Can sport heal old wounds (or enflame them)?
The third of three parties to our A Long Peace? document of 2003, Trevor Ringland had a piece in the Observer yesterday, extolling the capacity of sport to “sustain relationships when others were destroying them”. Yet it would be hard to dissuade anyone who had read our international soccer threads from thinking that, in fact, sport leads to precisely the opposite outcome: i.e. mutual loathing between local rival supporters. Of course, in Rugby occasional tempests between north and south are kept in-house (and not always in the healthiest of ways). In soccer, the relatively recent success of the Republic’s team has exercised a pull on fans from Northern Ireland, and is even beginning to draw players too, which appears to challenge this notion that sport can heal wounds, even as it doles them out on the pitch.
But Ringland argues that the on-the-ground work can make a real difference:
Much has been achieved already. Belfast Harlequins RFC share their ground with St Bridget’s GAA and Ballymena RFC with the Antrim hurlers. Linfield Football Club have opened up their training pitch for use by a camogie GAA team and Teemore Gaelic club have signed up to the One Small Step [no, not this one] campaign.
A simple notion embraced by all sports – rugby, football, Gaelic and others – is that they represent all the people whether it be playing for the county, province or country. A simple gesture but one that many respond to. It pulls people out of the trenches.
It remains an open question as to whether this bottom up approach is enough to deal with the top down pressures of success/failure that have help to condition the levels of conflict within the soccer code. Irish soccer survives in a fairly fragile ecology. Prior to 1982, only Northern Ireland had managed to claw their way to the finals of a major international tournament, and poaching and swapping players was common. In a poorer commons, conflicts of interest are likely to be all the sharper.
Niall Quinn may have put his finger on something two years ago when he highlighted a key difference between the two codes:
I think the Setanta Cup has been great. At least we are exploring. We didn’t for a long time, and the Setanta Cup seems to be getting more and more backing.
I’m on the Irish Sports Council andwe’re looking at ways of getting involved for next year’s competition. It may be that that’s the route through which we discover each other. It’s as if there’s an imaginary football wall with another stadium that side and we’re playing this side. Maybe the more cross border games that are played the more we understand each other.
That’s what happens in rugby. The teams from Ulster come down here and play club matches all the time. So they are shuffling and crossing all the time, whereas in football it’s only trickling at the moment. But if that’s the best way forward that might lead to young teams getting together.
Judging by the regular inter-fan flaming on Slugger, we have a long way to go.
Thank you Beano (Post 23) for helping me become suave and sophisticated like what you are and although I tend to agree with you that it is all a load of nonsense, I do not agree that it has been done to death. (otherwise, why Slugger?) I have hundreds of nuggets of homespun wisdom yet to impart. However, what has been done to death is this ceaseless whining about Association Football. It’s only a game! It’s not grown up stuff like politics or religion!
How many G.a.a. grounds and are named after republican terrorists. They might as well put up signs saying no unionist need apply.
Posted by No Dozer on Sep 11, 2007 @ 08:04 PM
Quite alot of GAA grounds seem to be named after Protestants (Parnell,Tone,Casement,Semple,Dr Hyde,Markievicz etc). Even Sam Maguire was a good ol’ Prod! Of course you probably regard them all as terrorists. Edward Carson was quite a good hurler apparently. Another terrorist I suppose if you’re being consistent. Don’t have time to look it up but are there many rugby grounds in NI named after Catholics? They wouldn’t want to put up the “no nationalists need apply sign” so I presume there’s a few. Though I wouldn’t bet my life on it…
Don’t have time to look it up but are there many rugby grounds in NI named after Catholics?
Haven’t a clue, but I’ll bet you not one rugby club is named after a “protestant” terrorist, there is not one children’s tournament named after a protestant terrorist and not once has Ulster let the UVF/UDA use Ravenhill for a “commemoration” rally.
Now, back to the main point of the thread.
Rugby (unlike the GAA) does, to an extent, transcend the communal and religious boundaries; witness the many Ulster protestants who follow the “Ireland” rugby team, regardless of how the IRFU has behaved in the past re anthems, emblems etc.
Is there any potential whatsoever in the GAA peforming a similar kind of function, ie becoming a cross-community sport?
Does it need to, in your opinion, and if so, how can it make the whole GAA experience more attractive to non-traditional fans?
Try and be positive and attack that question.
