Ahern confirms Fianna Fail to organise in NI…
BERTIE Ahern has confirmed that Fianna Fail will organise in Northern Ireland, following speculation. According to PA, the Taoiseach today told a party meeting in Co Wicklow: “I am announcing that Fianna Fail the Republican Party, will now move to develop a strategy for organising on a 32 county basis. This moves reflects the dramatic changes we have seen across the island.” Foreign Affairs Minister Dermot Ahern is leading the charge north, which seems to indicate FF is taking this seriously. While potential partners the SDLP appear nonchalant - with a spokesperson saying that “the SDLP will be ready for the challenge or opportunity of such a future adjustment when it ripens” – you can bet your bottom dollar that there will be some seriously concerned members of that party right now. The deputy leader, for example, is (or was) strongly opposed to partnership with FF.
I’m interested in the impact this will have on the (Irish) Labour Party members who oppose the party standing in Northern elections due to the Second International link with the SDLP. The historical link should of course be respected, but given that the SDLP seem far keener on working closely with another party (which is not a SI or PES member) then present-day connections should be reviewed and perhaps made a little more arms-length.
Also I hope that SDLP members who are uncomfortable with a link or even merger with FF would join an all-Ireland Labour Party which contests elections.
hahaa! Look at the Shinners are squirming now!
Especially since the last Southern election showed that the SDLP has more in common with the Southern way of thinking than SF does!
I for one welcome the news of FF strengthening their position and moving to the North. They are what the Irish people voted for so bring it on!
Let’s hope this is the dawning of a new day in Irish politics which will finally lead to the demise of the plastic Irish politics of the Shinners and a return to policies governed by true socialist principles that will do away with the farcical house of cards we have now!
Go Bertie! There’s a welcome here for you!
Bring it on the more all Ireland life becomes the closer we come to a fully united Ireland. Fianna Fail believe it is their destiny to govern and this is them setting in place the structures to ensure that when a United Ireland becomes a political reality they will be hitting the ground running. The other parties in the south should also start to organise in the six counties as well.
In the short to mid term it maybe about re-energising the SDLP but they will have a hell of a job. One only has to look at Derry in recent times. Two of their bright new stars elected onto council have resigned and replaced by SDLP veterans.
The SDLP are in a sorry state fractures, battered and worn and this announcement will only make those fractures worse. The deputy leader is no fan of Fianna Fail and will be supported by many within the party who are essentially happy to be northern Irish. A little bit nationalist and a little bit unionist.
Oiliféar,
Not sure what comic books you’re into, but try this one.
[url]http://www.e.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cirje/research/dp/2005/2005cf348.pdf[/url]
‘Theoretical studies suggest that corruption may counteract government failure and
promote economic growth in the short run, given exogenously determined suboptimal
bureaucratic rules and regulations’
No one has mentioned that FF’s move north of the border might prove a big benefit to SF south of the border.
Think about it the last election they managed to sideline SF quite effectively by claiming they werent satisfactory coalition partners but in the new dispensation they will have to work as partners to SF and the SDLP if they are to give nationalists an effective representation. If the SF are suitable partners in the north how can they object to them in the south? To claim it to be Bertie will have to be seen as blatant liars either north or south of the border and I believe it will cost him many votes either one side or the other but potentially both. No one likes to be lied to!
As for the defence question, Ireland and Canada are in much the same position neither country spends much of their GDP on defence instead relying on the elephant next door to provide it. We both are relatively small countries laying next to much bigger and more military countries. We both have only one country that can realistically invade us and that is the elephant next door. For Ireland its the Uk for Canada its the US and neither Canada nor Ireland can realistically expect to stop any invasion by their neighbour. Regardless of how much of the GDP we spent on the military they are in both cases 10x bigger than we are in population. So why waste money on a m,ilitary that will always be too small to be effective and returns no benefit to the country. I believe we should properly equip our military but to build up a military/industrial complex that is the equivolent of the US even on a pro rata basis is just foolhardy and living in denial. Let them provide your security for free after all its in their best interest
One Labour in NI will soon be debating standing in elections while the other Labour in NI just asked its executive to investigate with London and Dublin ways of ensuring that there will be no split Labour vote.
