‘Irish Out’ campaign reveals wider failure to grasp ‘new’ politics
So David McNarry’s attempt to out-do the DUP in terms of public contempt for the Irish language has come a cropper at the first hurdle, illustrating in the process to unionists and nationalists alike just why power-sharing mechanisms will be required at Stormont for a very long time to come. Yet, taken with the DUP’s pronouncements that the party will not support an Irish language Act, do the antics of McNarry illustrate a failure of some unionist politicians to grasp the quid pro quo consequences of the mutual veto era now upon us? Put simply, if unionists are to maintain the publicly stated position of being implacably opposed to such legislation, just what are they willing to sacrifice as a consequence?
Oilibhear
I see – yet again – you have avoided my question.
… He [Willowfield] seems to think it’s ok for Union citizens in the North of Ireland [sic] to have less [sic] rights than Union citizens in other parts of the UK. Isn’t that odd? Where will it stop? Or is it just Irish speakers he’s anxious to have less [sic] rights than other communities in the UK?
What rights do “Union citizens” in Scotland and England have that are not enjoyed by “Union citizens” in NI? I await the answer that you are obviously so reluctant to give.
“however I do think there can be a problem with bilingual signage fulfilling their primary function – direction finding – where placenames are very different in the two languages”
Of course where the names are “similar” in the two languages (in the contexts of these islands) the English version, almost always meaningless, is usually just wrong. Some work done here in just changing places names….Llanelly to Llanelli, Caernarvon to Caernarfon, Kilgerran to Cilgerran and finally the local authority known on signage bilingually as “Rhondda Cynon Tâf – Rhondda Cynon Taff” Finally dropped the final F.
(I know there are complications) but would Doire do for Derry (for nationalists that is)
Ah maybe drop the focus on the Irish language altogether in NI if it causes such a furore and purely focus on the speaking of English correctly.
A nice plummy English accent should be the order of the day instead of that thick Ulster brogue ……this, that, these, and those, that’s the way the ‘th’ goes, okey doke!
Dewi,
“(I know there are complications) but would Doire do for Derry (for nationalists that is)”
As an Irish speaker I think that
Londonderry / Doire
is a solution, but neither side will go for it. One SF politican I remember hearing saying it should be Derry and only Derry.
I will be accused of elitism here but nevertheless I don’t understand what the point is argueing over anglicised forms.
But I am in a majority of one here.
Yet again the left wing bully boys of Slugger have raised their ugly heads to bash anything Unionist.
I was suspended from this board for very little yet Reoublican bigots on this threads with little in the way of constructive, intelligent and pragmatic views have simply attacked me. While I may be a Unionist on a Republican board I do feel I and the small number of Unionists on this board should be afforded some protection.
Left wing?
“NOT ONE SINGLE SOUL IN ULSTER SPEAKS GAELIC AS THEIR FIRST LANGUAGEâ€
Concerned Loyalist, have you never heard of the Gaeltacht area of western Donegal? Oh silly you.
Posted by Paul on Oct 10, 2007 @ 10:51 AM”
Donegal is in the Free State/Banana Republic/Southern Ireland, however you wish to style it. The county comes under the jurisdiction and sovereign rule of a foreign government, based in Dublin at Leinster House. Modern-day Ulster comprises of the six counties of FATLAD; i.e. Fermanagh, Armagh, Tyrone, Londonderry, Antrim and Down. The ancient Ulster you refer to ceased to exist (other than in the minds of deluded Irish nationalism) after the partition of Ireland in 1921, when the state of Northern Ireland was formed. The four “provinces” became redundant and irrelevant at this point because one of the “provinces” had split, with 2/3 of it coming under British sovereign rule and the other 1/3 remaining under Dublin’s governance.
The word “province” means “a country, territory, district, or region”…how does an area of land with two hugely contrasting identities and two completely different, sovereign governments fit this criteria? The post-1921 Ulster, or Northern Ireland as it’s more widely known internationally, fits the criteria, but the 9-County Ulster you refer to mirrors your thinking – out of date and obselete…
“After all what we are talking about is a brain dead political movement, unionism, which is in far worse condition than the Irish language.”
Posted by Oliver Cromwell on Oct 10, 2007 @ 11:55 AM
I see you haven’t found a cure for your incessant verbal diarrhoea yet Mr Cromwell…you need a few spoonfuls of reality too to counter that rare strain of delusion you have!
Your statement is “brain dead”, not unionism. The majority of people in the UK, let alone Ulster, are unionist. Not even 1% of people in Ulster, let alone the UK, could have an erudite conversation in that caveman language of Gaelic – who’s in a stronger position then?
NOT ONE SINGLE SOUL IN ULSTER SPEAKS ULSTER-SCOTS AS THEIR FIRST LANGUAGE
Posted by Bob on Oct 10, 2007 @ 12:07 PM
Have you ever been to Ballymoney mate? lmfao
Your statement is “brain deadâ€, not unionism. The majority of people in the UK, let alone Ulster, are unionist
I think you better have another go at that one
Concerned Loyalist – any ideas on how to create a happy society ? – Christ I’m interested.
I’m sure Concerned Loyalist is away jerking off to pictures of UVF and UDA “shows of strength”.
“that caveman language of Gaelic ”
I think thats quite disgusting, but nonetheless typical of many’s a Unionist view of the Irish language.
I want to highlight that many of a unionist disposition have no objection whatsoever to the use and promotion of that language, any more than we would have to Mandarin or indeed, Polish. I know of more than a few non-Catholics who have an active interest in Irish music, culture – and while not being fluent – have a few phrases of use in south Donegal.
