Currently in the Assembly….
The Minister for Education is currently in the middle of a tirade (wont work in Firefox, at least for me). Apparently opposition to the political use of the Irish language in Education is just “bias and prejudice”.
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Sounds like the Minister has it spot on then
political use of the Irish language in Education
Can’t get streaming media in work, can you explain the above? What is political in the use of the language in schools? Are some schools offering politics A-levels in Irish? Or is it your own prejudice Michael, in that all spoken Irish is political and not cultural?
“Apparently opposition to the political use of the Irish language in Education is just “bias and prejudice”"
sounds right to me
The DUPes would need to keep quiet about this seeing as they’re about to sell out on this issue to keep the grammar schools.
Sorry to point out the big white elephant in the middle of the room guys, but isn’t there a severe lack of demand for education in this type of medium? hence a perfectly justifiable level of opposition to tax payers money being spent on it? and no I don’t support the DUP or any unionist party for that matter.
The bias against Irish in the north by hard line unionist amazes me. This archaic bias against minority languages disappeared in Scotland and Wales in the 1970s. This anti Irish language prejudice is embarrassing at best and has elements of ‘our language is superior and so are we’ at worst.
“bias and prejudice”. Is that not overuse of the English language?
“Sorry to point out the big white elephant in the middle of the room guys, but isn’t there a severe lack of demand for education in this type of medium?”
No, quite the opposite.
Despite the scant detail in the thread, I’m assuming Shilliday is frothing at the prospect of 3 new Irish-medium schools being opened. Apparently the champions of ‘culturally-diverse Britain’ can’t get their heads round a bit if, well, cultural diversity. Glad Michael’s got time to watch live streams on the Assembley on a Monday afternoon though.
but isn’t there a severe lack of demand for education in this type of medium?hence a perfectly justifiable level of opposition to tax payers money being spent on it?
Free Agent
Hardly. The 3 schools in question have enrollment figures of between 105 and 140. The Minister is reacting to public demand. But as I’ve said before, if saving money is Unionist’s real passion then maybe they should ask the loyal institutions to cut down on a few hundred marches each year saving the taxpayer a few million.
but isn’t there a severe lack of demand for education in this type of medium?
No, obviously not what with the increasing numbers of Irish Language schools, and high demand for places.
The money aspect is a diversionary tactic. Shall we start dividing the amount of tax money spent by political allegiance? Do you think the twelfth (including bonfires, security considerations and rioting) is free? Nope, costs the UK millions each and every year.
Break that down, as we’re incredibly concerned about the way that money is spent in a fair way, 60 Million UK taxpayers spending fourty fortunes on the twelfth, an event designed for the needs of < 1 million people. How do you justify that?
Or perhaps we can just spend the insignificant amount of money without trying to balance the books between orange and green.
Overuse of English in an arguement about the Irish language? The Dark Lord of Irony is apeased by Irish politics once again.
Pounder, completley and utterly.
Pounder,
“Overuse of English in an arguement about the Irish language? The Dark Lord of Irony is apeased by Irish politics once again.”
Why would a person have to discuss funding for Irish-medium schools through the Irish language?
Maybe the Irish Republic should simply fund Irish-language education on an island-wide basis and be done with this charade.
Can’t blame the poor chap for his shite English. Probably he only speaks it as a second language.
*retires whistling*
Try re-reading what I said George [i]overuse of English in an arguement about the Irish Language[/i] it was a vein attempt by me to be funny and difuse the tension in this thread. Why do so many Unionists lack a sense of humor and an utter unappreciation of irony. You’d think people claiming the same nationality as the Monty Python team would understand the concept of irony. I feel my comments here are wasted sometimes.
Ziznivy
‘The DUPes would need to keep quiet about this seeing as they’re about to sell out on this issue to keep the grammar schools.’
Why so – academic selection can only be changed by cross community support
Monty Python? Nationalist? Oh.
“”Sorry to point out the big white elephant in the middle of the room guys, but isn’t there a severe lack of demand for education in this type of medium?â€
No, quite the opposite.”
Well there were several Irish language schools in the list of schools without enough pupils in them that caused some controversy earlier in the year.
Bob. The issue will effectively be put to bed and some form of academic selection can be decided upon. The selection issue is currently in limbo with nobody supporting the status quo. Concessions on Irish Language schools will be the price to pay to reach an agreement on selection.
