Nationalist politicians turning their backs on Irish language…
There’s a useful translation of Eoghan op ed in La Nua doing the rounds at the moment (below the fold). You can find the original here. It reflects a large strand of thought amongst the Irish language section of civil society. He argues that the language has fared particularly poorly in the interparty negotiations, and that accordingly they feel abandoned by parties like Sinn Fein and the SDLP who had previous pledged support.Where were you, our friends in power?
Eoghan Ó Néill
There are five Nationalist ministers in Stormont as well as one junior minister.
Six people who state that they are in favour of the Irish language.
Are there any Gaels in the Six Counties out there who felt relief that we had so many ‘friends in power’?
Caitríona Ruane is doing great work with Irish medium education, work that is gaining the praise of all Gaels in the six counties.But besides that, the Irish language community does not take much hope from having the best wishes of nearly half the seats in stormont. If the will was present, or indeed the resources, those same nationalist ministers could implement bi-lingual policies within their own respective ministeries.
That would promote an Irish language Act through the back door.
But they did not do that and they will not do that.Instead of doing something radical like that, all six sat in silence while Michael McGimpsey finished off the last and only bi-lingual symbol in a Stormont ministry, the bi-lingual advert that would have accompanied The Ministry of Health. Instead of gaining dividends, all we got was silence, contempt, degrading, battering and bruising from nearly every other minister sat at the table. Even last week, Sinn Féin and SDLP ministers accepted a budget that will proceed to put the proverbial final nail in the coffin of the Broadcasting Fund.
Why didn’t even one of the Sinn Féin ministers do what Margaret Ritchie and Michael McGimpsey did and state that they would refuse to accept the budget unless they got AB and C beforehand. As well as that, £40 million from the Irish Government being directed towards Reg Empey’s innovative fund, not one of them proposed that that money should be directed towards The Irish language Quarter or to other Irish language enterprises.
If we did not felt any encouragement or seen any dividends from having six Nationalist ministers, then all Gaels must feel gutted given that Edwin Poots is now in charge of a crusade to maul the Irish language.
Thanks to Sinn Féin and to the SDLP, Edwin Poots has the power to thrash the Irish language in the North. It was them who granted the DUP with DCAL (Department for Culture, Arts and Leisure).
Was it that these Nationalist politicians did not see the importance that this Ministry would have in terms of promoting the Irish language in the North and in and All-Ireland context?
Or was it that they did not care because they have their own agenda and programme and that the welfare of the Irish language would have to wait.Imagine what could have been achieved if Michelle Gildernew had have been Minister for Culture, Arts and Leisure for the last nine months instead of Edwin Poots. Imagine how effective it would have been to have Eamonn Ó Cuív and Foras na Gaeilge sit with Michelle Gildernew as opposed to Minister Poots.
Minister Poots has succeeded to throw an Irish language act in the rubbish bin. There is lots of room in that same bin for the Irish language Broadcasting fund. There is also plenty of room for other Irish language aspects of life also.
What was the response from those Nationalist ministers?
Criticism and talk without action.It takes time for any party to gain experience from being in power, to understand the wily ways of the civil service, to deal with the dismay of not being able to administer the needs of the people who put you into power overnight.
This applies to Sinn Féin and to the SDLP as well as all of the other parties. But, if they cannot even protect the Broadcasting Fund for the Irish language then the question must be asked about their strategy, about their priorities and their abilities as politicians.
There is no way that Edwin Poots will calm the swelling of the Irish language and its people in the North. But he can damage and delay lots of things. He can also destroy worthwhile enterprises.
The six Nationalist ministers are failing to show leadership and the Irish language community will pay the price.
Good post – Mr Poots not a very rational person. Don’t understand how he is in government in any post.
Poots seems to be one of the better ministers given that its quite a difficult ministry.
Hmm..
Some people claim that there’s a mechanism to go back to the British..
