“He’s covering up for them.. he knows them..”
As well as the report on the aftermath of the killing of Paul Quinn on BBC’s Newsnight last night, journalists at RTÉ are also paying attention – despite the apparent blindness elsewhere. As the Prime Time webpage notes – “major technical difficulties” prevented the full programme going to air, but the clips which should have gone to air are now available online – although the second clip still seems to be truncated. Intro report by Claire Murphy here.. and an interview with Paul Quinn’s parents here [RealPlayer files] Updated below the foldUpdate A report from the Irish Times on the recent meeting in Cullyhanna [subs req]
The chairman of the group, Jim McAllister, who was a local Sinn Féin leader before becoming disaffected from the leadership, said he “felt ashamed” for not speaking up against such incidents. There were people who felt similarly, he knew. “If people had spoken up much sooner than now maybe we could have saved the life of Paul Quinn. But we are speaking up now, and that is very important,” he added.
There were no Sinn Féin representatives in the hall. Local SDLP Assembly member Dominic Bradley, pledging his support, repeated his comment that the people who killed Paul Quinn were “no ad hoc” group.
He said Sinn Féin’s attempt to portray the murder as part of a criminal feud was an attempt to blacken Paul Quinn. “But I think that lie has been exposed for what it was.”
Another speaker said campaigners were portrayed as “somehow enemies of the peace process. I want to make this very clear right now that nobody in the Quinn family and support group has the slightest interest in bringing down Stormont, or anything else, except murder. We are not enemies of anyone or anything, except those who murdered Paul, and those who want to provide cover for his killers.”
Yesterday the Quinn support group issued a statement, which it said would permit Sinn Féin “to retreat from its increasingly ridiculous and isolated position on the Paul Quinn murder without further loss of face for the sake of the peace process. We say to the governments and to the DUP, let Sinn Féin continue in government, but let them tell the truth. Let us simply all agree that the killing was not sanctioned at any organisational level which should have political consequences at Stormont. Let us also agree that we have a murder machine in our community and it must be dismantled for ever.”
Despite the technical difficulties, it is well worth viewing. In the interview Mrs. Quinn explicitly states that Conor Murphy is covering up. Reporters should be at his door asking about Mrs. Quinn’s statement. He also has several other difficult questions to answer over this travesty.
The Garda say people will not speak with them. It certainly seems Mr and Mrs Quinn would speak with them. The Garda statement is not credible. One would wonder how complicit they are in this disgraceful situation. Again, there is something the media should be on top of, but are they?
The UUP pulled out of the executive on previous occasions when similar things happened – why not this time?
Maybe Trimble had more guts than Empey.
Lift the carpet – the sweepers are comming!!
As I said before, SF are usually quite good running off a few flyers – why are they not publically seeking justice for one of their constituents? I wonder…
IRA members are still clearly immune to the legal system both north and south – in fact even more so, because the govenments are reluctant to rock the apple cart.
Another public enquiry?
Another inquiry, please no. It’s up to the police to find out the bigger picture and pull it together.
You need only look at the Saville inquiry into Bloody Sunday, Martin McGuinness should have sent along a manequin as it probably would have been more co-operative and frank.
Ridiculous.
The RUC did commit lapses of duty and disregard to right to life but in the rules of engagement in covert operations those that are involved often adopt the traits of those they are bedding down with, the RUC’s covert Special Branch and IRA were no different at times because of these rules.
Is it really a one sided story as we are often forced to believe.
Saying the Gardaà are complicit is ridiculous. Also suggesting Conor Murphy is covering up for murders is really stretching reality.
Any inquiry would be another waste of money. Did i hear calls for inquiries into last month’s funding and brutal assualts in Carrickfergus? Or the last killings in loyalist areas? No.
People need to keep the overall picture in mind and not let conjecture bring now the Assembly, again.
Conor Murphy is covering up for the murder by telling everyone with information to go to the PSNI and GardaÃ.
Is Jim McAllister? Oh I forgot – he is anti PSNI and anti ceasefire.
“Saying the Gardaà are complicit is ridiculous.”
Welcome to Northern Ireland, where if you can possibly scapegoat in the media and get away with it then do it.
It’s likely that the ‘not ruffling paramilitary feathers without political clearance’ directive still operates; the respective police services can only do what London and Dublin permit them to do.
It is very strange to see ‘anti-Sinn Féin’ charachters holding up posters with the PSNI phone number on it.
The Quinns need friends, no doubt, but they need to be careful they don’t be used.
I think Conor Murphy’s call for information to be passed to the police is genuine.