I recall David McNarry, once upon a time, appearing to be a gentler, more reasonable voice of Unionism (for an Orangeman). Those days appear to have slipped away.
Is it just me or does anyone else think Concerned Loyalist may have some difficulties in adapting to a reunited Irealnd when the time comes?
Concerned Loyalist,
“that caveman language of Gaelic “
Queen Elizabeth II, patron of An Comunn Gaidhealach, to whom you claim loyalty, clearly doesn’t agree.
http://www.ancomunn.co.uk/index_e.htm
Western Donegal is in Ulster.
NOT ONE SINGLE SOUL IN ULSTER SPEAKS GAELIC AS THEIR FIRST LANGUAGE
Either Concered Loyalist cannot read – many other threads have covered this – or does not want to open his mind, and horizons, to the truth.
As for the comments about Gaelic, The Prince of Wales even has a whole section of his website in the language!
http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/gaidhlig/
DEWI
I’d agree with Gael Gan Náire about the Doire/Londonderry signs. Neither Derry nor Londonderry mean anything.
What a link RG!
Wasn’t aware that Charlie has his website in both Scottish Gaelic and Welsh. By all rights he should also have it in Irish Gaelic too.
An Gháidhlig – Éire agus Alba – Abú
Here goes….so how about for starters changing “Belfast” to Béal Feirste. Probably cause a riot but as far as I can work out it’s just correcting the spelling. Now how on earth would that annoy anyone…….
Dewi,
O.K, spray can or paint brush. I think thats something we could learn from ye Brythonic lads.
DEWI
The Anti-Irish Creationists get annoyed easily you know. Béal Feirste is simply the correct form of Belfast. In an equal society both would be used, unfortunately not everybody believes in linguistic equality…
‘O.K, spray can or paint brush. I think thats something we could learn from ye Brythonic lads.’
Don’t forget the kerbstones while you’re at it… same thing really.
Don’t forget the kerbstones while you’re at it… same thing really.
Do people use national colours or flags everyday to communicate with their family, friends, colleagues? No.
Are the colours green, white and orange, or red, white and blue, used to speak, read, sing, curse, celebrate, commiserate, welcome, argue, help, discuss, direct, recommend, condone, condemn, work or love? No.
Language is. It’s a very different thing really.
Don’t forget the kerbstones while you’re at it… same thing really.
Do people use national colours or flags everyday to communicate with their family, friends, colleagues? No.
Are the colours green, white and orange, or red, white and blue, used to speak, read, sing, curse, celebrate, commiserate, welcome, argue, help, discuss, direct, recommend, condone, condemn, work or love? No.
Language is. It’s a very different thing really.
Posted by RG Cuan on Oct 12, 2007 @ 07:08 PM
You’ve just proved my point…PEOPLE DON’T SPEAK IN THIS LANGUAGE EVERY DAY TO COMMUNICATE WITH THEIR “family, friends, colleagues”.
It is taught at Catholic Maintained and so-called “Irish Language” schools as a means of intoducing, then indoctrinating young children with sinister Irish republican ideology – radicalizing them with a warped, one-sided viewpoint, creating more division within our broken society…
This language went out with the caveman and if the leaders of Irish nationalism were genuine about reconciliation with the PUL family, they’d stop using Gaelic as a “weapon” against us…
Christ, if I’m becoming more and more at ease with my “green” peers at the age of 22 (I have more Roman Catholic friends than at any previous time in my life), and speak up and object to sectarianism and bigotry coming from my own mates, then these old coffin-dodgers should be able to move on too!
I’m getting fed up with the farce that we call “politics” in general, but this Irish Language Act in particular just seems like a “zero-sum” issue where there can be no compromise and I can’t see things changing in the short-medium term with Ulster’s wider politics.
I can’t wait to go to the States for a year in 2009 to give my head some peace from this bigoted bollocks…
Cl – might want to stay there. Indeed 2007 sounds good.
Concerned Loyalist is an entertaining troll.
Let’s not remind him that most Irish speakers don’t live in Northern Ireland. Nor do most give a rat’s ass about NI, republicanism or unionists.
CONCERNED LOYALIST
You’ve just proved my point…
Really? Please do read again.
You obviously have no understanding of Irish language education – most schools are multi-denominational – and have never met an Irish speaker.
And DEWI has a good recommendation there about 2007.
NOT ONE SINGLE SOUL IN ULSTER SPEAKS ULSTER-SCOTS AS THEIR FIRST LANGUAGE
Posted by Bob on Oct 10, 2007 @ 12:07 PM
Have you ever been to Ballymoney mate? lmfao
Parity
Of
Oprresion
CONCERNED LOYALIST
You’ve just proved my point…
Really? Please do read again.
You obviously have no understanding of Irish language education – most schools are multi-denominational – and have never met an Irish speaker.
And DEWI has a good recommendation there about 2007.
Posted by RG Cuan on Oct 13, 2007 @ 04:24 PM
Ok. here’s your chance. Persuade me…
Why do we NEED an Irish Language Act in Ulster? If you can persuade me of the merits then, regardless of the fact I can’t stand the language, I’ll have to reluctantly accept that I’m in the wrong and the ILA should be implemented.
Welsh people can speak Welsh in their assembley
Scottish people can speak Gadhlig in their parliament
Northen Irish people should be able to speak northern Irish Gaelic in their assembley.