Sinn Fein still struggling with partition…
In An Phoblacht, Eoin O’Broin pinpoints at least three problems for Sinn Fein the wake of the last election, the poor media performance from Adams, policy confusion, and positioning difficulties in the very differently grammared southern polity:
Update: Mícheál Mac Donncha’s analysis from last week.
A substantial reduction in negative media coverage coupled with significant progress in the peace process ensured that on television and radio, in the papers and on the doors, we were involved in policy debates about the economy, taxation, health, housing and crime.On all of these areas we have strong, radical, left-of- centre republican positions. However, we clearly failed to defend these positions effectively. The leaders debate on RTÉ was just one of a number of interviews post Ard Fheis in which senior party spokespersons appeared weak and uncomfortable with our policy positions.
Our attempt to avoid the issue of taxation was seen by the media for what it was: an exercise in evasion. The pre-election abandonment of our policies on corporation tax, capital gains tax and a 50% upper band made us appear inconsistent to many, irrespective of their actual view on the policy.
More importantly, it also alienated left-of-centre voters, who chose instead left independents such as Brid Smyth and Joan Collins, almost costing Aengus Ó Snodaigh his seat. The centre ground is a crowded political place. Sinn Féin does not belong there and should not be in the business of trading fundamental redistributive policies in the hope of short-term electoral gain. That’s a kind of politics that we should leave to Fianna Fáil.
The real difficulty is the apparent fiscal stranglehold British ministers seem to have left for their local Sinn Fein counterparts. The (albeit forced) actions of ministers in Northern Ireland are hardly compatible with a left wing identity in the Republic.
Partition may be sufficiently strong to demand two approaches north and south, but it also porous enough for the populations north and south to see where policy doesn’t join up.
Sinn Fein are struggling FULL STOP. The leadership is so full of EGGOISTS they think steam rollering everything is the way to be successful, just like Mr McElduf and the wearing jackets in the Assembly Chamber. If they want to be treated as serious politicians they need to focus more interest on Bread & Butter Issues.
“Stop spinning. You lost a seat; or looked at alternatively, you lost a fifth of your seats. In politics, if you’re not going up, you’re going down, and given the recent historic decisions taken by SF and the IRA, you and everyone else expected you to do much better. Much better. “
indeed the Shinners would have like to have done better. My point being that although SF didn’t do as well as they would have liked, neither did Labour, Greens or the PDs. However there isn’t as much debate about the losses for these three party’s in comparison to SF.
While that’s almost understandable on this site “Notes on NI politics and culture†as SF also have a very large presence in NI, the other three parties do affect NI. All four of these parties aren’t reported in the same manner by the Dublin media (and it was a Dail election) although they had the same result or, SF had the less disappointing result but are under more scrutiny for this… why ?
“Ach shite, why do I care, SF insider lives in denial, I should be happy.â€
I’ve never been an insider nor a SF voter; I don’t know whether to be insulted or grateful that I’d be considered an insider. !?!? On this thread I’d take the position of an anti-media-ite regardless of party. Don’t get so he’t-up using language – it takes from your postings.
“What anyone hopes for or not is irrelevant; facts are facts.â€
The facts are being manipulated… did Gerry do so badly in the debate whereby M. Fealty would change his initial viewpoint? I don’t think so. Did SF do the worst out of the 4 parties whereby they are the one in four most discussed by the media? Again I don’t think so. But the columnists still write about the ‘crushing defeat of SF’ and how they are limited to 4/5 seats. I don’t think they paid as much attention to the UUP who are now down to just one seat at Wminster.
“There is no sign of a split happening any time soonâ€
but the media will still write columns and columns of print aiming for the self fulfilling prophecy.
Call it a split, detraction or whatever but the cream of Dublin SF including its Dublin organiser, Dublin based National Organiser and Tallaght Cumman Chairperson- (the cumman which failed to re-elect Sean Crowe) amongst others founded a purely Dublin based campaigns group called EÃrigà in April ’06- they received so many recruits from SF they became an All-Ireland campaigns group earlier this year.
Still the recruits came and one week before the election they became a political party.
