Sinn Fein, their faltering game and one big European chance for glory…
Catriona Ruane probably has the stiffest test of all Sinn Fein’s new ministers. For that reason, I’m not sure that Frank’s analysis suggesting she’s performed poorly alongside her colleagues Conor Murphy and Michelle Gildernew, even if that was the impression given by northern delegates at a recent ‘closed door’ meeting in Dublin. Neither have faced the challenge she does in carrying forward actionable reforms in an area that is both prominent and which splits neatly down the Nationalist /Unionist divide. Nevertheless, he is less than impressed with the total impact of Sinn Fein, both on the governmental front, or in the decidedly partisan way they have dealt with public order problems such as the killing of Paul Quinn. He’s less than impressed with the response of the northern leadership to failure in the south:
It is telling that despite Fine Gael’s success Kenny fired Phil Hogan and a question-mark remains over Kenny’s leadership. Rabbitte and the authors of the Mullingar Strategy in Labour have been cast aside. Sinn Féin’s upper leadership remains intact and the move of key northern activists like Declan Kearney into positions of authority in the party in the South suggests that Adams, having listened to the opinion of Southern members for the last six months has decided to ignore it and continue to centralise control in the mistaken belief that someone other than him, and he alone, is responsible for the party’s disastrous election campaign.
The party’s response to the Paul Quinn murder is being distinctive by its very repetition:
The murder of Paul Quinn brought out the standard Sinn Féin approach of blackening the name of the victim with accusations of criminality that seem unproven. What seems more clear is the eager desire among their political opponents to hi-jack the Quinn’s case to attack Sinn Féin, but they would have no campaign to manipulate were it not for Quinn’s murder and how Sinn Féin handled it.
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He finishes with a useful corrective to Vincent Browne’s view that Sinn Fein is likely to be pro the EU Treaty in the upcoming referendum:
Ahh Vincent, take thy head out from the Mahon Tribunal and read a paper. Sinn Féin’s party leadership, and McDonald & Adams in particular, have been making clear their intention to not simply oppose the Reform Treaty, but to lead the opposition to it. Most recent press statement from the party on it is here. What makes Browne’s error all the more mystifying is that the former Sinn Féin European Director Eoin O Broin now writes for his magazine. This referendum campaign gives Sinn Féin the opportunity to portray itself as the ‘real’ opposition to establishment centrist politics and even the possibility of fighting a winning campaign, which would be a massive boost to a party going into Local Elections in 2009, and European Elections where only a miracle will save their seat in Dublin.
In truth, Sinn Fein has much more in common with UKIP on Europe, since both are concerned with protecting what’s left of their respective countries’ independent sovereignty.
With most other parties in favour, Frank may have fingered one way for the party to get back some of its equilibrium south of the border.
I think you’re right Mick. although all the knives have been out for Ruane she has succeeded in getting rid of the 11+ no matter what compromise takes its place. She rid out the NIPSA row and showed plenty of steel on the issue. Voters are inclined to like a strong willed politician, so come the next electoral test I think Ruane might do better than some people on the far left would like.
sms: she has succeeded in getting rid of the 11+ no matter what compromise takes its place.
No she didn’t. Martin McGuinness got rid of the 11+. Catriona Ruane’s job has been to try to find agreement on a replacement. There has been exactly 0% progress on that!
She rid out the NIPSA row and showed plenty of steel on the issue.
On the contrary, she was putty in the hands of the bureaucrats.
She certainly hasn’t made any efforts to stop some schools from operating their own version of the 11+ in the future meaning it’ll continue without any oversight. So instead of ending it she has just failed to stop it being privatised.
mark, runciter and reader
so you all think that the 11+, in its present form, will continue beyond next year
sms,
Some schools have said they fully intend to use their own version. As yet Ruane has done nothing to prevent them being funded if they continue with a process against policy or to prevent Primary Schools from assisting with the process.
