“We cannot allow this to be brushed under the carpet..”
With Lord Laird reportedly about to name those he believes to be responsible for the killing of Paul Quinn, under parliamentary privilege in the House of Lords, the BBC have reported that the IMC have said that they believe current and former members of the Provisional IRA may have been responsible but it was “too early to say if it was authorised by the IRA leadership” – and here’s a reminder of some of the earlier political reaction. From the BBC report
“The IRA Army Council did not sanction the killing, but IRA members did kill Paul,” said Lord Laird at the weekend. “I will name names and lay-out all the information I have. We cannot allow this to be brushed under the carpet like Robert McCartney, the Northern Bank and Denis Donaldson. I am not just getting at Sinn Fein, but the security services, the government, the lot. I am deeply concerned at what appears to be a lack of progress by the security services on both sides of the border.”
Adds In a statement on the SF website, the NI Regional Development Minister, Sinn Féin’s Conor Murphy, MP, MLA – who has stated that “[He does] not believe that there is any republican involvement in this murder.” – “has dismissed the comments of John Grieve and Lord Laird as wholly political and utterly devoid of fact.” Adds It’s reported that Lord Laird has followed through on his promise. And That report is confirmed by Hansard. [permalink added]Lord Laird, under parliamentary privilege, told the House of Lords [permalink added]
“One of the most serious incidents has too many shades of the past for us all: the brutal murder of Paul Quinn. It resulted from a dispute between Paul and a son of Vincent Traynor, a local IRA chief. Paul Quinn and some other youths from the area were involved in activities that did not go down well with the senior republican leadership in South Armagh, especially as this new breed of republicans is defying the leadership. It is now quite clear that Vincent had oversold the case against Paul.
Several weeks ago Traynor asked the republican leadership, including Peter and Patrick Quinn from Bog Road—no relations—who run most of the illegal fuel laundering plants in South Armagh for the IRA, to have Quinn executed. After consultation with PJ Carragher and his son Michael, the well known murderous sniper, Thomas “Slab” Murphy, the Provisionals’ commander in the area, Sean Gerard Hughes, known as “the Surgeon”, and James McArdle, permission for the execution was given. Almost 20 republicans were present at the murder as executioners, lookouts, drivers and so on. The eight or nine who conducted the execution were dressed in boiler suits and wore surgical gloves. All were IRA or former IRA members. It took almost half an hour for Paul to die. Every major bone in his body was broken. During the execution he cried for mercy.
Following the murder and the outcry from all parts, a meeting took place in Cullyhanna on Friday 2 November. Although “Slab” Murphy did not attend, a trusted lieutenant was there to speak on his behalf. To quell local discontent, and under pressure from the top, “Slab” offered to put a large amount of cash into the Cullyhanna area in the hope that buying people off with blood money would stop a rift between republicans in South Armagh. The involvement of the republican leadership in South Armagh in the planning, commission and now cover-up of this murder means that it is directly implicated. “Slab” also ordered that no one in the community was to speak to the Garda or PSNI. He was taking full responsibility for the incident because his close associates were involved.
Having felt that they had to blame someone, on 9 November, Friday night past, six armed IRA men went to the home of Vincent Traynor and forced their way in, but Vincent was not there. For the past week Vincent Traynor has been guarded by the police quick reaction force based at Crossmaglen and Newtownhamilton PSNI barracks. Responding to the visit, the QRF was at his house in a matter of minutes, but the IRA gang had gone. Vincent Traynor is now considered to be number one on the IRA hit list because he talked the leadership in South Armagh into the situation that saw the brutal and savage murder of Paul Quinn.
The blame for the murder and the subsequent situation has to lie with the IRA. The IRA veterans of South Armagh want to bring into line the young republicans of the area who are openly defying the leadership. Given those activities, “Slab” Murphy should have his bail in the Republic revoked, as he is now involved in the intimidation of witnesses. At his next court appearance, he should be held in custody while papers for his extradition to Northern Ireland are prepared.