I know we have done this b4 to the nth – but if an ILA is to be effective then it needs to be passed by westminster to cover the DVLA etc……but let’s not debate it…again.
Dewi
It’s a devolved issue.
Wishful thinking won’t change that.
None of this is suprising. [Play the ball - edited moderator] Both the DUP are playning a suicidal game of keep your friends close and your enemies even closer. Sinn Féin have already succeded in removing the Paisleys from their power base and their rule of the party and cult. Gauging unionist opinion on this web site these fascist leanings have much support amongst unionist community. Its part of unionist culture not to think outside the propaganda their leaders feed them.
If I were a unionist anti-gaeilge bigott I wouldn’t be feelin so smug about things. Its all smoke and daggers in politics and there are things going on in the background in
europe
should read
both the DUP and Sinn Féin on line 3
Ó Néill’s piece is excellent, spot on as ever. The reality is that SF and the SDLP know that whilst there are votes to be ENDSURED with pro-Irish language policies there are few votes to be lost except as the result of a direct assault.
This is due to the simple fact that outhwith West Belfast Irish speakers and their supporters do not exist in high enough concentrations to have a real impact.
Both parties know that Irish speakers will simply continue to vote for one or other of them due to the simple fact that no alternative exists.
Should an alternative be created? In my opinion, no. Not now at least. It would only serve to alienate non Irish speaking nationalists at a time when ‘converts’ are still badly needed.
However, would a one issue candidate standing in the one area were an impact could be had, West Belfast, have a positive effect? I think so.
Many people have indicated to me at least that it is believed that around 2,500 voters in the constituency would vote for a pro Gaelic candidate and send a clear message to SF / SDLP. Not enough to win a seat but certainly enough to ensure that SF would not take a clean sweep.
A high risk strategy, a very high risk strategy and whilst I am of the opinion that for the Irish language to survive a degree of Gaelic separatism is necessary (i.e. Social Clubs, Gaelscoileanna, Radio Stations, Neo-Gaeltachtaí), I believe that it should be keep to the necessary minimum. Direct electoral action on the language issue would take things to a new level.
Then there is the question of the candidate, probably not that important who as long as the person is not a complete idiot. The real question is who would have the balls to run.
Sinn Féin in particular have gambled that only a small proportion of their electorate actually care about the Irish language. I will have to reserve judgement on that on.
But I would suggest that whilst Irish speakers may not be a key demographic in the North for Sinn Féin, in the South I suspect they maybe a vital 1-2% of Sinn Féin 8% and the loss of the Broadcasting Fund, the result of 30 years of campaigning will be felt all over Ireland.
I take my hat of to Edwin Poots, he has engaged his enemy and found that their guardians have run away. Will Séadanta return to stand once again in the Bearna Baoil?
Anybody ever hear Bertie Ahern trying to speak the obligatory cupla focail ? Sean Lemass -arguably the most effective of Irish Taoisigh and a pragmatic nationalist /republican could’nt speak a word of Irish .
The lesson for those who wish to support the Irish language in Northern Ireland is fairly straightforward . Don’t depend on the politicians . The latter (of all parties ) are primarily interested in loot and power) . Despite 90 years of ‘independence’ in the Republic you could probably count on one or two hands the number of Irish politicians who were fluent in the language at least fluent enough to read a newspaper .
Poots may be more rational than ye might think . After all if Nationalist and Republican politicians don;t speak up for the language why should he ?
As for the content of the article..
“There are five Nationalist ministers in Stormont as well as one junior minister. Six people who state that they are in favour of the Irish language.”
Therefore all other considerations by each and every minister are secondary to one lobby group?
Don’t think it works like that.
Try asking each individual minister what their objectives were in the budget.
Assuming they were lobbied..
It may amaze people but I feel rather sorry for the Irish language lobby. They were promised if not the earth the moon and the stars, then, quite a lot.
They appear to be a casualty of SF (and to a lesser extent the SDLP) taking them for granted. As gaelgannaire has correctly observed the calculation is that these votes will not leave SF and as such there is no great political need to pursue them or support for the Irish language.
