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The Media Relations Department of Hizbollah Wishes You a Happy Birthday (Neil MacFarquhar)
With perhaps the longest title of any book I’ve read this year, The Media Relations Department of Hizbollah Wishes You a Happy Birthday: Unexpected Encounters in the Changing Middle East gives an insight into the lives of people living in Middle East through the eyes of journalist Neil MacFarquhar. MacFarquhar’s father was a chemical engineer [...] read our review »
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The peace process not such a good model after all
Which reminds me…. Platform for Change’s driving force Robin Wilson has produced a corrective to the notion that the lessons of the NI conflict are easily exportable. Like myself, Robin is associated with the Constitution Unit. He introduced his new book in a CU blog which I here reproduce. The water crisis in Northern Ireland [...] read our review »
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O’Toole’s New Republic – unfinished business or just a dream?
More as a trailer than a review – as it’s out on Thursday– I draw attention to Fintan O’Toole’s latest polemic “Enough is Enough – how to build a new Republic“. Fintan has been promoting the book vigorously on this side of the water, on Radio 4’s Start the Week and here at greater length [...] read our review »
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“No thanks; we’re grand on our own”
Ditto maca.
We’re all happy then?
realist so you are saying you would not go and see possibly the best team play the sport you may like the best in the most attractive manner? …..makes no sense, but unionists rarely do !
“realist so you are saying you would not go and see possibly the best team play the sport you may like the best in the most attractive manner?”
That’s correct.
I support Northern Ireland, and therefore go to watch Northern Ireland.
It matters not a jot who the opposition is.
It’s a pretty simple concept, and makes plenty of sense.
Perhaps you need to be a fan to understand it.
Realist so if brazil were playing the North, there wouldn’t be any larger turnout?
sure !
people go to see movies with good actors
just like people are willing to go and see a great football team play…..because they will be entertained.
Perhaps you should endeavour to play the role your name suggests.
“Realist so if brazil were playing the North, there wouldn’t be any larger turnout?”
Of course there would.
Lots of armchair “fans” would be attracted by the novelty of watching Brazil.
Same sort of thing happens when Man Unt come here to play “glamour” friendlies etc.
Irrelevant to regular Northern Ireland fans, who go to watch Northern Ireland – regardless of who the other team is.
You seem to be telling me that Croke Park included a lot of folk who were there just to watch the Brazilians on Wednesday?
Well, good luck to them – for so long as God spares me, I’ll be watching Northern Ireland play…and it’ll not matter to me whether the opposition is Brazil or San Marino.
Lots of armchair “fans” would be attracted by the novelty of watching Brazil.
Or maybe they don’t live close to the ground and they can only afford or can only organise seeing the odd game and the fact the opposition is one of the best teams of the planet gives them extra incentive. Maybe they are fans but also balanced people. The whole “you have to watch every game to be a REAL fan” stuff is absolute nonsense.
Otherwise you will be writing to the IFA to insist they only sell Replica shirts at the ground, and refuse all TV offers, I presume?
“The whole “you have to watch every game to be a REAL fan” stuff is absolute nonsense”
I wouldn’t expect anything less from you kensei.
Have you ever got to see your beloved Republic Of Ireland play yet?
I think I’ve been to see them more than you…seriously!
I wouldn’t expect anything less from you kensei.Have you ever got to see your beloved Republic Of Ireland play yet?
Well, I did say that I would go when I got the opportunity to get tickets, and there was decent opposition, because I wouldn’t know when I’d get to another one. My father has always had Brazil on a pedestal, so the perfect game no? Not helped by the FAI’s inane collection policy, but helped out by a work colleague.
I think I’ve been to see them more than you…seriously!
I’d guess you are both older than me and have a more obsessive attitude toward football. Well, I pretty sure of that, but I can’t guarantee you’re not twelve with an attitude like that.
Kensei
“Or maybe they don’t live close to the ground and they can only afford or can only organise seeing the odd game and the fact the opposition is one of the best teams of the planet gives them extra incentive. ”
But alas Kensei not even the Brazillians can motivate you to go down Mexico way.
But alas Kensei not even the Brazillians can motivate you to go down Mexico way.
