Far too soon to say..
UTV records some of the events of the first 100 days of the “indigenous” deal.. and the First Minister, the DUP’s Ian Paisley, has taken the opportunity to talk to his flock.. Meanwhile the BBC’s Martina Purdy notes that, in preparation for some later reports, she has already interviewed Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams “who sounded more negative than positive at first”.. ANYhoo… always willing to help, I can point out again that the quoted “someone” was, in fact, Zhou Enlai. Adds One of those later reports I mentioned..
Paisley is just loving this, the old codger.
Still I can’t help but think what does he know that we don’t.
Hasn’t he already told us what he knows? That the Plan B presented to him by Tony was totally unpalatable.
“The Democratic Unionist Party is to block any bid to have an Irish Language Act passed in the Northern Ireland Assembly, according to a letter signed by party leader the Rev Ian Paisley.”
No matter what the content of said Act – strange.
JoeCanuck
That wouldnt have him smiling.
It would if the present arrangement makes him think that he is N.I.’s political as well as religious saviour.
So – how would you rate the ministers? Here is my spot rating:
Ian/Martin (FM/DFM): Good – excellent image for NI
Peter Robinson (Finance): Good – liked the way he was prepared to slap everyone down for getting giddy over spending.
Conor Murphy (Reg. Devel.): Average – removed water charges, probably
Alene Foster (Environment): Average – reasonable response to floods
Nigel Dodds (Enterprise): Average – economy seems good.
Edwin Poots (Culture): Good – has met challenges
Michelle Gildernew (Agri.): Good – kept export ban away and averted financial crisis
Margaret Ritchie (Social Dev.): Good – faced off UDA
Caitriona Ruane (Education): Poor – nothing on 11+ and facing a strike
Reg Empey (Employment): Poor – dithering
MIchael McGimpsey (Health): Average – low profile
I notice DK that Peter Robinson’s slapdown of overspending did not include the additional £5M he signed off on to provide no-questions-asked ex-gratia payments to any who alleged to have suffered even minimal property damage as a result of recent wet weather conditions.
In order to assist desperate householders, crippled by the cost of drying out slightly damp mops, he generously arranged for the dosh to be collected at a leisure centre on production of a utility bill and photo ID.
Cetainly the more than 350 recipients from his East Belfast constituency will have reason to praise the minister’s willingness to temper hardheadedness with bounteous mercy.
DK
Fait assessment – although for some reason I have a soft spot for Poots and Gildernew.
Joe
Well he always thought he was the saviour…
From what I hear there never was a real Plan B created at all but it was a useful stick.
How do you rate the present ministers compared to their previous British counterparts?
I don’t expect the Irish Language Act to be implemented unless there is another side deal.
Empty heads McGuinness and Adams obtained no guarantees of for the Irish Language pre and post St Andrews and as usual the doc and co have left them in the halfpenny spot begging for crumbs…
CTN
I think you will find that if storomont doesn’t pass it then Whitehall will and then simply impose it on northern Ireland
The question is which of the wee docs pet projects will the shinners kill in retaliation
Its called a mutual veto for a reason
DK,
I would seriously down rate McGimpsey. He has put on hold (for yet more consultation) plans to abolish the four health boards and replace them with one (a fairly sensible idea) whilst at the same time continuing with the greatly reduced number of trusts which has essentially resulted in a take over of a number of trusts by others and created the largest health trust in the UK (Belfast).
On Paisley we are always told Plan B was too awful to imagine. So Paisley sold out most if not all the DUP committments because he was scared of the alternative. That is not the Paisley of the last 30 plus years. Age must truly have wearied him or (more likely) the lust for power excited him (or maybe it is the new hat).
“if storomont doesn’t pass it then Whitehall will”
Sean
It’s a devolved matter.
Whitehall, or even the Houses of Parliament, can’t legislate on it.
Turgon,
“That is not the Paisley of the last 30 plus years. Age must truly have wearied him or (more likely) the lust for power excited him (or maybe it is the new hat).”
I used to believe it was the lust for power. Lately though I keep thinking that he may well be putting his house in order. I won’t go so far as to say he’s finally realized the error of his ways, but that he imagines by being decent for a change he can earn brownie points with his deity — whoever or whatever that may be.
Pete – I know it’s getting boring but for the life of me I can’t see how an ILA can be develved when it could effect UK & NI wide institutions like the DVLA fr’instance. How can Stormont legislate for them ?
Develved ? – devolved sorry
Dewi
You mean like Welsh, for example..
DK, that’s a very concise and accurate assessment of the talents in our government. The Ian/Martin thing has all been very positive. At the same time though, the executive is very much in a honeymoon. Soon the issue of taxation (water charges and rates) will come up again. We will have to pay our way, and our ministers are going to have some tough decisions to make.
The Irish Language Act thing is bollocks and needs to die, really quickly. That discussion is distracting us from more serious matters in the real world, such as devolving policing and justice powers quickly.