They now have two political prisoners after an anti-Iraq war demo and are running functions for the duo in SF’s stomping ground of West Belfast.
More ominously for SF the group contains Mary Lou’s sister (also ex SF)…
“My point being that although SF didn’t do as well as they would have liked, neither did Labour, Greens or the PDs. However there isn’t as much debate about the losses for these three party’s in comparison to SF.”
Did the other three parties run about boasting that they would double or even treble their number of TDs ?
In fairness Cru McDowell bleated out something similar- probably on a high after punching Adams into a coma on Prime Time.
How the mighty took the electorate for granted and fell…
[i]More ominously for SF the group contains Mary Lou’s sister (also ex SF)…[/i]
Ah no, please don’t tell us Mary Lou has a sister.
CTN “probably on a high after punching Adams into a coma on Prime Time. “
Wishful thinking on your part or do you just believe everything you read in the papers… if you can’t beat the opposition in the elections you just insult them continually – money well spent on your education !?!?
well hello “Ah no, please don’t tell us Mary Lou has a sister. “
My isn’t that high-brow of you… slightly above the graffiti on a wall.
Joining this one late!
I am delighted to see someone in the Provisional Movement has actually stopped to take stock and realise that the leadership has gone to hell in a handcart.
The PR machine used to steamroller things into place in the occupied 6 Counties is of no interest to the Celtic Tiger Mob south of the border.
Does this mean Eoin O’Broin may lead a challenge to the bearded monster in the future or is it just Provo spin on Counterspin?
UI not being forwarded is it lads?
They do not care about wee down trodden chuckies from West Belfast who have NOTHING to order their everyday existence in capitalist culture.
[i]slightly above the graffiti on a wall.[/i]
What graffiti on the wall? There’s no graffiti on any walls anymore. You painted political slogans over with artsy fartsy muriels as quick as you painted over your old beliefs with newer shinier brighter ones.
Love
Low Brow
Always fun to see what one can find in AP/RN.
from the directoress of Unionist Outreach
“Unionists have initially been attracted to the Shared Future framework because it appears to undermine funding flowing into the most deprived areas, the majority of which are Catholic/nationalist,†says Martina. ”
How to win friends and influence people
http://www.anphoblacht.com/news/detail/19376
Hi Anon,
Dunno if ya seen it yourself- but I thought the Mac stuffed him- big time!!
Ya have to be fair- IMHO the consensus out there amongst Joe and Jane Soap reflects whats in the papers.
My friends and relatives brought this subject up before I did opining the same.
As for opposition- as a political neutral who lent SF a high preference I have no “wishful thinking” just an honest opinion to offer…
Another wonderful one from AP/RN – Joanne Spain, pictured with …. Ipod – doing some sucking up to HQ – It wasn’t Head Office’s fault, the voters need educating!
“Incidentally, I met both BrÃd Smith and Joan Collins in a radio debate during the campaign. When I brought up the Hunger Strikers and the presenter – as they are wont to do – subsequently brought up Jerry McCabe, both women turned on me. If they are an example of the candidates that left voters turned to then I think we need to question our education of voters, not our policies. ”
http://www.anphoblacht.com/news/detail/19473
Hey Cru- Maybe she’d Adams’ prime time script on her ipod!
I wonder who educated him before that flop?
Education indeed- tut tut!
That leadership driven centrist line I predicted didn’t take long coming. Head in the sand and back to chasing centrist votes over radicalising and Republicanising voters will be the order of the day.
Spain also glosses over the fact McDonald was previously a candidate in Dublin West 2002 taking 8% of the vote (dropped to 4% this time) preferring to talk of a new candidate in Dublin Central. Trying to drop her into a ‘safe’ seat ended up damaging SF in two constituencies.
O’Broin and others will be allowed a brief releasing of steam and then be expected to join the ‘leaderhip’ in a rush to the centre so dear to their hearts.
The only question will be: do O’Broin and others of the left have a breaking point? Those who don’t do centrist, catholic, ultra-nationalism really have no reason to be anywhere near ‘modern’ SF.
Goodness, where is SuperSoupy now? He sure crowed about the disappearing dissidents in the wake of the northern election. And where is he now?
For what is a man, what has he got?