“”OK so we can all get along as long as we play by nationalist rules.â€
Nope, it’s just that separate teams are incapable of uniting everyone here. You are welcome to try, I just don’t see it working”
Kensei – thats saying the same thing in a different way. You are saying that *you* wont support ‘partition’ sports so *you* expect everyone else to go along with your model of all island associations.
There are perfect models of sports ogranised in a seperate UK and ROI basis that get along just fine – its just you dont want to see.
“It’s not grown up stuff like politics or religion!”
Oh God, I hope that was in jest.
Ravenhill has an end named after St Thomas Aquinas
surely he was a catholic?
“Quite a lot of grounds seemed to be named after protestants”
I have never claimed that the G.A.A.is religiously sectarian(just some of it’s supporters) but it certainly is politically and culturally sectarian, just like the nice miidle class I.R.F.U. I have never come across or heard of any unionists playing G.A.A. as adults.
‘Haven’t a clue, but I’ll bet you not one rugby club is named after a “protestant†terrorist, there is not one children’s tournament named after a protestant terrorist and not once has Ulster let the UVF/UDA use Ravenhill for a “commemoration†rally.’
As a football man thats a joke statement.
Commemorations for uvf/pup leader at the oval, grounds and social clubs used by orange order and other ‘organisations’. unionist only symbols and anthems at internationals, upsurge in sectarianism by supporters etc…etc….
Oh dear, you seem to be struggling here.
As a football man thats a joke statement.
Why?
There are Ulster rugby grounds named after terrorists? Want to enlighten us- where?
Sammaguire made a point about perceived sectarianism in Ulster rugby, hence my comparison.
I note that no gaelic fans have run with my question about cross-community programmes or ideas. Do none of you have an opinion, or do you not consider this “kind of thing” important?
KENSEI
The advantages of All Ireland teams are that everyone can support them, rather than the football situation which fractures into Nationalists and Unionists supporting different teams.
By that logic, go the whole hog and have an all-British-Isles team.
SAMMAGUIRE
Quite alot of GAA grounds seem to be named after Protestants (Parnell,Tone,Casement,Semple,Dr Hyde,Markievicz etc).
Can you discern any theme in the type of Protestants the GAA likes to commemorate? Ironically, your list simply highlights the partisan political nature of the GAA!
“By that logic, go the whole hog and have an all-British-Isles team.”
Where are these “British Isles”? My Irish maps don’t seem to have them.
I wasn’t aware the Scottish, the English and the Welsh were in fact Irish. I was so hoping you’d go for “By that logic, we might as well have a United Ireland” too.
willow
>>Can you discern any theme in the type of Protestants the GAA likes to commemorate? Ironically, your list simply highlights the partisan political nature of the GAA!<<
Aye they like to commemorate Irish people who tended not to be subservient to the supposed masters will, your point? The partisan politics that you speak of is a double-edged sword, just how many Unionist politicians down the years have ever championed Gaelic games?
Condemning an organisation for a state of affairs not entirely of their making is not really fair. Actually it is ludicrous judging them for not having people from a particular creed, or a political ethos that has been at times actively hostile to them.
No Dozer.
Contradict yourself much?
“Where are these “British Islesâ€? My Irish maps don’t seem to have them.”
Radio Moscow used to announce (deliberately) that they were broadcasting to the British Isles and Ireland.
You should have thrown this article back at me sammaguire earlier:
http://www.tribune.ie/article.tvt?_scope=Tribune/News/Home%20News&id=77219&SUBCAT=Tribune/News&SUBCATNAME=News
Granted, the initiative came from the schools rather than the GAA, but still a welcome development?
KENSEI
Where are these “British Isles� My Irish maps don’t seem to have them.
Zzzzzzz
I wasn’t aware the Scottish, the English and the Welsh were in fact Irish.
Nor was I. What a stupid and irrelevant comment you’ve just made.
I was so hoping you’d go for “By that logic, we might as well have a United Ireland†too.
No: if a team representing “All Ireland†means that “everyone [in Ireland] can support themâ€, it must also follow that a team representing “All the British Isles [or whatever name your over-sensitive self wants to give them] must mean that everyone in the British Isles can support them.
Do you disagree with your own logic?
PRINCE EOGHAN
Aye they like to commemorate Irish people who tended not to be subservient to the supposed masters will, your point? The partisan politics that you speak of is a double-edged sword, just how many Unionist politicians down the years have ever championed Gaelic games?
