At the weekend Sinn Fein announced a renewal of its efforts to expand its base into the Republic. But it’s a much hard uphill struggle that it seems prepared to admit. As Ahern dropped a massive 7% his party’s rate in the last Irish Times poll, Fine Gael and Labour seem to be the beneficiaries. It seems to have lost the ear of the electorate in the south, with few obvious means to get it back into listening mode. More over the Guardian:
Short answer: very little, other than he enjoyed the environs of Hillsborough Castle, enjoyed working with the local politicians, and has Gerry Adams to thank for Bobby his dog. Peter Mandelson’s book The Third Man has captured media headlines in recent weeks as the Times serialised the most juicy bits. But what did he have [...] read our review »
It took me a long time to warm to advertising agencies. The first time I worked with one I was working in sales management on Fairy Washing Up Liquid. I was due to attend a meeting at which I was to be told what consumers really thought of the brand. I remember my reluctance to [...] read our review »
Which reminds me…. Platform for Change’s driving force Robin Wilson has produced a corrective to the notion that the lessons of the NI conflict are easily exportable. Like myself, Robin is associated with the Constitution Unit. He introduced his new book in a CU blog which I here reproduce. The water crisis in Northern Ireland [...] read our review »
With the Ra more or less decommissioned, the British army demilitarised and the assembly up and going, SF have little opportunity to hit the headlines anymore, apart from the odd bit if fuel smuggling, murder etc etc.
Down south they have little influence and I’m sure the majority of our neighbours arn’t too concerned in what goes on up here as long as we don’t effect them.
I don’t know why the Republic would want Sinn Fein. I’m probably more in the Republic than Gerry or Martin or any of the other leaders, and thats simply for my petrol. They are basically a Northern Ireland party and I think the vast majoirty of Irish people see it this way too, so why vote for them?
Outside of Fianna Fail, a vote for Fine Gael of Labour would be much more productive for Irish voters than a vote for Northen Ireland centred Sinn Fein.
“Nonetheless, the stuff on the economy sounds right”
Is it? This and the other stuff points read like SF trying to become ‘just another’ party in the republic.
Is there any space in the centre for them?
What is distinctive among the centre clutter to make SF attractive?
Does this direction shift them away from their existing base who are largely the urban and rural disaffected? Could the base shift to independents or more socialist candidates?
This base clearly has its limitations however is it not a clearer niche and safer bet? Could SF not take it chances with the vagaries of PR and the cookie may crumble better for them and put them in the kingmaker role they used to aspire too.
As far as I could see from the results there would also seem to independent candidate and socialist voters, particularly in target areas who didn’t warm to SF. Is there not more scope for growth in votes and seats by targeting this section rather than in the centre?
Mick says:
“Indeed, Sinn Féin’s performance was only poor against its own claim that it would win 10 Dáil seats.”
I’d have thought losing a seat was a poor performace Mick by any objective standard, and more especially when they had received so much media coverage and succeeded in getting the deal done in the north. The rest of what you say, particularly about the absence of any substantial intellectual capital, is spot on.
Fair Deal,
The independent and socialist vote is alas much smaller than people like to think. The Green party has a good grip on much of it, and I doubt that will change, despite the entry into government. One green policy shortly before the next election, and they will be sitting farily pretty.
Nor should we forget where the Provo TDs are – Kerry, Cavan, Louth, and only one in Dublin. In other words, traditional green nationalist areas (I wonder how much of the Louth vote comes from northerners and their descednants in Dundalk). It is the green tories who vote for Ferris et al who they need to capture from FF to take more seats, and who Adams thoroughly alienated with his TV performance, that PSF is pinning its hopes on. But FF is cute enough to mostly see that off I suspect.
Fair Deal
It’s not a case of Sinn Féin moving to the centre, more a case of adding meat to the bones in terms of our objectives and how we go about achieving them.
It’s about creating a streamlined and professional party structure, one with costed and realistic policies for a change.
The next Ard Fheis will be a central tenant in that process.
Dismiss Sinn Féin at your peril; we have come back from a lot worse than this.
