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	<title>Comments on: Archipelagic in thought and letter</title>
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	<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/10/28/archipelagic-in-thought-and-letter/</link>
	<description>Conversation, politics and stray insights</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Harry Flashman</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/10/28/archipelagic-in-thought-and-letter/comment-page-2/#comment-184505</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Flashman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 05:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-184505</guid>
		<description>Das vidanya (is that right?).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Das vidanya (is that right?).</p>
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		<title>By: dewi</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/10/28/archipelagic-in-thought-and-letter/comment-page-2/#comment-184278</link>
		<dc:creator>dewi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 19:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-184278</guid>
		<description>Last from me - Olga Korbut - gorgeous! Yeah our behaviour not good - just can&#039;t resist.
And Chekov will ya keep to the subject of archipalegic culture like what the rest of us hqave managed so successfully......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last from me &#8211; Olga Korbut &#8211; gorgeous! Yeah our behaviour not good &#8211; just can&#8217;t resist.<br />
And Chekov will ya keep to the subject of archipalegic culture like what the rest of us hqave managed so successfully&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Chekov</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/10/28/archipelagic-in-thought-and-letter/comment-page-2/#comment-184267</link>
		<dc:creator>Chekov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 19:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-184267</guid>
		<description>They wouldn&#039;t have maintained a land empire stretching from the Pacific to the Baltic under a liberal democracy. :-) Empires are great! Russification was great too!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They wouldn&#8217;t have maintained a land empire stretching from the Pacific to the Baltic under a liberal democracy. <img src='http://sluggerotoole.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  Empires are great! Russification was great too!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Harry Flashman</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/10/28/archipelagic-in-thought-and-letter/comment-page-2/#comment-184266</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Flashman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 19:16:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-184266</guid>
		<description>Dewi, d&#039;ya think we&#039;ve thrashed this thread to death already?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dewi, d&#8217;ya think we&#8217;ve thrashed this thread to death already?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: dewi</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/10/28/archipelagic-in-thought-and-letter/comment-page-2/#comment-184263</link>
		<dc:creator>dewi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 19:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-184263</guid>
		<description>Seriously read &quot;At the Court of the Red Tsar&quot; horrific stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seriously read &#8220;At the Court of the Red Tsar&#8221; horrific stuff.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: dewi</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/10/28/archipelagic-in-thought-and-letter/comment-page-2/#comment-184260</link>
		<dc:creator>dewi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 19:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-184260</guid>
		<description>And of course Detective Arklady Renko - incomparable star from the pen of Cruz Smith....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And of course Detective Arklady Renko &#8211; incomparable star from the pen of Cruz Smith&#8230;.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: dewi</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/10/28/archipelagic-in-thought-and-letter/comment-page-2/#comment-184252</link>
		<dc:creator>dewi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:57:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-184252</guid>
		<description>Some half decent agitprop posters ? 
The word Stakanovite - always loved it.
The liberation of Afghanistan with resultant opening of Celtic lapis lazuli trade ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some half decent agitprop posters ?<br />
The word Stakanovite &#8211; always loved it.<br />
The liberation of Afghanistan with resultant opening of Celtic lapis lazuli trade ?</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Harry Flashman</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/10/28/archipelagic-in-thought-and-letter/comment-page-2/#comment-184232</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Flashman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-184232</guid>
		<description>They would have got there a lot earlier if their famous &quot;chief designer&quot;, the father of Russian rocketry and whose name escape me just at this moment, hadn&#039;t spent six years in the gulag as a result of one of the insane Communist purges.

This man was way ahead of Von Braun in developing ballistic weapons but of course instead of the Red Army having the ability to launch cruise missles on Berlin in 1943, he was languishing in a prsion cell as a result of Communist insanity.

