“If the IRA were corporately involved in this murder..”
From the Irish Times front page report today, on the investigation into the death of Paul Quinn in County Monaghan
Gardaí believe that a man beaten to death in County Monaghan at the weekend was attacked because he had recently been involved in altercations with a known republican in south Armagh and the son of another republican figure from the area.
And, with former Irish Labour Party Leader, Pat Rabitte, warning of a major political fallout if there was any involvement by the Provisionals, it’s worth looking at a couple of statements in particular. Firstly from DUP’s Jeffrey Donaldson in this BBC report
“If the IRA were corporately involved in this murder, that may mean that the executive is finished in its current form.” [added emphasis]
The other quote to note is in the same report, and comes from the NI Regional Development minister, Sinn Féin’s Conor Murphy.
In contrast to his statement noted yesterday, and repeated in this Irish Times report [subs req], that
“I do not believe that there is any republican involvement in this murder.”
The latest statement from Conor Murphy is
“I am confident that republicans who have been assiduously working on that project – to try and develop a proper and accountable policing service – are not engaged in any other type of activity whatsoever.” [added emphasis]
Meanwhile independent MEP, Jim Allister, has also commented [subs req]
Independent unionist MEP Jim Allister, who resigned from the DUP in March over the decision to share power at Stormont with Sinn Féin, said the Quinn family’s claims about IRA involvement could not be overlooked.
“The suggestion that the IRA killed Paul Quinn requires absolute clarity from the PSNI and the gardaí, with no phoney distinctions being made between ‘organisational acts’ and actions by individual IRA members,” he said.
And from that same report, the SDLP’s Dominic Bradley, MLA, is reported to have linked two other assaults in the area to the Provisional IRA
“The community in Monaghan and south Armagh must work with An Garda Síochána and the PSNI by giving them the information they need to bring these people to justice,” he said.
He believed that the dead man had been threatened by local Provisionals in south Armagh and that the IRA had also been responsible for severe beatings of at least two other individuals in the area.
Adds Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams, on Radio Ulster’s TalkBack today stated
“It will not emerge that the IRA was involved.”
Asked earlier in the interview why he was so certain that no republicans were involved “in any way whatsoever” he replied
“I have talked to one or two people in the area.”
And from the BBC’s Mark Devenport’s blog
Conor Murphy says he’s convinced republicans weren’t involved. But his former colleague Jim McAllister says Conor should have talked to Mr Quinn’s family before sounding so certain.
On the one hand the DUP will argue that they must await the evidence before jumping to conclusions. On the other, those of us who covered the murders perpetrated by IRA fronts like “Direct Action Against Drugs” know how reluctant the authorities can be in declaring clearly that the IRA sanctioned a particular crime when it is not politically expedient to make such a statement.
I’m surprised that no one has commented on the fact that the Quinn family seem to be represented by leading republican dissident and former SF Assembly member Jim McAllister. It would obviously suit McAllister’s agenda if this was pinned on the IRA, but given the McAllister connection could it be possible this young man was also a dissident and the beating could be related to tensions within those groups?
So why don’t we wait for the inevitable police investigation that Sinn Féin will inevitably ask it’s supporters to co-operate with?
Meanwhile below this posting there will be hundreds of people who haven’t a clue what happened jumping to the usual conclusions, because it suits their particular political agenda to do so.
Blah blah ad infinitum…
Meanwhile a man is beaten to death, his family accuse the IRA, and wee Jeffrey talks about “corporate” reponsibility as if the Provos held a boardroom meeting to discuss this. Pathetic stuff from Chuckle Brother central but I am sure it will be lapped up by all the usual apoologists for terrorists in government.
Just a thought: “I’m surprised that no one has commented on the fact that the Quinn family seem to be represented by leading republican dissident and former SF Assembly member Jim McAllister. It would obviously suit McAllister’s agenda if this was pinned on the IRA, but given the McAllister connection could it be possible this young man was also a dissident and the beating could be related to tensions within those groups? ”
Fair point. I think that the main significance of the Jim McAllister involvement is that he knows the SA provo scene very well. If he says that there was provo involvement (I don’t know if he has actually said that) people will take the view that he knows what he’s talking about.
Daithi
That was prescient of you!
This will probably be the first serious test of whether or not all republicans have accepted the primacy of the state, through the PSNI, for law and order.