Extreme republicans close to the IRA Army Council are trying to suggest that Paul Quinn’s family is being manipulated to create anti-Sinn Fein propaganda. This is not so. I have been contacted by a number of people and groups from the area who would not normally consider me as a friend asking that the police remove and prosecute those involved, and get them off the streets.
To clarify the situation, if any charges as a result of this murder are brought before the Irish courts, I have not influenced a potential jury by my remarks. It must be remembered that any court without a jury would be a special court. Both Governments need to deal with this type of criminal activity. To brush it under the carpet, as seems to many to be taking place, is just a short-term solution. The island of Ireland will never be at peace until illegal activities are tackled in full and equality is in total operation.”
I would be VERY surprised if anything as forthright as this appears in the next IMC report. There will be no end of pressure from the DUPes and the government to jump on anything like this coming out.
Sammy
The IMC did hold a press conference today on this issue.. I’m waiting to see what’s published online.
A lot can happen in the time between a press conference and an IMC report. Expect the governments to be applying pressure- it’s up to the IMC to decide whether it will indeed remain independent, or roll over.
There really should be some Parliamentary rules introduced on this, it’s an abuse of Parliamentary Privilege, and in an unelected chamber at that.
Surely it’s only an issue if the current or former members were acting under orders? If not, then it’s a criminal gang with better training than other criminals. As opposed to a bunch of terrorists.
then it’s a criminal gang with better training than other criminals
Exactly right. However depressingly predictable responses from the various factions will use this issue for their own purposes. For some they will be looked on as thugs/criminals who killed this man for financial gain, for others it will be the PIRA and Stormont should be closed down. Again.
I predict the DUP to be the first to accept this as a criminal, non-sanctioned act by ex-IRA men, whether they believe it or not. I suggest that they don’t care and never did.
peteb
“I’m waiting to see what’s published online”
I would suggest that the last thing on your mind is waiting to see what is published, or indeed what the Lord has to say. Hence this untimely post !
I find it touching that Laird Laird is so concerned about this.
I wonder if this will entail Laird Laird attending lots of meetings with various government departments and of course the odd taxi ride!!
WEll if it wasn’t for this you would not realise Laird Laird was still alive, after all there has been nothing going on in N.I since devolution that he would feel qualified to talk about.
Cynical me…….. not a bit of it
Overhere
Thats a particularly tasteless comment given that Lord Laird has been very ill and was recovering for the last year or so.
Does anyone think that Lord Laird would be taking such a principled stance if the Ulster Unionists’ electoral fortunes were different and it was they that shared power with SF and not the DUP?
This was another barbaric killing by men who think they can rule the border regions anyway they like. It is not political in any sense – just pure gangsterism. While the media have portrayed Paul Quinn as yet anothher saint murdered by IRA thugs, this was another ugly dispute between greedy people. Suspending govt at Stormont is not the answer – concerted action by both police forces and pressure from all parties on both sides of the bborder is what is required to root it out.
“the media have portrayed Paul Quinn as yet anothher saint”
I must have missed that as I’ve only seen him portrayed as someone who was brutally murdered.
Lord Laird can only do harm, because someone will walk from a courthouse waving his statement as proof that they can’t get a fair trial. Laird is motivated by the worst kind of political point-scoring, trying to embarrass the DUP. No one in South Armagh seriously believes this murder was sanctioned at top Provo level – in fact no one believes the Provo gang even meant to kill Paul Quinn – and there need be no threat to the power-sharing Executive from its investigation. But the Sinn Fein knee-jerk response that ‘no republicans were involved’ is simply farcical, and their ill-conceived attempt at spin may in itself pose a threat to political co-operation. Because now, their quite unnecessary lies about Paul Quinn will be found out. Gerry Adams returned to the fray at Edentubber with talk about criminal elements and political exploitation of the murder. But he can’t suppress the truth that the family know the truth about the people Paul fell out with, their threats and the attempt to exile him. if no republicans were involved, why are they so intent on attacking the family and protecting the murderers? Why not just say let the law take its course no matter who is involved?