Try harder Dewi, you&#039;re doing great son, you&#039;ll come up with something eventually. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They would have got there a lot earlier if their famous &#8220;chief designer&#8221;, the father of Russian rocketry and whose name escape me just at this moment, hadn&#8217;t spent six years in the gulag as a result of one of the insane Communist purges.</p>
<p>This man was way ahead of Von Braun in developing ballistic weapons but of course instead of the Red Army having the ability to launch cruise missles on Berlin in 1943, he was languishing in a prsion cell as a result of Communist insanity.</p>
<p>Try harder Dewi, you&#8217;re doing great son, you&#8217;ll come up with something eventually. <img src='http://sluggerotoole.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: dewi</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/10/28/archipelagic-in-thought-and-letter/comment-page-2/#comment-184215</link>
		<dc:creator>dewi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 17:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-184215</guid>
		<description>First in Space ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First in Space ?</p>
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		<title>By: Harry Flashman</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/10/28/archipelagic-in-thought-and-letter/comment-page-2/#comment-184155</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Flashman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 15:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-184155</guid>
		<description>*The Soviets survived because of their ability to mobilise human and material resources.*

Yes after allying with, arming and supplying the Nazis the Communists finally mobilised to fight them.

Maybe the Nazis would have caused serious problems to the Russians under a democratic government but at least in that situation the Russian army would have started the war as a functioning, well armed, disciplined force with well trained officers rather than the dysfunctional, paranoid, ill equipped rabble that Stalin&#039;s purges had created and which lost millions of prisoners and millions of square miles of territory because the Communists couldn&#039;t believe their good friends the Nazis would ever attack them.

I repeat my question:

&quot;Name one single achievement of the Soviets that the Russian people wouldnâ€™t have been able to achieve with a liberal democratic government?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*The Soviets survived because of their ability to mobilise human and material resources.*</p>
<p>Yes after allying with, arming and supplying the Nazis the Communists finally mobilised to fight them.</p>
<p>Maybe the Nazis would have caused serious problems to the Russians under a democratic government but at least in that situation the Russian army would have started the war as a functioning, well armed, disciplined force with well trained officers rather than the dysfunctional, paranoid, ill equipped rabble that Stalin&#8217;s purges had created and which lost millions of prisoners and millions of square miles of territory because the Communists couldn&#8217;t believe their good friends the Nazis would ever attack them.</p>
<p>I repeat my question:</p>
<p>&#8220;Name one single achievement of the Soviets that the Russian people wouldnâ€™t have been able to achieve with a liberal democratic government?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Garibaldy</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/10/28/archipelagic-in-thought-and-letter/comment-page-2/#comment-184101</link>
		<dc:creator>Garibaldy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 12:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-184101</guid>
		<description>Yeah Harry. It wasn&#039;t like the German army was walking all over all types of governments all over Europe. Britain survived only because it was an island. The Soviets survived because of their ability to mobilise human and material resources.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah Harry. It wasn&#8217;t like the German army was walking all over all types of governments all over Europe. Britain survived only because it was an island. The Soviets survived because of their ability to mobilise human and material resources.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry Flashman</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/10/28/archipelagic-in-thought-and-letter/comment-page-2/#comment-184075</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Flashman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 05:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-184075</guid>
		<description>If the Russians had had a competent, democratic government instead of paranoid scizophrenic Communists in charge, the Germans never would have got as far as the Kursk salient in the first place!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the Russians had had a competent, democratic government instead of paranoid scizophrenic Communists in charge, the Germans never would have got as far as the Kursk salient in the first place!</p>
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		<title>By: Dewi</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/10/28/archipelagic-in-thought-and-letter/comment-page-2/#comment-183981</link>
		<dc:creator>Dewi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 23:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-183981</guid>
		<description>&quot;Oh sorry one other thing, name one single achievement of the Soviets that the Russian people wouldnâ€™t have been able to achieve with a liberal democratic government&quot;

Kursk Salient.

Can&#039;t resist can I.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Oh sorry one other thing, name one single achievement of the Soviets that the Russian people wouldnâ€™t have been able to achieve with a liberal democratic government&#8221;</p>
<p>Kursk Salient.</p>
<p>Can&#8217;t resist can I.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry Flashman</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/10/28/archipelagic-in-thought-and-letter/comment-page-2/#comment-183770</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Flashman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-183770</guid>
		<description>Oh sorry one other thing, name one single achievement of the Soviets that the Russian people wouldn&#039;t have been able to achieve with a liberal democratic government? 

