Archipelagic in thought and letter
Some archelagic poets and writers were at a convocation, a ‘gathering of voices’, in the Bodleian Library, Oxford, on 9th October to celebrate the launch of Clutag Press’ first volume of the literary magazine Archipelago. The Library also chose the occasion to launch their first series of BODcasts and because they did you can listen to what was said by all the speakers there. Among those speakers was Seamus Heaney – BODcast available directly here [mp3 file] – who quoted a wise man, fellow poet Czeslaw Milosz.
“What is articulated, strengthens. What is not articulated tends towards the non-being.”
Still not quite convinced of sufficient cultural cohesion to justify a geographic identity as an archipelago….anyone want to start a poem ?
Dewi
It’s neither the topic of the post, the magazine, nor the speakers – who employ a variety of languages.
But I will point back to a couple of earlier posts.
I know – Peter – but I listened to all the stuff and not at all convinced. McNeillie’s meteorolical focus quite bizarre – myself feel much more connected to Basques, Catalans and other forgotten people than some constructed archipalegic cultural identity. But hell each to his own.
The utter arrogance, the self-congratulation, the self-appreciation:
Couldn’t make it more stark how seperate from reality they are
Long arms are needed to pat your own back.
The thread on Celtic identity you refer to Pete was fascinating – thank you.
“myself feel much more connected to Basques, Catalans and other forgotten people than some constructed archipalegic cultural identity.”
Telling, Dewi. But not necessarily in the manner intended.
Each to his own, indeed.
Pete – no need to be clever. If you find meaning and identity in a archipelagic sense enjoy it. For myself the dominance of the primary party will always be a fundamental issue and therefore choose to identify myself outside the Empire – but again each to his own. Nos Da.
His audience awaits,
A willing open bride.
Virginal, pretense with each delivery.
Misjudged length and misplaced laughs abide,
But he needs to look at rhythm
And the absence of a ride.
String theory
I came,
I saw,
I conkered.
I think you have something Frank…kept me out of bed for a while anyway ! Ireland’s got Talent ?
The world of poetry
One word?
When I could use twenty?
Shit!
*myself feel much more connected to Basques, Catalans and other forgotten people than some constructed archipalegic cultural identity.*
You know Dewi, I simply find that extremely hard to believe.
You’re a Welshman posting regularly on a blog about Northern Ireland yet you claim to have more affinity with minor linguistic groups in Spain, than with your fellow English speakers in these islands.
How many Basque and Catalan blogs do you comment on? I’d love to know.
No Catalan or Basque blogs – don’t speak either. And I live on these islands. I certainly feel affinity with those at the periphary of these islands but our whole history is dominated by an imperial English adventure that I really despise – and that’s not at all racist – it’s just not mine and hate the fact I left school knowing more about Alfred, Canute, Nelson et al than my country.s historical figures.
*an imperial English adventure that I really despise*
The legacy of which has bequeathed the world the most prosperous, educated, free, democratic and healthy societies on earth, yeah it’s a real bummer alright.
So you admit your original statement about feeling more affinity with Basques and Catalans than with your fellow English speakers on these islands was pseudo smug self delusional codswallop of much the same quality as the stuff in this arty farty magazine?
…..and stole their gold,diamonds and thansported them as slaves to work on sugar plantations ;- you should have gone to specksavers-they dont sell rose tinted glasses there
“Prosporous etc.”
Like three quarters of Africa do u mean? Or the Australia aborigines ?
Perhaps I should have been clearer. Of course I relate to the celtic nations – it’s that the Arcipelagic stuff is usally England / English + some token other stuff – which correctly represents population of these islands and all well and good but not for me.
Ah yes, the richest, healthiest, safest, most democratic, best educated, most free, liberal societies in the world bar none all just happen to be products of the British Empire, take the chips off your shoulders boys, anti-Englishness is so last century.
By the way Dewi weren’t some of the most expansionist kings of England actually Welsh? And remind me what principality the boys singing “Men of Harlech” as they slaughterd the Zulus at Rourke’s Drift came from?
Completely off thread and mostly my fault:
A)No – Henry Tudor had some Welsh blood but his line soon assimilated
B) Ruling classes excellent at sending Celtic soldiers to slaughter and be slaughtered.
C) Empire’s record in Ireland.
Some of the most savage slaughter in Imperial history. The deliberate suppression of the langage.The, at best, tolerance of a famine that killed a million and halved the population.Killing Lord Mayors and innocents with impunity in in living memory. *nd after withdrawing from most of the island making the new state pay reparations.Wonderfully benign and benevolent.