If the Lord is so confident in his knowledge why does he need parliamentary priledge
It wouldnt be because he doesnt relly know anything just what the rumours say so he has to be a coward and not put his money where his mouth is
Dont get me wrong Beano – it was a brutal killing, really revolting. He was also a partner of the gangsters who killed him. My point is thatthe rush to find another “Stormont crisis” story overlooks facts. I hope that all 15 (or whatever number) of the men who killed him are jailed but this was a not a political crime and there is no reason why it should derail good work at Stormont.
When is his statement due anyone ?
gum, that was a nasty piece of work. What was greedy about Paul Quinn? Nobody has claimed he was a saint, he drove a lorry for 50 quid a day when he could get the work. He was tricked into going to the hayshed by the chance of a day’s work. Do you know how this supposed diesel king got there? In a beat-up old Carina diesel, and he had to siphon a couple of pints of diesel out of his father’s tractor to get there. There is only one group of criminals involved here, the ones who battered him to death. Nothing has hurt the family as much as the criminality spin, which is absolutely groundless. it took a 20-man operation to get him, a fully boiler-suited, forensically aware operation run under a clear command structure. Some of the recent reporting, particularly in the Sunday Tribune, is extremely accurate and the Garda Siochana have pieced together the identities of most of the team on the ground and the main elements in the South Armagh command structure. The Provos wore gloves, but their fingerprints are all over this, from the original threat to the clean-up in the shed and the political cover-up that kicked in immediately with lies about Paul Quinn and political character assassination about Jim McAllister, whose every word was agreed by the family.
Red Diesal –
I was under the impression that he has been a part of smuggling in the area. That’s what I heard in the initial report of the incident but seems to be disputed by most reports since. If I was misinformed I stand corrected. I was disgusted by the killing, was shocked at what Quinn had to endure and feel very sorry for his family. My point was I feel that its being used to derail progress at Stormont – if frustration at political point scoring caused me to be insufficiently careful in my post I apologise.
I have heard that republicans Pat McNamee (and Jim Mcallister (former SF MLA’s from Crossmaglen) are going to point the finger at the IRA. Is that correct?
“No one in South Armagh seriously believes this murder was sanctioned at top Provo level – in fact no one believes the Provo gang even meant to kill Paul Quinn – and there need be no threat to the power-sharing Executive from its investigation. But the Sinn Fein knee-jerk response that ‘no republicans were involved’ is simply farcical, and their ill-conceived attempt at spin may in itself pose a threat to political co-operation.”
Spot the DUP party hack already spinning.
“And let’s not miss another vital point in the movable feast that passes for morality here, even if this young fella had been up to his arse in fuel smuggling, diesel laundering and whatever else, no one had the right to kill him – period.”
Something I posted on another thread, but always worth bearing in mind.
The Lord Laird thing, incidentally, stinks to high heaven of political exploitation of the worst kind.
When did a unionist MP or Lord ever use parliamenatry privilege to name loyalist terrorists, even those murdering their own people?
Never, never, never!
The Intervention by the IMC – why?????
Laird you can understand but journo’s based here didn’t even know there was an IMC press conference until Grieve popped up on the BBC.
It is difficult to disentangle everything – some say it was in S Armagh so it must be the provos – others say he was involved will fuel smugglers so it must of been them.
Surely the issue of this threat is just how many people want to take this dreadful death to beat up (pun intended) on Sinn F̩in Рsurely what we really want is for some convictions.
as i said before,
republicans are explaining this awyd in the area as paul quinn be a “bad wee bastard”
once by a well known apolgist for IRA in the area and once by a person i belive to be well connected the republican movement.
regardless of politcal outcomes, the killers of quinn should be revealed. the people of south armagh already know it was the RA.
I think the IMC’s next report will be a lot let interesting than Lord Laird’s speech. It is easy to rant under privilage but it is a differnet thing to issue a supposedly accurate and impartial report, although that never seems to have bothered the IMC in the past.
The IMC were never an ‘independent’ body and were flawed from the outset. They continue to trot out the line the British government and the NIO feed them.
They have never had any investigative powers and their inforamtion seems to be base on what they have learned from regional newspapers and briefings from the NIO mandarins.