Remember Joe Stalin and his Communist friends almost single handedly led Russia to massive defeat when his ally and friend Adolf Hitler betrayed him and attacked a Red Army that had been utterly demoralised and eviscerated by paranoid Communist purges.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh sorry one other thing, name one single achievement of the Soviets that the Russian people wouldn&#8217;t have been able to achieve with a liberal democratic government? </p>
<p>Remember Joe Stalin and his Communist friends almost single handedly led Russia to massive defeat when his ally and friend Adolf Hitler betrayed him and attacked a Red Army that had been utterly demoralised and eviscerated by paranoid Communist purges.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry Flashman</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/10/28/archipelagic-in-thought-and-letter/comment-page-2/#comment-183768</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Flashman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:27:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-183768</guid>
		<description>*I think a socialist world would be fairer and more equitable than the one we have today.*

That&#039;s plain enough then, I&#039;ll take that as a no.

Amazing! You believe that a system of government which never managed to achieve the consent of a majority of voters in a single national election in a hundred years but which during its time of operation saw the murder of at least a hundred million innocent men women and children and the enslavement of at least a billion more, is superior to the system in which you are free to express your political views and leads you and your family to live in peace, health and prosperity.

Have you tried Pyongyang, Garibaldy? I believe the weather&#039;s lovely at this time of year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*I think a socialist world would be fairer and more equitable than the one we have today.*</p>
<p>That&#8217;s plain enough then, I&#8217;ll take that as a no.</p>
<p>Amazing! You believe that a system of government which never managed to achieve the consent of a majority of voters in a single national election in a hundred years but which during its time of operation saw the murder of at least a hundred million innocent men women and children and the enslavement of at least a billion more, is superior to the system in which you are free to express your political views and leads you and your family to live in peace, health and prosperity.</p>
<p>Have you tried Pyongyang, Garibaldy? I believe the weather&#8217;s lovely at this time of year.</p>
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		<title>By: Nevin</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/10/28/archipelagic-in-thought-and-letter/comment-page-2/#comment-183758</link>
		<dc:creator>Nevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:59:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-183758</guid>
		<description>&quot;What is articulated, strengthens&quot; ... prejudice?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What is articulated, strengthens&#8221; &#8230; prejudice?</p>
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		<title>By: Nevin</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/10/28/archipelagic-in-thought-and-letter/comment-page-2/#comment-183755</link>
		<dc:creator>Nevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:56:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-183755</guid>
		<description>So, the literary folks are slowly catching up with the slowly evolving political archipelago as outlined in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nio.gov.uk/agreement.pdf&quot;&gt;Strand Three of the 1998 Agreement&lt;/a&gt;. [pdf file]

Hows about a little sample from the literary world of St John of Hume in his &quot;Personal Views&quot;:

&lt;i&gt;p130 ... we do not expect the centre to solve our problems . we expect it to make it possible for us to resolve them ourselves . we are polygamists. rather than put all our hopes in the Belfast or London baskets, we look for opportunities and partnerships with an entire harem of centres
p131 ... in a polycentric world, promiscuity is an advantage&lt;/i&gt;

Ironically, his three-stranded analysis failed to complement his post-nationalist/regionalist concepts outlined above.