Can I suggest a possible option for the Irish language lobby. Before I do so I suspect it is a fairly disparate group and I am unclear if there is a unified leadership.
However, I suggest that the supporters of the language now very clearly castigate SF (and the SDLP) for their failure to support them, make clear that they are in no way linked to SF. I know they are not necessarily linked but I only know this from reading this web site for several months. You need to make it abundantly clear to the unionist community that whilst most of you may well be nationalists you are not simply SF talking in Irish.
Then approach, lobby and woo Poots and lots of other unionists. Find assorted Prod Irish speakers to help you. Drag some Scots Gaelic speakers down from Lewis to help. Then propose some cost neutral things and see what happens.
Although the failure of SF to support the Irish language may be seen as a failing by the Irish language lobby; it could actually be a blessing in disguise. It might give the opportunity for the Irish language to be divorced from politics and be seen as what it is just a language and not in some way the private property of the republican movement. The above is a very long term strategy and it offers much less immediate rewards than trying to get concrete benefits from SF support. However, SF seem to be to quote the King James Version A broken reed. At this point you do not seem to have much to lose.
Turgon,
“lobby and woo Poots and lots of other unionists.”
It is my understanding that Poots refuses to engage the ‘lobby’. No direct meeting have taken place.
“Find assorted Prod Irish speakers to help you. Drag some Scots Gaelic speakers down from Lewis to help. Then propose some cost neutral things and see what happens.”
Sometimes I actually believe that you believe that these things don’t happen Turgon.
I got sent the following link which exposes the SF IRA manipulation of the Irish Language:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/minister-has-no-problem-with-exira-killer-in-top-job-1275093.html
Since the Good Friday Agreement, Sinn Fein and ex-IRA prisoner groups have set up dozens of Irish language and cultural organisations in the North and the Border area which have been heavily subsidised by Irish, EU and British taxpayers. Hundreds of millions of euro have been paid out under the ‘peace’ funding that followed the IRA ceasefire and the 1998 Agreement.
Foras disburses around €20m a year to groups some of which are Sinn Fein fronts. Fifteen million euro comes from the Irish Exchequer annually and the equivalent of €5m comes from the British.
Mac Cormaic (formerly McCormack), from the Bogside of Derry, learned Irish in the Maze, and on his release moved to Galway and took a course in NUI, where he was at one stage president of the students’ union. He has been a contributor to Sinn Fein’s newspaper An Phoblacht. Republican sources said he was regarded as one of the key ideologues in the party.
One of the key strategies employed by Sinn Fein in its efforts to become a dominant force in Ireland has been to influence the arts and cultural worlds as well as the media. An Irish-language activist in the North, who has no associations with Sinn Fein and did not wish to be named, said the party has been imposing a “hegemony” on the Irish language, particularly in west Belfast.
“That is the problem with Irish language organisations. You have to fight people who have this active service unit mentality. No one has that sort of energy. You can’t speak Irish in west Belfast unless you are in the organisation.”
P & J,
That article is pure nonsense. I also dont believe the person quoted actually exists.
It was in the Sunday Independent.
However, I suggest that the supporters of the language now very clearly castigate SF (and the SDLP) for their failure to support them, make clear that they are in no way linked to SF. I know they are not necessarily linked but I only know this from reading this web site for several months. You need to make it abundantly clear to the unionist community that whilst most of you may well be nationalists you are not simply SF talking in Irish.
I think that if you’ve been following Lá Nua in the past while – and perhaps you haven’t – you will have seen a very critical line emerging about Sinn Féin’s bona fides on the Irish language. Several SFers have a strong commitment to the language, not least among them Gerry Adams himself, but that hasn’t translated into effective action to promote or protect the language at government level. The point is well made in Eoghan’s article that the SDLP’s Ritchie and McGimpsey of the UUP both ensured they weren’t going to be short changed out of the budget – but that SF/SDLP didn’t ensure that the Irish Language would get a fair crack of the whip by standing up for it around the Executive Table. Who can say that the Irish Language Broadcast Fund, fought for and won BEFORE the sharing of power, would not have emerged enhanced with some effective horsetrading rather than with a huge question mark over its future.