Much will depend on the willingness of members of the public giving information needed to bring the brutes responsible for this to justice, whoever they are.
Given that up to 15 people were involved, it would be very hard to keep all of the identities secret.
From the Belfast Telegraph:
Garda believe the attack had not been officially sanctioned by the former leadership of the Provisional IRA in the south Armagh region.
But they do believe the killers are all former members of the Provisionals, who had set out to demonstrate that they still wield considerable power in the area.
David
Off to your well informed opinion again
With about everything but the Army Council structure removed is it really any doubt that people who are involved in criminality kill each other
Daithi0,
You don’t know what happened either but you still commented, a young man was murdered and straight away the republican PR maching come out in force…disgusting…
My God Sean,
You will defend them no matter what won’t you son??
From BBC News:
Mr Murphy said his party had been encouraging people in south Armagh to work with the PSNI.
“We have made a very clear statement that that is the way forward in dealing with these things.”
This is not exactly the same as calling on people to give any information they have about this particular heinous act to the PSNI.
I think the DFM better step up to the plate.
joeCanuck,
Thats wishfull thinking mate, with people like Sean and Daithi0 around they would probably think it was a good thing that happened to the young man..just another criminal you see.
This brutal murder was just plain thuggery. Peanut brained bully boys at it again.
McAllister was on Pat Kenny this morning discussing the incident. He said it was revenge for about 2 previous altercations between the victim and a relative of republicans.
Jim McAllister seems to know plenty about this. Why doesn’t he go to the police with any information he has rather than throwing about all this speculation on the media?
This was a brutal murder – plain and simple – by a gang of thugs and criminals.
rob
My comments were reserved for the whatabouters here who are quick to point the finger, not because they know anything, they know what the rest of us do, and they’ve learned what little they know from tittle-tattle in papers written by hacks that don’t know either!
I didn’t comment about the sad death of a young man whose family I sympathise with at this time, and furthermore I won’t comment, this terrible incident is clearly a matter for the police.
Thankfully the days of internment without trial and kangaroo courts are behind us. Sadly it won’t stop people throwing shit, hoping some of it sticks.
How naive or downright stupid of Gerry Adams on Talk Back to rule out categorically the possibility that the people who did this were Republicans.
Yet more Shinner arrogance that expects people to take Gerry’s word as gospel… maybe once…, but not anymore.
But Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams today denied republican involvement and called on anyone with information about the murder to make it available to police on both sides of the Border.
He said he was deeply shocked and claimed the death was linked to fuel smuggling involving criminals. Mr Adams added: “The criminals responsible for this dreadful killing must be brought to justice. I do not believe that there was any republican involvement in this murder.”
Thankfully that’s a very clear call to go to the PSNI.
Daithi0,
If you weren’t going to comment on this murder why did you try and make out that it would be used for political reasons by ohter commenters, and why did you comment on internment, to be honest I wish it would be brought back, just for people who murdered this young man, what do you think?
maybe republicans believe if they go back to violence they will get the 1.2 million pound from Margaret Richie!
Rob, I think the death of this young man is a matter for the police. If it was murder then justice should be done.
Now, if you want to discuss internment or anything else please feel free to e-mail me.
You are the one talking about the people who “murdered” that young man, so if you know the facts please either share them with us, or tell the PSNI.
Fair enough?
Joe
No matter how the BBC covered it, Conor Murphy’s call on the radio this morning was clear and unequivocal. He stated he condemned the murder and called on people to contact the Gardaà or PSNI with information about the crime.
We wont ever free ourselves from our past if we cannot stop associating brutal crimes with political or paramilitary associations. Treat them for what they are, and take a zero tolerance approach to organised crime and criminals.
Using this as another political tool to try and destabilise our government may be amusing to some, but devastating to those of us trying to live, work and survive here.
Daithi0,
Why did you type ‘murdered’, he was wasn’t he, or did he slip and hurt himself. The fact of the matter is, Republicans killed this young man and you are trying to take the responsibilety away from them by putting staw men up.
Thank’s for letting me know that Missfitz.
I think it was irresponsible for the BBC not to have reported that.
missfitz
WELL SAID !!
Just the same old story from our politicians. The Assembly Gravy Train has left the station and no one aboard wants to derail it!
