdered by “loyalist” terrorists in his constituency. Even when pressed, his condemnation of “loyalist” violence was tepid and half-hearted in comparison to his fierce condemnation of Republicans.
He was frequently claiming that there must be Catholics providing information to the IRA about their work colleagues who were in the RUC reserve, UDR etc.
A friend of mine was murdered by the UVF. The killers walked in to his place of work – picked him out as the only Catholic and murdered him – they already knew who he was and his religion.
Oddly enough, McCrea never came out and asked how his killers knew his religion and where to find him. In fact, I don’t ever recall McCrea making accusations about Protestants identifying Catholic collegues to “loyalist” terrorists although this was clearly happening in a number of cases.
As I said, he never had any hesitation in claiming that there were Catholics who were identifying colleagues as “targets” for the IRA/INLA.
I have no time for him and his hypocritical views – his alliance with Billy Wright merely confirmed what I had always thought about his blatent double standards.
I agree with anyone who, like myself, clearly and unequivocably condemns ANY and ALL terrorism equally and who doesn’t differentiate between Republican and “loyalist” terrorists or between Catholic and Protestant victims.
I certainly don’t think that scrutiny of McCrea’s record would show anything like an equal balance of condemnation.
I’m not surprised that ‘PeaceandJustice’ defends fim – they have a lot in common!
peaceandjustice: you are perfectly correct – several of my posts reminding people of sinn fein and ira misdeeds committed by or condoned by their current elected leadership were immediately removed by mr fealty and his cronies with acid remarks from them about commenting policy – it seems that you can just about say anything about anyone except people in the leadership of sinn fein – it is why i have accused fealty of hypocrisy and why i believe that this site is up the provos’ hole – if fealty & co were honest about it, it wouldn’t be so bad but they are not, they pretend to be are even-handed when they’re not.
Peace and Justice stop condoning murder. The man is obviously desperate for justice for his murdered son. It says something that he has to turn to Sinn Féin to get justice, namely that as long as it suits their narrow sectarian views the main unionist parties are prepared to condone state collusion in murder . Your ideas on peace and justice are narrow sectarian ones. Grow up and quit condoning the actions of terrorists and their state sponsorors
As an aside on a point of information, it is a collarette not a sash.
Stop your MOPEry, Jake!
As for terrorist conferences,P & J, I believe that the Ulster Resistance Red Berets are due to have one soon after a two year sabbatical-but this time the venue definitley won’t be Clontibret. It’s kinda funny that Peter The Punt has ended up being the Minister Of Finance-payback time, I suppose..
austin: its about exposing double standards – peter robinson becoming minister of finance is an example of one but so is martin mcguinness becoming the deputy first minister responsible for putting together a policy on victims, many of whom he helped create as chief of staff and then northern commander of the ira.
Never seen up your hole written down before. Great stuff.
We are where we are. People need to deal with it. It might well be unpalatable, but it’s better than what we had before.
Jake, -stop the MOPEry man!!!
I have to laugh at Peace & Justice, he forgot the rest of his name…..for Protestants only. There is a lot of typical unionist hypocrisy going on here as usual. They condemn Mr McCord but are quite happy to use the McCartney’s and Quinn’s to score cheap political points. Both these families deserve justice but the way they have been manipulated and used for political purposes has alienated them from many within the nationalist community who were originally sympathetic and supportive. I would agree with an earlier poster that the links between certain Unionist politicians, M15 and Loyalist terrorists should be explored but maybe in the year 2525 will the truth come out. It is terrible that Raymond McCord has been abandoned by Unionist politicians more interested in ignoring collusion than justice for the McCord family.
Peace and justice for Prods (it suits)
I guess you couldn’t take the challenge!
I have no problem with any ‘truths’, in fact am eager for it all to out, even some of the laughably immature ones that you have a penchance to come out with on occasion.
Now how’s about actually addressing the subject matter in hand. I would actually be interested in your take on it, do people in your community not deserve some answers here? Please comment on the issues at hand, then whatabout all you like.
To Billy – are you related to John Hume? He had the single transferable speech and you have the single transferable post. Never attacking Sinn Fein PIRA death squads members who are now in power yet claiming to be some sort of model citizen!
As for the other comments, the truth must hurt. Pan-Nationalists have given a platform to murdering terrorists via their votes – yet everyone else is to blame.
I already have said that I sympathise with Raymond McCord. But asking for help at a conference for Sinn Fein PIRA death squad members seems very strange indeed.
I’ve had to clip quite a bit of the comments here for playing the man. It would be good if others on here tried to hold the line a little more robustly.
LURIG:
That’s a familiar line, but it’s not one that has anything like universal agreement or support. For instance, Catherine McCartney’s book Walls of Silence gives quite a different impression of the same set of events, and is well worth the read. Her contrast of what the Sinn Fein leadership was saying to her and her sisters in private, with the party’s public line is particularly interesting.
She claims the sisters were told quite candidly that the IRA was powerless to take any action against the perpetrators since they had extensive family connections within the Short Strand community. The offer to shoot the ‘volunteers’ the IRA believed to have been behind the killing of their brother only came later.
