Both Scotland and England produced good performances and results but in a lacklustre performance Worthington’s Northern Ireland stumbled against bottom of the group Latvia losing 1-0 (a Baird own goal making the defeat more painful). UPDATE Republic of Ireland end up with a 2-2 draw after an injury-time Slovakian goal and Welsh woes continue with a 0-2 home defeat by Germany.
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As supporters, we need to face up to the continued sectarianism from ‘some’ within our support. I don’t think its good enough to try and play it down or hide the facts from everyone. Many on OWC have been open in telling it as they witnessed it last weekend. Let’s be open about our own problems.
“These sectarian problems have been emerging over the last few away trips. A group of us were abused by quite a few members of one NISC because we were wearing Green to the match. We just shook our heads and laughed at them and they duly started singing Billy’s Boysâ€
“There were definitely some “fans” who were there for trouble. They were sectarian, drunk beyond all reason, violent and aggressive. Some of them got exactly what they deserved from the policeâ€
“There is a Large proportion of hoods supporting us and singing sectarian songsâ€
“Quite simply there were far too many d1ckheads in Riga at the weekend. I’ve never seen so many hoods at a match before who were there to cause troubleâ€
“I saw a large minority of our supporters acting like cocks, goading, provoking, swearing loudly, letching, singing ‘UVF’ etc, in fighting. Johnny Adair wannabees swaggering about in Rangers tops….all F*king embarrassingâ€
“there was a lot of unsavoury behaviour from club members as wellâ€
“half the norn iron fans are cabbages no f**k al about football and couldnt drink soup, all they go for is to get drunk and let the whole show down. i have been going away for the last 6 years an i have never meet as many golfballs in my life, golfball is the best word to describe them. cause all you feel like doing is hittin themâ€
Then we have idiots on our own forum threatening Latvians here in Norn Iron.
“couldnt agree more,maybe we should start treating the latvians the same in this country,i work with a lithuanian and he detests themâ€
We really need to confront these bigots and make sure they are not welcome.
Bingo p mc theres a problem and the IFA seem content to bury their head in the sand which is embarrasing.
Alan – again in that post you construct yourself a couple of straw men then proceed to batter them – all the best with that – I’ll not stop you while in flow. However what does interest me is my team – again like Macswiney it is completely transparent that you have an agenda – do we really have a major sectarian incident on our hands here? – minor hooliganism certainly from a minority of supporters – a lesser number again singing the sash (wrong again I agree and would certainly have made uncomfortable listening for any NI Catholics there which is unforgiveable in my opinion from whose participated) – and 5 arseholes lifted (1 of whom was Latvian)- the scale of these incidents (which are commonplace at many away premiership club matches on any given Saturday) are having the detractors quite literally salivating at the mouth with a chance to put the boot in. Yes – we have problems and I have stated my view on Saturdays offenders – I do not need to do so again. As for certain Nationalists trying so hard to create a solid link with rabid anti-Catholic hatred amongst the IFA and the NI supporters with Saturdays dickheadery -
well to be honest there are ulterior motives at work there. However Alan if I thought you had for one minute an open mind on the subject then I would be happy to discuss IFA failings in their Football for All campaign – which is a work in progress remember (and one that has seen the real fans recognised by UEFA for their willingness to confront old attitudes) However the immensely insulting British Lickspittle comment pretty much gives a showing to your true motives on this thread. as for you being ironic with the “Proddy” thing – sure you were….. as for your suggestions about what should have went in the IFA boardroom – you can look up any amount of older NI team threads to see the views of many of the resident NI supporters here (including nmy own)on those points (flags, anthems, stewarding etc) – you may be surprised at what you find – quite frankly though I don’t think your interest goes much further than propaganda value so I don’t think I’ll waste my time with you too much.
>>I have never EVER heard a Protestant refer to themselves as a “Proddie†<<
They do in Scotland Democratic.
I dont have enough interest in soccer (other than PSV) to trawl through many fora? Were my comments about the obvious questions in the IFA not pretty on the ball if not why not? What questions would you be asking if you sat in that boardroom?
Im not saying anything other than the OG on saturday was a “major” incident, im trying to discuss with you how the IFA can apply sport for all?
Fair enough Prince – If yer man says he is from Scotland I will withdraw my comment.