“This seems long on aspiration, but noticeably short on the means of achieving that aspiration.” – Mick Fealty
Fortune Cookie politics. Crack another cookie one open on the podium and read it to the assembled plebeians while chewing on the cookie: “And finally, comrades, or mission is to *swallows* galvanise support from all sections of society for our core objectives in implementing those objectives for the greater good of all. Thanks you!”
These people are unprincipled opportunists who believe in nothing other than their own self-advancement. There is no detail because there is no conviction or intention behind any of it – it’s just hollow words. Martin McGuinness and his ilk in PSF will talk about the oppressed classes and their ‘struggle’ with the capitalist class, telling their supporters that they were engaging in a violent ‘revolution’ to establish a socialist republic, etc, yet will go to America to import the ruling capitalist class into Northern Ireland that (they claim) they spent the last 40 years trying to overthrow! There are few manifestations of the capitalist class more vulgar than Donald Trump, yet Martin McGuinness has no problem meeting him in an effort to bring him to Northern Ireland simply because, contrary to his party’s socialist principles, he has no objections to the capitalist ruling class. They sell socialism to the plebs because the plebs buy it, not because they believe in it. Which, of course, is why PSF/PIRA has a very lucrative capitalist empire of their own: PIRA and its highly diversified organised crime business.
Generally candidates of smaller parties have to punch above their weight because they don’t have the machine and the associated publicity behind it. SF can reposition itself until the cows come and find all the niches in Nicheland but it doesn’t change the simple fact that their candidates in the Republic are generally very weak and they don’t appear to be attracting talented new blood or if they are, they’re not on the radar.
I would contend that two further centrist areas came into play:
1. Being willing to court FF as a coalition partner didn’t play well with a large core SF vote that is extremely disaffected with the status quo and FF in particular. Why vote for a party that could potentially support that you despise the most? A big chunk of the SF core demographic is that left behind by Irish society and shifting towards the party and policies that left them behind was a risk that didn’t pay off.
2. On a similar note while many think reestablishing the Stormont administration in partnership with the DUP should have been a positiv,e when much of your core is anti-establishment presenting yourself as a willing and able partner of the far-right is going to go down like a lead balloon.
Two factors where a drift from anti-establishment revolutionary politics didn’t bring the core vote along. And as the fight back plan seems to be a further drift into the centre I see the core vote being left further behind and becoming further disenchanted. It then becomes a matter of can they find a replacement vote for those being cast aside.
no indication of any substantial intellectual capital
Probably an understatement. As I noted previously, successful guerrilla war leaders do not necessarily make good politicians. Ask Robert Mugabe.
The old warhorses need to retire and let the young’uns try their hand.
Sorry, I just wanted to let you all know that I’ve won the naming the Super Orangeman competition! I animated him to celebrate and it can be seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxRPfgLvV0k
Same applies to the leaders of the UUP and the DUP.
No intellectual capacity and well past their “sell by date”.
Good to see you back to fight your corner fair_deal.
Great little video and theme, Quentin.
Wanna get rid of more scumbags..
Quentin
Your video made me smile, I dont think you’ll ever get a job as a PRO for the Orange Order though
Funny video. I think the point about bigotry is lost though on some of the people who’ve left comments below it on YouTube. I sometimes get the impression that there are people from ‘both sides’ who just sit on that site all day leaving ridiculous comments- a bit like Slugger O’Toole for the feebleminded, as it were.
Garibaldy
“The independent and socialist vote is alas much smaller than people like to think.”
I accept it is small but a few percentage points and IIRC the geographic location of those percentage points would secure or put them in contention for a seat in a number of constituencies (primarily the greater dublin area if memory serves).
Chris
“It’s not a case of Sinn Féin moving to the centre, more a case of adding meat to the bones in terms of our objectives and how we go about achieving them. It’s about creating a streamlined and professional party structure, one with costed and realistic policies for a change.”
An early new labour tone to that comment
“Dismiss Sinn Féin at your peril”
I wasn’t aware I had dismissed them.
“Dismiss Sinn Féin at your perilâ€
Why you goin to beat us all to death if we don;t vote for you.