After all we still await a statement from Papa Doc concerning his letter to the Heritage Lottery Fund about the Causeway Visitors Centre. Why are the other Parties not revelling in his obvious discomfort?
Gerry’s “very clear call” for Republicans to go to the PSNI convinces nobody…
It’s simply cynical political opportunism for the ever elusive Gerry to be seen to be saying the “right thing”…. Lets face it though, what does he know? He’s hardly “on-the-ground” is he?
convinces nobody
I take what he says at face value, Sean.
And, no, I am not a member of SF.
Missfitz,
If this murder was carried out by members of the PIRA then its a serious issue, no allegations of trying to undo the peace process will take attention away from this. When Robert McCartney was murdered we heard the same things.
Why do so many struggle to understand that IRA terrorists will kill? After all, there is a bloody trail left across the decades proving their lack of respect for human life. The reality which so many shy away from is that the IRA has killed in the past, it continued to kill even as Adams proclaimed “the guns are silent” and it will kepp killing since that is what it does.
The decision for the DUP is whether they have sufficient morality to abandon power-sharing with the IRA. I believe they will not do this as they have their snouts will and truly plunged into the trough at Stormont. For Donaldson to talk of IRA “corporate” responsibility is truly surreal and evidence just how corrupting this process is. Touch it and you can’t let go.
So this is the stable situation into which Fianna Fáil would have us believe they are about to step?
I think not.
DaithiO: “Thankfully the days of… kangaroo courts are behind us.”
You’d have thought so, but then have you not been following the fall out from Thrusday’s Executive meeting?
SF top brass may now be wishing they hadn’t opposed Margaret Ritchie the way they did.
This poor family will be coming under intolerable pressure from all quarters – here’s hoping they are given some space for their grief.
Posted by Harry on Oct 22, 2007 @ 01:41 PM
So this is the stable situation into which Fianna Fáil would have us believe they are about to step?
I think not.
I believe this happened in Monaghan? FF are already in it, whether they like it or not.
It’s best to pretend that PSF/PIRA weren’t responsible for this murder. If folks don’t pretend, then they accept that it is okay for a murder gang run your state – and Thomas Murphy is the boss of the Army Council, along with being one of the UK’s richest godfathers in organised crime, and the Army Council is the direct boss of your Deputy First Minister. As Ms Fitz de facto pointed out, these scumbags will revert to violent form if you use a rolled up newspaper to smack their snouts away the state’s pig trough. So stay on your bended knees, keep voting for them, keep the trough filled up, and they’ll only kill a few of you at a time whenever you threaten their vast financial interests. Appeasement is the new black.
My God Sean,
You will defend them no matter what won’t you son??
Posted by rob on Oct 22, 2007 @ 12:02 PM
Defend them from what? The right not to be convicted on heresay and personal opinion? Yes absolutely its what justice is really all about you know or should we return to the good old days when the accusation was enough to ensure conviction?
Dubliner,
Well said.
“Defend them from what? The right not to be convicted on heresay and personal opinion? Yes absolutely its what justice is really all about you know or should we return to the good old days when the accusation was enough to ensure conviction?”
Nice to see you’re calling for justice Sean, beats a meathook, cattle-prod, or even an iron bar in South Armagh any day of the week doesnt it……….oh hold on!
Bloody hell!!!
Was I the only one laughing at Seans comments, I think Cromwell has summed it up nicely.
Oh so just because it happened in South Armagh it has to be ordered from the highest echelons of Storomont. So the riots in Carickfergus… that order come out of the office of the first minister?
You people are sad to say the least and its us who should be laughing
Sean – “You people are sad to say the least and it’s us who should be laughing”
Who? Canadians???
“For Donaldson to talk of IRA “corporate†responsibility is truly surreal and evidence just how corrupting this process is. Touch it and you can’t let go.”
David is absolutely correct here and whilst he may not agree with me, republican’s are infected as well as unionists. It is as if the norths politicos are all on group speak, normally reasonable rational human beings start blathering like imbeciles about ‘corporate responsibility’ as if what occurred was not a group of hoods wielding iron bars but some sort of industrial accident.
Oh so just because it happened in South Armagh it has to be ordered from the highest echelons of Storomont. So the riots in Carickfergus… that order come out of the office of the first minister?
