UPRG project’s funding withdrawn
As anticipated. In the Assembly the NI Executive’s Social Development minister, Margaret Ritchie, has just announced the withdrawal of funding for the UPRG’s CTI project describing the project as “risk-prone from the start”. [Adds The minister's statement can be viewed here (RealPlayer file)] Update Finance minister, the DUP’s Peter Robinson, has just accused stated that [he believed] Margaret Ritchie had gone against the legal advice to the Executive, and was therefore in breach of the ministerial code of conduct, in making the announcement and the Speaker has suspended the sitting. Meanwhile in the BBC studio, SF’s Martina Anderson said that the Social Development minister “should have been more measured” and criticised the minister for not seeking “collective responsibility” from her Executive colleagues. A BBC report on the minister’s statement here. Further report here. Back in the chamber. The Speaker has quoted the head of civil service [Nigel Hamilton] as having “serious concerns” about the legality of the announcement, and he also referred to conversations with other members of the Executive who had similar serious concerns, but the Finance minister’s point of order is not accepted. During questions, Sinn Féin seem to be focused on critising the minister for continuing to fund the project after devolution – Although Jim Gibney didn’t agree with that criticism. Along with her own party members, the Alliance party has been the most vocal in support of the decision while the DUP are focusing on questioning the legality of the decision and the legal advice she was given – which is described as “privileged information” by the minister. The minister also responded to repeated questioning by SF – “I will not be funding the UDA now or in the future.” More below the foldUpdate Full statement from the Social Development minister via the SDLP website.
And now on the Executive’s website
More This clip from the BBC’s Stormont Live coverage caught the end of the statement, the point of order, and some of the subsequent in-studio conversation as noted above.
Concerned Loyalist – dry yer eyes. If you feel agrieved because Nationalist/Republican areas seem to have ‘everything they need’ – ask yourself why they appear to be doing so much better. It’s not like it was handed to them on a plate. People in these areas worked bloody hard to establish the voluntary and community groups etc that they have long before they got any help of any kind.
“Just as worrying is the fact she is harming communities like mine that need government funding to improve our areas”
Margaret Ritchie made it clear that communities in need would receive funding. Just this way, hopefully funding will be going into the hands of people who actually need it and can benefit. Not the bunch of thugs that are now crying about being hard done by.
CL-
“…Ritchie is potentially endangering a process of change within the Ulster Defence Association that could help cement the peace process.”
That is a complete cop-out. Margaret Ritchie owes the UDA nothing. It it wholly their responsibility to decommission. To argue that they will only do so if they get cash from the government is tantamount to blackmail, and such threats down the barrel of a gun cannot be tolerated in a democratic society. They should put their guns out of action because it is the right thing to do, not because they could get paid for it.
The UDA owes society decommissioning. We owe them nothing but anger and repulsion at the years of terror they inflicted upon men, women and children from both sides of the community.
“Just as worrying is the fact she is harming communities like mine that need government funding to improve our areas and to ensure parity of esteem with republican communities that seem to have everything they need when we drive by/visit someone in them…”
Wrong again. Did you listen to what Margaret said yesterday? She indicated that it is high on her list of priorities to address the needs of poor loyalist communities (much to the anger of SF in the chamber). However, there is no need for this to be done through the UDA. The Minister has visited many loyalist communities to see first-hand the problems they face, and is committed to helping them. There’s no votes in it for her in helping these people, but like her announcement yesterday, she is guided by conscience rather than partisan politicking and I don’t think that there is any doubt that she will see people right regardless of whether they live in loyalist or nationalist areas.
Concerned Loyalist – dry yer eyes. If you feel agrieved because Nationalist/Republican areas seem to have ‘everything they need’ – ask yourself why they appear to be doing so much better. It’s not like it was handed to them on a plate. People in these areas worked bloody hard to establish the voluntary and community groups etc that they have long before they got any help of any kind.
Posted by saiorse on Oct 17, 2007 @ 03:03 PM
We can’t even get a bloody football pitch laid in our area to replace the joke for a pitch we have at the moment, so that don’t give me that bollocks. We are being treated as second-class citizens and this is just another case in a long line of decisions that have shown there is no such thing as parity of esteem between Loyalist and Republican communities.
For example, Coleraine Borough Council are funding the local GAA Club, Owen Roe, even after receiving thousands of signatures from local people condemning this funding because of the Republican Parade at Casement Park, glorifying Republican terrorism. They can’t even fund or partly fund us for a Community Centre or a decent football pitch, yet they can fund a GAA Club that could fundraise the money for themselves like we had to do at my old Football Club…it’s a disgrace.