“An early new labour tone to that comment
”
LOL, A low dig even by your standards FD
“I wasn’t aware I had dismissed them.”
I never said you did
“Why you goin to beat us all to death if we don;t vote for you.”
I see the trolls are still about
CG
“I never said you did”
Fair enough, apologies, it was just the comment was addressed to myself so thought it was all in direct response.
FD,
I understand what you’re saying, but I think to expect them to chase that market – so to speak – is to misunderstand the nature of the beast. While undobtedly some people vote PSF for the reasons you suggest, the reality is that PSF has never really been able to capture that vote, and its success comes from other factors. One is a perception of being different and not corrupt, but they appeal most to more traditional nationalist elements within FF’s support base rather than the harder left constituency. And so it is no surprise to see them chase that traditional element on the one hand, while chasing the lower middle classes in the south who have been the driving force behind their massive expansion in the north since 1994. It’s not therefore a turn in a different direction but in fact an extension of the logic of everything they have done so far.
´´unprincipled opportunists who believe in nothing other than their own self-advancement´´
Wouldn´t this be an accurate definition of 99.9% of ALL politicians?
“It’s about creating a streamlined and professional party structure”
Sure thing Chris, keep on going the way we are going and it will be streamlined alright,no doubt about that!!
I agree with Mark and Garibaldy on this, SF is going to find it hard to row back from the mistakes Adams and the rest made when they put all their eggs in the establishment basket, i e Stormont-DUP-New Labor government stormont coalition. I mean McG begging Trump and big business to come over and exploit Irish workers is really going to go down well with the left vote.
The same with the strategy at the last election in the south, which amounted to Bertie as boss or die. I would love to know whether Bertie led Adams on, or the latter took being in government with FF for granted.
Still Chris has had a hard week on slugger defending his party and it is true, SF have come back from worse and with young determined, if a little blinkered (sorry chris;) members like him,
who knows.
“The peace process (a significant part of which Sinn Féin either directly controlled or had significant influence on) was the key driver to the party’s electoral victory in Northern Ireland. In the Republic, the party has none of these insider advantages.”
I’d put SF’s success in NI down to paramilitary appeasement by the Governments, piss poor investigative journalism and weak opposition from the rest of the ‘pan-nationalist’ family.
Mick, it wasn’t supposed to be seen as begging, it was meant to protray Northern Ireland PLC, was open for business. But it does look like Trump was only playing us off against the scots. It looks like Trump will opt for Scotland, as for the land in north down where this golf course was to be built no one seems to know who owns it.
On the other point about dismissing sinn fein – I think they’ll have to work hard to keep the vote even in their own back yard. I do agree with the post on slugger yesterday linking el blogador. Pol’s article that WB is Eastern Europe with out the glastnost is absolutely spot on.
Theres a lot of work ahead of them if they want to keep their dominance in the north, and increase their voter base in the south.
Adams should explain why he did not stand in the last election.
He always polled well in the popularity stakes even getting close to Bertie at times. If he was a trump card why was it not used even before he failed in the TV interview.
If Sf want success in the south they must have a new leadership team as the present one looks tired and bereft of original and popular policies. They have been preaching the same old message and people are fed up.
i really think the video on this link sums up the current political situation http://www.langerland.com/content/view/82/59/
I think people are missing the point that a party does not have to gain power to be effective or useful in the democratic process. The left is responsible for us all not being in the nightmare of Dubliner’s wont, where capitalists still flog workers for poor production and the death penalty is de rigeur. Those of us who don’t suck an effigy of Dev’s cock every morning know that socialism has to evolve. The left is the conscience of a nation and provides a balance. There is nothing wrong with a socialist looking for investment. His constituents have to eat to live just like anybody elses, all the pseudointellectual ‘black& white’ philosophy doesn’t change that. As a socialist, however, he has a duty to look after how the people are employed when the company gets here.
I don’t believe SF to be a true socialist party. They have truly embraced this right wing government of the DUP. Listening to them talk about cuts – anyone would think they were conservative with a small ‘c’.
Embracing a right wing budget in the north, while blowing the socialist trumpet in the south makes it look like a party at odds with its self.