Did someone not read the next post? Whoopsie Doctor
Kensei,
So you finally went to a ROI match. Are you sure you´re not just trying to impress.
Anyway what did you think? Was this the first time you where outside the UK?
Well done.
kensei,
If I may borrow and adapt the words of famous terrace chant.
When I go to watch Northern Ireland play…”I only know that there’s going to be a show, and our wee country will be there”.
“obsessive attitude toward football”
Merely a Northern Ireland “fan”, not someone who might pop along to a hip, cool, and trendy match – if the opportunity arises.
Realist
Merely a Northern Ireland “fan”, not someone who might pop along to a hip, cool, and trendy match – if the opportunity arises.
:rolleyes:
I’m still waiting on your insistence that the IFA give up TV rights and only sell Replica shirts to those that book seats for a full campaign of games. Oh, and don’t sell single tickets because you wouldn’t want anyone not committed to the one true cause turning up.
kensei,
There’s fans, and there’s “sometimes” fans.
Haven’t a clue what you’re on about with your replica shirts and TV rights claptrap.
If you only want to watch your favourites when they are playing a “glamour” team, good luck to you.
If you are a “casual” football follower, good luck to you too.
I’ll be watching my favourites, regardless of who the opposition is.
I go to support MY team, not who they are playing.
Not a lot to fall out over there. rolleyes.
Norn Iron fans = black c u n t s
Just my $0.02
Realist
There’s fans, and there’s “sometimes” fans.
And the idea that you fall into the “sometime” category simply because you don’t go to every game is nonsense; doubly so in modern football. Not everyone is obsessed with football – doesn’t mean they don’t like following a team or cheering their country.
Haven’t a clue what you’re on about with your replica shirts and TV rights claptrap.
Well, if your position is that only fans that attend every game are real “fans” and everyone else are hangers on, then by that logic you should not put the matches on TV; that’ll only create more of them. You’ll not want the shirt sold except at the ground: why should the hangers on pretend they are real “fans”. I mean, it’d be hypocritical to take their money.
If you only want to watch your favourites when they are playing a “glamour” team, good luck to you.
I would have happily have watched them play Andorra. But rationally, given that I’ll probably only manage to catch a few games over a number of years, picking the better opposition is the rational choice. Unless you are only looking to watch your team win.
If you are a “casual” football follower, good luck to you too.
I casual is a bit far. Lte’s say semi-casual. I frequent a games forum too, btw. They argue over “casual” and hardcore there due to the type of games and number of hours played. This is roughly as sad.
I’ll be watching my favourites, regardless of who the opposition is.
I go to support MY team, not who they are playing.
Not a lot to fall out over there. rolleyes.
Quite. Good luck to you. But since you decided to adapt a position of superiority because you’ve watched more games, :rolleyes: was entirely appropriate.
Tell me, do you do that with “casual” fans you bnring to NI games?
kensei,
“if your position is that only fans that attend every game are real “fans” and everyone else are hangers on”
That is not my position.
“Tell me, do you do that with “casual” fans you bnring to NI games?”
Absolutely nothing – what a crazy question!
Incidently,the vast majority of home tickets for Northern Ireland matches are purchased by fans by means of a block booking scheme.
During the recent Euro campaign, tickets only went on open sale when the away side did not take up their permitted allocation.
That is not my position.
Why are we having this conversation then?
‘Merely a Northern Ireland “fan”, not someone who might pop along to a hip, cool, and trendy match – if the opportunity arises.’
bit like the rise in attendances at windsor from 7k to the heady heights of 13k after the England game.
Most teams have plenty of bandwagon jumpers.
kensei,
“Why are we having this conversation then?”
I don’t know.
james,
“bit like the rise in attendances at windsor from 7k to the heady heights of 13k after the England game.
Most teams have plenty of bandwagon jumpers”
That’s correct.
However, the increase in attendances was due to the relative success of the team.
The JCLs were there to watch Northern Ireland tho, which was my original point – not much at all to do with who they were playing.
Our home games in the WCQ will be basically sold out, pre competition (only tickets available will be those the away sides don’t want from their alloted allocation).