I think for SF to move further to the right over the EU would be a grave mistake, OK the may end up on the winning side in the referendum but it will not stop the move towards an intergrated EU. What SF should be doing is demanding the democratization of Europe, for that is a battle worth fighting.
I would be interested to hear more about those British Eurosceptic’s Mick alleges that SF had been leaning on. Frank is absolutely correct in that Adams has decided to move the party to the right as many of us predicted he would. All his talk about consulting the membership was simply more control freakery.
Perhaps it is time to ask what is the point of SF?
Perhaps it is time to ask what is the point of SF?
The voters will be asking that as well. Sinn Fein and the DUP are protest parties. They approach voters on the basis that a vote for them is a signal to the powers that be that they’re against something. Neither of them have any coherent strategies about how to build, extend or improve anything. The 11+ farce is pretty representative of this.
mark
what you are saying is that the 11+ will be gone
but that some other kind of selection, as yet
unspecified, may be introduced by the grammar schools. I suppose that is a possibility and could well be akin to the “banding” system used by many secondary schools already. But my main point is that the 11+ will no longer exist and that is all that was ever promised.
Mick Hall – you have email
Mick,
Good post.
The failure of Adams to move on is clearly a sign of his arrogance and something that seems to permeate Sinn Fein as a party, even McGuinness smacks of it. Over on Balrog many comments have been left to him about Adams hanging on in when others have been hung out to dry due to the democratic wishes of the electorate. The main excuse for Adams as leader is that he is party ‘president’ and didn’t actually stand despite spearheading the campaign, a strategy which I suppose protects him from immediate failure yet leaves people like Frank and us thinking that Adams’ campaign strategy was poor and becuase of this he should go.
The performances of SF in the Assembly have been poor, as you have mentioned on occasions, but it is clear that abstaining from parliamentary bodies has stunted the ability of the party to speak on its feet on the floor of the Northern Ireland assembly.
Anyway, in terms of Ruane, yes she has difficulties but the question should be asked of the wanting DUP as to why it left so vital, so key, a department for others to bring in fundamental changes.
Education is the best form of social welfare, the springboard if you like and Unionists have wandered off too many times using familiar tactics of blasting opponents from the outside while they are in trying to make changes for the best.
In relation to change and educational change the question has to be asked is change such a bad thing. Change is necessary and is something we all must embrace and if it is embrace meaningfully with relevant educationalists involved then the determination should be deliver change for the *better*.
Mick Hall: “I think for SF to move further to the right over the EU would be a grave mistake, OK the may end up on the winning side in the referendum but it will not stop the move towards an intergrated EU. What SF should be doing is demanding the democratization of Europe, for that is a battle worth fighting. ”
A pity the powers that be don’t like that notion, Mick — too much of a chance that the little people might vote down the negotiated capitulation their political masters seek to foist off on them, such as the EU Constitution. The Dutch and French votes on that particular dead letter has like as not all but driven a stae in the heart of honest democracy, for fear the sheeple might actually say “no.”
The traditional case for unionism has collapsed so we are now being subjected to a barrage of anti-Sinn Fein sophistry.
Sinn Fein are to far left/insufficiently left. They refuse to take the blame when hard men (including demobbed republicans) fight amongst each other so they don’t care about their fellow citizens/are identified with those same hard men. And on it goes.
You still don’t get it. Powersharing is the only game in town and unionists missed their chance to play a leading part in it.
Loyalists aren’t going to flock back to the lodges – they know co-operation is the only way forward for both sides.
If unionism wants to make a comeback it has to redefine itself. This sort of nonsense just shows that they have no constructive way forward.
“so we are now being subjected to a barrage of anti-Sinn Fein sophistry.”
Are you saying the people of Ireland, the electorate, tricked Sinn Fein out of votes here or something or what.
Adams was shite on TV, he put across outdated arguments of too heavy a northern substance especially by wanting to Pattenise, perhaps he meant patronise, the Gardai, this was a statement by him that stood out as being contradictory in terms of wanting to, seemingly, Tory-ise the Irish Police service. At least if I were Irish I would think that’s what he wanted to do.