Republicans have been briefed that this was a murder carried out by criminals, some of whom may have had links to the army in the past.
It is a matter for the PSNI ad the Garda SÃochána. It is their job to build a case againist the people involved.
It is Conor Murphy job to get some-one to fix pot-holes etc.
I wonder if a large number of media persons are missing The Troubles. Peace must have brought quite a large fall in both their incomes and their profile. Oh for the days when every media person in N. Ireland had a lucrative nightly slot on Newsnight or News at Ten reporting on the latest crisis at Stormont or the latest outbreak of violence. Peace and stability are so so boring from a media point of view.
Depends on how you like your excitement. This week has been a very interesting and entertaining week up in Stormont. Not every one likes Die Hard many people like The West Wing.
Not every one likes Die Hard, many people like The West Wing.
Nice one Pounder!
C’mon now Pounder, Die Hard’s a little bit more realistic than the West Wing !
Here’s the raw contradiction that both Prime Time and Newsnight have highlighted.
One, the family says they know some of the people involved in the killing, and those, whichever number they are, are either in or connected to the IRA.
Two, the local MP (ie, the most senior public representative for the area that Paul Quinn lived in, and not just a party functionary) says he has talked to the IRA and they say it is nothing to do with them.
Now if you believe it all stops with the word of the IRA, that’s an end to it. But this is both an illegal organisation, and as immune to public scrutiny as MI5.
Of course the rights or wrongs of the case itself should, as people have rightly argued here, be subject to the full scrutiny of the law.
But picture, for a moment, a unionist MP going to the Mount Vernon UVF and coming back with the answer that there was never any collusion between them and Special Branch. It hasn’t happened of course.
But then what is the real difference between that hypothetical case, and the real situation in Armagh/Monaghan?
‘But then what is the real difference between that hypothetical case, and the real situation in Armagh/Monaghan?’
its quite easy mick, that hypothetical case you speak of concerns loyalists, who although with massive evidence to the contrary are never viewed by the british media as despicable and evil as those upstart republicans.
“loyalists..never viewed by the british media as despicable and evil as those upstart republicans…”
Which papers do you read ? Which TV stations do you read ? I’d suggest your guiltly of making ridiculously exaggerated claims, no ?
If you can produce one comment from the mainstream British media hinting at any kind of acceptance for loyalist paramilitaries i’ll be delighted to rescind and accept your not viewing the world via “propaganda-vision”
good grief good grief, where did i write the word accept or acceptance, if you show me where i’ll rescind and accept your not putting words into others mouths.
Conor Murphy could have said: ‘I don’t believe any republicans were involved, but in any case everyone should help the police’. He didn’t, he came out with absolute, cast-iron guarantees that no Provos were involved, and that before the investigation even began. he politicised the case from day one, and to give his claim some credibility he tried to build the case that Paul Quinn was a criminal. That was sheer nastiness, and I can’t really understand why. The DUP is not stupid, they are not going to stay in government just because Conor peddles a fairy story. They know as everyone in Cullyhanna knows that there was no politically significant sanction. There is no threat to ministerial positions, no more reason for Conor to lie. the attack on Jim McAllister is irrelevant, this is the Quinn family’s campaign at every level and every turn. You can’t support the family and attack the campaign, they are one. New Yorker, you are misinformed. An Garda Siochana are getting a constant flow of information and their liaison people are in Cullyhanna every day, indeed I met a team as far in as Mullaghbawn.
The silence from Papa Doc and his dwarves is also deafening. Not even a chuckle.
Red Diesel
You beat me to it. Absolutely spot on. Encouraging people to go to the PSNI but remember we have told you that no republicans were involved. Absolutely despicable. Murphy claims to know who is behind the intimidation of one of the suspects but has no idea who the dozen or so psychos who carried out the murder. Other than he knows who it was not!
Maybe we’re being too hard on Adams and Murphy. Remember that when they gave their news conference in the immediate aftermath, they were still coming to terms with the shock realisation that fuel smuggling had been going on under their noses in South Armagh
Imagined interview:
Nolan: “Are you a supporter of Thomas ‘Slab’ Murphy?”
Murphy: “I know of him, yes”
Technical difficulties?
No reporters at Conor Murphy’s door?
I resubmit my point on the lack of independent and effective media. As I see it, they are willingly complicit in the ‘official version of events’, and will only follow the demands for the story to be told in full if/when they become deafening.
The impact on electoral support for SF/DUP will therefore be minimalised, and the British, and to a lesser extent, Irish governments will continue to rule via their puppets.
