Collusion inquiry’s killer witness hangs himself…
“THE war is over,” said INLA prisoner John Kenneway in Maghaberry a while back. “But Billy Wright was an animal.” Kenneway hanged himself earlier this evening, just after the inquiry into his victim’s murder – notorious LVF killer Wright – began. He was expected to give evidence. It comes at a time when there are suspicions about the State’s involvement (or not) with the murder, but according to early reports, last week “Kenneway was refused compassionate temporary release to attend the Christening of a grandchild”. Freed under the Good Friday Agreement, he also had his licence revoked by Secretary of State Peter Hain and was returned to jail in February to face another decade behind bars.
Art Hostage
You say those who are victims of Brit state terror/Collusion want closure on their own ongoing nightmares.
So do the Victims of Re publican and loyalist terrorists.
Do you think they have any chance of getting any.
“he could have thrown some light”
Could have ? He could also have muddied the waters.
“on the state collusion and modus vivendi that had dogged the whole of Ireland for years.”
Conspiracy theory.
“His death is a blow to those who look forward to the day when the past can consigned to history in a truthful manner and not be kept from those who lost loved ones, from both sides I might add.
The loss of this mans evidence is tragic don’t you concede that? ”
You pre-suppose that he would have told the truth.
Could anything he might have said have been taken any more seriously that the evidence given by the supergrasses ? Remember them?
His death must of course be a disappointment and sorrow for republicans and his family, just as loyalists were upset when Fulton died.
but let’s reserve the word tragedy for people worthy of it – the plane that carried Buddy Holly crashing? That was a tragedy. The Titanic sinking ? Tragedy. But suicides of people like Fred West and this guy don’t merit the word as faras I’m concerned.
All else is, I suspect, crocodile tears, spin and partisan politics.
Cruimh, has it never struck you as odd that people in the six counties took up arms against the state, whereas people in the twenty six, or indeed on the British mainland did not?
It seems clear to me that the abnormal society in the north or Ireland led to the conflict that was pursued. Occupation by a foreign force (as far as a significant minority saw it), sectarian employment practices, gerrymandered local politics and a police force drawn from one community that had a penchant for beating up the other.
When I first became politically active in the late eighties, perfectly respectable politicians could describe Nelson Mandela as a terrorist, while in the nineties those same people would fete him in years to come. I thought the ANC were right to take up arms against an undemocratic regime then, I supported the Palestinians in similar circumstances. All through this though, I understood the circumstances that could drive people to make extreme choices.
Is your view that anyone who takes up arms against a government is always wrong, or simply against the British state?
As for comparing John Kennaway with people who killed for reasons of psycopathy, or because they could get away with it, I can only assume that you don’t know many republicans, as I don’t know any ex-prisoners who took pleasure from fighting a war where people got killed.
God almighty DMOL – we could spend years discussing the causes of the terrorist campaign here and whether not it was justifiable or is , with hindsight,justifiable, let alone other parts of the world.
As regards your last paragraph – the INLA were nutters. Are you telling me that Dominic McGlinchey was sane ?
Ends don’t justify means. No matter how strongly people believe that what they are doing is right, the end doesn’t justify the means.
“Cruimh, has it never struck you as odd that people in the six counties took up arms against the state, whereas people in the twenty six, or indeed on the British mainland did not?”
Eh ? people in the 26 counties DID take up arms against the state – and were stopped by brutality and repression as bad as, and worse than, happened in Northern Ireland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Civil_War
he biggest terroists in the Troubles were the Brits.
Posted by Gerry Kelly on Jun 09, 2007 @ 04:09 PM
no ,i thnk you`ll find it was the catholics in the IRA
He seemed to know what was coming, and accepted the noose. It was over pretty quick. The lads had a beer later in Palace and sent out for an indian.
Art Hostage: Whatever your opinion of this man, he could have thrown some light on the state collusion and modus vivendi that had dogged the whole of Ireland for years.
If you know what evidence he was going to give, please tell us. Then tell us whether you believe him. If you don’t know what he was going to say, then aren’t all of the conspiracy theories circular?
It is not a contest to see who were the biggest terrorists
Brigadier Gordon Kerr or Bobby Storey for example.
While Bobby Storey has got himself a “day job” Brig Gordon Kerr is still causing sectarian strife in Iraq, the Golden Dome was Brig Kerr’s handywork.
https://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php?article_id=11105
Brig Gordon Kerr won’t leave his guys behind, so define terrorism !!
FRU or IRA, UVF or INLA they all committed acts of terrorism.
While Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness, Ian Paisley and Peter Robinson get junkets, Thomas Slab Murphy, Brian Arthurs, Jackie McDonald and Frankie Gallagher get summons/Tax demands.
While the actions were the same, the IRA was called Terrorism and the FRU was called legit Military action, two sides of the same coin.
no ,i thnk you`ll find it was the catholics in the IRA
—
Strange use of the word Catholic, coming from your view, I’d expect you to say “terrorists in the IRA” but Catholic…sounds a bit ill-placed.
Good riddance!
May your God go with you.
Art Dave Allen is dead,
no, no, no, say it is not true!!
Would his brand of humour be allowed today???
If the Soviets had won the Cold War we would be governed by a strict Police state that would watch our every move with cctv cameras, revoke all civil and Human rights, remove the presumption of innocence, and bring in laws that would create a nightmare society where freedoms are a mere aspiration.
Did I miss something or, I thought the West,democracy and freedom won the Cold War.
Still in the Soviet system there would not be false falg terror and false flag religion, or would there??
Just off to Howl at the Moon
Art man, the soviets didn’t win the cold war?? You cannot be serious!! Dave is dead man, his humour sucked, Gorbachev was funnier than that guy. Don’t howl at the moon in July wait until august and then dance at lughnassa. I went to see dancing at lughnassa in the lyric it was fuckin brilliant. You ought to get out more man, talk to real people, the moon won’t talk back, trust me I tried that.
It was just a reflection of the pc, authoritarian Police state we now live in.
Gordon Brown is reputed to govern like stalin, so expect more of the same, if not even more draconian soviet style repressive measures imposed on the public under the guise of false flag terror.
Upon his return from Martha’s Vineyard this coming fall, expect Gordon Brown to give us the Bilderberg, New World Order, neo-con agenda, after a terrorist attack to get us scared shitless, then he will strike.
In the future those who protest will become the dissapeared.
we’re doomed, we’re doomed !!
said like Fraser from Dads Army.
I feel as welcome in my own country as a fart in a space-suit.
Art fuck off to bed man.
The comments of Observer, Reader, Cruimh et al show the real root of the aptly named Troubles. They go hoarse denouncing small pawns and want them dealt with. They are the same type who want drug pushers dealt with but don’t see that their actons,like coke snorting, causes the problem.
The death of Freddy West, though dragged in here to whitewash those who hanged Kenneway, also served no purpose. Keeping him alive might have helped unlock his psychoses and thrown light on the psychoses of other mass murderers out these stalking. Observing the Yorkshire Ripper has certainly done that.
The trolls who stalk these sites are worse than those they condemn. Hitler’s Willing Executioners prefer the dead, all the dead, take their murky secrets to the grave with them and that their own petty lives are not disturbed by th dirt they feed off.
Gerry Kelly,
Very well put. Good points to ponder as sleep overtakes me. Night.
Gerry Kelly: The comments of Observer, Reader, Cruimh et al show the real root of the aptly named Troubles.
And then you go on to suggest that I want a load of ‘murky secrets’ to be kept. What secrets? Yet so far I have mostly asked questions – are the answers to those questions secret? Can you answer any of them, since Art Hostage has not responded? Will you take any murky secrets to the grave? Will your namesake?
TheWonderer
“I forgot to mention that the well-known and prominent family I referred to above has UVF connections dating back to early and mid-1970’s. Almost every adult Catholic in Portadown or the surrounding country areas who lived through that era would most likely confirm that.”
Um, what exactly makes “adult catholics” have expertise on who is or is not a member of the UVF? Are adult protestants experts on who is and isn’t a member of the IRA?
http://tinyurl.com/2t2494: Will Pete Robinson call for an enquiry here too like he did for King rat? Or does he only call for enquiries for the DUP’s politicos?
http://tinyurl.com/36baos Here he is objecting to parole for King Rat’s killers so Robo is probably happy Kenneway is no more.
He wuld have a drink to celebrate but Robo ike King Rat has no bad habits; killing Catholics, FRU working and smack selling hardly count in at least one case.
Regardless of anything else, the state had a duty of care towards the prisoner and that should be concerning regardless even in our nascent police state.
I certainly wouldn’t expect any Unionists (or indeed, many others) to weep for the man, anymore than I would if Stone was found dead in prison tomorrow. But given the seriousness of the accusations around Wrights death, the deceased importance as a witness, there are legitimate questions to be asked. And cock up is almost as bad as conspiracy, to be honest.