And Pounder, what do you mean that unionists have no sense of humour or appreciation of irony? Did you not read Jeffery Donaldson’s recent coments regarding Folks on the Hill.
“… as a leading character on the show, I get a little bit of a dig…”
“…everyone who knows me for real knows that isn’t the real Jeffrey Donaldson at all…”
Put that in your ironic pipe and smoke it.
No worries about streaming. Opened link in Safari, then used Quick Time for the live stream. Though by now they are talking about something else.
To watch the video in Firefox you need the the Windows Media Player plug-in… https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:7
Ziznivy,
‘Concessions on Irish Language schools will be the price to pay to reach an agreement on selection’
For example?
It was certainly wasted on me pounder but thanks for the hammer to make me eventually see the light. Even if irony is wasted when you need hammers.
in the gaelic speaking communties of the Hebrides, one of the defenders of their gaelic heritage is “the wee Frees” – the Free Presbyterian church. why can we not be like that here and free a language older than the arguments we have from the predjudices of our arguments?
“why can we not be like that here and free a language older than the arguments we have from the predjudices of our arguments?”
Whilst people produce sentences like that in English, no time or money should be wasted on the Irish Language.
“For example?”
Not opposing the opening of new Irish Language schools whilst existing schools which there is a demand for remain underfunded. There will be Irish Language schools in every board area under this deal.
Zizivy,
‘Not opposing the opening of new Irish Language schools whilst existing schools which there is a demand for remain underfunded’.
Not a perfect example of the Queens English but anyway.
- IM schools are just started by by parents who then seek to attract as many pupils as possible in order to gain official recognition. The Council for IME does not have the authority to open a school.
So, there is very little that ‘opposition’ can do about it. Even a unionist education minister would be bound by the GFA and Education Act 1998, although they could certainely trow a spanner or two into the works.
ziznivy
“The DUPes would need to keep quiet about this seeing as they’re about to sell out on this issue to keep the grammar schools.”
I wouldn’t bank on it!
My reply was functional and typed in a hurry, but it certainly isn’t comparable to the monstrously clumsy , barely readable sentence Lorraine produced. The point is that spanners in the works will no longer be dropped, as it were. I’m not privy to exactly what this horse-trading will entail, but I’m informed that a deal involving Irish Language schools and academic selection is very much on the cards.
Ziznivy, how about sticking to the topic and stopping the grammar-nazism?
Does anyone have a link to that list of schools with low pupil numbers?
Fraggle, there is actually a serious point. Why not concentrate on delivering a high quality education in existing schools and concentratin on subjects pertinent to the real world, rather than pandering to a tiny minority of parents intent on playing political games with their children’s futures?
Ziznivy
‘The DUPes would need to keep quiet about this seeing as they’re about to sell out on this issue to keep the grammar schools.’
Why so – academic selection can only be changed by cross community support
Posted by bob wilson on Sep 24, 2007 @ 03:37 PM
Sinn Fein is just sitting on their hands waiting for the DUPers to force through the Giants Causeway Fiasco and then once the DUPers show that ministers CAN get their way with out going through Storomont and then we will see about how things settle out.
By the way academic selection IS dead! What remains to be seen is what will replace it
Because local bigots version of history has got in the way. For instance one edward carson was a hurler for trinity. I am not able to say if doring the peroid he plaid at croker but it is possible. this is not a plea for ogra SF to reclaim his statue by tapeing a hurley in that hand but a call for a bit of common.
Ziznivy,
“rather than pandering to a tiny minority of parents intent on playing political games with their children’s futures?”
You really don’t get it, do you? A lot of people actually like the idea of having their children educated through Irish.
Irish-medium schools are the top performers academically south of the border and I wouldn’t be surprised if this was replicated north of it.
“Whilst people produce sentences like that in English, no time or money should be wasted on the Irish Language.”
Luckily money spent on Irish Language education isn’t wasted then, isn’t it?
Am I right in saying that when a (unionist) MP asked about cost westminster, the reply was that children educated through Irish were costing less per pupil than the average?
Sean
If you think SF will give DUP a free run with Giants Causeway in the hope of getting away with some dubious deal on education then they are more foolish than I thought.
This is the era of accountability and long may it last.