Further, if the PSNI do not question Conor Murphy, as suggested by Mick Fealty I believe, and certainly required, is this an instance of collusion? And if they do not, is there someone who could compel them to do so?
Red Diesel: Thank you for your post. I agree with all you have said.
It is my understanding that Conor Murphy has received solid assurances from the IRA that it wasn’t us, gov. Let me get this right. A minister who has taken a pledge of office has been in direct contact with members/leaders of a criminal conspiracy who may – indeed should – be prime suspects in a murder investigation. The minister accepts the word of criminal conspirators. Funny no one, not even the DUP, has questioned him on this. His line goes something like this: ‘I don’t know who did it, absolutely no idea, but I know who didn’t and I am absolutely certain about that’. Presumably Conor’s brand of republican runs to a few hundred people in South Armagh and he and his paramilitary associates were able to account for every one of them before Paul’s body even went in to post-mortem. No crowbars missing, all boiler suits accounted for, quartermaster says all nail-studded cudgels standing neatly on numbered shelves and nothing logged out for months. i wonder did Conor get solid assurances from the same person who assured Gerry Adams that the Provos had not shot Frank Kerr through the neck back in 1994. It was noted at the public meeting the other night that Conor Murphy is the first MP known to have responded to a murder in his constituency by blaming the victim for his own death.
I’m just amazed that nobody has been invited to have a cuppa at their local police station where they might be able to assist the police with their inquiries.
There were two crimes here; a sickening murder south of the border and a previous conspiracy north of the border.
I’m getting an awful feeling that, as in times past, there is political interference in the investigations.
Please say that it ain’t so.
Red Diesel
It is over six weeks since the murder. The Garda and PSNI should have held suspects or made arrests by now. Until they explain why that is by saying the politicians have tied our hands or some other credible reason, the onus and pressure is rightly on them. Meanwhile there is a mad pack of murderers on the loose waiting for another kill.
It reminds me of how the British government covered-up murders by members of nationalists by its security and armed forces in Northern Ireland because acknowledging them would contradict its official line that “they wouldn’t do such a thing, you know.” Nationalists rightly argued that covering up the murders had the effect of creating an operational climate where further murders would occur on the grounds that the culprit would form a reasonable belief that he (or in the case of Margaret Walshaw of the British Army’s FRU, she) would be protected by the state rather than prosecuted by it. Justice was deemed to be a secondary consideration to defending the moral authority of the state by the expedient of keeping its transgressions from the public domain, from letting the guilty go free to keeping the innocent in gaol. Appalling vistas, and all that.
In the instances where the State’s transgressions would not be covered up, the state would blame ‘rogue elements’ in an attempt to distances itself from the actions of its agents and insist that the murders were not ‘sanctioned.’ Many nationalists and human rights groups also counterclaimed that murders were sanctioned as policy at very high level, dismissing the attempts to put distance between the state and its official murderers as ‘plausible deniability.’
Now, in Orwellian twist, we have nationalists engaging in the very tactics that they condemned the state for: in the instances where PSF/PIRA’s transgressions cannot be successfully covered up, the nationalists are, like the British Government, blaming rogue elements within PIRA and claiming that murders were not sanctioned. They would have us believe that no policy of control of the public by tactical murders, intimidation, and physical assault is in place.
To borrow Mick Fealty’s favourite mantra: one side is as bad as the other. It’s like a game of ‘Spot the difference’ without the difference.
Typo correction: “…covered-up murders of nationalists by members of its security and armed forces…”
Methinks that a lot of people on this thread couldn’t care less about Paul Quinn but they imagine that a small chink has opened in the Provos armour and like hyenas they are circling for the kill.But I don’t think that their agenda finishes with Sinn Féin but will go on until South Armagh is once more made amenable to the rule of ‘law’.
Is that equivalent to the “tribal areas” between Pakistan and Afghanistan, Pancho?
Pancho’s Horse
The first priority is to bring the murderers of Paul Quinn to justice. The next priority is to restore justice in South Armagh and that means observance of the law in the area. And, I don’t mean Provo law. That is the ‘law’ that is being repudiated. At long last.
Do you have a problem with that?
Pancho’s horse
I think the individual in all of this who clearly demonstrates that he doesn’t care about Paul Quinn is his MP.