Patten = Tory = Hong Kong Governor = Discriminatory Police Service, etc.
And that’s only picking up on one example. TV is everything nowadays you gotta do it there, he didn’t do it, he’s still there, why – is he special – devine perhaps?
I’m not sure being on the winning side of a No referendum vote will build a profile as the party of true opposition. It didn’t deliver anything sustainable after Nice 1 and 2 for either SF or the Greens. To be the voice of opposition you wouldn’t be showing a willingness to get into bed with FF at almost any cost in both cases.
To be a credible opposition you need to be consistently credible as an alternative.
Strategy is a little strange. If I were in Sinn Fein I’d completely focus on the North – where they know what is going on. And try to reach out to urban Protestants.
All the small parties did badly in the South and as the Greens are demonstrating so well the price of influence is a willingness to compromise.
Sinn Fein lost one seat and you guys are writing them off. It won’t happen that easily and the proof of that is their willingness to go along with whatever it takes to start building a new society here.
People have rejected the old ‘Not an inch’ type politics, not Sinn Fein. It is the old intransigents in the UUP who have lost all credibility not the two largest parties at Stormont.
Most of the above may be irrelevant considering the Paul Quinn murder. They had their chance and they blew it.
New Yorker,
You may be right but my information, anecdotal it’s true, is that the locals in South Armagh are more than a little shocked by some of the people Bradley etc. are getting close to.
We all know that Sinn Fein and earlier the RA had some very dodgy connections as all revolutionary groups do. They are seen locally in NI as having gone to huge lengths over the last twenty years in their bid to clean up their act.
South Armagh is a special case, just like the Markets. Outsiders butting in, especially SDLP outsiders will get nowhere.
The republican tradition there predates the IRA or the setting up of the border,never mind one six-county party. They aren’t going to split over one killing however awful. As anyone with local connections is well aware much worse went on during the armed campaign when local volunteers went on the beer.
lib,
I buy some of the logic of that, but there are two questions arising: one the burtal corporate response to both killings; and the new ‘deadline’ of May 8th. One surely has a baring on the other?
Is a party that pleads political exceptionalism over the proper investigation of serious crime (Mr Adams declared Quinn a criminal within 48 hours of the murder) in a position to suggest they can properly handle oversight (albeit somewhat limited) of policing and justice with due probity?
“I’m not sure being on the winning side of a No referendum vote will build a profile as the party of true opposition.”
I’d disagree on that. I think Sinn Féin were able to use their success in the first Nice referendum and their position as a key part of the unsuccessful second campaign to good effect in the 2004 elections. Your point about failing to be a ‘real’ opposition when desperate to get into bed with FF is well-taken, but voters have short memories and SF is still, however validly, generally perceived as an anti-establishment party. The EU Reform Treaty will allow them to buttress that aspect of their support.
There are some interesting polling figures (EU wide, not Ireland specific) I saw a while back saying that while local issues still decide how voters cast their ballots in a European election, that figure is decreasing in comparison to an increasing amount who vote on EU issues.
If Sinn Féin is to achieve the almost impossible in keeping their European seat it will be by appealing to a certain section of the constituency who would not vote SF in Ireland, but believe there is a need for a critical voice in Europe. There’s a section of Fianna Fáil and of the left in particular looking for someone like that on Europe, albeit for different reasons.
Some schools have said they fully intend to use their own version. As yet Ruane has done nothing to prevent them being funded if they continue with a process against policy or to prevent Primary Schools from assisting with the process.
Correct, and that opens the prospect of the worst outcome of all, unless she outlaws academic selection for all schools in receipt of state funding, which I don’t think she can without the agreement of the DUP, which won’t be forthcoming.
In that event, we would have the real prospect of a pre-War situation where schools run what are de facto stand alone scholarship exams, which children in Primary Schools in working class areas are vastly less likely to be entered for in the first place. And less likely to succeed when they do, as the lack of a common curriculum will increase still further the value of private tuition, and plance a new premium on knowing through the golf club where your child’s best chances of securing a place lie.