If not himself, then he has naught.
To say the things he truly feels;
And not the words of one who kneels.
The record shows I took the blows -
And did it my way!
So the Shinners should be out there radicalising and republicanising voters, eh?
In the 3rd or is it 2nd richest country in the EU?
What do we want? Latte Frippa
When do we want it? Now!
O’Broin has added his article to Indymedia, the discussion is very different to here.
No matter how poor anyone may be, even if they once thought SF were their only hope, whilst SF have no coherent economic policy, come across vague and evasive those working class ex SF voters will continue to abandon them.
Wearing hats and sitting between two stools fools very few…
That link
For me, the pivotal moment of the Adams debate was when he announced that he was going to discuss “a social issue on which the Government were not doing enough”, or words to that effect. Cue pause for effect…….”Drugs.”
I sat there stunned that he’d had the arrogance to bring the subject up in such a high-handed way, thinking, “Who’s going to say it?”
It was McDowell in the end, as bluntly as he could have. Did Adams really think he was in a position to get stuck into that one as an aggressor? The other guys always had the nuclear option on him on that topic and if I was him I’d have done my best to keep it off the agenda, not bring it up.
The total lack of awareness that voter opinion in the South is not sympathetic to terrorism and violence, let alone collusion with vicious narco-terrorists who are running an international drug market, says a lot about the problems in SFs perspective.
Here in the North, there may be a general consensus amongst SF supporters that such activities are acceptable since they’re in a “good cause”, but the voters in the South are not going to buy that. They don’t need drug money to keep themselves afloat, and they are not about to move en masse in support of a group who ally themselves with the producers of what Adams described himself as hard drugs that do immeasurable damage to our society.
It was a stunning piece of short-sightedness that may well have set SF back by years in the South. It also illustrates the fundamental differences between the electoral environments in the North and the South. The game-plan that has served SF so well here is not only of no assistance, it is a positive hindrance to their attempts to gain serious standing as an all-Ireland party.
It remains to be seen whether they will realise that in time, and find a path which limits the damage they have done already, and enables them to retain their support in the North while reaching out to voters in the South as a real viable political organisation with a realistic plan for Ireland’s future.
Eoin O’Broin has always been one of the most impressive figures within Sinn Féin. He transfprmed the party at Queens a few years ago and brought a lot of young people on board, stressing to them the true meaning of modern republicanism.
His Left Republican Review magazine, which seems to have disappeared lately, was a great vehicle for constructive debate. it’s about time Sinn Fein members like Eoin came faorwd like this. It has always been done in private party meetings but doing it in public like this is more more effective.
Annonymous, the only person, site, paper, media outlet that thuoght Adams did well in the debate was Mick. Even the majority of shinners recognise he had been at best poor.
It’s not evidence of some anti SF agenda, it’s the reality.
As for a wider anti-SF media agenda and disproportionate coverage, well is there any part out their that is so smug, so self rightousness, so patronising, so utterly unaware of how others percive them? they’ve had there GIRUY moment comming for a long time.
They also still have lingering that little extra terrorist chic over the run of the mill parties.
For what is worth I thought Adams performance on that occassion was indifferent.
The previous one for RTE -filmed in Belfast during the Assembly elections revealed Admas as a patronising so and so – maybe some of the Southern electorate saw this programme and came to that conculsion too
Elvis parker Thank you for your honesty, and that coming from a unionist viewpoint
Jocky “ Even the majority of shinners recognise he had been at best poor. “
and you know this because you spoke with a sizeable number of Shinners ? and gleaned this more-than-50% from the conversations? How many Shinners do you speak to frequent basis ? Did you speak to them about their party leaders debate on RTE – how many of them? I just don’t believe you.
“… well is there any party out there that is so smug, so self rightousness, so patronising, so utterly unaware of how others percive them? …â€
…you have to be, I mean have to be, talking about the PDs
anonymous, yeah I conducted my own independent phone survey of 1000 random SF voters. Just read any thread on here re the debate, even Mick started a thread noting how his view was out of sync with pretty much everyone elses.
Poor, indefferent, take your pick, or there is, less than good, mediocore, below par.