As to “hyenas circling for the kill”, really poor terminology given the circumstances of the murder in question
I disagree with you,New Yorker. The first priority is to try to ensure that it doesn’t happen again. If you impose alien laws and lawkeepers you’re just stoking up more trouble for the future. Has 30 years taught you nothing? And that’s not a bad analogy, JoeCanuck – no mans land. And beancounter, what do you want Conor Murphy to do exactly? Spell it out. If it is the IRA involved that’s very bad and if it isn’t then they will sort it out.
connor murphy has to say what he is saying as if he tells the truth he knows what wil happen to him.thers a list of people in south armagh who fell foul of the chucks.including top members of the chucks.so connor toes the line,he is only there to carry back what the belfast heads r up to in shame fein
Pancho’s Horse,
I have just read this, I failed to notice it the first time “If you impose alien laws…..”
The “alien law” most people here are concerned about is that one about murdering people. It may be alien to the South Armagh IRA, the FARC, Shinning Path and a few other groups but it seems pretty widely accepted otherwise.
No, Turgon. The alien law I refer to is that of the colonial power no matter how ‘widely acceptable’ it is.The mass murder of Iraqis every day and the daily slaughter of the unborn doesn’t seem to annoy you?
what u say is part true p but what happens in iraq r anywhere else has nothing to do wit mother ireland .we must worry about whats happening on our door steps.in the good auld days there wouldent even be a mutter about young quinn he would have been branded a tout and everybody would have danced on his grave.but the game has changed now and its acceptiable to be a tout even shame fein are advising people to be touts.and to think poor dennis donaldson got the shotgun for doin exactly wat the shinners want people to do now.how times have changed.
Dear Pancho’s Horse,
Some of your statements sound more likely to have come out of panchos arse than his horse.People are not stupid you know.
againstthehead
IRA members are still clearly immune to the legal system both north and south
Thomas ‘slab’ murphy arrested by the gardai recently. the gardai not taking on provisionals. this arrest paints a different story, sorry.
http://www.quinnsupport.com/
Worth a read
To the Dubliner: You were all over Slugger O’Toole and Chris Gaskin’s Balrog in December ’06 and Jauary ’07 heaping warnings and even vitriol at members of SF arguing in favour of backing the motion to support policing. Slugger’s archives are difficult for me to surf in and out of, but just clicking a moment ago on the December 2006 archive at Balrog, clicking on the first thread on policing, and clicking on Comments (it says there are zero comments, click anyway, they are all there), this is a typical entry from you:
from The Dubliner on Balrog, December 2006:
Keep in mind, Chris, that MI5′s role in policing is immune of the scrutiny of Police Ombudsman, should complaints arise. Furthermore, MI5 will take control of “national security” from the PSNI, regarding republican “dissidents” as a threat to the state but not regarding loyalists as such, on the grounds that dissidents are anti-state and loyalists are pro-state. So, in short, it’s still okay to kill Catholics if you kill them in support of the state. Given the history of MI5 in “the dirty war,” we can expect to see republicans being killed by the state or the state colluding in their murders, while Sinn Fein does what, exactly? Condemn a practice that it failed to prevent? Hardly, more likely it will take a stoop approach of ‘hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.’ That’s politics. MI5 has already nullified the so-called Andrews’ “concession†by actively seeking to recruit RUC officers who left the force prior to Patton, circa 2001.
The Dubliner | 12.29.06 – 10:57 am | #
I cut and paste this here not as a personal attack on you but because it is relevant to this thread. People need to understand a lack of clarity and consistency in your postings on and to South Armagh. It is clear as day to people who know what they are talking about that you do not know what you are talking about, merely ripping pages out of Moloney and Hardin and seeing what sticks –but to people less familiar with the area the dubiousness of both your vision and experience may be less obvious.
I have the same doubts about Jim McAllister. As with the Dubliner, I listen but I still have no idea what it is he truly wants for the people I care for in a scarred but beautiful place with a history more “full of weeping” than most can understand.
Some facts hopefully all can agree about Stephen and Briege Quinn, parents of a murdered twenty-one year old:
1.) They are grieving for their youngest child.
2.) Like many others, they do not feel the local residents must possess or prove “innocent angel” status to escape torture and execution without trial or right to appeal.
3.) They are constituents.
(For the benefit of “p”, the Quinns are not aliens, naught to do with the invasion of Iraq, nor are they abortionists.)
As constituents, the Quinns are entitled to the support of their elected representatives. I do not think anyone expects them to be invited to Downing Street, or whisked off to lunch at the White House, any time in the near future. It falls, then, on local representatives to stand beside them.
As I said, I can make little sense of what Jim McAllister’s sense of “fair and just policing” is, or how it could be attained, but it is the Quinn Support Group, of which McAllister is but a part, as well as El Blogador and few others who is standing beside the Quinns and standing up for the Quinns now.