There is nobody in the group that could be described as a real “glamour” draw.
It’ll be sold out with people wishing to watch Northern Ireland.
[I]Norn Iron fans = black c u n t s
Just my $0.02
Posted by tdonaghy on Feb 12, 2008 @ 07:02 PM
[/I]
Well thank you for not contributing. Go away and sniff some glue or whatever backward morons like you do for recreation.
REPUBLICANSTONES
i take it you don’t attend sports fixtures very often willow…..as you don’t seem to know the difference between ticket sales and actual attendance !
I’m afraid the above sentence makes no sense to me: (1) I attend sports fixtures regularly; and (2) I do know the difference between ticket sales and actual attendance.
Was the Brazil game the biggest attendance for a football match in Ireland or not? Yes or no?
If so, then (1) reports that previous matches at Croke Park were sold out were clearly false, and (2) it would seem that people in the South are more interested in a meaningless friendly against Brazil than in real, competitive European Championship qualifiers.
If not, then Sammy McNally was wrong.
oh yeah…..if your a soccer fan, would you rahter see a game against wales or Iceland or against Brazil?????
If the games against Wales or Iceland were competitive World Cup or Euro qualifiers, I would rather see those games. If they were friendlies, I’d rather see Brazil. (In reality, though, I’d go along to any of those games – friendly or otherwise.)
KENSEI
I would have happily have watched them play Andorra. But rationally, given that I’ll probably only manage to catch a few games over a number of years, picking the better opposition is the rational choice. Unless you are only looking to watch your team win.
So rationally you’d prefer a meaningless friendly against Brazil than a Euro 2008 qualifier (even against Germany), based on the opposition?
willow
So rationally you’d prefer a meaningless friendly against Brazil than a Euro 2008 qualifier (even against Germany), based on the opposition?
Then you have the other factor — it is incredibly difficult to get tickets, even with the capacity at Croke. The prospect of getting one for a qualifier against Germany is approximately nil.
That would make sense except – according to Sammy McNally – the qualifier against Germany wasn’t sold out, yet the Brazil game was, so it must have been easier to get tickets for the former game.
It is not at all unreasonable to judge a football fan to be someone who actually goes to games and in discussions about football to accord more weight to the opinion of someone who regularly attends matches. The stark facts is that the vast majority of people who participate in football discussions about Northern Ireland and the Republic on this site fall into two categories – Northern Ireland fans who attend matches and Northern Ireland based Southern Ireland fans who do not.
willow
That would make sense except – according to Sammy McNally – the qualifier against Germany wasn’t sold out, yet the Brazil game was, so it must have been easier to get tickets for the former game.
I have no idea if he’s right, but the Brazil tickets were up on Ticketmaster.ie and the Germany ones weren’t AFAIK, and having looked about before I have no idea where to get general tickets — the FAI site just talks about block allocations. Perhaps easier access facilitated the sell out, no?
And besides, last September I had blew all my money on going to the Electric Picnic (I attend man order of magnitude more live music than I do football) and had to save for my dad’s 50th.
Chekov
It is not at all unreasonable to judge a football fan to be someone who actually goes to games and in discussions about football to accord more weight to the opinion of someone who regularly attends matches. The stark facts is that the vast majority of people who participate in football discussions about Northern Ireland and the Republic on this site fall into two categories – Northern Ireland fans who attend matches and Northern Ireland based Southern Ireland fans who do not.
First up, the topic on discussion is rarely the actual game on which a hardcore fan might have some advantage; second the site rules are to play the man not the ball, so if someone says NI’s defense is weak, for example, then it’s up to you to develop an argument that proves otherwise. Appeal to authority will not do.
I have no idea if he’s right, but the Brazil tickets were up on Ticketmaster.ie and the Germany ones weren’t AFAIK, and having looked about before I have no idea where to get general tickets—the FAI site just talks about block allocations. Perhaps easier access facilitated the sell out, no?
Yes, perhaps, although I still find it odd that the Germany game would not have been sold out.
I’m guessing that the Germany match was covered by a block ticket for all the Euro 2008 qualifiers, which you would have had to buy at the start of the campaign. That’s how NI do it.
kensei,
“The prospect of getting one for a qualifier against Germany is approximately nil”
Total nonsense.