CCMS may well whip their schools into line, and the handful of Controlled grammars can also be dealt with, but the majority of grammar schools which are Maintained and outside the Catholic sector will be able to do what they like. At which point, an awful lot of my neighbours on the Upper Antrim Road will lose their burning desire for a Catholic education if that means Bearnageeha and Little Flower and enter their own little flowers for entry exams at BRA, Inst, probably even Belfast High.
Therefore we will widen inequalities and risk losing our record of producing the highest proportion of working-class graduates in the British Isles.
It isn’t that there isn’t a need for reform, especially with demographic changes transforming grammar schools into de facto comprehensives for the middle-classes. But Catriona has fucked this one up big time. You know, she didn’t even try and get us and the SDLP onside (which she could have done) before she announced this in the Assembly. No harm to her, but she ain’t no playa.
Mick,
There’s so much hypocrisy over this killing that I am trying to be tactful about what I say – it’s not something I am comfortable with as regular posters will know.
Could I suggest that maybe the President of Sinn Fein has sources of information not available to the PSNI without drawing down a torrent of abuse on my head?
You can say that. And I might agree. But that is the larger part of the dilemma sketched out above.
Police services will only thirve under conditions of public trust. Effectively what you are describing is a privately owned secret service. Since the publicly owned secret service is currently (and for the foreseeable future) operating under zero scrutiny, you might say that’s a quid pro quo.
Apart from considerations of good governance, I’m not sure that that will suffice: especially when there are allegations against the very organisation to which the people providing the ‘intelligence’ to Mr Adams belong.
lib2016
As I understand it, most of the supporters for justice in the murder of Paul Quinn are primarily involved to see justice carried out in relation to his murder and determined that will be the end such acts against the local community. Also, the supporters are from a broad spectrum of political opinions. They enjoy considerable local support as many think it is time to move on and want murder and such acts consigned to the past. Many see SF as covering-up for this murder and many others to their own benefit and not to the wellbeing of the local community. This is a genuine grassroots movement set to gain further momentum next year. Governments and politicians would be unwise to ignore this movement: It is democratic, non-violent and has high moral principles as its guiding force.
This thread is like so many others on this board – a tired re-run of previous attacks on Sinn Fein rather than an attempt to put forward an alternative future or to find a new Unionist identity which has some credibility.
Has Slugger lost it’s way?
That last has been removed lib. I’m minded to move to a registration only model to help keep the abuse down to a minimum. But I think you’ll find this is a problem everywhere. I was up past two last night, trying to get some individuals to hit hard but straight. Not tonight however. I’m off to bed now. Night all!
Frank,
I’m not as sure as many that SF will lose the Dublin seat. The protest vote is there for the taking especially now the Greens are clearly propping up FF and Labour will have to suffer from a clear yes drive on the Treaty given de Rossa’s central role in drafting the original constitution. I’d think it is being heavily targeted with grassroots work (though have no way of knowing). And to be honest Mary Lou while not my cup of tea is a credible candidate who while justifiably light on work in the Institutions (babies and a long run trying to become a TD) has maintained a decent constituency profile beyond the targeted Dail constituency.
I’ll be watching the odds on this one, could be worth a punt.
Damn. I need to qualify that ‘not my cup of tea’ remark about ML. I meant it on a purely political level. She is absolutely my cup of tea as a human being.
“she has succeeded in getting rid of the 11+ no matter what compromise takes its place”
Only in Shinner speak.
Bye bye 11+. Hooray. welcome…either “academic selection” (doh) or poscode selection where thsoe nearest the good schools get in…which will benefit all the nice middle class kids anyway. Whoopeee. A great Shinner Victory.
Frank,
On another element of Euro 2009; even with a Dublin lose it could end up swings and roundabouts for SF (or two swings). I see a very strong chance of a gain in NW. It will be interesting to see if they split the profiling for a future Dail run, which is what I’d do, and run Padraig in Europe while keeping Pearse in the Seanad.