“However Alan if I thought you had for one minute an open mind”
Thats why its a forum and not your job to make a personal evaluation on a person you never met, simply to make a coment on the discussion matter, or not make one atall.
Tis but a simple concept.
Most ulster-scots have scotish links dont we?
Now play the man not the ball democratic, you have been subject turning for sometime now im not prepared to let it go.
How do you implement “sport for all” or do you stick with “the sport for 58%” model?
Ok Alan – many of your comments about the theoretical IFA boardroom meetings were perfectly relevant questions (at this point I was finding the line of discussion quite interesting)- these issues have been discussed so many times and yes it is past time that the IFA dealt with some of them head on – the “never on a Sunday” rule must go in the 21st century – I believe the motion was very only narrowly defeated recently. The stewarding issue for rooting out morons is also a very fair suggestion (although in practice this may get complicated/dangerous for the security staff – however I digress)
Flags and anthems are a more complicated issue for obvious reasons – it is difficult for the majority of NI fans who do hold allegience to GSTQ and their own flag to particpate in discussions about scrapping them as if the were either wrong or sectarian – they are not. However I am personally sympathetic to the plight of those fans alienated by them (for want of a better word) and I personally would lend my support to an agreed neutral flag and anthem – especially if it attracted more Nationalists to watch/support NI – I will not however condemn those supporters (not withstanding the no surrender clowns)as bigots or whatever else for wanting to hear their national anthem while watching their country play (as our Southern counterparts I am sure would agree)- perhaps a Rugby type accomodation could be reached – but then again do you think any of this would overide the Nationalist political principles and objections to the NI team – I remain unconvinced -however that does not detract from those issues that need action now such as the crackdown on those eejits from Saturday – unfortunately it seems that our relative recent success has brought back some of the old guard. (I wonder did they get a refund on their England shirts) I hadn’t previously read some of the comments listed by P MC and admit that they made for uncomfortable reading….
So then after all that by and large we agree!! Funny this little island its like were preset to argue!!
Many nationalists will still not subscribe to IFA after the point which they implement the above agreed points but much like the PSNI after time it will become acceptable to follow IFA.
I would advocate a FAI-IFA amagamation, where the IFA took all of ulster and possibly connacht, and formed on provincial basis, more or less in the same vein as the IRFU. But thats not the discussion, improving soccers profile is in NI, and we agree on the main points, which is by itself positive.
Democratic
Very well put conciliatory sentiments.
>>it is difficult for the majority of NI fans who do hold allegience to GSTQ and their own flag to particpate in discussions about scrapping them as if the were either wrong or sectarian – they are not.<<
On their own they are not but often can be in the way they are used. Perhaps if N.I. fans were convinced to leave these as symbols of the UK and develop/expand on their own identity more. Follow more in the footsteps of Wales and my country Scotland. My father speaks of Scotland fans going to games wearing rangers regalia and happily booing Celtic players in the Scotland strip pre-mid 70′s. Evidence of rangers influence may be witnessed in the scandalously spartan amount of caps awarded to members of the first northern European team to win the European cup……….However I digress;¬) We used to have GSTQ as an anthem also, the point is that if anyone suggested that we have union flags/anthems at Scotland games now it would be murder polis, regardless of religious/political affiliation.
At football training in Australia there was a Belfast Nationalist who used to wear his Norn iron top circa 1982. He used to get slagged rotten but never stopped wearing it, he was happy to support them as well as Ireland and Scotland. I bet there is plenty like him in the north right now who would come out of the woodwork if the IFA and N.I. supporters were seen to be doing the right thing. The kind of sentiments that you express are a good positive start.
Billy, Prince Eoghan
“I think the word is improvement not difference and there is no doubt that NI support was in dire need of improvement”
The particular award was not associated in any way about improvement in suppporters attitudes. It was UEFA endorsed, but that´s not to say that NI fans have not generally improved over the last 7 years.
You both go on to mention that I deny that NI have ever had any problem with the actions of their support. Please can you point to where I have said this, this is just not true.
Why do wish to make something outta nowt, over this minor incident in Riga. Yes five arrests including one Latvian. I heard no sectarian singing in the ground and neither did you guys. There was plenty of Union flags, Ulster flags and indeed St. Patricks crosses. Why where you not offended by the many Ulster Flags on display at the recent Ireland v Italy rugby match at Ravenhill? There was even Union Flags there too.
