And what do you call him…
As a teacher, I am one of those who quickly becomes familiar with the latest trend in baby names. There was a period of years there when no class was complete without several Chloes, Hannahs, Conors and Rebeccas. The class I passed on to a new teacher last June contained multiple ‘Connells’, all with different spellings no less. And then, of course, there are those who go for the more unique Celtic name. (And, incidentally, teachers will also be able to identify those names whose popularity has had its day- in this regard, Seamus would appear to be a name on the wane, if my experience of teaching in Belfast for the better part of a decade is anything to go by.)
It would appear that the Chinese have similarly become more adventurous when selecting baby names, though this example is somewhat extreme.
>> merrie, you can pack it in too!
That’s all I had to say on the P&J part, Mick!!
Over years of London teaching my classes included Wayne Kerr (and Wayne Slade), Tracey Lacey, Cindy Dole – and that’s without getting into the more extreme Afro-Caribbean selections (among which 13yr old, 15-stone Delicate must feature). It becomes surreal when kids get named after supermarket wine labels, however (thank you, Margaux Hemingway?)
As I recall the book, Malcolm Gladwell’s The Tipping Point was interesting on names, how they are “memes”, and how they have positive and negative social aspects.
Full back for Newbridge in the 80′s called Wayne Bow….and the famous twins Justin and Ed Case.
I worked with a Scandinavian called “Eva Lie” For some reason she included her middle name when introducing herself or signing off letters.
Speaking of name changes – I knew a bloke in Newcastle (Co. Down) who changed his name to “W. Axl Rose” – and who insisted on dressing like him, down to the bandana and everything. Got a wee write up in the Sunday Life a lot of years ago.
I wonder if he stuck with it?
Axl Rose?? Blimey…
Still, marginally cooler than that Belfast chap who was in the papers last year who thinks he’s a David Hasselhof lookalike!
Or maybe it’s the same guy?
We met some Dubliners on holiday recently and they were flabbergasted when we told them that,up North, you could (and did) recognise which foot a person dug with by their forename. Very few names cross the divide, the common Bible names, Brian, Paul and surprisingly William.British/Protestants who use Irish names were probably regarded with suspicion by their own side. There seems to be several divisions of names.Firstly, the religious Bernadettes/Jacobs and then the native Eimears and then the ‘rugby fraternity, the Gareths. Next the imports, the Darrens/Natashas and lastly the neo-neos, Fifi/Kylies. The name says more about the parent than the child. RG “Dá mbéinn féin in Airdà Chuan …. a poetic treasure.
Check this out:
http://babynamewizard.com/namevoyager/ It charts the popularity of names (needs Java)
It is strange how many people choose names like Chardonnay and then spell it wrong. You don’t here of many kids called Strongbow or Stolichnaya, do you? Not many Pinot Noirs, either.
PH and lots of Mervyns….which always seems strange to me. When did that cross the Celtic Sea ?
Dewi, is Mervyn a Welsh name? It is completely restricted to the non natives in Ireland.The name Rhys was popular here or Reece as it was spelled and Megan.I am not familiar with other Welsh imports which is strange as you are not far away.
Animus,
There was one famous Strongbow in Irish history… not his given name, right enough!
I shall follow the example set by the the Clintons (Chelsea) and the Beckhams (Boston) and next time Herself presents me with twins we shall name them Leamington Spa and Sutton Colfield.
P.s. I have long held that a girl named Kerry would be overjoyed if only she had a little brother named Cork.
Pancho’s Horse @ 11:10 AM:
Dewi, is Mervyn a Welsh name?
Now here’s an answer I await with considerable expectation (if not expectoration).
Will he acknowledge that Merfyn Frych, King of the Britons, came from Ynys Manaw (i.e. the IoM)? And, therefore, the name is an import from Manx?
However, ain’t it great that we’ve all got so much time to spend on trivia like this? Hasn’t life in Norn Iron got – well – so quiet and provincial? And, in passing, mock the afflicted like “Mary Christmas”.