Pete B
I will bow to your superior knowledge of the machinations of devolved government, but having witnessed the machinations of the british government I would be purely surprised if they havent left a back door open to pull the levers of power in the direction they want
Infact its my GUESS that this is exactly why paisley has issued this statement. He knows he won’t have to back down and when the irish languages act is imposed on northern Ireland and he will be able to stump up to the pulpit and rail away at the governments arbitrary rule of the six counties.
This would fit nicely into many peoples theory that he has become an Ulster Nationalist as opposed to a unionist
Sean
Don’t bother guessing.
The Sewel Convention is clear. And the previous Secretary of State was clearer..
Pete
Sorry but accepting the word of a politician or a government for that matter is at best naieve. Especially the EX-secretary of state.
I have made my prediction and you have made yours lets let the months play out and see what comes.
I say at best paisley abstains from voting or using his veto and at worst has a road to damascus conversion. But I will bet 20 pounds this time next year you have a ILA
Sean
Your lack of understanding of the Sewel Convention, what it actually means, is clear – not to mention what constrictions are faced by a politician speaking in the House.
Your prediction of an ILA is irrelevant in those circumstances as it doesn’t rely on the statements quoted but on a potential change in stance by the DUP – ie outside of the machinations of central government.
Pete – but how do u get your driving license in gaelic unless it’s a westminster act ?
Pete
then accept my wager and be done with it I have already bowed to your superior knowledge on the way government is supposed to work.
I just dont accept many governments are good at keeping their word nor are they particularily inclined to follow the rules they themselves legislated
Dewi
How do you get your driving licence in Welsh?
Sean
If you bow to my “superior knowledge on the way government is supposed to work” then you should understand the point I’ve been making in regard to the ILA and any legislation in that area being entirely dependent on a change in attitude from the DUP.
I do understand your point Pete and I am merely putting my point forward that paisley knows full well there is an ILA coming one way or another so he has positioned himself to play the poor put upon leader of unionism forced by London into begrudgingly accepting an ILA. Should play huge with the hard line voters all the way through to the soft UUP voters. Either that or he will have to back down and eat a lot of crow, Me I kinda hope for this result but I am a bit of a mean prick
If I am wrong its a free 20 for you, payable in cash or donation to charity your choice. Me if I win give 20 pounds to the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children in your name as the tax receipt will do me no good and any chance to take a penny away from the government, any government, is Okay with me.
the wager is 20 pounds that by August 16, 2008 there will be in place an ILA
“paisley knows full well there is an ILA coming one way or another”
Evidence that you don’t, actually, understand at all, Sean.
“Certainly the more than 350 recipients from his East Belfast constituency will have reason to praise the minister’s willingness to temper hardheadedness with bounteous mercy.”
Do I detect a slight note of cynicism here Rory?
I have a Welsh driving licence – (Trwydded Yrru) and also did my driving test in Welsh. Can’t see how u can get Gaelic equivalent without UK legislation.
No Pete I do understand your point I just fundamentally disagree with it
*shakes head*
Do I detect a slight note of cynicism here Rory?
I don’t know, Joe. Do you? You surely know yourself best.
It’s not really cynicism it is more a quiet acceptance of social reality. Politicians are corrupt as a matter of their function within social democracy much as lawyers and journalists have a higher calling as professional liars. Now don’t get me wrong, this is not me jumping on a moral high horse – most, if not all men lie – I do it myself from from time to time- but I simply don’t have the skills necessary to be a professional liar as is necessary in these two callings, and pretty helpful for politicians who often these days serve their apprenticeship in law or journalism.
Any way, not to worry, I have had my daughter understand from that early age when she first asked, “Who can I marry, daddy?” and I replied, “Why, darling, you are a free soul. You may marry anyone you choose, but beware of politicians, lawyers and journalists, for lying is the mainstay of their very liveliehood”.
With a bit of luck she’ll fall for a handsome Polish plumber.
so he has positioned himself to play the poor put upon leader of unionism forced by London into begrudgingly accepting an ILA.
It’s insane. Republicans so frickin’ desperate to have their goddam driving licenses in Irish such that they will appeal to the British government (who will obviously extract something in return) in order to get it – right over the heads of the locally elected politicians here in Ireland.
[received my new British passport the other day. Unionists will not be pleased .. the front page includes a description of it in Gaelic!]
“It’s insane. Republicans so frickin’ desperate to have their goddam driving licenses in Irish such that they will appeal to the British government (who will obviously extract something in return) in order to get it”
And you know that what the British Gov will get in exchange will be far more meaningful than a few bits of translation that no-one will use. Although it is hard to think of what there is left for Republicans to give up – demands for investigations into collusion maybe?
I know I’m getting a little obsessive on this and will stop after this. The point is purely technical. Our Welsh Language Act is a Westminster measure – the reason is simply that it places duties on UK & NI wide institutions like the DVLA fr’instance.
Despite Pete’s views on it being a devolved matter I can’t see Stormont having powers over such bodies.
Joseph – Scots Gaelic though ?
Fair enough Rory.