Chris Gaskin
In Point 6 [edited by moderator - play the ball]
The Provos have had their day and after the bearded monster spewed the drivel from his mouth on primetime they stand no chance of ever having any credibility in the 26 Counties.
[edited by moderator - play the ball]
Chris
In the interests of PLAYING THE BALL
Can I ask will your little PROVO fantasy of Streamlining your Party does that mean that your leaders will stop party members from getting involved in Criminal activities?
Beating kids, threatening people, and concealing murderers.
Now if they do not at least stop some of the above can you honestly expect anyone in The 26 counties to every vote for your thugish mates/
Come on Chris get with the real world?
Chris Gaskin
Can you explain why members of PSF all over the 32 counties of Ireland are deserting the party?
No one believes the bullshit anymore!
The party used to have credibility but since you lot have sold out your country and accepted a brit administered police force how can any self respecting republican believe the party line.
The War is over because you lot ran away!
Not Trolling Chris Mo Chara!
[Play the ball or get a red card, your choice - edited moderator]
Moderator
Chris won’t tackle – just trying to get the man to comment and give us his favourite parties line!
“I think people are missing the point that a party does not have to gain power to be effective or useful in the democratic process. The left is responsible for us all not being in the nightmare of Dubliner’s wont, where capitalists still flog workers for poor production and the death penalty is de rigeur. Those of us who don’t suck an effigy of Dev’s cock every morning know that socialism has to evolve. The left is the conscience of a nation and provides a balance.”
Mayoman
I agree whole heartedly with this part of your post, if the left is unable to gain mass support, this is the road we should go down. As you say in a democracy a party does not have to gain power to play a vitally important role, it would be great if we could be the government, if not better to be in opposition as the conscience of the nation that to sell our selves and those we represent for a ride in a government limo.
Look at the greens at the moment, they could be far more useful to the nation if the were snapping at Bertie ankles rather that being nodding dogs.
sinn fein missed their golden opportunity when they self-destructed at the last election down south. their socialist credentials are questionable given the precipitous haste with which they dumped their working class support base in favour of middle class dearies – a strategy which contributed to their self-destruction.
Rory, my deluded dissident friend
It seems from the fact that your posts are heavily edited that you have been a rather naughty boy in my absence.
“The Provos have had their day”
I agree, that is why the army stood down and why we have entered a new political dispensation.
“after the bearded monster spewed the drivel from his mouth on primetime they stand no chance of ever having any credibility in the 26 Counties”
What’s next week’s lotto numbers? I ask because that statement is about as insightful and as credible as your answer to my first question would be.
“Can I ask will your little PROVO fantasy”
I don’t have any “PROVO” fantasies, thanks be to Jesus.
“Streamlining your Party”
It’s not my party; I am a member of “SINN” féin
“does that mean that your leaders will stop party members from getting involved in Criminal activities?”
Like who? What party members would that be then?
“Beating kids, threatening people, and concealing murderers”
Is this a random flight of fancy on your behalf or are you accusing Sinn Féin of being involved in these criminal activities?
“Now if they do not at least stop some of the above can you honestly expect anyone in The 26 counties to every vote for your thugish mates”
It is the job of the police to “police” society and to ensure law and order is upheld, not Sinn Féin.
Tell me, does Fianna Fail stop any of the above criminal activities that you mentioned?
“Come on Chris get with the real world?”
It’s not me that you should be saying that to, it’s the mirror that you should be talking to.
“Can you explain why members of PSF all over the 32 counties of Ireland are deserting the party?”
I am unaware of such widespread desertion
“No one believes the bullshit anymore!”
Quite clearly you will believe anything you are told, so long as it’s anti-Sinn Féin.
“The party used to have credibility but since you lot have sold out your country”
How did we do that? Do you reject the views of the Irish people?
“The War is over because you lot ran away!”
LOL, keep telling yourself that, I’m sure it dulls the other voices in your head.
“Not Trolling Chris Mo Chara!”
Oh you are but I don’t mind amusing your trolling for a while, I always like to do my bit for charity.
“Chris won’t tackle”
Won’t tackle what exactly??