CL-
Instead of yapping, do something about it. If the politicians you elect aren’t fighting your corner properly, then elect new ones! Forget this crap about needing the UDA to get cash to re-lay football pitches. Power lies in the mandate- the UDA has no mandate, so you need to make sure that people who do, such as the DUP and UUP in your area, are doing the work you elected them to do. It’s called democracy.
“There’s no votes in it for her in helping these people, but like her announcement yesterday, she is guided by conscience”
Posted by El Matador on Oct 17, 2007 @ 03:03 PM
Are you for real? If you are I feel very sorry for you because you can’t honestly believe that, unless you’ve been completely hoodwinked by her rhetoric…
Sectarian
Demonisation
Loyalist
People
CL-
How many votes are there to be gained in South Down through pumping money into the Village?
“Power lies in the mandate- the UDA has no mandate, so you need to make sure that people who do, such as the DUP and UUP in your area, are doing the work you elected them to do. It’s called democracy.”
We’ve had DUP Councillors, MLA’s and even Gregory Campbell, our MP, was out at an 11th of July Day Of Culture and could see we were in need of recreational areas for the kids, yet we are still no further forward after THREE YEARS…
CL-
“We’ve had DUP Councillors, MLA’s and even Gregory Campbell, our MP, was out at an 11th of July Day Of Culture and could see we were in need of recreational areas for the kids, yet we are still no further forward after THREE YEARS…”
Exactly. So instead of sitting idly by while they engage in amateur dramatics at Stormont, perhaps you should be asking what they hell these unionist politicians are doing for you and your neightbours.
How many votes are there to be gained in South Down through pumping money into the Village?
Posted by El Matador on Oct 17, 2007 @ 03:17 PM
A good mate of mine who I was just speaking to yesterday lives on the Donegall Road. I’d love to hear his response when you ask him about funding and regeneration around his South Belfast home…it’s non-existent
Joy, CL wants to play a game…
Unreconstructed
Drug-Dealing
Alcoholics
See, that was easy… I’d do one for your other heroes, the UFF, but that’s far too easy a target.
Exactly. So instead of sitting idly by while they engage in amateur dramatics at Stormont, perhaps you should be asking what they hell these unionist politicians are doing for you and your neightbours.
Posted by El Matador on Oct 17, 2007 @ 03:23 PM
The only time I see David McClarty of the UUP is at Election Time – the Ulster Unionists are even worse than the DUP…why do you think Loyalist communities like mine in the East Londonderry constituency feel marginalised and disenfranchised? Our concerns are only ever met with the standard reply “We’ll look into that for you” when there are votes to be won, but, you’ll never guess what, nothing ever comes to fruition and we never see them again unless we specifically request a meeting…
Concerned Loyalist: “We’ve had DUP Councillors, MLA’s and even Gregory Campbell, our MP, was out at an 11th of July Day Of Culture and could see we were in need of recreational areas for the kids, yet we are still no further forward after THREE YEARS… ”
And what does that tell you?
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result…
Of course, the UDA’s problem lies in the seemingly apparent fact that the voters wouldn’t elect them dog-catcher, let alone counciller or MLA.
Concerned Loyalist: “why do you think Loyalist communities like mine in the East Londonderry constituency feel marginalised and disenfranchised? ”
Because you’re bloc voters for parties who don’t represent your interests.
Joy, CL wants to play a game…
Unreconstructed
Drug-Dealing
Alcoholics
See, that was easy… I’d do one for your other heroes, the UFF, but that’s far too easy a target.
Posted by Dread Cthulhu on Oct 17, 2007 @ 03:27 PM
My other heroes? The UFF are the military wing of the UDA, if you are going to attempt to play childish games you should perhaps know a little about the organisation you intend to poke fun at…
You get what you vote for. Simple as that.
Concerned Loyalist: “why do you think Loyalist communities like mine in the East Londonderry constituency feel marginalised and disenfranchised? “
Because you’re bloc voters for parties who don’t represent your interests.
Posted by Dread Cthulhu on Oct 17, 2007 @ 03:31 PM
Bloc voters? How do you mean? That we’ve all sat round and decided who we’re voting for?
You get what you vote for. Simple as that.
Posted by El Matador on Oct 17, 2007 @ 03:33 PM
We have to make do…
The PUP don’t stand for Assembly or Westminster seats in East Londonderry and I would never vote for them regardless, and the UPRG are a political think-tank and not a party. In otherwards, as a Protestant/Unionist/Loyalist I have 3 choices: 1) DUP (who I’ve voted for ever since being eligible), 2) UUP, or 3) The anti-DUP-we’re-stuck-in-the-dark-ages-under-Jim-Allister…
Do you understand our predicament?