Ah yes, terrible, those waxy moustache twirling, top hatted Englishmen evilly cackling as they sent off the poor benighted Celts to kill the savage foe.
Christ Dewi, grow up will ye? The Welsh, Scottish and Irish were up to their bloody armpits in the race for empire, in many cases (the Scots) they were well ahead of the English, stop trying to rewrite history mate. The Celts were in there big time and they loved it. Since 1979 it has suited the Celtic Fringe to pretend that the British Empire was nothing to do with them.
It’s as convincing as listening to Austrians telling you how they were the first victims of Adolf Hitler (an Austrian).
Harry – I am slightly tongue in cheek but can’t remember the referendum for the Anchluss betweeen Wales and England……….Scots well ahead of England ? Apart from the ill-fated Darien expedition can’t recall a single Scottish Colonial adventure.
Fundamental point is not any of that but that there’s a lot of them on this archipelago and that such an identity would by neccessity be English dominated.
What’s the significance of 1979 ? We lost that one…
Seamus Heaney worth a listen by the way. (Sorry Pete)
Ideology normally dictates which geographical entity is deemed the most appropriate for National identity – for me that’s contiguous landmass – easier to justify obviously for relatively small islands rather whole continents. Presumably, Taffs/Jockstraps not so keen on that one.
What happened to the unbelievable thread about the BNP the UVF the Orientals and the Marching Prods – did I dream it or had some band decided to parade through all the Chinese returants in South Belfast whilst sinigng pro-Japanese tunes?
Harry,
I suppose you would suggest that Africans were dead keen on slavery because some of the slave organisers were African.
Dewi,
Welsh imperialist adventures will soon be again in the spotlight with the world champions in town. An opportunity for the Welsh to apologose for glorying in the slaughter of the good guys with superior weapons whilst stealing their gold. Cywilydd.
*What happened to the unbelievable thread about the BNP the UVF the Orientals and the Marching Prods – did I dream it*
I was wondering about that too but I seem to recall one of the last posts warned that a very serious allegation had been made against someone incorrectly, instead of simply deleting the relevant post it would appear the entire thread was pulled, I hate when that happens.
*I suppose you would suggest that Africans were dead keen on slavery because some of the slave organisers were African.*
Actually all the slave organisers were African – except for the Arab ones.
The British Empire, however, was the first organisation in the entire history of mankind to send its forces to fight and die to end the appalling curse of slavery, something you wouldn’t realise if all you knew about the British Empire was the dreary bilge that was taught by the products of 1970′s polytechnic Marxist history departments.
Dewi, you know little about the role of Scottish bankers, soldiers, engineers, teachers, explorers, entrepreneurs, clergymen and chancers that expanded the frontiers of the British empire if all you know is the Darien expedition, I suggest you read a little more on the subject. As regards an Anschluss between England and Wales I suggest you google “Acts of Union, 1535-42″ to find out about it.
For your information in 1979, Margaret Thatcher was elected Prime Minister of the UK, and suddenly everyone started rewriting British history.
Pete, I would dearly love to check out the links but these people are scaring me. I will try again after the lot of you have gone to bed.
)
Dewi, you should be more generous. When I worked in London, I had occasion many times a day to reflect that few sentences in English could ever sound as lovely as a report of a traffic snarl on the M4 in Welsh.
Sammy – It’s like £50 a ticket for a humiliation..isn’t that reparations enough. Stanley Baker couldn’t sing anyway.
Harry – I know a little about Acts of Union – hardly a voluntary process now was it.
Do you think Thatcher’s election precipitated revisionism ? Not certain of the causal effect there to be honest.
As to Scottish bankers etc. don’t deny for one minute. My point was that pre union Scotland didn’t try much colonial expansion.
I am interested in the noble British Empire’s efforts to end the curse of slavery. Any particular war ? – seem to recall some illicit support to the Confederacy.
Susan
“Dewi, you should be more generous. When I worked in London, I had occasion many times a day to reflect that few sentences in English could ever sound as lovely as a report of a traffic snarl on the M4 in Welsh.”
I started it sorry.
“What is articulated, strengthens. What is not articulated tends towards the non-being.â€
What’s been articulated and strengthened for the last hundreds of years is the idea of a superior, noble, benevolent British Empite casting its kindly virtues to the ignorant natives anywhere they wanted.
What has not been articulated (even to our own people) is the hisory of the Celtic nations, both pre conquest and post. This magazine attempts to articulate some of that I suppose – but launched at the Bodleian etc etc – let’s do this stuff ourselves (alone ?)
*I am interested in the noble British Empire’s efforts to end the curse of slavery. Any particular war ?*
Seriously Dewi, you are unaware that the prime force responsible for ending the global slave trade in the nineteenth century (as well as piracy) was the Royal Navy? Do you think the slave traders just woke up some morning and decided to call it a day?