Interesting too that there are joint members on both executives.
Personally, I do not believe that SDLP PES or International membership has ever been more than a smokescreen. Labour is Labour – and the SDLP has just shown that it is not Labour.
Oh well; they wont be taking any votes off the Unionist parties. As a Unionist, I yhave no real problem with Fianna Fail moving north – everyone knows the Union is safe, there has been a Unionist group at TCD in times past (is it still there, does someone know?) and it should lead to a split in the nationalist vote, which might make the difference in some places, at lesat in Assembly contests.
Excellent Bretagne ! All wonderful ideas….except maybe “An asian free trade Area in Fermanagh border”…..A new plantation ??
You must be in a pretty desperate state Pride, if you are depending on splits in the nationalist vote to prop up unionism. Sorry to disappoint but a split vote in a PR election will make very little difference to the total nationalist vote and seat count. Plus don’t forget that FF may indeed take some of the garden centre unionist vote.
excellent stuff this news has brought!!!
It’s so funny to see the Shinner’s really can’t contain their bitterness! Even after the arse kicking they got in the last election, they can not resist a pitiful attempt to have a pop at the SDLP!!! Shows they must be worried!!! Maybe we’ll get Gerry making another appeal for the treasonous Irish to tell the families where the rest of the bodies are buried?
NOT a good day for the Shinners!!!
FF do it again!
“they wont be taking any votes off the Unionist parties. As a Unionist, I yhave no real problem with Fianna Fail moving north – everyone knows the Union is safe”
The current point on the journey of constitutional politics isn’t that awesome nor worrying, as of yet. Therefore, the significance of FF stating they intend to mobilise in Northern Ireland currently poses as much a constitutional threat as does the prospect of Tories further mobilising.
It’s all much to do with wait and see, however, as stated it will be to do with leadership, relationships, endurance and a lot of money to campaign on.
But if FF stand local formerly SDLP/SF-minded MLAs under a new FF banner the Southern brand could become replaced with inherent ethnicity-politics. If that visibly happens then they could well become another part of the Northern Ireland problem.
Choose wisely and act even wiser.
“they managed to sideline SF quite effectively by claiming they werent satisfactory coalition partners but in the new dispensation they will have to work as partners to SF and the SDLP if they are to give nationalists an effective representation. If the SF are suitable partners in the north how can they object to them in the south?”
J –
They don’t need to object particularly – they just have to stop people transferring to SF – which is what happened last time around. If they can repeat that with anything like the success, then it is show over for SF – maximum TD base of 2-4.
This move is to help prevent any increase in transfers, which had they arrived, would have gotton one SF TD in Donegal SW. There is going to be a realignment in left-wing politics in the South at any rate – and that will determine the ultimate size of the SF PFV’s it may even grow by 20% in some constituencies – but with no transfers that still leaves 2-4 TD’s.
The FF argument will go – we don’t trust SF to run our econonmy in the Republic and we will not go into coalitiion with them. We still would not enter government with them next time out – (no point in people txfering to SF then). Labour broke rank with every other party in the Seanad election – but I see that as a one-off.
SF need a bounce in FPV’s – if FF/SDLP stop them in Western constituencies in the North, then thats is a very big ask…
This move is not about the SDLP members – its about the three western border seats – So from an FF point of view – I would leave Belfast for now, as Alasdair Mcdonnell will lose his seat.
1886, Harry, not 1621. The British want out of Ireland and have wanted out for well-over a century. Ulster Unionists rejected home rule in ’22 and got partition and more home rule than they had opposed in return. Northern Ireland was ignored for almost the entirity of the 20th century (with the exception of the war years when it served as a musting point for D-day.)