While the impression continues to exist among some of the less well informed that the Irish language community is an extension of SF, (CF Jim Cusack’s libellous article in the Sunday Independent etc) the reality is that SF can’t count on the Irish language community anymore, unless they buck up their act. And while they may not take political action against SF, they may not be as keen to come out and vote for them. Thus the birth of the Gaelscoil/Cultúrlann ‘nationalist’.
SF and to a lesser extent the SDLP, who don’t appear to have noticed what’s happening, need to come up with a plan B to ensure that the Irish language doesn’t suffer at the hands of Poots. The appointment of Poots as DCAL minister has been a disaster not alone for the Irish language but for culture and the arts generally. And it was handed to the DUP on a plate by SF.
A suggested plan B is to suggest to the Irish government – and lobby them effectively in this regard – to make the payment of the promised €60m innovation fund to Empey conditional on the Irish language being properly and adequately resourced.
I won’t hold my breath…
gaelgannaire,
No I do believe they happen. You have already convinced me to a considerable degree of the merits of some of your cause.
Convincing a political anorak is, however, of little import; you need to convince lots and lots of ordinary sensible Northern Irish people, especially Prods.
I wish you well in this enterprise but I do observe that the more distance you put between yourselves and SF the easier you will find that. I know SF have proffered help for their own cynical motives but firstly they have been no help and secondly any help they might provide will simply stoke unionist suspicion.
When my local GAA club was taking a course of action that could have resulted in the closing of the local GaelScoil (promoted by the SDLP MLA), I as a non-gaelgoir had to make representations to the club and leaflet the community on the issue along with concerned parents of pupils while the local shinners sat tucked up in their beds not to be seen.
Sinn Fein and ex-IRA prisoner groups have set up dozens of Irish language and cultural organisations in the North and the Border area -peaceandjustice
hey there P&J;there is lots of Loyalist terrorists who speak english, and no doubt would say they speak ulster-scots…..should kids be stopped from learning to speak?????
where do you come up with your nonsense, they have to be christmas cracker jokes, because what you say is well past its sell-by-date !
Sorry, I should make it clear: the SDLP MLA was actively promoting a line of action that would close the Gael Scoil (planning objections in his name), the shinners were just too busy to help out with leaflets? they were asked.must have been busy? (éirígí did help out though)
“… while the local shinners sat tucked up in their beds not to be seen.”
Of course, Mark, if the school had closed they would have had reason to cry oppression, no?
Sinn Féin have been the blight of the Irish-language movement since it’s inception. I genuinely find their attitude to the language sickening and I don’t blame many unionists for being driven away from the language and made to be think that concern for it can only be politically motivated.
The Irish language is a part of the identity and traditions of a people. It has to be preserved and efforts should be made in that direction.
At the same time, with the increase in immigration and the influence of a more European ethos through business and other connections, I’m not convinced that Irish is up to it – it may in fact be more of an obstacle. It’s a hard language to learn. I tried and didn’t get too far. But maybe that was my orange ancestors expressing indignation from the grave.
As for the Shinners backing off on it. I don’t think it’s selling out at all. I think it’s more common sense. The chances of an Irish speaking revival that knocks English off its pedestal is a long shot. Many indigenous languages have suffered similar neglect, and in almost every case efforts to revive them fail. They retain a level of practical use in rural areas and in the art and music of the peoples who preserve the tradition, but for these languages to become the language of state, business and the media would take some sort of junta that mandates the use of the language in law.
Last time I was in Donegal I heard Irish spoken and it was a beautiful thing. I hope it can be kept alive as the first language of a people, but I can’t see it replacing English on the big stage.