CL: “My other heroes? The UFF are the military wing of the UDA, if you are going to attempt to play childish games you should perhaps know a little about the organisation you intend to poke fun at… ”
Same chuckleheads, different initials… or did that little detail escape you, CL? Different initial lead to different opportunites.
For a guy who is so ready to dish out the snide comments, you’re awfull thin-skinned when the favor is returned. Do you honestly believe that when you do it, it’s “commentary” and when its reutrned to you, it’s suddenly “childish games?”
You vote for parties who have no real incentive to aid you, you cheer-lead for a collection of thugs and drug-pushers and still you wonder why things go aglee…
The UDA don’t have the popular support Sinn Fein enjoy. The DUP would appear to understand that they don’t need to do anything for you to get your votes, so they take you for granted. Under the current system, were they interested in the lot of Loyalist neighborhoods, they could have claimed the Social Development portfolio — they had the earlier choice.
That’s a fair point you make and I do understand your predicament. However, that’s not of Margaret Ritchie’s making. Perhaps if people stopped voting for the DUP so strongly, they’d start to get the hint that they’re not as great as they seem to think.
Let’s face it the loyalist paramilitaries are the scum of the Earth and as Orde has said shouldn’t even be getting 50p. These drug dealing extortionists spent 30 years aping the IRA phrasebook, image and propaganda in order to fool people into thinking there was actually some independent structure behind them as opposed to being a bunch of mindless gangsters employed by the security services to do the dirty work. Now their paymasters have abandoned them the rest of us should move on without them. There is no need to have these people on board to “cement the peace process†as Concerned Loyalist states, because they are irrelevant to the peace process, always were, still are. They have no support, never had, never will.
It is quite funny though to watch Concerned Loyalist whine about parity of esteem between Loyalism and Republicanism, sorry pal but you’re deluded. There’s no such thing as a Loyalism or a Loyalist community – it was just a bit of smoke and mirrors and you fell for it. I love the crying about the football pitch as well. Perhaps you are too young to remember the ‘loyalist’ campaign for segregation in the H-Blocks? Well before they got scared of those big nasty IRA men and refused to leave their cells, their ‘campaign’ involved sneeking into football grounds in the middle of the night and digging up the pitches. Lol, loyalists – catch yerself on pal.
Perhaps if people stopped voting for the DUP so strongly, they’d start to get the hint that they’re not as great as they seem to think.
Posted by El Matador on Oct 17, 2007 @ 03:48 PM
There is no alternative for working-class Loyalism. We are more concerned now with the bread and butter issues of socio-economic regeneration (the Union is safe) but both the Ntaionalist and Unionist parties still seem more interested in political point-scoring than actually addressing the hopes and fears of the people they represent, who voted for the weasels and who got them paid…
Something tells me that the above “Outraged Loyalist” is playing a wee game of “Let’s pretend to be a Prod to give ‘em what’s for”…
CL: “We have to make do…”
Then “make do” and get on with it. When did whinging and trying to extort the govenment become “making do,” I wonder.
CL: “The PUP don’t stand for Assembly or Westminster seats in East Londonderry and I would never vote for them regardless, and the UPRG are a political think-tank and not a party.”
Throw in the fact that the last time the UDA ran candidates, they could barely get elected dog-catcher and you’ve got quite the problem.
CL: “In otherwards, as a Protestant/Unionist/Loyalist I have 3 choices: 1) DUP (who I’ve voted for ever since being eligible), 2) UUP, or 3) The anti-DUP-we’re-stuck-in-the-dark-ages-under-Jim-Allister…
Do you understand our predicament? ”
Yeah — you’re up the creek without a paddle.
That said, that your representatives don’t support or represent you is your problem.
Frankly, I’d prefer to see a strictly need-based approach that targetted the worst neighborhoods, religion / politics being a non-issue. But, y’see, that’s a common sense approach and utility and politics don’t have much truck with one another.
My other amusement is that all the UDA had to do is make a show of turning in a small lot of weapons, just the rusty odds and ends of decades of conflict, called it a “token of good faith” and Ritchie would have been on the back foot, especially given the fact that, outside of the Alliance party, the Ministers are a collection of bobble-head dolls on this issue.
Maybe it all went over your little head CL. I’m not a Prod, or a Catholic for that matter, but as I said ‘loyalism’ is a makey-upy concept anyway, so I’ve decided to become a loyalist as well. Only my loyalism just might not fit your Protestant, Unionist interpretation.