The Quinn Support Group launched their website a few days ago, and yesterday they called for clarity on the positions of the four SF councillors representing the Slieve Guillion ward.
http://www.quinnsupport.com/news.htm
from the site:
“It takes a while to notice a dog that doesn’t bark, but the silence of these four councillors on the murder of Paul Quinn is now deafening. Over the last few weeks they have expressed strong opinions on everything from rates relief to the Warm Homes Scheme and social housing, as they should, but on the matter of brutal premeditated murder they have nothing to say. Five weeks after the murder, silence of the lambs. At least the Cullyhanna Community Safety Group finally wound up its courage to issue a few lines of condemnation, even if it can’t quite manage answering the phone number it has posted up on poles and trees. But from the councillors, nothing.
“These councillors knocked all our doors at election times, pledging their support for us if we would give our support to them. And we did. But when payback time came – when a family was faced with just about the most horrific event anyone is ever likely to face – they were nowhere to be seen. They were not at the funeral, they were not at the Month’s Mind and they certainly were not at the public meeting even though we issued individual invitations. We are entitled to ask – Why not?”
Susan
A very good post. Regarding the four local councillors, do you know if the press have followed up on this? People pay rates and the rates pay their salaries. This is the most important issue in the area, silence from them should not be acceptable.
The Disgraceful part of all of this episode that follows the death of Paul Quinn is that the PIRA are using double standards by their own now pathetic standards!
A comment earlier that makes me sick is that Mr Murphy and co are blaming this on Criminals (who may have been previously associated with the
Army).
Now if the PIRA exist to be talked to then can someone tell me why the Green Books rules are not applied?
Now in the past a volunteer/(s) was told that if he/they used any training gained for any activities outside of PIRA actions he/they would face the full rath of the Army!
Now can the Army council stand back and allow former members to sullen the name of Republicanism (If they really care)????
Conor Murphy should make these former post office robbers and former IRA activists go to the law now that they are not at war.
Stop the double standards and if you are serious about a civilised society do the civilised thing -
History may stop remembering you for what you are!
The question is why SF do not properly distance themselves from what would appear to be Slab and Co. operating outside the current Republican interests i.e. politics. There is nowhere for Slab to go except perhaps into the arms of the RIRA/CIRA. The IRA although necessary in the past to get the British to the negotiating table now can add nothing to the equation. The beneficaries from this outrage will be the SDLP. An armed organisation NOT fighting the Englezes is a TOTAL liability. As SF should realise the Nationalist people of the North may well dessert them as they other parties in the past because they failed to move with the times.
Rory, SD, I appreciate your call for a civilised society and I think the more kindness shown to the poor parents and support for their calls for their son’s killers to be brought to justice before the law the better. From their first public statements after the death, to the funeral, to the meeting at Cullyhanna community centre they’ve said no retaliation, and one look at the grief and determination seting into stone on their faces would convince anyoone they mean it.
There’s a real grief to see attempts to portray the Quinns as stooges or pawns.
Is it possible they have been given false information? Yes.
Is it possible there are things they do not know? Yes.
But honestly, look at the things they do know. They know their twenty-one year old was skint enough to siphon diesel out of his father’s old tractor to drive to his girlfriend’s the day before he died. They know he was in fights, and they know he was twice ordered to leave the country in connection to the fights. They know when, where, how, and who told him to leave. And they know — from who?– from their boy’s own cousins, tied and forced to overhear, that’s who — that those threats were referenced to their son during the fatal beating.
What would anyone standing in their shoes think?
But at the meeting last week, Briege Quinn said “Please don’t break windows or intimidate people because you are hurting them, but you are also hurting us as well,” she said. If she doesn’t want a window broken she surely would not want to see any broken bones or bodies, and especially not a case of “punishing the monkeys, but letting the organ grinder go” — retaliation against the least connected, least consequential of the men that administered the fatal beating, but not the one or ones who gave the order.
Susan
The ringleaders are rank and file provisionals!
The man who lead it killed a postman during a robbery in 1995 that went horribly wrong.
He then answered to the slab and I have no doubt that he still does.
He is no monkey and does what the organ grinder tells him or whatever means necessary to protect the new found cause – MONEY
Rory, are you referring to the murder of Frank Kerr, in the Newry P.O., in 1994?
Frank was Catholic, and was instrumental in the founding of Shimna Integrated College.
Rory, never mind I asked that, it feels disrespectful to the dead. Without forensic evidence, I just don’t know what can come of the investigations.
Rory
Have you went to the police with your allegations??
If not, why not?
Did Conor Murphy MP go to the guards with the evidence Paul was a criminal and ‘no republicans’ were involved, or did he just repeat what somebody told him?