If all else fails, go to http://www.eadon.com/comment/funnynames.php and snortle.
I have come across some crackers in the course of work:
The ‘Classy’:
Chanterelle
Patrice
The ‘Unique’:
Teao
Jordonna
September
The Absurd:
Cavan
Jean-Luc
Devenish
These names also sound infintely worse when you add the surname – generally much more more local and whole lot less exotic.
I know a guy in Belfast who lost a drunken bet and actually followed through with the name change afterwards.
He is now, legally, Crazyhorse Invincible.
I have a story about a family in rural Ulidia whose surname I will not give. There were 4 brothers Wilbert, Gilbert,Hilbert and Filbert (he was a nut). Their father died and the family were eventually called in to the solicitor’s office for the will reading. In the interim,however, the office was bombed and many papers ruined.What was left of the will stated ‘ I leave all my posessions to my son,?ilbert’ with the first letter missing! Sort that one out!
Malcolm – the Ynys Manaw bit is subject to debate…refences to Manaw could refer to Manaw Gododdin, one of our Scottish brythonic kingdoms…..he was a brython – his Mam was a niece of Hywel Dda our great legislator.
(And I didn’t gwgl any of that…!)
How on earth is it so popular over there ??
play the ball! – edited moderator
Mick Fealty – “Wasn’t me this time.”
Who has the authority to edit posts on this site?
I also find it slightly disturbing to learn that Chris Donnelly is a school-teacher.
However, I suppose this is all part of the process of Shinners turning into the short of people the next generation will regard is incredibly naff.
P&J
Hush now – the grown-ups are trying to have a conversation.
>>In the Northwest at least Mick, the tradition was (and still is to some extent) to name the first male child in a family after the paternal grandfather.<<
We do that as well Joe. My eldest boy is called Owen(eoghan) a variation of my Da John. We also have a Rory(Ruari) people were most surprised when we called our other boy Luke. There are so few Celtic names used in Glasgow, that trend is upwards I’m glad to say, all those years of anglicisation are easy enough to reverse. Weird experience was going to school in Australia with a family of 1st generation Sri Lankan Australians who had an irish great-grandfather. Every one(including cousins) had names like Shane, Sean, Eammon etc.
Gonzo.
That’s a gas if true. I once met a fella at a party who actually said in all seriousness. “My name is Paul, but me mates call me fuckwit”
The problem is that with thousands of languages in the world, even relatively common names can raise smiles in other parts of the world. I’ve taught students called Fanny and Paki and got laughed at in Spain when I said that my sister was called Cara. Nice name in Irish, but as a name “Face” is probably best left to dodgy American kids shows.
Play the ball! – edited moderator
Mick Fealty – “Wasn’t me this time.â€
Who has the authority to edit posts on this site?
Posted by PeaceandJustice on Aug 21, 2007 @ 12:19 PM
Give It A Rest – “Hush now – the grown-ups are trying to have a conversation.”
Chris Donnelly’s friends in the Sinn Fein IRA death squads failed to silence us, so your condescending tone doesn’t matter. I’d love to know what Chris Donnelly teaches the children. ‘Now children, this is a picture of a Unionist. We hate these people. And it was OK to murder them in the past. When you get bigger and have kids, you should name them after the great men who fought for Ireland … Gerry, Martin, Conor, Pat …’.
I worked with an American guy called Randy Bishop.
P&J – we know your opinions, ok? You waste no opportunity in sharing them with us. Whataboutery on a thread about baby names… ffs. You’ve made your point. Now, back to children’s names (not childish name-calling)…
The newest baby name trends are really something. It is unusual for made-up names to become such a hit around the world among parents and parents to be. This site really goes into these trends – Popular Baby names – It will be interesting to see what the school attendance rolls will look like 6 years down the line.
Or the old people’s homes…..hello there Kylie, would you like a nice cup of tea? Biscuit, Dwayne?