I won’t claim to keep my finger on the political pulse in NI as much as the average slugger poster, but surely its obvious that what has motivated SF in the recent past is power, or rather the prospect of power – thus the cessation of their self-styled “war”, rather a shabby, unwinnable and futile sectarian killing campaign.
And if power is what they want, they presumably realise, like most modern political parties in the west, that tacking noticeably to the left is the quickest way to make themselves unelectable. It’s not like they’re really betraying anything – until they stopped killing people to “unify Ireland”, their incoherent far-left “economics” were just an expedient bolt-on to add a veneer of revoutionary gloss to an otherwise tawdry project. Continuing to pay lip-service to this to attract some hoped-for latent appetite for socialism in a country whose remarkable growth and prosperity is in large part due to its extremely open economy, foreign investment, a low tax base and light-touch regulation is clearly perverse.
Mick – I’m not Trump’s biggest fan, but I’m unclear as to how you can be sure he would “exploit” Irish workers if he was to develop a golf course here. The jobs the project would create in construction and operation are no more likely to be exploitative than any similar jobs available, and if workers don’t want to be thus “exploited” they won’t be forced to be.
Laf,
For many Republicans, Socialism is inseparable from the desire for a United Ireland. In the words of James Connolly;
“An Irish Republic, the only purely political change in Ireland worth crossing the street for, will never be realized except by a revolutionary party that proceeds upon the premise that the capitalist and the landlord classes in town and country in Ireland are particeps criminis with the British government, in the enslavement and subjection of the nation. Such a revolutionary party must be Socialist, and from Socialism alone can the salvation of Ireland comeâ€
Without this, working towards a unified Nation or power in the two statelets that is just a mirror image of the Imperialist state certainly isn’t jus bellum or struggle.
But I’m just a starry-eyed dreamer, what would I know……..
Watching the Chris/Rory dispute is to understand why “revolutionary” political parties usually fail and when they succeed they inevitably embark on terror and purges against their ideological enemies, enemies who were as often as not on the same side during the “struggle”.
Can anyone post the “Judean Popular Front” scene from Monty Python’s Life of Brian?
Ideological splits? Get over it boys, all that stuff is so last century.
Ah, the very sad anti-left crusader has arrived above to put the icing on the cake. No more Oxygen for you now.
Critics of Sinn Fein should make up their mind about what they want them to represent. If they are ‘revolutionary’ left-wingers – they aren’t in any serious way – they get attacked on this front, and if they go over to the US and court business they have ‘sold out’ socialism. As it is Sinn Fein have always had pretty dubious left wing credentials – formerly persecuting many of the old Officials for such positions – but their realisation that privitisation in the public services is always a pure disaster can only be welcomed. There are other left-leaning parties and individuals who wisely share this belief in the Executive, so there is plenty of ‘choice’, to use an inane privitisation term. But in the context of the South, a fine champion of disastrous Thatcherite politics (currently ruining vital services), high on vacuous cocaine, Sinn Fein seem angelic. The indolent, smug way people dismiss the left in the south – a mindset shared by the lesser unionists in the north – is the only instance in which even a hint of sympathy is raised for Sinn Fein.
but their realisation that privitisation in the public services is always a pure disaster can only be welcomed.
Sorry, Joey, their ministers just a few months ago endorsed the privatisation of public sector jobs and assets. Another is involved in public sector asset stripping to fund meeting EU directives.
Still an NHS Mark – much to the chagrin of so many gnomic fellows – though I’m sure they’ve compromised to the private sector in other ways, unfortunately. Like I said – their left-wing credentials are well open to debate. It’s only when the right in the south (great) and the north (quite small) criticize them that SF seem barely reasonable.
Here it is on youtube, Harry, the Chris/Rory Front – and Garibaldy’s secret passion
“For many Republicans, Socialism is inseparable from the desire for a United Ireland.” – Mark McGregor
Selling both together cancels out any prospect of success for the latter. The reality is that you have to sell a united Ireland to the unionists and to the southern Irish under the GFA. It’s one hell of a job to sell a united Ireland to unionists without trying to convert them and the southern Irish to socialism at the same time. And since you folks haven’t even made a start at selling unity to them yet, I don’t hold out much hope for your salesmanship on the join package.