The attendance at the Republic Of Ireland v Germany Euro Qualifier at Croke Park in October 2007 was 67,495.
There was absolutely no problem in getting a ticket for that game.
Wrong Realist-that game was entirely sold out-I know I was there.Due to temporary seating requirements and segregation purposes, the capacity of Croker was set at 67,000 plus.
Consequently there were not’plenty of tickets’ available for that game-nice bit of wishful thinking all the same…
Wrong Realist-that game was entirely sold out
So were there more at the Brazil game, yes or no? Presumably not, unless the restrictions for a UEFA game meant fewer tickets could be sold?
‘Presumably not, unless the restrictions for a UEFA game meant fewer tickets could be sold? ‘
Exactly that-Better late than never, Willowfield..
‘The attendance at the Republic Of Ireland v Germany Euro Qualifier at Croke Park in October 2007 was 67,495′
And was a sell out.
Actually went to the game out of interest and found it much more entertaining than sitting in a ground surrounded by cow sheds, as is the case at Windsor Park.
‘Actually went to the game out of interest and found it much more entertaining than sitting in a ground surrounded by cow sheds, as is the case at Windsor Park’
That’s a bit below the Belt, Don-what have you got against cow sheds?
Realist
Apparently you are better off sticking to talking about NI….
Sicky Boo! nordies, we got Trapo now and that means we have qualified for South Africa 2010, so there.
Oul Trapo will be more popular in the homes of the Irish people than the Pope.
don,
“And was a sell out”
Are you then telling us that the capacity of Croke Park, imposed by UEFA for games in the Euro Qualifiers, was set at just over 67,000?
“First up, the topic on discussion is rarely the actual game on which a hardcore fan might have some advantage; second the site rules are to play the man not the ball, so if someone says NI’s defense is weak, for example, then it’s up to you to develop an argument that proves otherwise. Appeal to authority will not do.”
“Defence” is the noun, not “defense”. Whilst strictly speaking of course anyone has a right to comment on anything they like, de facto those who actually do go and watch football speak with more authority. That is whether they are discussing the actual match (because they were there and have naturally acquired a greater knowledge of the game by regular attendance) or whether they are discussing issues surrounding the game (because those issues impact more directly on them).
Realist
Easiest way is to go to the Horses mouth
http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1673
2:56 PM: The vibrant setting at Croke Park was enhanced by the bright sunshine on a cold and fine afternoon. Capacity of the stadium was reduced to 67,000 for the match as bucket seats were temporarily installed on Hill 16 to comply with FIFA regulations that do not allow standing at international matches.
Chekov
““Defence” is the noun, not “defense”.”
I work for an American firm, I pick up Americanisms. I don’t think I have ever grasped the desire by others to correct spelling or grammar. This isn’t an academic paper, and I don’t particularly care.
Whilst strictly speaking of course anyone has a right to comment on anything they like, de facto those who actually do go and watch football speak with more authority.
Any authority they gain is simply a result of knowledge and expertise gleaned form it. If you spend 50 years at football matches and still can’t spot a good player, the time is irrelevant.
That is whether they are discussing the actual match (because they were there and have naturally acquired a greater knowledge of the game by regular attendance) or whether they are discussing issues surrounding the game (because those issues impact more directly on them).
Caring really hard is not enough to make wrong right, no matter how hard you wish.
“2:56 PM: The vibrant setting at Croke Park was enhanced by the bright sunshine on a cold and fine afternoon. Capacity of the stadium was reduced to 67,000 for the match as bucket seats were temporarily installed on Hill 16 to comply with FIFA regulations that do not allow standing at international matches.”
The FAI site also claims that the Southern Irish cup is the oldest competitive football tournament in Ireland.
“I work for an American firm, I pick up Americanisms”
So you’ve actually raised the stakes from those who go to the US for 6 months and start speaking and acting as if they are Americans! You have found a way to actually be more irritating than those people (who deserve to be executed at the luggage carousel as they attempt to re-enter Europe)! Astonishing.
“Caring really hard is not enough to make wrong right, no matter how hard you wish.”