Strange P&J;but undestandable when you consider he was being stonewalled by politicians from his own community who seem to care more about political point scoring than the actual truth
“PeaceandJustice”
You lecturing anyone on a single transferrable post – what a joke. If 99 Catholics were burned out of their homes in 1 night + 1 Protestant had a window broken, your post would consist totally of a whinge about how the Protestant was treated and how the Catholics deserved what they got.
Let’s face it – that’s your one + only theme.
My views have never and will never change – I unreservedly condemn ANY and ALL terrorism. I treat all victims equally irrespective of religion.
I have never supported or voted for any party that supports terrorism.
I have never supported terrorism and you will NOT find any posting of mine that is ambiguous in any way about my views on terrorism.
GET IT!!
On the other hand, 99% of your posts are about Sinn Fein, the IRA or Catholics in general.
You only mention “loyalist” terrorism when challenged and, even then, your “criticisms” are ambiguous and half-hearted (just like McCrea’s).
I’m sure that many Unionist people here oppose my views – fair enough but you are the only one stupid enough to claim that I am some sort of supporter of Sinn Fein and/or the IRA or Republican terrorism.
On the other hand, it’s obvious that your pretence of being opposed to “loyalist” terrorism hasn’t fooled anyone. It’s hardly surprising as you are so open in your whatboutery and never ever discuss “loyalist” terrorism in any depth – even when it’s the topic in question.
You gloss over “loyalist” terrorism and try to pretend it’s non-existent and then go off on one of your frequent anti-Catholic rants.
I’m glad to see that a number of other posters on this topic have challenged your blatent whataboutery.
You are a revisionist and effectively an apologist for “loyalist” terrorism.
If you don’t like what I post – tough. That’s how it is when you try to defend the indefensible actions of terrorists.
Billy,
Like I said, “It would be good if others on here tried to hold the line a little more robustly.”
I know that can be hard if we’ve been affected by the troubles in some direct way. But I always presume that someone reading Slugger will have suffered just as badly or worse.
I’m all for vigorous rejoinders but let’s keep it on subject and, if we can, leave whether people like us or not to one side for the moment?
The episode regarding Raymond McCord’s murder and his father’s fight for justice is very distressing.
This young man was murdered by a terrorist organisation; it seems that many are aware of who murdered him but that there is inadequate evidence to prosecute them. It is just the same as the murder of Thomas Devlin, Paul Quinn and quite possibly Lisa Dorrian along with countless others from the recent and more distant past.
Mr. McCord is clearly desperate for justice and is willing to do anything to keep up pressure for this to happen. Whilst I suspect it will be unproductive and possibly even counter productive for him to have attended the SF meeting and wear a collarette; I do not condemn his attempts to get justice. I do not think it will work, I do not think it will help and I think he will be used politically.
I also think it may be unfair to complian about Jeffrey Donaldson on this as we do not know how much real evidence Mr. McCord has been able to give him. However, However, what else is this man who lost his son to do? Of course he will clutch at straws. And yes of course SF will make rather distasteful political propaganda out of it: what else do people expect?
Without wishing to make too much of a political point this episode helps encapsulate where we now are. What we have is an unpeace: not conflict but not peace either. We congratulate ourselves about an end to violence but we have suspended coporate civic morality to gain this. I have previously accussed certain parties of a Faustian pact. Maybe the reality is we have all partaken of it and the likes of Mr. McCord, the Dorrian, Devlin, McCartney and Quinn families are the victims along with how many more? Not a particularly uplifting thought for Mother’s Day.
It was brave for McCord to go to address Sinn Fein however he forgets if it hasd not been for a viscious IRA campaign in the first place then nobody would have died inh the first palce form any side!
Problem with that remark T & J is that it gives a totally mistaken impression of who was responsible for the early deaths in the Troubles.
PeaceandJustice [i]“Agreed. On your point about the state and various paramilitaries, the role of the Republic of Ireland also needs to be examined i.e. how Sinn Fein PIRA was setup, armed and then sheltered while they carried out their murder campaign.” [/i]
Well said, and the role the Gardai played over the border when the bogside blocked themselves in, should be investigated too.
PeaceandJustice[i]“And of course the majority of Roman Catholics in Northern Ireland have given Sinn Fein PIRA a platform through their votes – thereby associating themselves with these murderers.”[/i]
Correct. 1/4 of N.Ireland’s population supports Republican terrorists. It’s a sad statistic, but then again when these people are told that Protestants behaved like Nazi’s by both a Roman Catholic Priest and the Irish President, what else can we expect?
Brainwashing the Catholics in N.Ireland, so Protestants are demonised and legitimacy given to voting for Republican terrorists is being organised from the very top of Roman Catholic Irish society. It’s not enough that they’ve brainwashed the Irish Republic for centuries, they have to start twisting history in N.Ireland too.
Ulsters my homeland…..whose homeland was it before your ancestors?????