CL, ahh, concerned about bread and butter issues now that you don’t have everything (houses, jobs….)handed to you on a plate? Tough isn’t it? While you complain about how great things are in working-class nationalist/republican areas compared to your poor football-pitchless estate, you are forgetting that these people have been concerned about these issues for decades and have been working hard to improve their lot, in least in terms of parity and equality, but infrastructure, facilities, community, education etc. There’s still a long way to go in a lot of places but at least you don’t have anyone on here cryin about how no one will help them and there’s nothing that can be done to change the situation. Oh, bar handouts to terrorists (which we are supposed to believe is somehow supposed to improve the lives of ordinary people! Hilarious). Who are you trying to kid?
“both the Nationalist and Unionist parties still seem more interested in political point-scoring”
Depends on your point of view – it seems to me that both the SDLP and Alliance are fairly straight various individuals in the unionist parties do try. They are politicans however and the rule is ‘let the buyer beware’.
Personally I’m finding it very interesting to watch our politicans as they manouevre. They do have huge disagreements and a way has to be found for them to express those disagreements while still staying in the one Executive.
Ritchie is definitely scoring points at the moment, not least for forcing the DUP into the open about the UDA. Since Dodds won the race to give political support at Holy Cross no-one doubted where they stood but it is nice to have the evidence out where we can see it.
Concerned Loyalist: “There is no alternative for working-class Loyalism.”
*shrug*
Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again and expecting different outcomes from the same inputs. The DUP have made it clear that they do not value your votes, and yet you still vote for them.
Concerned Loyalist: “We are more concerned now with the bread and butter issues of socio-economic regeneration (the Union is safe) but both the Ntaionalist and Unionist parties still seem more interested in political point-scoring than actually addressing the hopes and fears of the people they represent, who voted for the weasels and who got them paid… ”
If, as you argue, the Union is safe, then this would be *PRECISELY* the time to explore other options, given the DUP’s unwillingness to actually represent your interests.
Right now, y’all don’t have a seat at the table — hell, you don’t even have a seat at the kiddies table, politically speaking. What have you got to lose? The Union is safe and the DUP don’t represent you — how is voting for independent candidates (with DUP transfers as early preferences as insurance) going to make anything worse? Who knows — get the right independents and you might get a seat at the table.
lib2016: “Ritchie is definitely scoring points at the moment, not least for forcing the DUP into the open about the UDA. Since Dodds won the race to give political support at Holy Cross no-one doubted where they stood but it is nice to have the evidence out where we can see it. ”
There is a difference between scoring point and making one. Ritchie did the latter, not the former. Her point, that the gov’t should not be in the business of handing out money to criminal organizations (or their sock-monkeys) is, admittedly, an uncomfortable one for some of the other parties… but whose problem is that?
CL
Can’t get anyone to represent your views? Then stand for election yourself.
What people can’t do, and Margaret Ritchie (God bless her for doing it) is making this clear, is hold democracy and law and order to ransom just because they have a few guns and a violent attitude.
If you can’t get elected, then tough. It’s how democracy works, ask Bob McCartney. As for the likes of you calling Jim Allister a dinosaur. I don’t think much of him, but at least he is a democrat. He isn’t fronting or cheerleading a collection of rabble trying to hold democracy to ransom. In fact, all told, for all his many faults Allister makes for a hundred of the clowns you have aligned yourself with.
Spare us the self pity act, nobody is buying it.
Urguhart, I’ve just pointed out that Ritchie’s current stance is now the opposite of that promoted by Hume. When did the SDLP position change? It would be good if it could be sustained and that it could be endorsed by the other parties – as well as by London and Dublin.
Also the street politics of the likes of Hume and Paisley did a lot to put our ‘tribes’ at each other’s throats.
Nevin
Your insinuation is rather vague (you took me to task too, earlier). Can you be more specific so that I can give you an answer?
Certainly an interesting day politically. Unsuprisingly I 100% support Mrs Ritchie’s decision. The fact of the matter is that funding is being pulled from UDA/UPRG fronted groups. This is a good thing. If the projects where ran anything like their other pet projects that I’m aware of such as Gae Lairn it would be a huge waste of money. There are hundreds of worth while projects in loyalist areas starved for funding. I worked in one such project that collapsed when Learn Direct pulled out of NI along with over 90% of our funding. Where was Peter Robinson then to fight the corner and threaten legal action?
I made several insinuations, Joe!!
I’ve put up the link about Hume’s argument that decommissioning was a ‘dangerous distraction’ whereas Ritchie’s Decommissioning must happen could have come from a Trimble speech. I’ve not yet seen an explanation for this apparent SDLP about turn.
The confrontational nature of the partisan street politics of the likes of Hume and Paisley was likely to lead eventually to sermons in stones and worse eg Derry riots inter-communal long precede the arrival of both Hume and Paisley.