Shame they don’t have the American style blanket who won polls on all the TV shows after.
“…read any thread on here re the debate…â€
aren’t you proving my point… those with an anti-SF agenda post to this forum to create opinion… you seem to develop your opinion based on the postings to this site… therefore you form an anti-SF viewpoint based on the unionist contributors postings to this site.
“Poor, indefferent, take your pick, or there is, less than good, mediocore, below par.â€
Exactly, I’m in total agreement with you, I could have written the very same as you BUT ….so were the others… Rabbitte & Gormley were as bad as Gerry… McDowell was just his usual obnoxious self. Gerry was equally as bad as the Labour and/or Greens leaders and less unappealing as the PDs leader but there’s fook all written about these!! Bertie came across well but Inda was a disaster – what written about the FG leader three weeks later?
Get over it… if you don’t like the Shinners then stop posting about Gerry & Co.
care to comment on my…
“… well is there any party out there that is so smug, so self rightousness, so patronising, so utterly unaware of how others percive them? …â€
…you have to be, I mean have to be, talking about the PDs
“To SF’s credit, they’ve helped to stop the shootings and bombings.â€
To Fred West’s credit, there have been a lot less girls murdered and buried under cellars recently.
Gerry Luvs Castro,
I thought the UVF / LVF killed Lisa Dorrian ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/4594961.stm
I think Conor Murphy has certainly strengths but just can’t see him as next leader of Sinn Féin. Too limited in his appeal outside the traditional voter base in the 26 counties.
PS I wouldn’t agree that Mary Lou is not still a lead contender for leadership. Dublin Central was always going to be a long shot and realistically a lot of Sinn Féin people thought it would take two elections to win; possibly the mistake was to select such a good candidate for such a risky seat. Mary Lou is an MEP and did well in the Euro election so there is no question over her broad vote getting credentials.
“Mary Lou is an MEP and did well in the Euro election so there is no question over her broad vote getting credentials.”
I’ll bet you were saying “Sean Crowe is a sitting TD and topped the polls at the 2002 election so there is no question over his vote getting credentials” on may 23th dublinsfsupporter.
dublinsfsupporter
You wouldn’t happen to be Mary Lou or a member of the family would you??
Any talk of a future leader is premature in the extreme however itshould be remembered that it is the members who will decide any future party leader, not some future voter base.
Too limited in his appeal outside the traditional voter base in the 26 counties
Having appeal inside our traditional voter place is a good place to start.
Conor, apart from being the MP for Newry/Armagh, is also the Minister for Regional Development in the North and will sit on the All-Ireland ministerial council.
He’s known and respected by Republicans all over this country.
Dublin Central was always going to be a long shot
What utter nonsense! This sort of ostrich approach will not do us any favours.
We came within 100 votes the last time, if you call that a long shot then I suggest you are very naive.
realistically a lot of Sinn Féin people thought it would take two elections to win
LOL
possibly the mistake was to select such a good candidate for such a risky seat
It was the wrong constituency for Mary lou, she did everything she could but it just wasn’t the right area for her to stand in.
Doesn’t matter were you put M.L. if grizzler is gonna goof it up on economics, internally, externally and eternally…
”I thought the UVF / LVF killed Lisa Dorrian ?”
No idea Anonymous, but I know virtually nobody voted for them.
It will be interesting to see what happens June 2009. Obviously SF were not planning to stand Mary Lou – but after her failure to capture a seat in the DaÃl, it leaves them with problems.
She obviously doesn’t want to be an MEP. Thing is – will the people of the ROI want her to be an MEP ? Would she meet the same fate as Sean Crowe ?
There in it big time there Cru- like SF in general she is carrying a loser tag into the ’09 election.
She will also be deprived of all those nordie election workers who will be helping Pearse Doc and Barby de broon.
Considering the likelyhood of leftist opposition in the shape of Richard Boyd Barrett and further party worker resignations- she might just bite it….
Check out this article in today’s sindo-
BY JIM CUSACK
“GERRY ADAMS is coming under open criticism from the southern wing of Sinn Fein about the direction of the North-based leadership.