You people are sad to say the least and its us who should be laughing
No Sean, as usual we’re laughing at you, it did’nt happen in South Armagh, it happened in County Monaghan.
Maybe you should acquaint yourself with the facts before you launch into one of your usual ill advised propaganda missions.(from canada!!!)
ahh but it was you who mentioned South Armagh crumby
I hope that the family get justice and the killers get life.If it is subsequently proven that the provos did it ,it will be denied by everyone in the republican movement as securocrats trying to destabilise the process,or that it was individuals acting without sanction,just like the Robert McCartney case.The chuckle brothers will think of something to stop the whole house of cards from collapsing.Knowing roblnsons infatuation with minutiae they will try to spin it out a la cti
I simply don’t see why a representative government elected by the most overwhelming majority of ordinary, non-violent people should in any sense be jeopardised by the thuggery of a few has-beens – outside the jurisdiction of the NI Courts and the PSNI.
Those are the people who, like most here, have a genuine horror of this situation and this is something which SF can and have addressed through the utterly unequivocal plea for those who know about this heinous act to go to the Gardai or PSNI.
Those with a faux horror it must be remembered have a different agenda – which is the espousal of hatred and the detestation of a power-sharing government because and only because they don’t want a Fenian about the place. They don’t give a flying f*ck about the Quinn family.
Those republicans that bludgeoned Paul Quinn to death are the people that “don’t give a flying f*ck about the Quinn family” – just like they didn’t give the same about thousands of others, equally brutally murdered over the years.
I wonder why Sinn Fein has found itself unable to provide the police with information on the identity of those who planned the La Mon atrocity, or perhaps those who authorised the Claudy bombings? I wonder why there are still some fools about the place who fail to comprehend that sharing power with terrorists remains a very foolish immoral and ultimately futile accommodation.
Before I start this post let be put my feelings on this murder in the most unambiguous language possible.
This was an appalling act of cowardly thuggish criminality and anyone with any knowledge of those responsible should immediately make that knowledge known to the appropriate police services in order that ,hopefully, the peretrators face the full rigors of the law.
Is that clear enough for all?, good because no doubt I’m going to be accused of an excuser, denier etc in the wake of this hypothesis.
The family have said that the IRA were responsible and the usual suspects have come on to vent their spleen, this leaves me with two questions.
1 The usual suspects have stated that because the family have said that the IRA were involved then it must be. I’ll accept that for arguments sake but the opposite corollary would then suggest that if the family didn’t suggest it then there would have been no IRA involvement. If that’s the case then why do the usual suspects insist that the IRA murdered Dennis Donaldson in the absence of absolutely no evidence to suggest that it did?.
2. IF the IRA were involved in this murder would it be sufficient to explain away the doubts by suggesting that the murder “wasn’t institutionalised” or that IRA members were involved but that it was “only afewbad apples”?
Just wondering, sauce for the goose and all that.
I hope that the murderers of this young lad go to prision for a very long time.
Nothing about these comments is original or particularly enthusing. The reality is simple. Sectarian/national identity politics are disingeneous. You have to fall into an Orange/Green line.
We will all be in here 4 a long time to come if we don’t build a non-sectarian alternative. It is coceptually that simple
Dubliner:
If folks don’t pretend, then they accept that it is okay for a murder gang run your state
A murder gang ran the Irish state. Another murder gang opposed that state, and what’s more, their political descendents still run the current iteration of it.
~75% of the votes in Northern Ireland go to people who either have a paramilitary wing, or who maintain a working relationship with paramilitary-linked individuals. As Paisley said to the police officers at Drumcree, “don’t come running to me when they burn you out of your houses”.
Is it a democracy when ~75% of the votes are discarded on the basis that the candidates aren’t sufficiently democratic ?
UFB,
I think the only way out of this is for the IRA to hand the individuals concerned over to the police. Let’s face it, there’s more chance of the Paisley becoming a Free Presbyterian. If this crowd aren’t obeying the order to stand down, then they’re not going to come in quickly or quietly.
It’s interesting that David Vance has chosen the moment to show up. I’ve watched all the threads about UDA funding, and he wasn’t seen on any of them. I guess venting against the UDA isn’t so important.
I’ve seen the “Few bad apples” scenario expounded on David Vances blog before. Do you think that he or his readership would accept it in this case CS?.