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On a visit to communities in the Western Isles you will naturally come across Gaelic-speakers.
There’s nowhere in NI you’ll go and experience the same natural use of the language. (The “Culturlann” doesn’t count!)
WILLOWFIELD
I’ve spent a lot of time in the Western Isles and know how much Gaelic is spoken there. The Outer Hebridies are Scotland’s Gaeltacht but that does not mean that people do not speak the language ‘naturally’ outside traditional Gaeltacht areas.
I agree that the figure for Scottish Gaelic speakers equates to this traditional Gaelic-speaking population but that does not mean that the language is used by all on a daily basis. In fact this assumption is far from the truth.
If you are anyway familiar with the Gaelic-speaking community in Scotland you would know that they are at least 15 years behind Gaelic speakers in Ireland in terms of vitality.
Willows,
You missed the telling statistic in RG Cuan’s post.
“To take just one example – 3,500 children attend Irish Gaelic medium education in NI. In the whole of Scotland, there are only 3,000 attending Gaelic medium schools.”
What would you like to see BBCNI show, re Orangeism? You’d have to admit that, by virtue of being a sporting organisation with a spectacular product and a demonstrable audience (packing the stands and terraces), the GAA has a clear televisual appeal?
You’re comparing fenians with Oranges, I think….
Billy Pilgrim
There are quite a few things I would like the BBC to do regarding Orangeism first of all it could give some coverage to the twelfth of August and last Saturday parades. The twelfth of July’s 26 minute bulletin could be extended to an hour and cover all the twelfth demonstrations. Some more documentaries could be broadcast about Orangeism like the excellent one I posted on here regarding the OO in Scotland.
I do agree that Gaelic has a big following and almost every Catholic in NI follows it but since NI has around 100,000 Orangemen, and there were around 1 million in attendance at all the twelfth of July events there is certainly an audience for Orange programmes as well, we pay our licence fees as too you know.
Off topic but on sporting theme:
Sammy – did you see Ray Gravelle’s funeral on the box ? Astonishing – must have been 10,000 people there. Rhodri Morgan, Dafydd Iwan, Hywel Teifi Edwards and Gerald Davies spoke – singing unbelievable and the scoreboard at Strade (where the funeral was held) said:
Llanelli 9
Seland Newydd 3
Heartbreaking afternoon – but we should make the bloke who organised it the next Welsh coach.
The point about Gaelic medium education is a very valid one indeed. That’s were the future is. Scottish Gaels are lagging behind but they’re getting there.
Outsider
there were around 1 million in attendance at all the twelfth of July events
Come on! The population of the north is only 1.7 million. Maybe there was 1 million at Orange events over a 5 year period!
http://www.bord-na-gaidhlig.org.uk/national-plan-for-gaelic.html
Looks like a good plan – I just wonder if it’s in time.
Those school figures are really interesting. I always thought that Scots Gaelic was much stronger.
There are 33,000 children being educated in Irish language schools outside the Irish speaking Gaeltacht areas in the Republic.
George – it will require a huge effort to re -inviogorate. It seems that the goodwill is there and a strategy.
In the South I reckon you need a bit of a revolution to get the language heard and seen. Legislation enforcing bilingualism on the private sector would be a start.
Dewi,
I agree totally apart from the enforcement bit. Not yet anyway.
There certainly does seem to be something afoot so hopefully this linguistic flourishing (rather than revolution) continues apace.
The goodwill is there which hopefully means the gaelscoileanna get the level of support they require in the coming years to meet the demand.
I think that’s the secret and it will be interesting to see if the new curriculum, which is totally skewed towards being able to converse proficiently in the language, has an effect.
If we could get up to 20% of the English speaking area population educated through Irish (it’s 5% at present) we might reach the critical mass where the language comes out of the homes, schools and clubs and into the “mainstream”.
George – maybe and maybe not – but why on God’s earth should Cornflake Packet packaging not have to be in Irish ?…in Ireland ???
Dewi,
difficult to think of a figure in Ireland that has same range of appeal as Ray Gravelle. Funeral was really sad but illustrated all that is good about Welsh culture the language, the singing and the pivotal role of rugby as the National sport.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7096308.stm
And poetry Sammy – interesting blog from Betsan Powys on the funeral.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/betsanpowys/
It really was a moving celebration. Hywel Teifi told the old joke about Edward the First’s soldiers being challenged by a Welsh Warrior in Snowdonia – he first takes on ten, then fifty and beats them. When Edward sends a hundred to fight him one returns mortally wounded and croaks with his dying breath:
“My King don’t send any more it’s a trap – there’s two of them…”
We could do with two Ray Gravelles today….
Dewi,
to introduce a negative note, in Cardiff, outside of the (considerable number) of Welsh speakers not sure if what Ray Gravelle represented it really appreciated. Having seem the abuse heaped on Gareth Jenkins – and that was before the world cup – on the GwladRugby internet site by some posters simply because he was from Llanelli was real eye opener for me.
One of the reasons I both liked Gareth Jenkins and was agianst his sacking because he appeared to following in that LLanelli tradition of achievement coupled with genuine modesty.