Lorraine
“in the gaelic speaking communties of the Hebrides, one of the defenders of their gaelic heritage is “the wee Frees†– the Free Presbyterian church. why can we not be like that here and free a language older than the arguments we have from the predjudices of our arguments?”
1. Different place, different history, different context. By and large the Gaelic language movement has avoided the cul-de-sac of being a language for nationalists.
2. Its cherrypicking the bits you like. If the nationalist community wants to become evangelical protestants, have a conservative/biblical view of politics as well as use gaelic then I envisage Unionism and the DUP in particular developing a larger comfort zone around the use of it.
“Because local bigots version of history has got in the way. For instance one edward carson was a hurler for trinity. I am not able to say if doring the peroid he plaid at croker but it is possible. this is not a plea for ogra SF to reclaim his statue by tapeing a hurley in that hand but a call for a bit of common.”
Sorry to get in the way of a dream. It is very unlikely. It would have been a bit hard to play hurling at croker for trinity whenever he left trinity years before either the GAA was formed or Croker was used for/associated with Gaelic sports.
IIRC there is also the slight problem that the rule book of that particular club was closer to hockey than the rules for hurling later adopted by the GAA.
fair_deal,
“By and large the Gaelic language movement has avoided the cul-de-sac of being a language for nationalists”.
Even from your point of you thats not entirely true …
http://snp.org/people/westminster/angus-macneil-mp/
Sean
“By the way academic selection IS dead! What remains to be seen is what will replace it”
The 11+ may be dead but academic selection is not- everyone knows a Common Entrance Test will replace the current state sponsored system.
our language is superior and so are we’ -
english is superior, it is the language of the world.
By the way academic selection IS dead! What remains to be seen is what will replace it
Posted by Sean on Sep 24, 2007 @ 05:05 PM
Sean, i think youll find it is the Irish language that is dead, there will still be some form of academic selection
I think that it’s too good a point to gloss over,the millions spent policing the Orange/Black/Purple/pink? Order marches. For decades they have used their personal police force to flaunt their “Britishness” – a police force that we had to pay for too and none of us in it! Irish people here pay taxes/rates etc so why can’t we have a say in how it’s spent. If there was a grant for learning Irish or free Kash & Karry cards, we natives would be trampled in the rush.And how can you be British when there’s no such country as Britain.
And how can you be British when there’s no such country as Britain.
- how can you be irish when you dont live, or werent born in Ireland?
police force that we had to pay for too and none of us in it! – stop believing the SF crap, if there were no catholics in the RUC why did SF spend time murdering them?
Two small points, Observer. Firstly, no matter how you spin things, this is still Ireland. It may not be the Free State or the ‘Republic of Ireland’. Secondly, you seem confused about the RUC. There may have been Catholics in it but there were certainly no Nationalists.A person from India, who came to say Bradford in the ’50s would have grandchildren by now – two generations of people born in England. They are now English – OK? People who were planted here 400 years ago, surely their 10th generation descendants are Irish by now? When are you going to let go of Mammy Mainland’s apron strings and be your own people?
gael
An SNP MP does not a “gaelic language movement” make.
Fair_deal,
Of course not, but you cannot dismiss that the people of the heartland of Gaelic in Scotland chose a nationalist as their MP, maybe somethings are not as different.
BTW
“If the nationalist community wants to become evangelical protestants, have a conservative/biblical view of politics as well as use gaelic then I envisage Unionism and the DUP in particular developing a larger comfort zone around the use of it”
Please clarify, are you saying that that the problem with Irish speakers is that they are Catholic and that you believe that if they weren’t that there would be no problem?
gaelgannaire
PS it was the Labour Lib Dem governmnet who brought forward the gaelic language act of 2005. Also Angus McNeil is a “native speaker” so he would have spoken Gaelic before he was even politically aware.
FD
‘Angus McNeil is a “native speaker†so he would have spoken Gaelic before he was even politically aware’
so …?
Why not concentrate on delivering a high quality education in existing schools and concentratin on subjects pertinent to the real world, rather than pandering to a tiny minority of parents intent on playing political games with their children’s futures?
Same was said of integrated education movement, Ziznivy.
Oops- forgot the DUP’s latest line was to close all catholic, Irish medium and integrated schools (check DUP MLA Michelle McIlveen of the Education Committee for that priceless reminder of why educationalists are grateful the DUP have yet to get their hands on Education.)