OK Nevin.
The link you provide is actually to a speech by John Major which refers to Hume’s statement. Since we don’t have Hume’s statement in context, it’s hard to comment. But although decommissioning may have been a “distraction”, Hume was always clear that violence had to stop.
Similarly, Ritchie made it clear that decommissioning wasn’t the sole issue.
She also said “I will also want to see evidence that the UDA has moved irreversibly away from criminality and violence to positive and lawful community transformation.” Carrickfergus and Kilcooley blew any case the UDA might have had clean out of the water. And, it continued last weekend.
I am not a spokesman for the SDLP btw. Just an interested observer.
This has taken way too long. Debate necessitates time, but i don’t see why politicians in Northern Ireland need to make a spectacle out of every event.
Joe, Hume’s comment is fairly straightforward; he also argued for inclusion even when paramilitary violence was ongoing.
Arguing for violence to stop was rather disingenuous when you consider that Paisley-Hume street politics fomented it.
Nevin-
“Arguing for violence to stop was rather disingenuous when you consider that Paisley-Hume street politics fomented it.”
I’ll not argue much with your Paisley point, but on your claim that the actions of John Hume caused violence, well pardon my French, but you’re talking bollocks. You seem to be insinuating that because Hume and his associates who formed the SDLP dared to stand up against the elective unionist dictatorship and its bigoted excesses, they were somehow responsible for those who took up arms. Rubbish. Hume et al always preached the need for peaceful action and never did anything to encourage people to use the bullet or the bomb. To suggest anything else is nothing short of libel.
Perhaps you should look at the response of the unionist regime and its London-based backers to see why some people may have turned to the gun- internment, seriously assaulting peaceful protestors and slaughtering innocent people during a march do not make for peace. It doesn’t excuse the violence of the groups like the IRA, but it is a much more likely cause of it than John Hume and his street politics.
Well Nevin
If you are going to equate Hume’s public rabble rousing with Paisley’s, all I can say is that you must be very much younger than I am and/or else have a very selective memory.
Abdul-Rahim: “This has taken way too long. Debate necessitates time, but i don’t see why politicians in Northern Ireland need to make a spectacle out of every event. ”
Rule of thumb — the smaller the stakes, the larger the spectacle. Not sure why, but in bureaucracies, that is just the way it seems to go.
Surely Magraret Ritchie could spare a few quid for Samantha Duddy’s Funeral.
If not she has a stone where her heart should be
Me thinks that Abdul-Rahim is unfamilure with politicians in general. All politicians are out to grap headlines and sound bites. In NI there is just the opportunity for more of them due to the fickle nature of the electorate here.
Oops the above should have been posted as me, Pounder. Please be advised I am not sock puppeting.
Nevin: “Joe, Hume’s comment is fairly straightforward; he also argued for inclusion even when paramilitary violence was ongoing.”
And I expect that Margaret is probably happy enough to keep talking to them, making the case for decommissioning.
The difference, which I thought might have been pretty obvious, is that she doesn’t think the taxpayer should be bankrolling them.
Frankly (pardon the unintended pun) the UPRG called her bluff and ended up with egg on their faces. To slightly miss quote another prominant female politician “The lady wasn’t for turning”.
Urguhart, the taxpayer, directly and via international funding, has been bankrolling paramilitaries for years. The SDLP, in the form of Margaret Ritchie, has ‘flip-fopped’ – and caught lots of people out. Let’s hope no decent folks become victims of this dramatic, though welcome, change in direction.
PS I chanced upon a gathering on the day of Stormontgate where Farren, Empey, Parlon and a clutch of civil servants were wining and dining before doling out large wads of EU cash to inter alia paramilitary loons.
Pounder it wasnt a bluff the UDA drew in to a pat hand and lost their table stakes
Joe, I wasn’t equating their rabble-rousing; rather I was equating their street politics which predictably put the ‘rabble’ at each other’s throats. Hume should have known better; he’s studied history, including the history of Derry.
I’m a wee bit younger than Hume; I also had the privilege of going to Queens University in Belfast in the early 60s when relationships between the tribes had begun to thaw. Ray, QUB Chaplain and founder of the Corrymeela Community, was a great source of inspiration and it was natural that I should then have got involved in an inter-schools program in Coleraine – in addition to my day job.
I started dabbling in genealogy, history and politics in the 90s; I expanded Hume’s partisan three-strand analysis of our politics to include the Unionist aspiration in the early 90s.
Maybe we met sometime. It seems we’re Queens contemporaries.
We used to have great crack in the Glee Club sessions in the old Union at the foot of University Square.