Man, you need to stop reading celtic twilight whingefests and actually read some real history;
*What’s been articulated and strengthened for the last hundreds of years is the idea of a superior, noble, benevolent British Empite casting its kindly virtues to the ignorant natives anywhere they wanted.*
I’m fairly certain that that version of history (which despite all the revisionism has actually got a germ of truth in it) hasn’t been taught in British schools for almost half a century, why do you pretend that it is still prevalent?
Dewi,
I agree prices are far too high. But I think the tide is turning for you boyz for the better – I expect Ireland to replace you towards the bottom of the 6N – if not this year then next – we simply dont have the players coming through.
Harry,
sorry but I thought your boyz organised the massive slave trade which lead to death and deportation of millions of africans and got filthy rich ( in the real sense of the words) on the back of it. The fact that abolition ( plus compensation for owners ) was introduced by a latter generation does not alter that fact. It was murderous, genodcidal and a very British form of trade – lets have a bit more contrition and a bit less boasting old chap. I have little time for Markist history and equally little for revisonist imperialist nonesense either.
“Seriously Dewi, you are unaware that the prime force responsible for ending the global slave trade in the nineteenth century (as well as piracy) was the Royal Navy”
Primary Motivation ? – yeah right
“Man, you need to stop reading celtic twilight whingefests and actually read some real history”
I do read real history – a lot of which has been to lost to peiople on these islands. On schools – I hope things are better but don’t find many school leavers with much knowledge of Merthyr Rising, Chartist March on Newport or even Glyndwr – that’s real history to me.
Of course the first European country to abolish slavery in the modern era was France under the Jacobins, supposedly evil and dictatorial, during the Revolution (I’m deliberately ignoring the question of whether feudalism made slaves of people or the tiny number of serfs still in France). Its restoration was part of Napoleon’s conservative social programme. Kudos to the C19th Brits for abolishing the trade, even if not in quite the glorious fashion Harry suggests.
As for the Empire as great, a lot more of that in schools than people think, never mind popular culture with idiots like Niall Ferguson. Can’t believe people still like to ignore its blindspots. And I think Harry’s line about the stable, freest etc countries is highly disingenuous.
A little more considered:
The magazine contains a work (translated into English by the author) by Angharad Price who won the literature medal at the St David’s National Eisteddfod in 2002.
Her favourite line of poetry (from the BBC)
A dyma ni’n dod at y mynydd,
Pawb efo’i loes yn ei law.
Which means
And here we come to the mountain, all with their pain in their hands.
Now – whatever anybody thinks of that (and I’m neutral) – I really can’t see it appealing to the mass Archipelagogic audience. Think it best for all that England re-invents itself and we settle ourselves outside the Empire.. Now Pete – that’s on topic !
*It was murderous, genodcidal and a very British form of trade*
Fascinating, so the trade in slaves which goes back into the very beginning of mankind, which was mentioned in the Bible and which existed among the classic Greeks and Romans, which was carried out by Irish pirates, Barbary corsairs, Arab merchants, Spanish dukes, Russian princes, French plutocrats, Chinese emperors, Japanese warriors, Belgian aristocrats, African kings and which was still legal in Saudi Arabia until the 1960′s and which truth be told still exists to this very day in several countries in Africa is all the fault of the one actual country that brought an end to the slave trade?
Christ help us but some people can’t get past their anglophobia even on such a simple fact. The United Kingdom spent more money abolishing the slave trade in the nineteenth century than it made profits from the trade in the previous centuries.
Get over yourselves lads.
*Can’t believe people still like to ignore its blindspots.*
Yeah because the bad parts about the history of the British Empire never get discussed in our schools, universities, newspapers, books, or in the media now do they?
I mean it’s all gung-ho Imperial jingoism in the comments pages of the Guardian and on the BBC isn’t it?
Harry,
Given that the Guardian is far from the biggest-selling paper and loses money, and that the biggest selling papers are the jinogistic ones, I don’t really see that as a valid argument. Especially when the most recent major tv show and book on Empire was pro-imperial. The BBC is a vast organisation, and carries both pro- and anti-imperial shows.
Dewi
“Now – whatever anybody thinks of that (and I’m neutral) – I really can’t see it appealing to the mass Archipelagogic audience.”
Dewi, there is no mass archipelagogic audience, and there never will be, so they might as well suit themselves, you know?