Anyone who wants a united Ireland should only look east to find a determined ally who’s caught between a rock and a hard place. Public opinion in Britain favours of a united Ireland. There is nothing except sh*t holding there.
The war ended years ago. Comments about ‘kicking the Brits out’ etc. are a distraction from building actual unity on this island. Bring on FF, who deal with the British every day and know that the real challenge to Irish unity is to knock some sense into those who are determined on nothing but division.
smcgiff, would be nice if you read more than the first sentence in the abstract. Take the second sentence for example: “As the government failure is itself a function of corruption, however, corruption should have detrimental effects on economic growth in the long run.”
Yes, following stupid rules is stupid. Not fixing those stupid rules, having a curupt government or citizens not following prudent rules is stupider. Which kind of person are you?
OILibhear Chromaill
Former terrorists being involved in Government makes a welcome change from despotic sectarian anti-democrats running an apartheid like regime for 50 years.
“Apartheid-like†regime? Goodness, you really enjoy your MOPEry, don’t you?
So your understanding of NI 1921-72 is that people in NI were legally classified into religious groups and legally separated from one another? Roman Catholics were denied citizenship and encouraged to live in separate “reserves†or “homelands� They were denied the vote, denied representation? They were physically segregated by the state – a separate health service for RCs; a separate beach at Newcastle for RCs and one for Protestants; separate transport systems? They had to drink out of separate water fountains? Is it your understanding that RCs and Protestants were prohibited by law from intermarriage or from having sex?
Shame on you for belittling and diminishing the travails of the Black population in South Africa with your petty MOPEry. The more you exaggerate, the less credibility you have.
Ironically, one aspect of apartheid which i pertain in NI, and still does, was segregated education. Who was and is responsible for this? If there was and is any “separate development†in NI it is at the behest of nationalism.
HARRY
Britian no doubt has an interest in the english channel but we do not see it invading north west France to secure this interest. It no doubt has an interest in the free trade into and out of Rotterdam on the mouth of the Rhine – but we do not see it invading Holland or interfering in significant and heavy-handed ways with Holland’s politics. Britian no doubt has an interest in maritime access to N. Germany and Russia via the Baltic as well as security considerations over its North Sea oil platforms but we do not see it invading part of Denmark or Norway or interfering in significant ways with the internal politics of those countries. We do however see all of these things in Britain’s relations with Ireland, both north and south even to this day, at the beginning of the 21st century.
When, during the beginning of the 21st century, did Britain either invade Southern Ireland or interfere in significant ways in its internal politics. With regard to the latter, the opposite is the case, with Southern Ireland interfering in UK internal politics formally since 1985!
Dewi –
“.except maybe “An asian free trade Area in Fermanagh border ..A new plantation ??”
Ok got a bit off track – but I don’t do this Social Democratic stuff very well….
Another possible thing fot the mix : –
http://www.sluggerotoole.com/archives/2005/04/deeney_asks_uni.php
how about a compromise candidate is West Tyrone – with FF/SDLP candidtate promising to go back over this issue – with Bertie’s agreement. I see a “spatial plan for acute services in border areas” added to the list.
“I would leave Belfast for now, as Alasdair Mcdonnell will lose his seat.”
Probably – but not certainly. 3 Nationalist MLAs to 2 Unionist. Assembly vote 42% to 40% in favour of Unionists. Lots of students, some non-sectarianism, a fare view in-migrants. Could be interesting.
Oiliféar
‘would be nice if you read more than the first sentence in the abstract.’
I did read more than the first sentence, but the second sentence is supplemental to the first and doesn’t contradict it.
One of the most successful mature economies in the world is Japan, yet is beset by corruption.
No one argues that long term corruption is good for an economy, but show me an economy that doesn’t have it.
Willowfield,
What’s your general take on FF moving into NI politics?