The issue is not caring really hard. The issue is that matters regarding a particular sport are relevant to the players and spectators of that sport, not to slightly interested bystanders. The views of the players and spectators of that sport / sport’s team should be accorded more weight than those of slightly interested bystanders.
I personally will continue to work on this principle. If I wish to know about rugby and the issues surrounding the Ireland rugby team for example, I will listen more intently to someone who supports that team by attending matches than I will to someone who does not.
I personally will continue to work on this principle. If I wish to know about rugby and the issues surrounding the Ireland rugby team for example, I will listen more intently to someone who supports that team by attending matches than I will to someone who does not.
Actually, you get a greater knowledge of the game by playing it. I watch a lot of Rugby and Cricket but have never played the sports. Hence, a blind Stuart Barnes’ knowledge on the former will always be greater than mine.
Chekov
The FAI site also claims that the Southern Irish cup is the oldest competitive football tournament in Ireland.
Just to be clear: the FAI are lying about the attendance restrictions then?
“So you’ve actually raised the stakes from those who go to the US for 6 months and start speaking and acting as if they are Americans! You have found a way to actually be more irritating than those people (who deserve to be executed at the luggage carousel as they attempt to re-enter Europe)! Astonishing. ”
Let me see, someone who goes to live in the US who starts speaking with an American accent versus someone who has worked with American firms for 4 years and has to deal with a ton of email who occasionally slips in an -se rather than a -ce. Inane.
The issue is not caring really hard. The issue is that matters regarding a particular sport are relevant to the players and spectators of that sport, not to slightly interested bystanders. The views of the players and spectators of that sport / sport’s team should be accorded more weight than those of slightly interested bystanders.
Not unless you can back it up with a good argument. The fact you really, really care about the IFA does not mean that having Sunday football is necessarily a good idea, or that Irish citizens should be barred from playing for their country. Unless you can construct a good argument, it is moot.
I personally will continue to work on this principle. If I wish to know about rugby and the issues surrounding the Ireland rugby team for example, I will listen more intently to someone who supports that team by attending matches than I will to someone who does not.
Listen, by all means. They might be able to run through the issues with more accuracy and detail. But if you accept a position simply because of the person saying it, you are a fool.
“Just to be clear: the FAI are lying about the attendance restrictions then?”
No. I am simply pointing out that the FAI’s website is not always accurate. On the issue of attendances they may very well have got it right. The facts they presented about Irish cup competitions were certainly lies.
“Not unless you can back it up with a good argument. The fact you really, really care about the IFA does not mean that having Sunday football is necessarily a good idea, or that Irish citizens should be barred from playing for their country. Unless you can construct a good argument, it is moot.”
Absolutely, but it is correct to treat with more suspicion arguments from Northern fans of the south who do not attend matches, or attend matches only very rarely.
No. I am simply pointing out that the FAI’s website is not always accurate. On the issue of attendances they may very well have got it right. The facts they presented about Irish cup competitions were certainly lies.
Come now, Chekov, we both know that the IFA report is 100% accurate on the attendance restrictions. And if you are going to pursue the “oldest Cup Competition in Ireland” you might as well just go straight for the partitionist FA point rather than dance about.
Absolutely, but it is correct to treat with more suspicion arguments from Northern fans of the south who do not attend matches, or attend matches only very rarely.
The quality of a point is independent of who says it or their motivation for saying it. I will no doubt go to at least one other Republic matches over the next few years. I’ll probably view over half the WC Qualifying campaign on TV, I did last time. I like football, but I like other things too, and my money and time will be split between them. Doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy following my club or country and want to see them win. Doesn’t mean I don’t know my own mind when it comes to my nationality and identity.
Your “suspicion” comes simply because you dislike Nationalists supporting the Republic so you project that dislike to everything they say. Life would be a lot better if you just talk people at face value.
“Come now, Chekov, we both know that the IFA report is 100% accurate on the attendance restrictions. And if you are going to pursue the “oldest Cup Competition in Ireland” you might as well just go straight for the partitionist FA point rather than dance about.”