Prince
You make a good point about flags and regalia in Scotland. If you had ever been to Landsdowne road at an ROI game you would have come across an equal amount of Celtic tops etc. Maybe the ROI fans need to take a good look at their identidy. There was also of course the idiot stood outside Croke Park with the banner “Say Know To Foreign Sports”, while sporting the hooped top of Glasgow Celtic.
The point here is there are many varying ways to express your Ulster identidy. Personally I would like to see an end to the playing of GSTQ, and I think the last time it will be played at an NI match will be the last match in this campaign against Spain. Flags I see less of a problem with as Windsor is awash with Green and White anyway, again personally I would never carry a Union Flag to a game as it is not solely representing Northern Ireland, besides I don´t need a flag of any sort to endorse my Nationality.
I would like to see a new flag for NI which was acceptable to all sides. A St. Patricks cross on a green background with the red hand in the middle would be my choice. This of course would be unacceptable to Nationalists as anything that remotely offers legitamacy to Northern Ireland is offensive to them. Even though they proactively administer government in NI under the supervision of the British constitution
If you read the comments on OWC you will see that the true NI fans are truly embarrassed by the very small amount and tiny minded phillistines that still hang on and give people like mcswiney a reason to live.
Hiya Doc
It is clear that there is plenty of room for manoeuvre on this subject, sometimes it just needs calm unemotional dialogue.
>>You both go on to mention that I deny that NI have ever had any problem with the actions of their support. Please can you point to where I have said this, this is just not true.<<
You were coming across as someone prepared to debate every minor point seemingly to lessen the impact of the fans behaviour perceived or otherwise past and present, thus my earlier contribution. As I’ve mentioned before it is easy to steal the thunder of critics for those intent on moving away from the past, if there is genuine desire.
Funny you should mention Ireland games and Celtic tops, I was in Dublin supporting Scotland with a few pals who would happily cheer both teams. We had to calm down a fellow tartan army member who was berating someone wearing a Celtic top, his crime was wearing team colours at a national game. Of course the guy wearing the Celtic top turned out to be a bemused Ireland fan, it could have led to trouble had we not acted as peacemakers. It is well known that Irish fans are known to wear Celtic tops almost interchangeably with the national strip, how the Scots fan never knew that I’ll never know.
Another similar topic concerns friends of mine. Two Glasgow Italians, probably third generation support Italy. One will support Scotland and the other Italy in the upcoming football clash. Another pal is so immersed in the OO that he has taken to wearing England tops(sacrilege) as well as the usual Linfield and N.I. football tops. He does not support Scotland much to my chagrin for fear of detracting from his Britishness. What really get’s on my nerves is those with similar backgrounds to me, who would support Ireland to Scotland’s exclusion, though happily they are few and far between. I take an occasional interest in Ireland’s fortunes myself, but Scotland is my team.
Prince Eoghan
Your pal who wears an England top, refuses to wear a Scotland top because it ‘detracts from his Britishness’ yet is happy to wear the shirts of Linfield & N. Ireland, is one seriously confused and messed-up individual…as we say in Norn Iron, he really needs to take a big wise-up tablet!
…of course lets not forget that those wearing emerald green N. Ireland tops have had hassle in the past from brain-dead kick-the-pope-ers who think they’re “fenian-lukkin” shirts…
Such f***-wits really deserve our pity so rather than waste our time worrying about them, lets just get on with supporting our fellow-countrymen whether they play for N. Ireland or the Republic…
My sincere apologies for my behaviour last night. I have always enjoyed slugger for the debate but I got wound up by some of the personal insults and really shouldnt have. Very embarrassed to say the least and will take my leave now.
Sorry again Mick et al.
Democratic,
I share your suspicions.
if Garcia is banned how can he post ??
PRINCE EOGHAN
Funny you should mention Ireland games and Celtic tops, I was in Dublin supporting Scotland with a few pals who would happily cheer both teams. We had to calm down a fellow tartan army member who was berating someone wearing a Celtic top, his crime was wearing team colours at a national game. Of course the guy wearing the Celtic top turned out to be a bemused Ireland fan
They wear Celtic tops at rugby internationals, too?
ALAN ANDERSON
I see Alan Anderson failed, when challenged, to offer any evidence for his bizarre statement earlier in the thread.