A fair few sorry
smcgiff, “No one argues that long term corruption is good for an economy, but show me an economy that doesn’t have it.” Every economy has curruption. Every good government does its best to eradicate it.
If I followed your sting of nonsense correctly, you were arguing that curruption was good for the Irish economy (leading to the boom)? And that the citizens of the Republic did well to vote for curupt government? That’s idiocy and your pals Nobuo Akai et al will set you straight on it.
A traffic warden deciding not to give tickets on days when the town car park is full is curupt, but good (both for the economy and for drivers’ sanity). A second car park never being built because the owner of the first puts brown envelopes across the desk of well-placed party chieftans – that’s bad (bad for the economy and bad for drivers). It was the second kind of curuption that beset Ireland. Please don’t insult the voters of the Republic, and yoursef, by saying that they were clever to vote for it.
As a unionist I am not at all perturbed about this as it will actually help get the unionist vote out.
It of course does nothing to foster good relations in NI though and that is what Reg is commenting on.
Basically Nationalism wants to look south all the time at the expense of its northern unionist neighbours.
It wants to pay allegiance to sporting teams based in another jurisdiction and possibly even give their votes to another country’s political party.
I know nationalists will see it differently than that but no matter how it is dressed up that is the reality.
FF’s main role is the economic advancement of the 26 counties at the expense of all others. NI is a totally different fiscal jurisdiction and presents huge mid lothian type questions that would far outstretch the issues being raised in the Scottish Parliament debate.
Is northern FF Policy going to be formulated in Dublin by people who have no Tax stake in the 6 counties ?
Unionism will have a field day highlighting policies developed by people who’s own lives, health care and prosperity will not be affected by them at all.
Are we going to have Stormont Assembly FF members taking their lead from Dublin on matters that effect Northern Ireland ?
FF have gifted Unionism the best recruitment tool that any of us could imagine.
As for somebody saying above the odd garden centre unionist might vote for FF – LOL !
The exact opposite – this is just more differentiation between unionism and nationalism and will actually galvanise support among the former.
However what I find most disturbing is that in a week we are hearing about grubby piles of cash in grubby little constituency offices that FF hold the northern nationalist electorate in such disdain that they think they can make such an announcement with such fanfare and be welcomed by the northern parties they intend to swallow hole.
Oiliféar, my dear illiterate,
What has been attributed to spawning the boom in the ROI? I’ll give you a clue. It’s tailing off fairly rapidly of late, and the economists are falling all over each other with reports of doom and gloom.
Now if you think the construction industry in Ireland wasn’t corrupt in the 80’s and 90’s then that is naïve beyond belief.
My retort to Slug was in response to his jibes at the Irish electorate, and since then he’s been pretty much preoccupied with my post. Job done as far as I’m concerned.
Hi, if anyone is interested in getting in touch with members of the FF Northern Forum, email tionolthuaisceart@gmail.com or check out ffnorthernforum.com. We welcome new members!
With the electoral system for Stormont FF don’t really have to enter into pacts with anyone. Might be an idea to stand one candidate in each constituency at the next election and see what happens.
Maybe focus on half a dozen seats as real targets.
That was quick, Shane!
BTW, Shane. Do you know if that is an intend name – Northern Fianna Fail?
smcgiff,
“What has been attributed to spawning the boom in the ROI? I’ll give you a clue. It’s tailing off fairly rapidly of late, and the economists are falling all over each other with reports of doom and gloom.” Staw man.
“Now if you think the construction industry in Ireland wasn’t corrupt in the 80’s and 90’s then that is naïve beyond belief.” Straw man.
“My retort to Slug was in response to his jibes at the Irish electorate, and since then he’s been pretty much preoccupied with my post. Job done as far as I’m concerned.” So you did say it then? Gosh!
There are many positives to be had from this but top of my list is the possibility, sometime in the future of seeing a politician up here with a touch of charisma, and the ability to talk without sounding like a twat that’s just realised he’s wandered in front of a TV camera.