The fact is that the oldest football competition in Ireland is the IFA’s Irish Cup and if the FAI claims that their cup competition is the oldest in Ireland they are lying. The Irish Cup predates it by 41 years.
“ I will no doubt go to at least one other Republic matches over the next few years. I’ll probably view over half the WC Qualifying campaign on TV, I did last time.”
And I and other Northern Ireland supporters who post on this site will no doubt attend all Northern Ireland’s home games (unforeseen circumstances not withstanding) and a good few away games. I may get to a couple of Liverpool games a season and watch a lot of games on TV, but I wouldn’t presume to compare my views on Gillett and Hicks for example with those of a regular Koppite. Their opinion is more valid, because they have more invested in the outworking of that situation.
“I like football, but I like other things too, and my money and time will be split between them.”
I’m sure that most attending Northern Ireland fans also have various interests and hobbies competing for time and money, but international games luckily do not occur very often.
“Your “suspicion” comes simply because you dislike Nationalists supporting the Republic so you project that dislike to everything they say. Life would be a lot better if you just talk people at face value.”
Nationalists can support who they like, but I certainly don’t have a great deal of time for the average stay-at-home supporter of the south who watches the vast majority of their ROI games on Sky TV. And I certainly have a problem with hi-jacking the term “Ireland” to refer to the southern team.
‘And I certainly have a problem with hi-jacking the term “Ireland” to refer to the southern team.’
The Ireland team is supported by the vast majority of football supporters on the island, it also fields players from every part of the island, so Hard to call the team anything other than Ireland.
Trapattoni is a real catch for the FAI, and the one million coughed up by O’Brien obviously helped with the wage bill.
Is it true that the Jameson group gave £500 to the IFA to help secure the services of Nigel Worthington ?
And I and other Northern Ireland supporters who post on this site will no doubt attend all Northern Ireland’s home games (unforeseen circumstances not withstanding) and a good few away games.
So every Northern Ireland fan on this site will attend every game? The ones that don’t will be viewed with suspicion and contempt.
I may get to a couple of Liverpool games a season and watch a lot of games on TV, but I wouldn’t presume to compare my views on Gillett and Hicks for example with those of a regular Koppite. Their opinion is more valid, because they have more invested in the outworking of that situation.
If you’ve seen enough of them, you are more than justified in offering your opinion. Bizarre logic.
I’m sure that most attending Northern Ireland fans also have various interests and hobbies competing for time and money, but international games luckily do not occur very often.
And? They clear rate football much ahead of them.
Nationalists can support who they like, but I certainly don’t have a great deal of time for the average stay-at-home supporter of the south who watches the vast majority of their ROI games on Sky TV.
So to paraphrase: Nationalists can support you they like but I despise the fact they don’t support NI and will dismiss their opinion because of that.
Some call it bigotry.
And I certainly have a problem with hi-jacking the term “Ireland” to refer to the southern team.
Well, since we’ve spent years calling ourselves Ireland, and you’ve spent years trying to call yourselves anything but, and stressing “Northern” if you must utter it, it’s hardly a surprise, though.
kensei,
If the, UEFA imposed, capacity for the Euro Qualifiers was 67,000, how come there were 72,539 at the Republic Of Ireland v Wales game at Croke Park during the campaign?
Realist,
Maybe your conspiracy theory is that the FAI chose to have 5,000 less of a capacity for the Germany game because they were afraid they couldn’t sell the tickets. The fact that tickets were being sold for several hundred euros apiece before the German game does however somewhat dispel that fantasy.
The real reason was that side sections of Hill 16 were left empty for the German game for segregation purposes whilst extra space was made available on the Hill for Irish fans for the Wales game.
I don’t know why this was the case as there was a great atmosphere between the Irish and German fans. Our Busload from Belfast stopped at the fans event in Inchicore and the craic between both sets of supporters was great.
Still I understand why you must get confused with big numbers like sixty and seventy thousand.
As an NI fan, you;re a bit like the bonus ball in the Thunderball-no chance of getting higher than 14 and even that’s a rare event.
“As an NI fan, you;re a bit like the bonus ball in the Thunderball-no chance of getting higher than 14 and even that’s a rare event”
And…I’m sure your dick is bigger than mine too austin!