Variety is the spice of life and the archipelago dish has many distinctive flavours. Pass on the salt ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, the literary folks are slowly catching up with the slowly evolving political archipelago as outlined in <a href="http://www.nio.gov.uk/agreement.pdf">Strand Three of the 1998 Agreement</a>. [pdf file]</p>
<p>Hows about a little sample from the literary world of St John of Hume in his &#8220;Personal Views&#8221;:</p>
<p><i>p130 &#8230; we do not expect the centre to solve our problems . we expect it to make it possible for us to resolve them ourselves . we are polygamists. rather than put all our hopes in the Belfast or London baskets, we look for opportunities and partnerships with an entire harem of centres<br />
p131 &#8230; in a polycentric world, promiscuity is an advantage</i></p>
<p>Ironically, his three-stranded analysis failed to complement his post-nationalist/regionalist concepts outlined above.</p>
<p>Variety is the spice of life and the archipelago dish has many distinctive flavours. Pass on the salt &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Garibaldy</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/10/28/archipelagic-in-thought-and-letter/comment-page-2/#comment-183750</link>
		<dc:creator>Garibaldy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-183750</guid>
		<description>I reject the terms of your question Harry. You speak of Soviet imperialism but neglect to mention the capitalist imperialism which continues to starve millions and leave around a billion in life threatening poverty. Never mind the various imperialist military adventures, repressive capitalist governments etc. Our lifestyles cannot be separated from the exploitation of other areas of the world (or of people within western democracies for that matter).

So what I will say is that I think a socialist world would be fairer and more equitable than the one we have today. I am also happy to acknowledge the many mistakes made by the Soviets. But equally I am happy to laud their many achievements.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I reject the terms of your question Harry. You speak of Soviet imperialism but neglect to mention the capitalist imperialism which continues to starve millions and leave around a billion in life threatening poverty. Never mind the various imperialist military adventures, repressive capitalist governments etc. Our lifestyles cannot be separated from the exploitation of other areas of the world (or of people within western democracies for that matter).</p>
<p>So what I will say is that I think a socialist world would be fairer and more equitable than the one we have today. I am also happy to acknowledge the many mistakes made by the Soviets. But equally I am happy to laud their many achievements.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry Flashman</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/10/28/archipelagic-in-thought-and-letter/comment-page-2/#comment-183747</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Flashman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-183747</guid>
		<description>Garibaldy, you clearly are convinced that Soviet enslavement was a great thing for the peoples of eastern and central Europe and that it was something that the peoples of those imprisoned nations desired for themselves. This is, I am afraid, a stunning example of the cognitive dissonance to which I refer above.

Can I ask you one simple question, a yes or no wil suffice; in the struggle between Marxist imperialism  of the Soviet variety and liberal democracy of the western European variety, which came to an end with the tearing down of the Berlin Wall, do you believe the right side won?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Garibaldy, you clearly are convinced that Soviet enslavement was a great thing for the peoples of eastern and central Europe and that it was something that the peoples of those imprisoned nations desired for themselves. This is, I am afraid, a stunning example of the cognitive dissonance to which I refer above.</p>
<p>Can I ask you one simple question, a yes or no wil suffice; in the struggle between Marxist imperialism  of the Soviet variety and liberal democracy of the western European variety, which came to an end with the tearing down of the Berlin Wall, do you believe the right side won?</p>
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		<title>By: Garibaldy</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/10/28/archipelagic-in-thought-and-letter/comment-page-2/#comment-183742</link>
		<dc:creator>Garibaldy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-183742</guid>
		<description>There were unity governments in place that were appointed not elected.
As for Hungary, yes I do believe there was a lot of fascist involvement in 1956. There is a lot of evidence for it. The rest of the stuff is not relevant to the debate about the creation of the socialist states, not their collapse.

Let&#039;s be clear about something. Hitler&#039;s willing excecutioners were not just German. Huge segments of the population in all those countries were incredibly hate-filled, anti-semetic and right-wing. They were far from democrats. These were not stable &quot;normal&quot; circumstances, and the creation of the states must be seen in those terms. So if we want to look at things as historians we must look at them in that context.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There were unity governments in place that were appointed not elected.<br />
As for Hungary, yes I do believe there was a lot of fascist involvement in 1956. There is a lot of evidence for it. The rest of the stuff is not relevant to the debate about the creation of the socialist states, not their collapse.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s be clear about something. Hitler&#8217;s willing excecutioners were not just German. Huge segments of the population in all those countries were incredibly hate-filled, anti-semetic and right-wing. They were far from democrats. These were not stable &#8220;normal&#8221; circumstances, and the creation of the states must be seen in those terms. So if we want to look at things as historians we must look at them in that context.</p>
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