“It of course does nothing to foster good relations in NI though and that is what Reg is commenting on.”
Do you have a problem with democracy? FF have to win seats to have any influence here.
“Basically Nationalism wants to look south all the time at the expense of its northern unionist neighbours.”
Not all of the time. Particularly when the Assembly is doing things that affect daily life. And really, it’s not at at your expense.
But no, Nationalists actually won’t stop being Nationalists. How about that?
“It wants to pay allegiance to sporting teams based in another jurisdiction and possibly even give their votes to another country’s political party.”
You realise that once FF organise in the North, they are now also a NI political party. That’s how it works.
And really, must we do the sport argument again? For benefit, pin this to your wall: the State does not define identity.
“I know nationalists will see it differently than that but no matter how it is dressed up that is the reality.”
I know people will have a completely different opinion, but I’m right. So there. Take that, Nationalists!
John of East Belfast.
“Basically Nationalism wants to look south all the time at the expense of its northern unionist neighbours.”
Although I agree with some of what you say about the West Lothian/Northern FF question in relation to the remarks above you only have to look at the change in SF policy re. the assembly to show the shift in Nationalist opinion to “northern unionist neighbours”. The GFA/STA agreement has fuzzied the constitutional border between north and south and alolowed even die hard free staters like like FF to actually look North. It is arguable that Non Iron has become more Irish post GFA/STA and Nationalists have therfore less need to look South.
“Some of you seem intent on building creatively on Reg’s ‘hand grenade’ metaphor, but surely this move will only work if FF can move to decisively into the SDLP space? To do that it will need to display the kind of ruthless steel that thus far we’ve only seen from SF and DUP in Northern Ireland.” – Mick Fealty
What would be the point if they only take the SDLP space? The point, surely, is to take (reclaim) PSF space, shifting PSF to their rightful place in the tattered margins of Irish history.
What is it other than taking the remnants of the now wheel-less cart of PSF much-touted “Republican Strategy” of holding power as a minority partner in a southern coalition government and using that power as a dynamic to further a unity agenda? Notice, by the way, now PSF quickly dropped all self-promoting talk of their “Republican Strategy” after it blew up in the faces (no pun intended)?
It’s too bad for PSF that FF already has power in a southern coalition government, and as the major, not minority, partner. So now the SDLP/FF can use that
“Republican Strategy” more brilliantly can PSF could ever have dreamed of using it, giving them the advantage with the northern electorate that PSF hoped to have with it.
The question is: are the northern electorate so brainwashed into seeing things PSF’s way at this stage that they even overlook now how important they once deemed that strategy to be? It’s a wait-and-see game, with the sure thing being that if FF go north, it will be with the firm aim of wiping PSF off the Irish political map.
The GFA is all things to all men. What we are left with at the end of it though is exactly what was there before – constitutionally, in the make up and control of its police force, in its subservience to westminster and british rule. Nothing has changed for nationalists at the end of it, all is as before. Nationalists are allowed to have aspirations but then they always were, that has not changed. Into the vacuum of punctured hopes left in the wake of Sinn Féin’s bad performance in the south comes Ahern and Fianna Fáil with more ‘aspirations’ in the form of waffle about moving north – enough waffle to keep the ‘process’ going but precious little specifics or timeframes.
In other countries in europe one is allowed to pursue a form of politics that is robust, transparent and where people speak what they mean and know where they stand. We Irish however are not allowed such politics, even now. What we are allowed is a politics of double-speak where no-one knows really what’s going on or what the intended outcome will be; where intelligence agencies are allowed to operate with impunity and we are expected to simply accept that their manipulation and infiltration of political parties is a normal part and parcel of the political lives we lead; where ducking and diving and the politics of a clouded-mind rather than a clear head are to be our lot.