I doubt the Quin case will be mentioned in anything but general terms in the next IMC report.
‘In a statement on the SF website, the NI Regional Development Minister, Sinn Féin’s Conor Murphy, MP, MLA – who has stated that “[He does] not believe that there is any republican involvement in this murder.†– “has dismissed the comments of John Grieve and Lord Laird as wholly political and utterly devoid of fact.†‘
Brilliant! A MP and MEP, no less, stating that there was no republican involvment! Now we all know SF have their own definition of a ‘crime’ and whats ‘not a crime’. Is there to be a defintion of a ‘republican’ and ‘not a republican’??
I think SF should forget about the Irish language, but invest some cash on distributing some kind of english to SF translational resource so we can make head or tail of what they are on about?
Does anyone actually believe any of the stuff that comes out of this guys mouth – ‘no republican involvement’ – sheesh, do people not get fed up of these lies?
Has John Laird gone to the police with this information of his? Seems to me that, without going to the cops, telling the House of Lords is as weaselly as telling community representatives as your first port of call.
“Has John Laird gone to the police with this information of his? ”
more likely “have the police gone to John Laird with this information (suspicion?) of theirs?”
If so is’nt this illegal?
Lord Laird of Artigarvan has named a number of people from South Armagh in connection with the murder.
It would be more relevant to ask who briefs the IMC.. and why there’s been little other reaction.
Anyway, I’ve updated the original post to note Lord Laird’s contribution.
What did he say ? Seriously is it now in the public domain or is reporting House of Lords stuff illegal. See the BBC ain’t said nowt.
Dewi
Psst. Below the fold..
Got it Pete – sorry.
“Mr McDowell indicated that the republican movement has already placed people in the top positions of authority: the PM’s office, the police force, the army, major sections of the Government and the media.”
you have to laugh at that, credibility ruined immediately. Does the PM know?
“It would be more relevant to ask who briefs the IMC? ”
I disagree Pete. If the police are briefing unionist politicians to achieve political ends then this is unacceptable.
Remember that Unionist politicians took down an earlier power sharing administration because of allegations that a civil servant was leaking Blair/NIO communication to SF. Why is this unacceptable but irrelevant when the police leak information to the UP.?
You, more than most, have blogged on the need for support for policing (I would stress the rule of law -but that is another debate.) Do you think that the PSNI leaking unproven claims to a unionist peer will lead to support for the PSNI from the people of S. Armagh? Is this no an example of political policing that was supposed to be a thing of the past?
Has anyone verified the rumor I heard that two ex SF MLA’s were going to point the finger at the IRA? I have met those two guys and they strike me as real republicans -not people interested in enriching themselves.
It does seem like the Laird just pulled names at random from Harndon’s Bandit Country.
“Has John Laird gone to the police with this information of his? “
What would be the point? Given the ‘success’ of police investigations into Omagh, Donaldson, the Northern Bank and McCartney, the keystone cops were slick professionals.
Circumstancially alone, this murder leads straight to the brave boys of the ra.
Who else could pull off this size of an operation in that area? Who else would need eight or nine men to murder one 21 year old? Why would the family point the finger immediately if they weren’t involved? And SFs flat-out denial that republicans were involved clinches it.
Laird hasn’t prejudiced any trial as there won’t be one. The only real question is what the DUP should do. I suspect that Trimble in a similar hole would issue a first public warning, together with a signed letter of resignation if something similar happens again.
heck: Is this no an example of political policing that was supposed to be a thing of the past?
It might be, if there was any evidence that Laird got his information from the police. But in his statement he pointed out that he had lots of local sources. Maybe they include your rumoured ex-SF MLAs, or the local outbreak of wall-paintings.
However, I note your supposition that the PSNI had leaked hasn’t quite turned into an accusation yet. You will let us know when you are ready to go for it? And then tell us where the police got the detailed information from, if the local community isn’t leaking much, much more than it did in the old days.
A typical and cynical attitude of a unionist politician. They all shout from the heavens when republicans murder their own people and demand justice and name names and want to meet the Prime minister, but when it comes to loyalist para scum murdering protestants what do they do??