“At the same time, with the increase in immigration and the influence of a more European ethos through business and other connections, I’m not convinced that Irish is up to it – it may in fact be more of an obstacle.”
Ironically, it was just that that got me back into Irish – realising that having one’s “own” language (aside from English which is ultimately no-one’s at this stage) is a crucial part of the European mainstream.
I realised it first in Dublin when living and working alongside continental Europeans, effectively for the first time. Having now returned from two years of living and working on the Continent, I can testify that this is a genuine realisation. Dumping the parochial and political orthodoxies of Irish that I was raised with was a difficult transition, but necessary things to exorcise, and I feel better for it.
If Poots did something for the Irish language, how many speakers would vote DUP?
Might be none, but then I’ve heard that catholics on Rathlin Island vote DUP because Ian Paisely went out of his way to get them electricity.
This entire thread is based on the desirability of intertwining the Irish language with Irish nationalist – if you cannot see the error in doing that I suggest you go sit in a darkened room for some time
Peace and Justice is as usual full of crap and the article he linked to is wrong. I’m from East Belfast, born to a Protestant family, a family involved to a degree in “the other side” of the conflict yet when I expressed an interest in learning Gaeilge Réamonn Giffen of An Droichead bent over backwards to accomodate me and my sister.
The Irish language is a victim of politicisation by people who are now more interested in being in power than policy. It’s a pity for the language that it lost its Presbyterian interest.
BTW can’t believe the old chestnut about Paisley working for Catholic people has resurfaced on this thread. That was part of the old Paisley myth. Oh he does a lot for the Catholics y’know.
The Executive is still in it’s early days and some items, like sorting out policing, are more urgent than others. If the Irish language lobby can expand beyond its current roots that is all to the good, and equally if some of the loyalist groups want to move towards developing a cultural basis for their community then that should be encouraged as well.
Whether it’s a revival of shinty or Scottish dancing it should be encouraged. Let’s widen our horizons. It’s a long time since I’ve been to a Feis but I seem to remember Scottish sword dancing so we could even have a cross community aspect to it which should help justify that essential grant.
Yeah pith, just as Liam Neeson a man who in his autobiography claimed, probably quite accurately, that as a catholic in Ballymena he felt like a second class citizen. Yet more recently Liam has been full of stories of sneaking in to watch Paisley’s sermons.
Pounder,
A lot of students in the 60′s took the opportunity to visit the Martyr’s Memorial since even at that stage he was an international phenomenon. Should we sneer at them all or just the people whose views you appear to dislike?
To me it appeared that when he was asked a question about whether he would play Paisley in a film of his life rather than give a blunt answer which might have caused offence he took the opportunity to tell an amusing anecdote. It showed the sheer class of the man, just as your comment cast an interesting light on how we should judge your future remarks.
Interesting piece. So much for all the spin about Irish not being a nationalist thing.
I would suggest that putting all the eggs in the basket of a Language Act was a tactical error. It was pretty much an all-or-nothing approach and Unionist political ill-will towards it was perfectly clear. The impression I got was the prioritisation of an Act in this way was the choice/decision of the Irish language lobby which SDLP and SF adopted. Is this impression correct? If it is then the failure is not entirely the two nationalist parties.
I would point out that there is still the strategies for Irish and Ulster-Scots that the Executive are legally required to produce and I understand DCAL will be seeking input from the DCAL committee.
[i]Pounder,
A lot of students in the 60’s took the opportunity to visit the Martyr’s Memorial since even at that stage he was an international phenomenon. Should we sneer at them all or just the people whose views you appear to dislike?
To me it appeared that when he was asked a question about whether he would play Paisley in a film of his life rather than give a blunt answer which might have caused offence he took the opportunity to tell an amusing anecdote. It showed the sheer class of the man, just as your comment cast an interesting light on how we should judge your future remarks.