GAA is the only sport that commemorates any political icons. That’s the point! Rugby doesn’t do it; football doesn’t do it; cricket doesn’t do it, etc., etc., even though presumably politicians down the years have “championed†those sports. GAA is a sport immersed in partisan politics like no other. That’s the point.
Condemning an organisation for a state of affairs not entirely of their making is not really fair.
Who forced them to name their grounds, clubs, teams, etc. after republicans?!! Wise up. They did so, and continue to do so, of their own volition.
Actually it is ludicrous judging them for not having people from a particular creed, or a political ethos that has been at times actively hostile to them.
And why has this “particular creed or political ethos†at times been “actively hostile�! The GAA was set up specifically to promote exclusive sports for Catholic/nationalists; to discourage young Catholics/nationalists from playing sport and socialising with Protestant/unionists. It was overtly anti-British and anti-unionist. It was organisationally and publicly allied with the Roman Catholic Church and with nationalist and republican politics. It was chauvinistically nationalist, deliberately promoting an exclusive “Gaelic†Irishness.
If you start off like that, you’ve only yourselves to blame for being an apartheid sport and for the resulting apathy/hostility from those excluded. Yet you blame the excluded ones!
>>you’ve only yourselves to blame for being an apartheid sport and for the resulting apathy/hostility from those excluded. Yet you blame the excluded ones!<<
Just when I was beginning to be mesmerised by that tirade common sense overwhelmed me. Just who is responsible for excluding Unionists/Prods, and when did this exclusion policy begin? I’ve never heard of it but am willing to sign any letter of protest against it. And here was me thinking it was Proddy teams that had a shocking history of excluding Catholics, perhaps I’m mixed up?
Just when I was beginning to be mesmerised by that tirade common sense overwhelmed me. Just who is responsible for excluding Unionists/Prods
The GAA.
, and when did this exclusion policy begin?
Right from the off. It was the GAA’s raison d’etre. It was founded as an exclusive Catholic/nationalist organisation. Yet you blame the excluded ones for being excluded!
I’ve never heard of it …
Then you should educate yourself.
Eamonn Sweeney (2004), Pocket History of Gaelic Sport
http://www.obrien.ie/files/extracts/PocketGAA-Sample.pdf
“Cumann Lúthchleas Gael, or the Gaelic Athletic Association, was a nationalist organisation from the outset. Its formation was contemporaneous with that of the Gaelic League, and like the League it was a product of the cultural nationalism of the time – it was no coincidence that hurleys were carried as substitutes for guns on ceremonial occasions, for example, Charles Stewart Parnell’s funeral. The Gaelic Athletic Association was very much a creature of the political ferment of the late nineteenth century, which would eventually lead to the Easter Rising and Irish Independence in 1922.â€
“The new body elected to invite appropriate persons to be patrons of the organisation. They approached Dr Thomas Croke, the Archbishop of Cashel, Michael Davitt and Charles Stewart Parnell.â€
Sugden and Harvie (1995) Sport and Community Relations in Northern Ireland
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/csc/reports/sugdenharvie/sugdenharvie95-1.htm
“The GAA’s first charter included regulations which banned members from taking part in or watching games not deemed to be ethnically Irish or organised by the GAA and effectively barred members of the security forces from joining.â€
“Gaelic sport was an integral part of the Irish nationalist movement and demonstrated not only deepening hostility and anger towards the symbols of British rule but also evidence of the internal divisions afflicting its politics. Control of the GAA became a major feature of the factional struggle between constitutional nationalists and those who advocated the use of physical force.â€
Interview with Mike Cronin, author of “Sport and Nationalism in Ireland†(1999) (Radio National (Australia), 19th January 2001)
http://www.ausport.gov.au/fulltext/2001/sportsf/s226378.htm
Amanda Smith: “So its origins were to promote and develop Gaelic sports as a cultural expression of Irish distinctiveness, but also as a political expression of Irish nationalism?â€
Mike Cronin: “Absolutely. I think that’s where there’s two very important stories. … And they’re games that were incredibly well suited to rural Ireland at that time, because the GAA’s master stroke was basing the organisation of the games around the local parishes. So every parish priest became, if you like, the chairman of each individual club …. I think nationalism comes in in the ethos of the organisation at the first stroke. But then obviously within a matter of months, the GAA is taken over at the committee level at least, and then slowly throughout the whole country, by members of a sort of radical nationalist organisation called the Irish Republican Brotherhood who are physical force nationalists who are aiming at the kind of military expulsion of Britain from Ireland. And the IRB, although people in the IRB are very dedicated and very able sports organisers and administrators, but they are underpinning the whole organisation with ideas of a radical Irish nationalism, and in certain cases a very violent Irish nationalism. So those two ideas, the sport and the nationalism, the political nationalism, go hand in hand from a very early date within the organisation’s history.â€
Willow
You demonstrate an ability to type for Ireland whilst saying not a lot.