Articles criticising the performance and decision-making of “senior figures” over the dismal Sinn Fein performances in the general election have appeared for two weeks in a row in the Dublin-produced Sinn Fein weekly paper, An Phoblacht.
The party’s disastrous performance in Dublin, where their vote fell from 60,895 in the 2004 European election to 34,282 – a drop of 46 per cent – has caused consternation among the mainly young hopefuls, who are blaming the northerners who controlled the campaign.
The party’s candidate in Dun Laoghaire, Eoin O Broin, who managed only 1,292 votes, compared to 2,159 in the last general election, said: “The leaders’ debate on RTE was just one of a number of interviews, post-ard fheis, in which senior party spokespersons appeared weak and uncomfortable with our policy positions.”
He said the pre-election abandonment of the party’s tax policies “alienated left-of-centre voters, who chose instead left independents, almost costing Aengus O Snodaigh his seat”.
Dublin party organiser Justin Moran said: “To summarily announce, as senior party figures did, that those policies no longer exist, without identifying alternative sources of funding or consulting with the party’s members, is both irresponsible and overrides the party’s decision-making structures.”"
I knew they got a black eye- but 46%!
when are the next council elections due ?
’09
Should be fun CTN – especially if Bertie can hold the economy together.
They’re dead meat Cru, if they don’t get their act together.
I want to see a united Ireland- it won’t happen tomorrow morning but what has passed for republicanism since Michael Collins was shot has been abysmal- yes very many brave republicans made the ultimate sacrifice but their war with Britain has been fought on an all or nothing platform with many vindictive civilian murders and acts of reprehensible carelessness.
Adams changed some of that but his team-building has been woeful.
Changing that economic policy mid campaign and then goofin up publicly on the back of an alleged raging monster that was up until recently supposedly the republican family in Dublin was too much for many SF members and supporters- not to mention the Irish public.
The latest allegations to break about the Dublin IRA show that whilst Adams was getting great credit for his influence over republicanism vis a vis the northern peace process- that same influence was alleged to be absent in Dublin were it would have been sorely needed.
Now DSF have been tainted with scandal, farce and failure despite the hard work of very decent, single-minded individuals.
DSF have now lost circa 27,000 votes in three years, for their enemies Cru the fun is just beginning….
Good to see Sinn Fein getting the selfexamination out of the way now so that policy can be in place in plenty of time for the local elections down South.
Only this morning Pat Rabitte included Sinn Fein in with the other ‘selfdescribed leftwing parties’ like Labour, the Greens and the Socialist Party and more or less admitted that it was only a matter of time until they are in government in the South.
The question is, of course, will the DUP beat them in the race. There’s no doubt that Fine Gael would just love to cosy up to a re-born DUP post-Paisley and some of it’s representatives like Donaldson are quite presentable.
After all, a place in a real national government must be quite attractive to any ambitious politican, especially to a unionist one who is debarred by his very identity from ever having a role in British national politics.
Would we ever have thought ten years ago that the DUP would win the leadership of unionism because they were perceived as the guys who could actually do a deal while the UUP eternally delayed?
The question is, ‘Where next for the DUP?’.
The SF self-examination is actually a left V center left running sore when we examine the excerpts of O’Broin & Moran V’s Spain & the leadership lib.
The DUP will be the largest party in the Stormont Assembly for another 10 – 15 years- any question of them sitting in the Dail within a united Ireland context is purely fanciful.
Republicanism must face these difficulties not dream its way around them.
It’s just worth remembering that some of these ‘perceptive’ internal critics live in a fantasy world of their own creation.
E.g., Joanne Spain thinks that the fact that the left-wing Independents gave her a slegging when she brought up the Hunger Strikes in a pre-election radio interview (which happened in the year she was born) shows how irrelevant they are.
Well, Joanne, most of us would draw different conclusions as to who the out of touch and irrelevant people are from that little debate.
Joanne was trying to be elected in a constituency where the state’s inability to deal with rapid development means that parents of 5 year olds don’t know in May whether their children will have a school place that September, but Joanne talks about the Hunger Strikes. Talk about being unable to interact with the electorate on the issues that matter!
It’s ok to throw a bit of national fervor in when you have a huge electoral machine doin the business on the ground.
