I must admit to being terribly fascinated but not awfully well read on all of this, so thanks for your considered answer despite my somewhat facetious question.

I would be interested in finding literature that delves into how many Presbyterian families of Scottish descent once aligned themselves with Irish republicans, but evolved into the staunchest defenders of the Crown.

Regardless, does the experience of past treatment by the Crown not illustrate how conditional the loyalty of Northern Ireland’s current unionists actually is? What puzzles me is the unwavering loyalty of people like yourself to a State that consistently shows little understanding of or sympathy towards them.

If unionism’s loyalty is conditional, why do you remain so?

now liberachi, the treehugging nambypambies referred to would never have achieved anyhting had they not tapped into the resentment of the population which was at the rough end of the times. In the north, this meant a significant input from presbyterians in my area at least, as well as Donegal, Londonderry, Antrim and Down.

” Shouldn’t a true Orangeman be on the other side?!”

Actually , not necessarily gonzo. Take Drew Nelson, Cof I Grand secretary, had a family tradition of service in the yeomanry at the time. David Hume, Executive Officer, is a descendant of United men in Larne, and has done an enormous amount of work to revive the memory of James Orr the weaver poet referred to above.

On my mother’s side I’m connected to Henry Joy McCracken, and I have no problem with saying that the aims of the united men were progressive, which is why most of the survuving leaders became supporters of Pitt’s Union in later years, seeing in it the breaking of the Protestant ascendancy. Many Orange leaders bitterly opposed the Union. They were wrong, and if Orangeism hadn’t changed from 1798 it would have deservedly died out.

Orangeism has evolved to meet the challenges of the times- I would never have backed the leadership in the campaign to prevent the disestablishment of Sammy’s Church in the 19th century- and the Orange leadership learned from that mistake never to count us as makeweights in the reformed community

In 1898, when local nationalists attempted to “adopt” united irish heroine Betsy Gray into the campaign for Home Rule the descendants of the unitd men- now all staunch Unionists- would not hear of it.

“It’s lucky youse have fenians to unite you. ”
Amen!!!!
:0)

.. and even though Cromwell was unfortunately not sympathetic to God’s own people (us), he still had the right idea about Christmas-BAN IT

No Sammy there are far worse craetures out there than that. There are Independent Methodists. They are not likely to rejoin you lot; I know I married one.

Quite right. We should be devoting ourselves to the more important questions – like who are the true inheritors of the executive authority of the first dail and which is the real Oglaigh na hEireann.

Merry Christmas yer arse!

Happy Christmas one and all.

Shouldn’t a true Orangeman be on the other side?!

“Most of the United Irish leadership and ideologues were born into Church of Ireland families; they became deists after 1790. This small part of the population – about 15% – included Wolfe Tone, Lord Edward Fitzgerald, Napper Tandy and Robert Emmet. While the United Irish had declared themselves to be non-sectarian from 1791, there were other liberal Protestants in the Irish Parliament who were also anti-sectarian and sought a more democratic franchise, such as Henry Grattan and John Curran.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_the_United_Irishmen

Jaffa / Liberachi / Up the NSPCI!

Ah, now, pace Ratzo Fan, Pusey was fine for his time and place, but I’d be more a Westcottite or Keble-ite than anything else, being a firm supporter of women at the altar and men in bed. Or in modern terms, even a Tutuite.

Methodists are only lapsed Anglicans anyway and they’ll come back into the fold some day.

I’m sure that, come the day of judgement, God will forgive the Prodiban their sins, but he may have to wall you all off into a special section of heaven so you aren’t disturbed by the thought the rest of us are up there too…

I think Darth was talking about the latter James Orr, Jaffa.

Been digging. Do we remember this literalist loony?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Orr_(theologian)

Or this rolled up trousered one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Orr_(poet)

Jaffa

Puseyites tend to be more against the ‘ordination’ of women than Sammy Morse.

thought you might be you tractarian Puseyite
:0). I hope you choke on the caviar and vintage port that your sort live on , having filched the hard earned monies of the starving blackmouths to maintain your privileged ascendancy lifestyle.

Honestly, it’s Episcopalians like you that make me almost tolerate the Methodists….

still, we’ll have the last laugh on the day of judgment, though the secession synod Presbyterians will have a few squeakybum moments trying to explain their well-intetnioned but unwise departure from proper dogma- and as for the burghers, well..let’s pray for them.
Naturally the non-subscribers will be shown the door.

And people think sectarianism is just about Prods and taigs. WE haven;t even started on the real fight. Remember Orr!

I’m all in favour of discriminating against Presbyterians!