It was an unusual response for a Finance Minister to pay up right away and I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Hopefully there will be a wee bit of analysis done to see if there were any significant amount of greedy buggers who would preclude such a thing happening in the future.
Pretty accurate assessment on our politicians performance in Government by DK. Would have to agree that Doc&Marty look super confident and Peter is demonstrating the control needed for a Finance Minister. On the other Minister’s it would seem Poots is prepared to face up to the hard issues and Gildernew has done better than I expected. The rest are just ticking over.
Comrade Stalin
It’s insane. Republicans so frickin’ desperate to have their goddam driving licenses in Irish such that they will appeal to the British government (who will obviously extract something in return) in order to get it – right over the heads of the locally elected politicians here in Ireland.
The deal has already been done and what extracting that happened has already happened. Its called the St. Andrews agreement and your beloved leader has long ago signed off on it
Sean while you are bowing to Pete I will remind you that I stated a new ILA could be imposed by way of a another “side deal” similar to St Andrews proportions.
The double veto you mentioned would be incongruous here as this new act would be imposed by Westminister.
Better negotiators than McGuinness would have obtained this act for certain when the IRA’s arsenal was cashed in rather than leave more battles and uncertainty ahead.
I imagine stal’s passport has a reference in Scots gaelic as the ILA has not even been brought into the assembly for debate yet by Pootsy.
I’d advise wannabe punters to hold of with the betting c’mons as this site is not authorised for mediumship in that regard.
Sean,
I seem to be agreeing with you on a lot of things recently which is really very worrying.
I agree with Pete that the ILA can be easily blocked by a DUP veto. Remember, however, whatever happens Westminister is still soverign and no legislation passed in Westminister can tie it from further contradictory changes.
As such if Westminister imposed such legislation what could the DUP do?
As CTN suggests a further side deal could be done by the government if it deemed it expedient.
Also of course if the ILA was deemed a human right then the House of Lords could impose such a thing.
An ILA via Westminister let alone the House of Lords would have a certain irony for republicans.
I am not a lawyer and could be wrong but I think the above is correct.
What gfives you the impresion paisley wants another side deal. He WANTS to play the martyr for votes, this might well be the final card in his deck for destroying the UUP for good
You are reading the game well Turg.
Of course a clever provo could wind up unionism about the act- make them look ungenerous in refusing it- then avail of the EU recommendation that Irish, Scots Gaelic Welsh and Cornish are protected within UK jurisdiction, then try and force it through the back door in Westminister.
A complicated journey perhaps and one that does not guarantee the proposed act resulting in Irish sign posts inter alia but one wonders have Dumb and Dumber thought of this since they didn’t manage to pin the ILA down at Good Friday or St Andrews.
It would be a good opportunity for them to purge some of that recently more highlighted imbecility…
Sean- What makes you think that I think Paisley would want another side deal?
Side deals between the provies and Brown don’t have to include another party.
Another side deal is necessary for an ILA to be implemented as the DUP will block this one through the assembly.
As for Paisley’s martyr pitch- he doesn’t look like much of a martyr to me in fact he looks likes he’s won the lotto and just can’t stop smiling everywere he goes!
CTN,
I wonder if Adams and McGuiness have already got an outline side deal re ILA. By conceeding it at St. Andrew’s they may have gained someting else or avoided something they did not want.
Then they can have a nice campaign re ILA when they have exhausted collusion for a while just as they have temporarily given up on unionist engagement. (remember all those republican leaders and indeed posters here a few months ago telling us how important unionist engagement was).
When they fail to get an ILA from Paisley they can denounce him a bit proving that they have not gone soft and finally get their ILA from Westminister or House of Lords.
The person / group who could loose in this is Paisley / DUP who would look as if they could not prevent ILA. Though of course having it imposed would look nothing like as bad as accepting it spontaneously.
Turg- these guys are totally incompetent but in order to strengthen their weakening standing within republicanism it is possible that the brits may impose an Irish Language act of sorts to make them more palatable to their hungry grass roots.
Posted by CTN on Aug 16, 2007 @ 12:43 PM
Better negotiators than McGuinness would have obtained this act for certain when the IRA’s arsenal was cashed in rather than leave more battles and uncertainty ahead.
I suspect Marty Mc G couldn’t give a shit about the ILA.
Ctn
Yeah paisley is grinning like a cheshire cat…. while hes busy groveling to marty about not vetoing his press releases
Wow! what a difference a vetoed press release makes when you have the IRA disarmed, disbanded and humiliated, the new British Army 3?th Infantry’s Irish Brigade, First Ministers office- where you can veto everything including the meaningless cross border bodies, SF grovelling on the PSNI boards looking for crumbs of change- but above all British rule guaranteed for generations in good old Stormont complete with Union Jacks aflying over super provie marty’s office and statue of Carson as implacable as Micelle Gildernew’s determination to use the term “Northern Ireland” ad nausem in spite of its repugnance to her colleagues Ruane and Murphy.
What a shambles the provos truly are….