He claimed that “in the early 1900’s the people of Dublin (protestand [sic] and catholic) were begging for soccer and by all accounts the initiative was with the IFA to provide them with it, the IFA failed … again, because it was stuck in its sectarian quango. The FAI subsequently was forced to leave to provide quality and open games administrationâ€. Yet we know that the IFA staged internationals and cup finals in Dublin and admitted to membership in 1892 the Leinster FA which was responsible for organising and promoting football in Dublin.
>>They wear Celtic tops at rugby internationals, too?< <
Not as far as I am aware willow. It was a football friendly probably about 5 years ago in Dublin. I must admit I wasn't too enamoured with the friendliness of place, but according to the woman who put us up we were just going to the wrong places.
Dissenter
>>he really needs to take a big wise-up tablet!<<
He was recently trying to get a rise out of me(unsuccessfully) by going on about Londonderry this and that. Knowing that he was also an ABOD, I innocently asked why this group is not called the ABOL, needless to say he shut up. Failing that I usually throw the recent SNP win in his face, now that really upsets him. For all that we are quite good pals, although his decorating skills leave a lot to be desired and it was a bit cheeky asking to wear gloves while we put up my wee fella’s Celtic wallpaper.
I think it’s very unfortunate that with the success of Northern Ireland the glory hounds and their sectarian knuckle dragging has returned. As pointed out in a previous thread the IFA have actually taken great measures to attempt to kick out sectarianism. In perticular the procedures Linfield have introduced which really impressed me.
I don’t think it’s fair to tar all Norn Iron fans with the same brush. Many of them have been there through thick and thin. And trust me the thin was very bad. But I do urge the real Northern Ireland fans to do what ever they can to make these Johnny Come Latelys feck off back to whence they came.
I’m just back from Riga, our crowd had a guy from Cork( Norn Irons his second team) & another called Sean( Norn Irons his one & only) from a nationalist background & they both had an amazing time & werent offended by anyone, & I bet some of you on here really hate that, but anyhow…..
“Football fans in; some of them get blocked & act like dickheads shocker!”
Usual suspects above in;”fill Slugger full of made up hypocritical sh*te for no other reason than they hate Northern Ireland shocker!”
I had a great time, hope all of you nay-sayers had a terrible one living in your narrow little minds.
I’ve a good feeling that we’re gonna beat Iceland and the Czechs will bounce the Republic 3-0 Momma told me there’d be days like this!
Wales just hopped the Slavaks 5-2 at home.
Kinda puts our performance last Saturday night into even greater perspective!
…Given we’re 1-0 down already!
Well looks like I won´t be wearing the lederhosen next June.
Desperately unlucky, but you have to take the chances.
Worthington got the tactics a bit wrong particularly with bizarre substituions. Two points from these games would not have been a disaster, but two needless own goals have scuppered that.
We’re also pretty much out.
Great line from Eamonn Dunphy, “Would let him (Stan) drive the train to Cork, Bill?? Would ya?!?”
Sums it up really.
I don’t actually blame Stan. It was a terribly frustrating display, and simply boils down just a lack of a quality in key areas. When we went to ten men it didn’t seem to make much difference: the Czechs always looked like they had a spare man in defense anyway. There was a lethargy or something about the team that was a bit annoying. We definitely lack a Roy Keane or even a Matt Holland that can talk control of the game in the midfield, and last ball in the final third was woeful. We had two absolutely golden chances that a team set on qualification would have buried too – Kevin Doyle’s at the end of the first and Cech’s spill.
For all that it wasn’t a terrible performance: the Czechs had the better of it but weren’t that hot, really, and we had a harsh sending off. 0-0 or 1-1 and you’d have thought it a fair result. Still that would have been no use and the problem was the pressure we put on ourselves by screwing up early on. We need to focus on winning the remaining matches and praying for a decent draw in the WC qualifiers now.
WTF has driving the train to Cork got to do with it?
Dublincentric Dunphy said Stan couldn’t just go from being player to manager. Brady looked shifty, Giles said “I did” and what about erm…Keano?
Dunphy was asked for a prediction before the game. He bottled it.
He played internationals years ago, never played in the Premiership, but reinvents himself every 2 years as an expert with a spell of controversy.
A dictionary definition of a gobshite.
Dunhpy just hates Stan cos he’s a prod!!!!;¬)