Posted by lib2016 on Jan 31, 2008 @ 10:22 AM[/i]
Hell I like Neeson, us Jedi gotta stick together. I just wonder what was behind the change in attitude, and more importantly will Ballymena ever actually honour it’s most famous son?
I have met so many people from the Western Islands of Scotland here in the West of Ireland at language festivals, and eventhough the peoples are different the craic is always good. Its a pity that people are missing out in a shared interest.
fair_deal,
I think that what was underestimated by most people was Poots agression on the issue.
I think it was assumed he would at least make an effort to appear to be neutral, but he is playing to his electorate and playing very well. His mandate is clear, to halt the growth of the Irish language, and that is putting it diplomatically.
My understanding of his motivations would be that he is inspired by intolerance and a desire to complete anglicisation but that is irrelevant.
BTW, it was Sinn Féin who pushed the Irish Language Act up the agenda, Pobal, Conradh na Gaeilge, Na Gaeil Óga et. al. were not actually party to the St. Andrews. agreement. That is a simple fact.
It was SF who hailed the Language Act, which was a medium to long term aim for Irish language organisations. SF have not made it a deal breaker however, making its provision in St. Andrews irrelevant.
But I think that Eoghan Ó Néill’s final remarks that Poots efforts will ultimately fail does ring true for most Irish speakers, it will just force people to work harder.
It should also be pointed out that whilst all Irish speakers will be affected by the binning of the Broadcast Fund, it should be noted that virutually none of that money went anywhere near West Belfast, in fact most of it went to production companies in North Down and South Belfast so I think some unionists are going to affected too.
Lá Nua have constantly pointed out that SF had the oppurtunity to take the Culture brief. I believe they did this in order to avoid Irish language issues which would have soured the bedding in of the executive.
Therefore, whilst the focus is on Poots people are deflected from realising that Conor Murphy, Michelle Gildernew and Catríona Ruane (and Ritchie of course) could introduce language schemes into their departments, which they are refusing to do.
It must also be pointed out that no legal reason prevents road signage being made bilingual in nationalist areas, this is not under Edwin Poots’ department, but Conor Murphy’s.
I see little evidence of progress here other the the efforts of people on the ground.
I should point out that I have always been of the opinion that Dominic Ó Brollacháin was the strongest representative of Irish speakers in northern political life, his silence annoys me the most I must admit.
gaelgannaire
“It must also be pointed out that no legal reason prevents road signage being made bilingual in nationalist areas, this is not under Edwin Poots’ department, but Conor Murphy’s.”
Wrong.
The days of solo ministerial runs are over thanks to St Andrews. That is why we will still have grammar schools selecting by ability despite the ideology of the muppet occupying the Education portfolio.
“I would suggest that putting all the eggs in the basket of a Language Act was a tactical error. It was pretty much an all-or-nothing approach and Unionist political ill-will towards it was perfectly clear. The impression I got was the prioritisation of an Act in this way was the choice/decision of the Irish language lobby which SDLP and SF adopted. Is this impression correct? If it is then the failure is not entirely the two nationalist parties.”
Actually FD, I think that it wouldn’t have made a blind bit of difference. Unionists, it is clear despise Irish and will block any progress on it.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/article3384966.ece
“Limited signage” would probably give the DUP something to point at and a little cover on killing the ILA, but no – veto threat. SF really need to start giving a few pointed reminders they have a veto of their own.
Tá mé ag foghlaim Gaeilge… It’s a very interesting (and difficult) language. The tone of that article was verging on the hysterical though if you ask me.
kensei
in the politics of double veto who has the advantage- those determined to preserve the status quo or those determined to change it?
Bonarlaw,
I understand your point, I was not clear, the department have always intimated that bilingual directional signage was in fact illegal.
There are unable to point specifically to the piece of legislation which makes it so.
Perhaps you yourself can?
DM,
Eoghan Ó Néil is a highly respected broadcast and print journalist and a person whose opinions Irish speakers in general would respect.
I fail to see how the article could be described as histerical.
What specifically are you refering to?