Apparently we Irish are guilty of the sin of Irishness in Ireland. Both north and south the most identifiable problem appears to be Irishness, a state of being which is to be undone as much as possible by anglicisation, media and political manipulation and massive immigration with the intention of reducing the monolithic nature of our nationalism and identity through a thousand multi-cultural splinters. We are, apparently, a problem.
And at the end of all this process, fêted by sundry tricolour-waving black taxi driving republicans and myriad natiionalist players and commentators, what do we have? A constitutional position which has changed barely one iota and a statelet which even refuses to recognise the historic language of the majority of people on the island who constitute almost half of the population of the said statelet. So much for victory and so much for Sinn Féin’s negotiating prowess.
And now, to top it all, the king of neither-here-nor-therenessness – Ahern, the embarrassing crook with the penchant for all things anglo – tells us he’s coming north (sometime, maybe, in some unspecified way) and we’re all to go rushing out and ring the church bells in celebration.
Seems this process has more in common with bread and circuses and smoke and mirrors than any substance as far as I can see.
Typo correction:
…SDLP/FF can use that “Republican Strategy” more brilliantly than PSF could ever have dreamed of using it…
Smcgiff
“As the government failure is itself a function of corruption, however, corruption should have detrimental effects on economic growth in
the long run. In this paper, we measure the rate of economic growth for various time
spans—short (1998–2000), middle (1995–2000) and long (1991–2000)—using
previously uninvestigated state-level cross-section data for the United States. Our
two-stage least square (2SLS) estimates with a carefully selected set of instruments
show that the effect of corruption on economic growth is indeed negative and
statistically significant in the middle and long spans but insignificant in the short span.”
That is from the article you cited to claim that corruption is good for economic performance.
Depends what you define as short-term slug, keep reading – that’s a good boy.
Smcgiff
In table 2 (the main table of the paper) the corruption index estimated using 2SLS has a negative coefficient for all three time spans used, its just that in the short span it is statistically insignificant. (The left hand side variable is economic growth).
Why do you regard this as evidence that corruption has a positive effect on economic performance?
smcgiff, I take your point. But as it happens, Ireland is ranked close of the top of ethical societies, based on its politics and business practices. I suspect slu will find that to be very disappointing.
Harry, have you factored the role that self-censorship played in containing Irish nationalist aspirations? A lot of people genuinely felt that there was a genie that needed to be kept in its bottle, particularly in regard to the spectre of sectarian civil war that PSF/PIRA tried to force back out of its bottle as the only possible paramilitary ‘endgame’ to its murder campaign in the north. It became necessary to keep Irish nationalism under ‘control’ in the south with the purpose being that citizens in the south didn’t offer any support to the murder campaign that was going on up there, which might have been the case if a hard-line nationalist attitude emerged as a result of PIRA’s very skilled propagandists. Some of that control was illegitimate in that it emanated from another state (the Dublin and Monaghan bombings which sought to influence the outcome of a Dial debate on special powers, directly interfered in the affairs on a sovereign state by the expedient of murdering its citizens, the arrest of an MI6 agent in a Dublin hotel while being passed top secret state documents from Patrick Crinnion, private secretary to the head of the Irish Special Branch, Chief Superintendent John P Fleming, control of a certain media group, etc) but much of it was in the form self-censorship such as Section 31.
‘I take your point. But as it happens, Ireland is ranked close of the top of ethical societies, based on its politics and business practices. I suspect slu will find that to be very disappointing.’
Probably the way I should have countered Slug, but not sure if Slug will accept this.
Slug,
There were other more recent studies that claimed corruption helped to kick start economies. I could trawl through the internet to find them, but couldn’t be arsed.
JK:
“The SDLP are in a sorry state fractures, battered and worn and this announcement will only make those fractures worse.”
I agree with the first part of this analysis. The second part has yet to be proven. A big ruck might be just what the SDLP needs to clear the air, if it has a suitor to fall back on.