“In truth, Sinn Fein has much more in common with UKIP on Europe, since both are concerned with protecting what’s left of their respective countries’ independent sovereignty”
Agree completely Mick. The little Englanders and the Little Irelanders make great bedfellows.
“Adams, having listened to the opinion of Southern members for the last six months has decided to ignore it”
Sorry but the phrases ‘listening’ and the ‘SF leadership’ rarely ever did go hand in hand. Its always been a one way flow, we tell, you do, or else.
Their problem is that the ‘or else’ (literally) has much less force these days and, with less and less scope for the Brits to clear a path for them, voters in the North are realising that the policy cupboard (and the heads) are empty of new ideas, while those in the South dont want these culchies coming down telling them what to think and do.
Grievance only goes so far in the new dispensation
“..Sinn Fein has much more in common with UKIP..”
except that Sinn Fein accepts that Ireland’s future lies within the EU while the main aim of UKIP is British withdrawal from the EU. But don’t let the facts spoil a cheap gibe… they never have before.
I’m not a member of Sinn Fein but I have attended several public meetings and was reasonably impressed with their willingness to engage in debate with members of the public.
It seems a strange way to have built their base over the last decade or so while they were also getting rid of the old die-hards. Could you give us some hard facts about what goes on behind closed doors.
One of the things I found attractive about them is their party discipline. Obviously you prefer the old way the SDLP did things with everybody pointed in a different direction.
lib2016
Are you the last person in Ireland who believes anything that SF says? Check with your local sources in South Armagh for an update on SF veracity.
New Yorker,
I did…as I’ve posted before we heard all the same attacks after the McCartney murder but I did take the elementary precaution of ringing a few people just in case. After all these years people aren’t that easily fooled by black propaganda.
But if that’s the last weapon you have left then I suppose you may as well go on using it. To paraphrase Kipling the game is almost over so it doesn’t really matter anymore. The only judgement which will count in the long run is the one from the court of public opinion. That verdict will come in the local elections of 2009.
I think the death of SF has been greatly exaggerated. Despite everything, polls in the South sit at 7% – precisely where the were at the election. FF could well change the game, but there seems no chance that the SDLP will do anything. I don’t really sense any on the ground anger on the 11+ except for those who would have strongly opposed it anyway. The Quinn murder will probably do damage, but more in maintaining transfer repellence; is there really anyone who this attacks that wouldn’t have been driven off by the McCartney murder?
I also disagree you can lay the entire failure in the Southern elections on Adams. It was a complete leadership failure, and I don’t think anyone had a good game. Aside from that, is any serious player within SF seriously offering a credible alternative, even speaking about it? Adams is simply an easy target right now.
Similarly, there are noises about change in policy coming and we have yet to see what will come of that; and the point that SF is clearly struggling with the policing issue and that is probably what is driving central control seems to have been missed.
They weren’t going to remain and unbeatable electoral machine with unmatched forward momentum forever. We’ve hit the point where we see how they handle more failure. But there has been a lot of jumping the gun.
lib2016
There is certainly a parallel with the McCartney situation – the murder and cover-up go right to the top and that is widely held in the local area. I just spoke to a non-aligned person in the area. It was true with McCartney and it is true with Quinn. Two critical things are different this time: SF is in government and the murder occurred in the Republic. Government ministers involved in a cover-up and doing their dirty work across the border cannot be tolerated. The Dublin government must have a clean record on terrorist activities to maintain and attract foreign investment. At present, people are waiting with anxiety to see how they perform in an organized terrorist murder committed in their territory.
Kensei
You ask “is there really anyone who this attacks that wouldn’t have been driven off by the McCartney murder?” And the answer is that there are many in South Armagh and beyond (see my previous post). People in South Armagh are revulsed both that this happened to a local lad and that SF lied from the beginning. SF may be lying low in the area lately but the local people have very long memories.
The Dublin government must have a clean record on terrorist activities to maintain and attract foreign investment.