[i]Minister Poots has succeeded to throw an Irish language act in the rubbish bin. There is lots of room in that same bin for the Irish language Broadcasting fund. [b] There is also plenty of room for other Irish language aspects of life also.[/b][/i]
[i]But he can damage and delay lots of things. He can also destroy worthwhile enterprises.
The six Nationalist ministers are failing to show leadership and the Irish language community will pay the price.[/i]
I thought this was a little OTT. It’s not as if the Irish-speaking community in NI will collapse without Edwin Poots’ approval. Of course I take his point about the broadcast fund etc but does the strength of the movement not lie in the people themselves and the language? As someone else said, recourse to politicians isn’t a great idea, self-serving as they tend to be. Just my own thoughts, I wasn’t trying to have a go at Mr Ó Néill.
“in the politics of double veto who has the advantage- those determined to preserve the status quo or those determined to change it?”
Tackled this before. Everyone wants something. And I believe Poots cut money to Irish Broadcasting. Couldn’t SF have issued a petition of concern and vetoed it?
Pith: “BTW can’t believe the old chestnut about Paisley working for Catholic people has resurfaced on this thread.”
Except that it is true – I have also heard directly from someone (a catholic) of Paisly visiting his mum to help her. But then you’re probably just some indoctrinated yank who doesn’t know any better & doesn’t want to either.
DM
This is the second last paragraph.
“There is no way that Edwin Poots will calm the swelling of the Irish language and its people in the North. But he can damage and delay lots of things. He can also destroy worthwhile enterprises.”
I think it is quite clear and rational.
I have said it again and again on Slugger and to people I meet – It is not in the power of unionists to affect the amount of Irish spoken in Ireland. Only Irish speakers can affect that.
So I also say when nationalists ‘blame the brits’ for not being able to speak Irish that that is only half true. No one is stopping anyone from buying a copy of ‘Now your talking’.
However, as Eoghan points out problems can be created.
Gaelgannaire
I think you are over-estimating the centrality of Poots and his personal attitudes in all this.
The DUP made it clear from the announcement of St Andrews that they were not up for it, the UUP tried to bash them with it, Robinson got Hain to commit in parliament that it would go to the assembly if it was restored quick enough and that preventing it was given as a reason for going with devolution etc were all pretty good inidcators it was not a runner whether or not the DUP or Poots ended up with the job.
“BTW, it was Sinn Féin who pushed the Irish Language Act up the agenda, Pobal, Conradh na Gaeilge, Na Gaeil Óga et. al. were not actually party to the St. Andrews. agreement. That is a simple fact.”
Pobal produced a detailed document on an irish language act in February 2006, some 7 months before St Andrews.
This document describes the demand for an act thus:
“The need for appropriate domestic legislation for the Irish language in the north is one that has been clear to our community for many years. It has been a consistent demand from Irish speakers for over thirty years. It is an issue that POBAL, as the non-governmental umbrella organisation for the Irish speaking community in the north, has encountered again and again in different forms in the course of our work.
Since our inception, it has been a question that we have consistently raised at all levels of government and in the broader society.”
This document says it was the output of an 18 month consultation process and describes the document as:
“The Irish Language Act for NI’ document seeks to reflect the views and needs of the Irish speaking community and others who have taken part in the consultative processes and the best international practice on language rights.”
Granted SF may have crowed “Look what we got you” but the Pobal document would seem to me that the idea was being pushed by the Irish langauge lobby before St Andrews and had been debated within it. The impression I gained from this was it was a clear and present wish of the irish language sector not medium or long term or are the Pobal claims an exaggeration or misrepresentation?
“in fact most of it went to production companies in North Down and South Belfast so I think some unionists are going to affected too.”
The Unionist parties don’t have a great relationship with the Arts/Media sector in general so don’t think that’ll particualrly change attitudes.
“Therefore, whilst the focus is on Poots people are deflected from realising that Conor Murphy, Michelle Gildernew and Catríona Ruane (and Ritchie of course) could introduce language schemes into their departments, which they are refusing to do.”