Which kind of raises another question about suitors on the other side. The SDLP is four years down the line from their shock treatment at the polls in November 2003. The UUP had to wait until May 2005.
Will have to wait another two years before the Tories make them an offer they can’t refuse?
smcgiff,
“Depends what you define as short-term slug, keep reading – that’s a good boy.”
Read it yourself, smcgiff! ‘Short term’ is defined as the two-year period 1998–2000. For this they found no significant result i.e. they cannot say that curruption has an effect, for good or for bad, over a two-year period. They explain why lower down:
“Using such short-term data presents a methodological problem; namely, economic growth in the short-term is influenced by a number of unobserved or immeasurable short-term factors, some of which may be systematic rather than stochastic. Such short-term random and non-random factors can ‘average out’ in the long-run.”
The averaging out means that in the medium and long term the effect of curuption is clearly visible as being detrimental to an economy. In the short-term, however, they cannot isolate the effect of curuption from all of the other things going on – so they just can’t say.
Now, your argument was that curuption was good for an economy. And you presented this paper as evidience for your case. Why did you not read it first?
“I suspect slu will find that to be very disappointing.”
Don’t make any assumptions about my attitude to the Irish Republic. I am not claiming that the Irish Republic is in a general sense other than an ethical place. I am an admirer of the Irish Republic.
My argument with smcgiff is more specific, namely a criticism of his view articulated progressively through this thread that (i) corruption is good for economic growth in many economies ; (ii) corruption has contributed in an important way to the economic growth in the Irish Republic; and (iii) the Irish electorate were internalising (ii) in a sophisticated way when voting FF.
My personal view is that (ii) is not correct and therefore (iii) cannot follow.
Dubliner
I know this is a wet dream seeing as you only ever post about SF and how bad they are, and how they should go away, but nothing has actually happened yet and no one actually knows what the precise arrangements are with the SDLP, so perhaps waiting before declaring the destruction of SF might be an idea?
Moreover, as Chris points out previously, losing votes is a worthwhile price for decisively winning the argument. Personally, I am happy to see more parties, as long as it means new ideas and new energy.
‘Why did you not read it first?’
Quite happy for yourself and slug to read it, so I can concentrate on intelligent comment from the likes of Willowfield, John East Belfast, Harry and others.
I’ll use any tactic I like to keep those that make flippant comments (slug’s recent fawning excepted) busy elsewhere. Although, I’ve not seen Ffinancial being written for a while.
Perhaps in the last 12 hours I can hope for more mature debate?
Now, are you sure you read it all?
‘but nothing has actually happened yet and no one actually knows what the precise arrangements are’
When has that every stopped us, Kensei?
Kensei,
“Moreover, as Chris points out previously, losing votes is a worthwhile price for decisively winning the argument.”
That sounds like something someone from the SDLP would say after seeing yet another bastion fall to SF or what the PDs were all saying after being all-but wiped out in the last election.
smcgiff are you an FF supporter?
‘smcgiff are you an FF supporter?’
Do your insults know no bounds, slug!
Kensei – you reminded me of Chris’s post..thank you – it was brilliant..
“Sinn Fein simply do not have the capacity to achieve such an objective on our own, and therefore pressuring other parties to follow suit and organise on an all-Ireland basis is a key plank in the strategy.”
Now key planks SF would know something about….
thats a good one, SF is now just a lobby group.
“losing votes is a worthwhile price for decisively winning the argument”
I take it this refer to organising on a 32 county basis. If so – it really does remain to be seen – after damaging SF electorally, FF might decide that the Northern entity is stable, and safe, and go back to the 26 counties. FF will take this slowly and deliberately – and if the job is done – all bets are off.
smcgiff, you’d been stringing that nonsense out for 6 pages and all it took me was four short posts for you to admit you were talking shite. Do us all a favour and stick to your depth in future.
Labourman
How is UK Labour in NI coming along with its criteria for local organisation to take place? Just curious as things have been a little silent in the last 4 months.