I’ve heard there is someone called Tamara Knight in Belfast. Don’t know if it’s true though.
On Jack/John, there are some other weird ones. Why are some Margarets called Peg? Why is William diminutised to Bill?
“Why is William diminutised to Bill?”
Always wondered about this too. Perhaps something to do with its German origin – Wilhelm (with a ‘V’ sound) ? V is kind of close to B as students of Spanish will tell you…
…just pure idle speculation on a Tuesday afternoon. Can you tell my boss is away today?
Had a workmate swore he knew a Dwayne Pipe!
Someone asked why names changed – had anything happened?
Until the Births and Deaths Registration Act 1967 only names in the English language were registered. All who wished to be Séamus and Seán were translated on registration to James and John.
It was only after that that Irish names were accepted.
I have prepared many deeds poll where people have changed their names and there was a template where families could change their names by adding that, in accordance with the custom of the Irish Language, a person’s wife would in future be known as Bean UÃ, male children as Ó and female children as NÃ.
I myself was registered as Patricia and have spent time explaining that i prefer PádraigÃn but often have to complete documents in the name on my birth certificate.
If you check I think you will find that pre 1967 there are many Seáns who are officially John, but post ’67 this is more rare.
PádraigÃn Drinan
From the kid’s point of view, hard to pronounce and hard to spell names are a pain in the butt.
I have worked for several years as a substitute teacher, and calling roll at the beginning of class can be both difficult and traumatic. I feel badly when I mispronounce a kid’s name. Most take it in stride, because they get it all the time, and some will even tell me to just call them T.J. or some other easy to say name.
But others, however, are actually quite offended when I butcher their names, which happens too frequently, especially when I’m faced with an African-American student whose name for me, an old white man, is undeciferable.
I’d likewise have great difficulty with many Irish names, other than the more familiar ones, like Sean, Patrick, or Connor, for example.
Naming a child is a serious obligation, and what may be cute to the parent can be a life-long millstone for the kid.
Try this one dewi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iub6yqJ_fYk
Animus,
“Why are some Margarets called Peg?” This query was of particular interest to me, as my mom is peggy (margaret), so i googled, then googled som more. according to the link below (perhaps Slugger’s Irish speakers could confirm or deny for us?), the Irish for Margaret is “Peig” …
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GENIRE/1999-09/0936664108
Wonderful Joe – but Carrickfergus has a special sadness about it that hits me.
And while we are on. I reckon we need to report Rory to Chastellion or Mitchell cos his proposed pogrom against his own tribe of accountants is a real threat to the peace process…….
I’m surprised no-one has mentioned the fellow from New Zealand who said on his facebook page, that if he could get 100,000 signatories, he and his wife were going to name their expected child ‘Spider Pig’. (after the Simpsons etc. etc)
Well, there was the predicatable uproar, and when his total hit almost 200,000 he had to come clean and admit he was not expecting a child, nor indeed was his partner. He said it was the work of ‘bored geeks.’
Mind you, Spider Pig is right up there with some of the names one comes across occasionally.
PadraigÃn, thanks for that info, it was interesting
Tyrone
I have an Irish name as do my children and all my brothers and sisters so know quite a few but think more older and unusual Irish names are nicer to be slightly different.
There may be some variations in the spelling but if you are proud of your Irish heritage then you should instill these values in your child and give them a traditional Irish name.
What about Finnbarr, Maeve, Aibhinn, Turlough, Senan, Peadar, Lorcan, Paschal (which I love), Aine, Padraigin, Bernadette or Bernadine or just Bern, Maureen, Kathleen, Proinsias (not sure of spelling), Dearbhail, Benedict, Riognach, Fiachra.
I am sure there are more but cant think at the min.
Look up the internet for Irish names – there are some lovely old fashioned ones that I just cant think of.
Good luck too with the new baby – How lovely!!