“I think people are missing the point that a party does not have to gain power to be effective or useful in the democratic process.” – Mayoman
I think you’re missing the point that Irish voters are more sophisticated that simply voting for folks who want power for the sake of it, in the deluded believe that a bunch of miserable failures who don’t put forward any polices because none of them will stand up to public scrutiny are somehow going to pull a manifesto of Solomon-like wisdom out of the back passage after they are elected. Gerry Adams knew sweet feck all about economic policy and that was abundantly clear to Irish voters during the last election. Just as it would be criminally irresponsible to appoint a heart surgeon who knew nothing about the human anatomy but was full of intention, promises, and ambition, so too would it be criminally irresponsible to appoint an ignoramus to a position where his ignorance could do nothing but harm to others.
“Those of us who don’t suck an effigy of Dev’s cock every morning know that socialism has to evolve.” – Mayoman
I’ll be chuckling at that for the rest of the day. But it good that you understand that socialism has failed – even if you can’t quite bring yourself to a state of full acceptance yet.
“The left is the conscience of a nation and provides a balance.” – Mayoman
There is no such thing as a collective conscience. Socialists destroy economies, creating the unemployment that harms the citizens it claims to serve. Unless you encourage the creation wealth with a missionary zeal via an enterprise economy where businesspeople are lauded as the saviours of the nation that they actually are, you will not any money help those who are dependent on the sate for genuine reasons. Why do you think FF were able to commit to raising the old age pension by 50% during this term? It isn’t because some socialist “conscience of a nation” suggested it: it is because Irish capitalists made it possible. Socialists only know how to spend money others have earned, but they have absolutely no idea of how that wealth is to be created. They do, of course, have a vague idea that they can create a job for themselves by posturing as some kind of suited Mother Theresa.
“There is nothing wrong with a socialist looking for investment.” – Mayoman
That’s not what James Connolly would have said about the likes of Donald Trump, is it?
Nevin,
Don’t you oppress me!
One other point, Mayoman: the function of a political party is to attain political power within a government. It is not to be confused with any other role such as a clergyman, a charity, a union, a lobby group, etc. If you want to pontificate, then join a church. They, at least, will train you properly on the “conscience” thing. Society has plenty of groups and associations raising all sorts of issues with TDs and government with the purpose of influencing policy. Political parties must be proactive legislators, not a lobby group within a parliament.
The reality is that SF have alienated their hardcore republican supporters in the 26 counties and have failed to gain the soft republican/fianna fail types due to their outdated economic policies. They stand for nothing now unfortunately.
Dubliner, You pick ONE instance where the grubby-fingered, brown-envelope-loving FF made a difference yet ignore the fact that there is a major problem with poverty in Ireland and MASSIVE inequality. The finances of Ireland are so f***ked, Mary Harney admitted that it wasn’t feasible to measure health spending in Ireland by GDP (the normal measure) because so much of Ireland’s GDP belonged to someone else! You are making the schoolboy error of mistaking totalitarianism for socialism, and as many right-wing junta, capiltalist-loving dictators have failed for the similar reasons. You point out that Connolly’s dream of socialism failed, without admitting that so too, did the barbaric capitalists, who were forced to stop dealing with people as expendible chattel. Connolly won. Workers have rights. You might hate that they do, but that is Connolly et als greatest triumph.
Briniging it up to date. Why not consider this passage from Combat Poverty Ireland’s Annual Report?
“Ireland has made great strides in terms of economic growth and in improving income supports for people dependent on social welfare but compared with other countries we have less supportive public services, especially for people on low incomes. We are in danger of reinforcing a two tier society of those who can afford to pay for quicker access or supplementary services and those who depend solely on an under-resourced and poorly delivered public service.â€
The left is needed in this country, it HAS to exist, because the alternative ia your view, a disgusting, money-led, money-measured society that ignores a huge proprtion of its people for financial expediency and the greed of the few. Labour can;t provide this, I hope that post-conflict Sinn Fein, in time, can reach the critical mass to make the important difference.