Do you know what reasons they give for this?
“It must also be pointed out that no legal reason prevents road signage being made bilingual in nationalist areas”
There are already provisions for bi-lingual street signage on the statute book. On the broader issue of road signage Jim Wells is claiming recent comments by CM put this in doubt
http://www.dup.org.uk/articles.asp?Article_ID=3096
Well fair enough. I personally don’t think Poots has as much power as that article would have you believe.
[i]I have said it again and again on Slugger and to people I meet – It is not in the power of unionists to affect the amount of Irish spoken in Ireland. Only Irish speakers can affect that.[/i]
That’s the point I was making too. Of course funding etc is a different matter, I accept that, but how much difference do you think it would make if we had Ms Gildernew or similar in the DCAL post? I suppose we will find out in due course anyway.
This entire thread is based on the desirability of intertwining the Irish language with Irish nationalist – if you cannot see the error in doing that I suggest you go sit in a darkened room for some time
Thi
Elvis would have a point except he’s looking at the problem from a skewed perspective.
It’s not so much desireable to link the Irish language to Irish nationalism, it’s evolved out of necessity given the policy of unionist leaders throughout the generations to denigrate the Irish language at every opportunity. Their attitude has been regressive and repressive on this and other subjects, such as their constant denigration of ‘human rights’.
The attitude of the likes of Willie Frazer underlines the need for unionist politicians to inform themselves properly in order to lead their followers to a position where they are not ignorant about this issue. Promoting the Irish Language or Northern Gaelic if they wish could be a way of enhancing their Britishness and elevating them to equal status alongside the Welsh and the Scots.
fair_deal,
“I think you are over-estimating the centrality of Poots and his personal attitudes in all this.”
I think Mr Poots is representative of the views of his party.
“Pobal produced a detailed document on an irish language act in February 2006, some 7 months before St Andrews.”
Of course, but no lobby group expects instant results, I respectfully suggest that not even Pobal expected to achieve an language act within months.
“Granted SF may have crowed “Look what we got you” but the Pobal document would seem to me that the idea was being pushed by the Irish langauge lobby before St Andrews and had been debated within it.
True but again, I still think that medium to long term is a fair assessment. People always realised that achieving an Irish language act would take many years of hard work. That is still my personal position.
“Do you know what reasons they give for this?”
Nope. I do know anyone else who does either.
“There are already provisions for bi-lingual street signage on the statute book.”
Not for directional signage, but again there is no specific prohibition.
Glad to see Eoghan’s article getting coverage in English language circles. His arguments are spot on and are held by the vast majority of Irish speakers.
Gaelic is on the rise throughout Ireland and Scotland, nothing really can change that, but Minister Poots’ decision to cut funding for the ILBF will have a negative impact on Irish language broadcast media. A similar decision in Scotland or Wales would not be tolerated, even by the Conservatives.
SF and SDLP have a lot to answer for – why most of them agreed to the budget, why they didn’t take the DCAL ministry etc.
The Irish Gaelic community will continue to lobby for increased recognition but recent developments have illustrated that they cannot depend on supposedly pro-Irish language politicians.
Ar aghaidh linn.
“I respectfully suggest that not even Pobal expected to achieve an language act within months.”
The report clearly states this was a long-standing demand eg 30 years prior to its production and a clear opportunity, the ongoing talks, provided an opportunity for it.
However, it is probably too minor a point to obsess over and over-emphasising what is contained within one document.
A point I missed earlier how does the Irish language not being political equate with:
“road signage being made bilingual in nationalist areas”
A point I missed earlier how does the Irish language not being political equate with:
“road signage being made bilingual in nationalist areas.”
The aim organisation asking for Irish/English road signs are Na Ceithearna Coille.
They are seeking “bilingual road sigange in areas that are pro-Gaelic”, or wish it erected, not nationalist areas.