I don’t think that Paschal, Bernadette or Bernadine or Benedict are traditional Irish names, BOM. The first is an anglicisation of the name of the French philosopher, Pascal, and Bernadette is common in emulation of the French saint and visionary child of Lourdes (Bernadine is simply a twee contrivance from that name). Latin “benedictus” meaning “blessed” and is common also in derivatives in other European languages. the presnt pontiff, Benedictus, is of course Bavarian. But there is no equivalent from the Latin derivative in Irish of which I am aware, though there will be an Irish term that equates to “blessed” I do not have it on my tongue.
p.s. Mubarak is “blessed” in Egyptian. Whether the people of Egypt find President Mubarak to be so I wouldn’t care to speculate.
The name of the Spanish tenor, Placido Domingo, translates as “Peaceful Sunday”. Now couldn’t we all do with a few more of those? And how about a bunch of “Peaceful Saturdaynights” while we’re about it?
The tird saentence should begin, “Benedict is from the Latin “benedictus….”. Something erased in (or prior to) transcription. Apologies.
Have just picked up this thread from last night.
Thanks for the interesting comments, Padraigin, and many others as well.
BOM
Second baby arrived a fortnight ago, thanks. We chose a name which is actually of English origin, but I’ll not name him here as it will likely only invite comment from the sick trolls at work.
To the deranged few who spewed their bile on this thread, I would merely contend you do yourself a disservice with your comments, and I’m hardly surprised you choose to hide behind nom de plumes.
I sympathise with the substitute teacher regarding roll call difficulties. I had a similar problem during my teaching practice when I inadvertently embarassed a lad by mispronouncing his surname and amusing the rest of the class- not a good start to my first lesson.
When I see him lining out for Antrim these days it brings back that moment.
Sorry Rory u are right the names mentioned are not all necessarily Irish but they are traditional names for those who practice the Catholic religion in Ireland and elsewhere so this is why they are included in my suggested list. I dont think I said that names should always be Irish – I said they should be as unique as possible – I just happen to prefer Irish names for my own children but wouldnt rule out using a Latin or French name or the Pope’s name.
Surely any name would be better than Chardonnay or Princess Timai!?
Anyway congrats Chris on the new baby – boy and girl or two boys? I am sure the name is a nice one and hope all is well!!
I should add to my previous thread that like it or not heritage and culture go hand in hand with religion which is why traditional Catholic names such as Paschal or Benedict or John Paul or Bernadette or Mary et al are often used by Irish men and women to name their children. They may not derive directly from anything Irish but they are common in Ireland among Irish families.
Let that be a lesson to you, A ChrÃostóir. Be careful not to raise such a controversial subject again.Do you really hold up pictures of Unionists to your pupils?
I was down in Kilkenny about 2 weeks ago for my mother’s birthday. I brought my 3 reprobates with me for the weekend, to experience some southern culture for a change.
One of my daughters really took the piss out of the fact that every other person she met was named Mary. My mother was one of 20 children, so I have one cousin in each family called Mary and almost without exception her brothers married Mary.
Some crack indeed!! Makes you lonely for a Chardonnay or two.
“Some crack indeed!! Makes you lonely for a Chardonnay or two.”
Crack and/or chardonnay is what you’d need to find culture in Kilkenny…Back to the names, though, I look forward to seeing more poeple follow the Beckhams and name children after where they were conceived. I foresee a rash of Nissan Primeras and Subaru Imprezas hitting our classrooms. Mind you, in my day they would probably have been called “Handball Alley”. And have I mentioned that I once went out with a girl called Annette Curtin?
Donnacha – didn’t you mean Eileen Dover ?
Hah, no but her friend was called Teresa Green. Ah she was only an orchardist’s daughter….etc
Only a true gombeen ultra nat would boast about giving a child an ‘English’ name. This nonsense doesn’t occur to normal Irish people, Mr Donnelly. As a ‘Free Stater’, I am so, so relieved that your sort were so wholeheartedly rejected by the Irish electorate this year.