On a further note having written off the Irish provinces and assumed that the Welsh regions were going to do extremely well this year – I have now reversed each of those conclusions after the 1st round of Heineken cup matches. Ulster of course being the exception which I really hope the same Gareth Jenkins will put right if given the chance.
Nos da.
Nos Da Sammy – absolutely crucial weekend this one.
Dewi,
if it makes commercial sense, then the Irish language will start making an appearance.
For example, have you seen the latest Carlsberg ad on Irish TV, which uses the Irish language, albeit in a taking the piss of our limited ability to speak it kind of way.
“If it makes commercial sense, then the Irish language will start making an appearance.”
That’s the trouble George – if we rely on commercial sense there is no chance.
Haven’t seen the adver but every little thing helps.
I’m coming very late to all this. Billy Pilgrim and Hogan make fair points about coverage of GAA, and I don’t see why the minimal cost of covering county finals on radio should be a problem, especially given the bitter club rivalries and long traditions that make club level GAA great drama even for a neutral.
Where I disagree is with this fantasy world assessment of the coverage of local rugby. Setanta have all the rights to Celtic League matches for a start. Fair enough, we get radio coverage (whoop de doo) of Heineken cup matches; but remember Ravenhill is regularly sold out for Heiny matches and could probably sell out more than twice over for them. GAA is not the only sport enjoying a boom in popularity in Ireland at the moment.
Oh, and your granny listens to Walter Love. In England, BBC local radio has been directed to ditch the Walter Loves of this world, make no effort to provide radio for over-50s, and chase a mythical trendy middle-aged, middle-class, couple who are already perfectly well provided for by independent radio.
Treasure Walter Love. His programme may be keek, but many people who have no other radio provided for them love Love.
almost every Catholic in NI follows it
That’s right, the same way they all take instructions from their priest on how to fill in social security forms and plot how to steal and forcilbly convert Protestant babies at secret meetings in graveyards in the dead of night.
“To take just one example – 3,500 children attend Irish Gaelic medium education in NI”
Does compulsion count, RGC? I’m thinking of the language being used in conversation as the language of choice.
Complusion? What compulsion?
I’m also thinking of the language being used in conversation as the language of choice.
Fair enough, we get radio coverage (whoop de doo) of Heineken cup matches; but remember Ravenhill is regularly sold out for Heiny matches and could probably sell out more than twice over for them.
Sky Sports owns the TV rights to the Heineken Cup.
“almost every Catholic in NI follows it
That’s right, the same way they all take instructions from their priest on how to fill in social security forms and plot how to steal and forcilbly convert Protestant babies at secret meetings in graveyards in the dead of night.”
i bloody knew it !!!
im surprised anyones bothered about ‘listening’ to a sporting match on the radio. whats the point of listening to someone say things like. “so and so passes to so and so, he shoots, he scores, goal !!!!” whats the point when you cant actually see whats happening !
theres plenty of coverage of GAA games from the southern tv and radio stations. why are people wanting another station to cover games? is 24/7 GAA games across all media what they want?? it seems to me theres more than enough of it around to keep people happy. demanding more is a bit much. there are plenty of other sports and events that would love a bit of air time. could it be that BBC radio know that theres loads of GAA coverage around and have decided to provide a bit of variety?
could it be that BBC radio know that theres loads of GAA coverage around and have decided to provide a bit of variety?
No. The BBC is a public service broadcaster and should provide for its licence payers – soccer fans, rugby fans and Gaelic fans, Irish and English speakers.
Many GAA/CLG competitions in Ulster aren’t covered at all.
yeah, its a public service broadcaster. but theres alot more than GAA and sport in general around you know. by all means ask for coverage, just like other sports and groups. but to make demands and the general tone seems to be a bit like barging to the front of the queue and elbowing other sports and other types of programme out of the way. just seems a bit much to me.
but to make demands and the general tone seems to be a bit like barging to the front of the queue and elbowing other sports and other types of programme out of the way. just seems a bit much to me
What on earth are you talking about?
SéamaÃ: The BBC is a public service broadcaster and should provide for its licence payers – soccer fans, rugby fans and Gaelic fans, Irish and English speakers.
OK then, a plan: Provide good GAA radio coverage, in Irish. That ticks the boxes without colouring in the whole damned Venn diagram.
Provide good GAA radio coverage, in Irish.
Sounds like a good idea to me! Maybe bilingual, i think most Gaelic speakers would be happy with that.
George – maybe and maybe not – but why on God’s earth should Cornflake Packet packaging not have to be in Irish ?…in Ireland ???
Might be because about 95%+ of the population are native english speakers…just a stab in the dark with that one. Good job sticking it in irish, a language which is spoken and understood by a small minority.
dec, i mean it just seems that ‘demanding’ the BBC provide lots of GAA coverage is a bit much. the tone seems to be ‘you must do what we want’ like its some great wrong not to do it. im sure theres plenty of sports and events that would like radio coverage but they’re not trying to portray it as some great injustice if they dont get a programme. thats all.
personally im not a radio listener, but i know that if i want a break from music in the car and flick around the stations, id rather listen to an interesting talk programme than sports coverage. interesting talk on the radio is pretty hard to find! theres plenty of GAA and sport on other stations.