However, while resignations, defections and lurid allegations persist DSF will continue to reverse becoming a mere slogan wielding micro-group led by a lame duck northern ring-fenced liability.
Adams and DSF must now seriously alter their relationships internally and externally.
Obviously they are carrying passengers- these must be removed and a recruitment drive must commence after policy alterations.
The shinners have been so busy calling for route and branch reform of everyone else they omitted to realise that 9,000 votes per year were being lost in Dublin since the high of ’04….
Is Sinn Fein a normal enough political party that a leadership challenge could be mounted ?
Chris
“Any talk of a future leader is premature in the extreme”
I agree.
“Conor, apart from being the MP for Newry/Armagh, is also the Minister for Regional Development in the North and will sit on the All-Ireland ministerial council. He’s known and respected by Republicans all over this country.”
I think its possible to overestmiate the impact of being an the NSMC. To be frank I think Conor would best be earmarked for Deputy First Minister but I doubt if it would make sense for him to be SF leader.
One key thing learnt this year is that in the 26 counties voters are essentlally not keen on the idea of a northern leader. While people in the six counties don’t mind there being a southern leader. Its also the case that all the power is in the Dail. All of this suggests that someone like Pearce Doherty or Mary Lou McDonald should be next leader, not Conor Murphy, who although good, is northern based and narrow in his appeal in the 26 counties.
And Dublin Central *was* always going to be a long shot because of the strength of Bertie’s pull in this election. Realistically next time is much more likely. In the campaign Mary Lou put in a lot of work in terms of national appearances on National TV and Radio and I think her contribution was excellent. She is certainly very well known (a household name) across the country.
Very talented lady dub, but votes being 46% down on ’04, turbulence/resignations expected re economic policy change, new losers tag attached after election ’07 and northern canvassers tied up with Barby de Broon and Pearse Doc- chances are M.L. could lose her Euro seat.
Its now or never for grizzler & co in the capital.
Do you think they will pull it out of the fire?
While people in the six counties don’t mind there being a southern leader.
And your evidence for this is?
If the Assembly runs for a full term, voting behaviour in the North is likely to undergo a fairly radical shift. This might well be to the benefit of Sinn Féin. Or maybe it won’t. Anybody claiming to have a crystal ball on the future of NI politics needs their head examined.
But it’s not unreasonable to assume that in the context of a functioning Assembly that actually takes decisions that affect people’s pocketbooks, hospitals and schools, that Northern voters might begin to take policy and competence into account. And in that event, a Southern-based SF leader might well run into the same problem Adams faced in this year’s Dáil election – i.e. looking like someone ‘not from round here’ out of touch with local issues.
Remember, a core element of the Adams myth is that when he took control of the IRA, he delivered it from the hands of out of touch Southerners and gave power to those who knew the situation on the ground in the ‘theater of war’. Don’t underestimate the degree of regional loyalty, and even clannishness, among Northern republicans, especially in Belfast, which always was and is likely always to be a place apart.
And Dublin Central *was* always going to be a long shot because of the strength of Bertie’s pull in this election.
Self-delusion. Labour and the Greens saw their share of the vote rise in Dublin Central, albeit marginally. Going from being 79 votes short of a seat to being last eliminated, not even runner up, is a bad result. Bear in mind that Fianna Fáil held two seats already in 2002, the strength of Bertie should not have affected SF’s capacity to take out either Costello or Gregory, both of whom started well short of a quota this time.
Face it, Mary Lou was a weak candidate running in a dismal election for Sinn Féin in Dublin. Dublin Sinn Féin’s worry must now be that the 2004 local elections reflected a high water mark in Dublin, and that puts O Snodaigh’s seat and any possible future gains in jeopardy. 2009 is a long way away, but what came in on a high tide can just as easily be washed away if you haven’t sunk deep roots – ask the Labour Party.
Sammy, during the election campaigns in north and south it was clear in canvassing that southerners are seen as a positive on SF canvassing, but northerners are seen as a negative on SF canvassing.
Having Murphy as DFM and de facto leader in the 6 counties, while having a party leader based in Dublin would be the best resolution of SF current difficulties.