You need to hold on to more confidence in the beauty and the resonance of the Welsh language.The fragment in your post last night is beautiful, beautiful enough to make me realise it’s years, years — years — since I really listened to spoken Welsh. On a random thought I entered “Welsh poetry” in YouTube, and listened to some of Daffyd Iwan — you can’t tell me he wouldn’t hold a poetry audience in Belfast or Galway in the palms of his hands because he would, he would.
Welsh is extraordinary. Set it to music and more people will find it, even if we’ve no idea why it resonates. Don’t worry about the inevitable few who will rip even an honest attempt — cynics have to eat too, and there’s enough psuedo pan-Celtic twilight ephemera out there to justify a little of their cynicism.
Pete, I only had a chance just now to listen to one of the speeches, and of course I listened to Seamus Heaney because why wouldn’t you? Very entertaining and the last line of his prose poem, or whatever he decides to call it, could be the epitaph for many, yeah?
“He spends his days just walking
round the island/workin’ the head”
It could be indeed, susan.
Also of note, in relation to that particular prose poem, is Seamus Heaney’s own writer’s room – as recorded in the Guardian recently
“The desk surface is a slab of board on two filing cabinets..”
Harry Flashman,
go the extra sixteenth of an inch, and tell us all about the white man’s burden.
páid
It’s sad to see someone try and apply childish storybook ‘goddies and baddies’ viewpoints to actual history.
Please stop.
Thanks for the link, Pete. I know you were only explicating the meaning of that particular poem, and did not deliberately mean to increase my despair over the chaos of my own work space.
susan
I’ve been telling myself that he had plenty of warning that the photographer was coming round..
Elliot – Harry started it LOL (or perhaps not…)
Susan – nice post – “Dewi, there is no mass archipelagogic audience, and there never will be, so they might as well suit themselves, you know?”
I think that was my point – but expressed ever so eloquently and without the digression into imperial bloodbaths for which I apologise.
No need to apologise, Dewi. We’ve all been there.
)
Pete, I told myself that. I also told myself the piece mentioned hiring a professional to “redesign” the space. I now blame the annexation of my archipelagic mind for the fact that my work surface looks like a swamp.
Archipelagic is a racket – to catch
The unwary and tragic.
From Dublin town with a weary frown.
The trams just look so majic.
Not quite cynghanedd or a limerick but a bit brain dead. The trams just look like TGVs and go 10 miles an hour – cool though.
lol, Dewi. You’ve gone over my head now, and the jedi nun in the blue aviators isn’t helping:
http://www.cynghanedd.com/annedd/
They have weekly Cynghanedd lessons in Bangor cricket club every week through autumn and winter – that is so wonderful – thanks Susan I certainly need some teaching….. (why on earth do they play cricket though…..)
Dewi, I am certifiably dyslexic on the subject of why anyone plays cricket, or even how. Everything goes misty on me as soon as the subject comes up. But I will look for you in upcoming issues of Archipelago, all the same.
Elliot,
explain your comment, please.
páid
I don’t beleive it is very productive to try to trivialise any good done by any party, even one as fundamentally vile as the British Empire.
Take the United States as it stands for instance, the Cold War was riddled with CIA backed coups against democratically elected governments and its current behaviour shows it’s only gotten worse, but it was still instrumental in liberating Western Europe from Nazi occupation. A great deed even with a knowledge of many American misdeeds both before and after.
*CIA backed coups against democratically elected governments*
Off the top of my head I could name one at a very long stretch (the army in Chile would have taken over with or without the minor assistance of the CIA, it was pretty much a domestic Chilean affair despite the feverish imaginings of the “Pepsi-Cola” conspiracy theorists).
How many democratically elected governments were undermined by the KGB? Dozens and dozens I think.
It’s actually quite simple to spot the good guys and the bad guys in history, you generally just have to stop reading soppy left wing propaganda and read actual, you know, history.
Can you name some of these dozens of governments Harry?
And while you’re at it perhaps you can explain how it is that both Korea and Vietnam were kept divided against the wishes of their peoples by US interference, but of course in a democratic fashion.
All the former states of the Warsaw Pact were undemocratically overthrown by Soviet Communist parties and hijacked into the Soviet Empire. The Soviet Union spent the entire Cold War seeking to undermine and destabilise the democratic governments of the West, as well as many states in Asia, Africa and South Amereica. Christ, Garibaldy do ye really need such basic history lessons?
Southern Vietnam fought a long hard war against the North and millions of their citizens were murdered or enslaved as prisoners of re-education camps by the Northern aggressors or forced to flee as refugees huddled in leaking boats.
If South Korea wants to become part of Kim Jung Il’s looney tune state no-one is stopping them, here’s the thing though, they don’t want to.
Yawn, once again simple historical facts defeat emotive leftist propaganda.
Next?