Do you honestly believe that the Irish State’s credentials are in question? You must have an oddly low opinion of it.
“At present, people are waiting with anxiety to see how they perform in an organized terrorist murder committed in their territory.”
Who? Compared to the noise following the McCartney murder this one has barely registered in the Republic, the UK, US or anywhere else.
Sinn Féin has a problem in that it is having difficulty engaging the southern electorate. I don’t know if the Lisbon Treaty is a way to do so. People will make up their own minds on this one and won’t think party politically.
Kensie and anyone else,
Do you feel that Gerry Adams not being a candidate in the last general election in the south played any role in SF’s failure in that poll.
George
You asked “Do you honestly believe that the Irish State’s credentials are in question? You must have an oddly low opinion of it.” I said they must have a clean record. To keep the clean record they have to fully follow through on the Quinn murder and thus dispel any suggestion that organized terrorist murders can take place on their territory and the murderers will get a pass. I don’t have a low opinion of the Dublin government, quite the contrary, but I will if they fail to fully address this matter.
Then you say “Who? Compared to the noise following the McCartney murder this one has barely registered in the Republic, the UK, US or anywhere else.” Who? – Some friends I was dining with on Wall Street two weeks ago asked me about it. It has received national coverage in the US as did the McCartney murder. And it’s obvious that the media of the Republic and the UK are covering it.
Mick Hall,
Gerry Adams isn’t from the Republic so him not running played no role.
People south of the border see Adams as the representative of his community, not theirs.
In my view, Sinn Féin’s failure had more to do with its failure to realise that people’s priorities were local, not constitutional or ideological.
Sinn Féin didn’t offer the local solutions necessary and there was a sense of desperation about the party in the last election.
It hopped from pillar to post with its policies, so much so that it didn’t even slighlty convince on the constitutional or ideological fronts.
Perhaps it took the electorate for granted, perhaps it is bankrupt of ideas.
New Yorker,
I said they must have a clean record. To keep the clean record they have to fully follow through on the Quinn murder and thus dispel any suggestion that organized terrorist murders can take place on their territory and the murderers will get a pass..
I find all this quite odd. Have you ever asked that the UK government have an impeccable record to protect its FDI?
Money follows stability not morality. The unfortunate truth is that virtually nobody cares about the Quinn murder, and definitely not if it destabilises the economic environment.
A whole host of terrorist murders seem to have gotten a pass in the UK and I never heard the chestnut of FDI being affected being raised as an argument. And certainly not at dinner parties on Wall Street.
Some friends I was dining with on Wall Street two weeks ago asked me about it. It has received national coverage in the US as did the McCartney murder. And it’s obvious that the media of the Republic and the UK are covering it.
I live in Ireland and the atmosphere regarding the Quinn murder pales into insignificance compared to the McCartney. I’ve been to a rake of dinner parties over the festive season and Sinn Féin or the Quinn murder haven’t come up once.
Global downturns, the fall of the dollar, house prices, the EU Treaty, cocaine, Katy French, job security, sub-prime mortgages and the credit crunch were much more popular.
George,
OK, if what you ay is true, and I think you are partially correct, surly Adams being seen as an outsider and by not offering himself up for election must have played a role in whether people voted for SF or not. After all he might be an outsider but he came on the southern TV etc and asked people to vote for his party, was this very fact counterproductive for SF and would they have been better to have had a southerner fronting their campaign.
Mick Hall,
I think you are looking for an answer to a question that even Sinn Féin haven’t been able to find.
I’ll try. It’s too easy to blame Adams for the election results. People look at him as the leader of a movement rather than a party so it was natural that he would make an appearance.
That wasn’t the problem. His performance wasn’t even the problem because if things were going well then he wouldn’t have been needed to step into the breach to shore up the faltering campaign.
The problem is that in order to get elected to run an Irish economy with a 170 billion turnover you have to be more of a party than a movement.
Movements are for the streets not what the general populace want to see in the corridors of power. Not in times of plenty at any rate.