Sure any rabid Unionist may not feel comfortable with the Nationalist ethos, same without the sectarian songs for Catholics/Nationalists at N.I. games. Just where were they excluded and when though? Now we are all aware of Proddy clubs like Linfield and Rangers discriminating against Catholics, you have yet to provide evidence of where Prods have been excluded. The reason for this is because you can’t!
You obviously didn’t read any of the quotations.
Keep your head in the sand if that’s where you like it.
Lovely willow
In the words of dads army “they don`t like it up em”
Willow, I refer you to your own statement on Sep 13, 2007 @ 09:42 AM
>>f you start off like that, you’ve only yourselves to blame for being an apartheid sport and for the resulting apathy/hostility from those excluded. Yet you blame the excluded ones!< <
Now if you can't back up your assertion that Prods or Unionists were excluded then fair enough, no need to try and piss in my pocket and tell me it's raining. Sometimes an outright hatred of Gaelic Irishness isn't enough, you must provide evidence for your ridiculous and outrageous remarks.
Also 'apartheid sport' what are you on? We can look to the official policy of clubs representing the Unionist/Proddy community, where is the evidence for your nonsense?
If not then it is goodnight Vienna!
Barnshee.
>>“they don`t like it up emâ€<<
You lookin to get Willow banned from the free Presbyterian’s for that kind of behaviour?
Now if you can’t back up your assertion that Prods or Unionists were excluded …
Read the quotations. A sport devised deliberately as an overtly nationalist sport for nationalists by definition excludes unionists. Exclusion doesn’t have to be as overt as having a sign up over the door saying “No unionists”.
Also ‘apartheid sport’ what are you on?
A sport for Catholics/nationalists only. A sport that promotes social division between the two traditions in Ireland.
Willowfield
I admire your commitment to the cause.
As I said some time ago, the last ten years, rightly, have been tough for Protestants, having to come to terms with their own appalling sectarianism. Nor is the process anywhere near complete.
The coming ten years will be tough for Catholics, for the same reason.
Most of the sectarian poison that blights our society is hidden, but no less appalling for that.
Kensei
Direct quote:
Sinn Féin is the fastest growing party in the British Isles
Mitchel McLaughlin, March 2007.
So, the poll-topping MLA for South Antrim seems to know where they are. I’d say it’s time you caught up.
Did you enjoy the Latvia beer, Willowfield?
Best beer I’ve had on an away-trip was Elephant in Copenhagen…7.4%, thank you very much.
The most recent Ms O’Neill was not entirely satisfied with its side-effects, but I did outline a pretty feasible solution to the Jerusalem Question .
Might send a case off to Nigel, could help with his selection headaches.
‘Did you enjoy the Latvia beer, Willowfield?’
It seems the hundreds of supporters singing sectarian songs during the Latvia trip was the most popular ‘bitter’ !
You’ve almost got it there Dave…almost.
Yes I spotted it too oneill. He dropped the n after Latvia! Latvia is a noun not an adjective of course.
Wasn’t able to check out the link that you provided. For the record I don’t regard Ulster rugby or the GAA as sectarian. Although I do suspect that Trevor Brennan was provoked by something more than Ulster fans slagging his pub. And I’m sure we have had similar incidents within the GAA. Doesn’t mean we’re all bigots.
If only we hadn’t been turned over twice by Iceland, we’d have made it to the finals of a tournament for the first time in 22 years.
Even worse, because of our seeding, we could well get a group including Sainsburys AND Asda next time around.
Yes I spotted it too oneill. He dropped the n after Latvia! Latvia is a noun not an adjective of course.
100% Sam and not only that… he then was shameless enought to repeat the mistake .If people really must troll, they should, at the very least, have the decency to use the correct gramaticle constructions.
For the record I don’t regard Ulster rugby or the GAA as sectarian..
Neither do I. But that wasn’t the original point I was making.
‘Gramaticle’, O’Neill?
Pontificating about grammar and then you refer to ‘gramaticle construction’.Oh dear………
I was being ironicale;)
course you were, lol