Why have the unionist politicians brushed under the carpet the paid loyalist serial killers who have been exposed and why wont they campaign for justice with ANY of the victims families???
Why do the unionist communities still vote in people who wont stand up against THEIR OWN para scum?? I would certainly say from their ignorance and denial of paid loyalist killers that they are all in the same murky corrupt and well organised team!!
But like all murky waters sooner or later the s*** rises to the top for all to see.
http://www.nuzhound.com/articles/Sunday_Tribune/arts2007/oct28_attack_on_Quinn_ordered_by_IRA__SBreen.php
a reasonable overview?
Lord Laird may have cynical political reasons for raising this issue. He may be trying to embarrass the DUP for what seems to be trying to brush this murder under the carpet.
However, the speech he made makes very specific allegations and appears to name persons who have previously been identified as senior members of the IRA. It seems to show an extremely well organised criminal murder conspiracy by the IRA, followed by a coordinated attempt to prevent the culprits being held accountable.
Whatever Laird’s reasons for raising this issue, the reaction from the DUP, IMC and governments is interesting. Yes they are being cautious but one gets the impression that they are all trying deperately to find a way of not admitting that the IRA was coporately involved.
I believe spotlight at running with the story tonight – should make interesting viewing.
Now is the time to stand up and be counted. If the chucks say these people are criminals then let’s be having the lot of them arrested. They can be easily identified, what with two living witnesses. Let’s see the Republican movement stand up to these fucking scumbags and put them in jail.
P.S. – thanks for the info there agh, interesting stuff from Breen, will catch the spotlight later.
To parci – Lord Laird was talking about “the takeover of the Irish Republic’s main establishment by placing in its ranks IRA supporters as sleepers or moles.”
You only have to look at RTE – it always treats Sinn Fein IRA with kid gloves.
I dunno but it seems to me that everyone who hates Sinn Féin wants there to be ‘republican’ involvement in this (and let’s not forget it) dreadful murder.
But the Laird stuff does does look at bit bonkers – not so much information as insanity.
As for people like McNamee who is trailed on the BBC for the spotlight programme tonight – most people couldn’t belive that he even got onto the SF ticket
The sad thing in this is the targeting of Vincent Traynor. I heard somewhere that his wife actually nursed Jim McAllisters wife when she was dying and that this 60 old man was attacked by the dead man that it happened months ago.
[edited moderator]
Will there be arrests and convictions – who knows; are the Gardai and PSNI looking in the right direction – who knows.
Are there a load of wishful thinking wankers trying to make some sad political milage out of it – well everyone knows the answer to that.
Will it be the end of the Executive – No.
nmc – 2 of the people named by laird are close relatives of the 2 witnesses.
outstanding in my field has a good grasp of the situation.
Exclusion orders have been used and abused in that area for dog years, long, long past the ceasefire. Those on the periphery are told it is to manage “touts” or “bad bits of business,” but the families affected — quite often republican families — know differently. When I heard of this murder, my assumption was that it was meant to send a message, and not to the late Paul Quinn, RIP.
I wouldn’t trust Laird or McAllister to have the best interests of either the Quinn family or the people of South Armagh at heart. But the voices of the plain people of Cullyhanna interviewed in the Tribune article ring true to me, and those dismissing them as “enemies of SF” are as guilty of “wishful thinking” as those hoping to see this obscenely brutal murder to bring down the Executive.
The plain people in the Tribune piece don’t give their names, and I don’t blame them. Neither can I.
It is implicit in Laird’s statement that the government of NI does not have control of part of its territory. That is a very serious charge with wide-ranging implications.
Spotlight moving , especially the poor Mother. Nothing new though.
Any fair viewing of the facts would suggest at least individual Provo involvement. Fairly desperate effort by Conor Murphy to suggest Quinn repsonsible for his own death by being a criminal. Sinn Fein position – which will probably change if pressure kept on – is not credible. The issue of sanctioning by the leadership will be too estoeric for most Unionists – looks like curtains for the assembly and some sort of post agreement rupture of SF if they want to survive as largest Nationalist party.