But what is Sinn Féin the party as opposed to Sinn Féin the movement?
The middle class don’t trust it to be middle class, the Republicans don’t trust it to be Republican, the Socialists don’t trust it to be Socialist.
Sinn Féin being against the Lisbon Treaty but for Europe, being against the Euro but for Europe etc. are just cases in point. The movement wants a socialist Republic but what does the party want?
Having a southerner at the front of the vanguard would have been equally unsuccessful.
Sinn Féin needs to shed the movement image and become like any other party, leadership battles, ambitious members looking to climb up the ladder etc.
Otherwise it will always be thought of as a Trojan Horse sitting outside the gates looking to fool us into letting it into the citadel.
George
FDI is a much more important factor in the ROI than the UK. You cannot compare the two. Read the recently released government papers regarding the murder of a du Pont executive in the 1970s. The importance of FDI is even more important today. As you correctly say, stability is important and this is a situation where organized terrorist murder took place in Monaghan and one likes to see that a government has full control over all of its territory and does not have areas where terrorists have a free zone.
I was at a business dinner and this was not the main subject but some at the table knew I follow Irish events and asked about it. It was not a Christmas season dinner just a business dinner, so the context is different than your reference.
New Yorker,
FDI is a much more important factor in the ROI than the UK. You cannot compare the two. Read the recently released government papers regarding the murder of a du Pont executive in the 1970s.
Lets look at the facts as we enter 2008. Ireland has one of the lowest murder rates in the western world and the idea that somebody being beaten to death in a barn in the middle of nowhere will stop Google or whoever else investing here is laughable.
You are comparing this murder to a bombing blitz by the IRA that was followed up by the shooting dead the head of the Du Pont Corporation in Derry and a couple of other business executives a couple of weeks later.
Now if you want to compare a man being beaten to death in a barn with that chain of events in 1977 and somehow extrapolate that FDI will be affected off you go but I for one think it holds no water.
I look forward to seeing your business friends investing in Ballymurphy and Crossmaglen, wonderful parts of the UK, a country where the “government has full control over all its territory and does not have areas where terrorists have a free zone”.
P.S. You’ll be telling me people pulling out of London in their droves in the 60s because of the Krays next.
“Do you feel that Gerry Adams not being a candidate in the last general election in the south played any role in SF’s failure in that poll. ”
I think that it made it easier to paint SF as a Northern party and out of touch. But if the policy had have been right, and the campaign a bit more sure footed and sparkier, that would have been a much hard one to pull off. I think it reinforced rather than was a direct cause.
I think if Adams had have stood somewhere and done badly, then that would have been much more damaging.
I don’t disagree that SF is having a rough time, btw, simply that it is overplayed. SF vote percentage at the election – 7%. Last polls I’ve seen – 7%. And that’s been the same for the past 2 years. In the North there is no immediate threat. So stalled, rather than rowing backwards. Though I’ll be interested to see th effect of pulling off the more hardcore fringe that seems to be occuring since they signed up to policing.
“P.S. You’ll be telling me people pulling out of London in their droves in the 60s because of the Krays next.”
George you are absolutely correct on this and I might add the same could be said for Islamic terrorist today, it is infantile to pretend as Bush Brown and Blair have that Bin Laden and co are threatening our ‘way of life’ and must rational people understand this.
George
You said “Lets look at the facts as we enter 2008. Ireland has one of the lowest murder rates in the western world and the idea that somebody being beaten to death in a barn in the middle of nowhere will stop Google or whoever else investing here is laughable.” The Quinn murder is totally different from a drug dealer getting shot in Dublin. Paul Quinn was murdered by an IRA gang of 20 in a highly organized manner operating in the Irish Republic. The Irish government and others told the world the IRA was out of business. Apparently that is not true. Now that must be dealt with in a convincing way. What else have they said that is unreliable?
You seem to think us Yanks do not follow the news that is important to us in other countries. Don’t you think people at Google read the recent story in the LA Times on this matter? BTW, did you read it?