P&J;, remember nobody cheers for the schoolyard bully in a fight, now compare international support for irish nationalism and your unionist cause, and tell me im lying !
harsh truths, harsh truths
[i]“Ulsters my homeland…..whose homeland was it before your ancestors????? “[/i]
The Ulster people
for ‘ulster people’ read ‘the irish’.
‘The Ulster people’?????
err, thanks for that incisive and informative answer, UMH.
Lucky you covered your back there otherwise some people might have suspected you hadn’t got a baldy notion.
What amazes me is that the unionist people and politicians voted by a large majority to go into power and accept sinn fien and chuckle with the chuckies! But when a grieving father speaks about what happened to his son concerning collusion between loyalist killers and the british state the unionist politicians and community condemn him for talking with sinn fien??
Do any unionist bloggers on this site honestly say that the unionist politicians have done ANYTHING in addressing loyalist killers who were and are paid by the british state.
The only people who have talked about it are republicans. Not because they made it up and its just happened to republicans but because it happened and is still happening now to both sides of the community.
If the unionist people and politicians have a problem with my father fight for justice then maybe they should address the issue of collusion and not worry about losing votes from loyalist killers and their supporters.
Or why dont the unionist politicians support any other unionist family who have a loved one murdered by paid loyalist killers? Im sure they must want justice for any murder and not just republican murders.
The truth is the unionist politicians and people have ignored all the families from both communities who have had a loved one murdered by the likes of haddock. Not because they dont believe it but because they think it makes them a bad unionist to blacken the british state by exposing the collusion with loyalist killers.
I would like any unionist to answer one simple question WHY WONT THE UNIONIST POLITICIANS HELP OR SUPPORT ANY FAMILY AFFECTED BY PAID LOYALIST KILLERS AND THE UNIONIST PEOPLE STILL VOTE FOR THEM???
As for any orangeman being offended by the wearing of the collarette why? It was his fathers and is proud to show that he comes from a strong unionist family and the I.R.A. members accepted that with applause. Would the same respect be given to a republican at a d.u.p. conference??
If an orangeman is offended by a unionist father speaking the truth about paid loyalist killers wearing HIS fathers collarette then maybe they should look at the loyalist killers wearing the sash on the 12th and explain.
Truth and Justice, Peace and Justice, Ulsters my homeland I think youre all are missing the point here. A protestant is going to Sinn Féin to seek justice for the murder of his son. His son being an ex-RAF man. Why arent the unionist politicians interested in helping him out? Explain that?
PeaceAndJustice:
He had the single transferable speech and you have the single transferable post.
I hereby nominate you for the Paul Berry irony award. Make a speech!
Raymond McCord is a brave man, braver than all the elected unionist politicians put together, pursuing his cause and refusing to shut up despite ongoing death threats against him. Unionists, who say they oppose terrorism, should be standing up for this man if for no reason other than that he pursues his objectives against a background of threats of violence.
What’s ironic is that the justification used whenever Willie McCrea took to a podium with Billy Wright was that he was merely standing against a threat of violence against a constituent. So seemingly they can stand with an active murderer, but they can’t stand in solidarity with a victim ?
Regarding the point about naming names in the House of Commons, I find this to be a pretty base practice irrespective of why it is done or whom is named. Nonetheless, it is telling how unionists apply different standards depending on whom is involved. I remember specifically two individuals being named some years ago for IRA involvement by a DUP MP, claims which were subsequently denied by Ronnie Flanagan.
Ulsters my homeland:
Can you explain to me why the unionists in South Antrim re-elected William McCrea after he had taken to a podium with Billy Wright, or in the same constituency, why they elected David Burnside despite his history of writing article(s) in UDA magazines ? Can you explain why unionists endorsed Paisley despite Ulster Resistance and the Third Force ?
Getting down to a few facts, Sinn Fein’s vote prior to the IRA ceasefire was circa 12.5%. Willie McCrea and Peter Robinson, both of whom have been seen or have admitted meeting with Billy Wright, topped the poll in their respective constituencies . What gives ?
Comrade,
not looking to start an argument or deflect the topic (just want to satisfy my curiosity), but can you explain (or preferably link to something explaining) “despite his history of writing article(s) in UDA magazines”.
Must’ve been before my time I’m afraid.
If you prefer, please feel free to email it to (my name) at everythingulster.com or use the EU contact form.
Cheers.
there is no monopoly on suffering,to listen to unionist and sdlp politicians you would believe that the mccartneys and the quinns where the only families that have suffered….
The McCords and the Dorrian families will not get a campaign funded and supported by the above parties because they`re not interested…
theres no political gain…
sad but true!!
Every family be they nationalist, loyalist or security force families have a right to closure.
As to the comments of peaceandjustice and that other person who was concerned about…
hold yer breathe an orange collarette, pure and utter hypocrites comes to mind..
As to ulsters my homeland….apart from knowing more than the likes of Jackson, Foster, Bew, Kee, etc, about the history of this Island, you have to really laugh at “his” make believe history of Ulster!!
Does the uda combat mag still have cartoons!!!