Eranu
“im surprised anyones bothered about ‘listening’ to a sporting match on the radio.”
Clearly you’ve never listened to Michéal O Muircheartaigh commentating on a game? I would not flinch from declaring, without fear of contradiction, that Michéal is without rival the greatest sports commentator on planet Earth. I’d rather listen to Michéal on radio than watch a game on TV, he’s that good.
Of course the best thing is to watch the game on TV with the sound turned down, and listen to O Muircheartaigh’s commentary. He makes even the dullest game sound like a classic. His listeners are riveted even by games they have only a passing interest in. I, and generations of GAA fans, have cherished memories of Sunday afternoons spent in the company of the great man, as he recounts events in Clones or Thurles.
“What’s the point when you cant actually see whats happening!”
Check out the great man next time he’s on. RTE, Sunday afternoons. You’ll understand.
As for the rest of your post: adequate radio coverage is NOT there. The recent county finals were not broadcast anywhere. Downtown, Citybeat, U105 etc don’t have any particular responsibilities to the public beyond those stipulated in their licenses. The BBC, however, DOES have responsibilities to those of us who pay the license fee.
And as was said earlier, Radio Ulster has both FM and MW frequencies, and can split their broadcasts between the two. So there’s no need to get rid of Walter Love. Keep Walter on FM, so the grannies are looked after. But let the GAA fans get their fix on MW. (Or vice versa, it doesn’t really matter which.)
Eranu
“I mean it just seems that ‘demanding’ the BBC provide lots of GAA coverage is a bit much.”
Clearly the county finals are hugely popular and of great public interest. The same is true of the Ulster Club Championship games, of inter-county league games, of inter-county championship games etc. The cost of providing a radio broadcast would be minimal. With two bandwidths available, scheduling is not a problem. No existing programme has to be shelved in order to accommodate live broadcasts.
So clearly license fee holders are entitled to ask why these games are not being covered. They’re also entitled to point out that the popularity of these games compares favorably with that of some games that DO receive coverage. However, everyone has been at pains to stress that this in no ways suggests that other sports should not also be properly catered-for. Good luck to soccer, rugby, motor sports and whomever else.
But it’s fair to point out that we’re talking about the most popular spectator sport in NI, and that it receives relatively scant coverage.
“…the tone seems to be ‘you must do what we want’ like its some great wrong not to do it.”
The question is, why on earth wouldn’t the BBC provide adequate coverage? What justification can there be for this ongoing neglect?
“I’m sure theres plenty of sports and events that would like radio coverage but they’re not trying to portray it as some great injustice if they dont get a programme.”
But do these other events command the sheer volume of public interest that GAA does? The point is that Gaelic football has THE MOST COMPELLING case for coverage of all sports, yet receives little.
“there’s plenty of GAA and sport on other stations.”
None of the county finals were broadcast anywhere. More than 100,000 people attended Ulster’s county finals this year – two or three each Sunday over the space of a few weeks. It would have been logical to broadcast these events – which are a HUGE deal within the counties – with perhaps live commentary from one game and regular updates from the others. TG4 broadcast the Armagh County Final on TV and I understand had huge viewing figures.
Radio Ulster seem to have been unaware these games were going on. Well, perhaps it’s time the GAA fraternity let them know.
If 100,000 watch the County Finals there is no one left at home to listen.
This must be the reason.
Any way I want Billiards to be broadcast on radio in colour—-any chance?
It would make great listening.
“Complusion? What compulsion?”
The schools are selected by the parents, RGC. The children are unlikely to have had any say in the matter.
Come on! The population of the north is only 1.7 million. Maybe there was 1 million at Orange events over a 5 year period!
Seamai
What about the Orangemen/Bands and supporters that came from the mainland, America, Canada and the ROI etc? Statistics and figures released at this years events indicate that collectively there were over one million in attendance at the 12th demonstrations across NI.
Not much coverage on Slugger regarding the death threats that four Orangemen have received.
NEVIN
The schools are selected by the parents, RGC. The children are unlikely to have had any say in the matter.
Now that must be one of the most ridiculous posts against non-English medium education i’ve ever heard.
If you equate school selection with language compulsion you can of course say exactly the same about any school, English language, German, Spanish etc.
RGC, I made my point in the context of language of choice but you’ve wandered off into a different field entirely. Let me know when you return ….
the way the recent cuts in the BBC are going, they’ll not even have the funds to cover irish league football and have already sold off the internationals to Sky
think we’ll all have to settle to watch an england match or else fork out the money for sky and setanta
Nevin – do you think 4 year olds should have a vote ?
“Nevin – do you think 4 year olds should have a vote?”
I thought you were more than 4, Dewi … or is Dewi just a ‘devius’ kind of guy, a bit of an old ‘santer’?
In some homes, 4 year-olds might well dominate their parents!
What’s the derivation of Nefyn? A holy mountain?
http://tinyurl.com/349fm4
Professor Hywel Wyn Owen knows nothing – except he think’s it’s Oirish !!!