Lots of whataboutery to try and muddy the waters.
Art – Kenneway and the INLA’s actions were evil.
What their opponents did has no bearing on that –
What Storey and Kerr got upto has no bearing on what we were discussing.
The Titanic sinking was a tragedy.
The suicide of a terrorist is not.
I do agree with most of kensei’s post – except that Kenneway’s “evidence” would have been worthless – there’s a first! The authorities did have a duty of care towards their prisoner and they failed in that. There are legitimate questions that should be asked.
To Fleeter:
The adult catholics I’m referring to are those that experienced the conflict, I.E, people who may only have been aged 8,9 or ten in ’69, or those kids of the same age in 1972 or later still in 1981.
There are years added to their ages now – kids then — adults of today
Wonderer – that sort of “local knowledge” was recognised as being flawed and unjust when the likes of the B Specials ‘knew that certain families were IRA’ – what’s the difference ?
I will watch the more honorable Honest Tony retire tonight and think that in real life there is a more evil honest Tony who is also getting ready to retire.
Honest Tony’s crew needs to go the same way as his fictional namesake. I want to know the future for Peter, the tan, Hain; Ruth, Big Pussy, Kelly; Patty, little pussy, Hewitt; Under boss silent Gordy Brown; capo Johnny, fats, Prescott; the enforcer, Johnny, the bull, Reid; and others like Jackie, no balls, Straw; Dessie, two guns, Browne, and the family consigliore, Lord Goldsmith.
Will this family be allowed to continue operating by the large new world family headed by little Georgie shrub, heir to the bush crime family.
Who will take over the Bada Bing in Downing Street? Will Carmella, I mean Cherie, have to support herself? Will the new age guru, Dr. Jennifer Melfi, have to find new clients?
Na—faggeed about it, I’ll just watch the more ethical crew on the Soprano’s and see how Tony slips into retirement. Honest Tony, Blair is too evil to think about. He has killed more people than Tony Soprano, is involved with more crooked deals like BAe than Tony Soprano, takes protection from bigger business men than Tony Soprano (like Rupert Murdock, and doesn’t have the doubts that Tony Soprano has.
Post of the week goes to Heck.
Telling the truth has become positively revolutionary.
B.A.E criminal investigation stopped because of the jobs lost without defence contract.
U’m, how about not prosecuting Drug importers for fear of losing drug dealers jobs, or not prosecuting any bribary cases for fear of losing jobs?
Tony Blair and co want to be Half-Pregnant when it comes to criminal investigations.
Already the death of Mr Kenneway is turning out to be less than straightforward
http://www.sundaylife.co.uk/news/article2640645.ece
Choked himself to death, that’s a new one, perhaps Ingram can offer us some insight??
like you could believe a word tht comes out of whichever face ingram is using today
Art Hostage,
I don’t pretend to be an expert on this but I remember a pathologist at one of the Brixton inquests explaining that you can hang yourself standing on the ground, simply by not taking your full weight on your feet. I am surprised the prison service seem to think it is unusual, if that is what they are describing, as it is one of the more common methods in prisons.
Having said that there was a particular issue at Wormwood Scrubs with prisoners being threatened with hanging by prison officers.
http://www.hickmanandrose.co.uk/news01.html
In cases that leave unanswered questions, look to see who gets most benefit from the life lost.
With 9/11 it was authoritarian govt’s around the world.
In this case it is those who wish to see the truth buried and kept from the public.
This case may be a suicide, but when govt’s are less than transparent with the subsequent enquiry they leave thenmselves open to consiracy theories as with 9/11.
all joking and sarcasm aside, we all know from the history of the british governments actions against thorns in their sides?
we all know the british spin on controversial accidents or deaths, CAR ACCIDENT, SUICIDE, FOOD POISONING, OR MURDERED BY ROGUE MEMBERS OF A ORGANISATION???
WHO IS NEXT??
Art 9/11 was the fault of authoritarian govts around the world???? Are you for real? Google this ‘Islamic extremists’. There is the real reason for 9/11, lets not start making excuses, particularly bad ones.
Art
You should maybe consider getting out into the fresh air a bit more, not spending so much time browsing through cryptogon, and generally getting back in touch with reality.
There is a possibility there was something untoward going on around Kenneway’s death. It may also have been simple suicide. Unless you were a witness it’s difficult at this stage to say which, though it seems more likely to have been simple suicide.
Are you familiar with the concept of Occam’s razor?
It says that when a prisoner is found dead in his cell alone, it is more likely that he has killed himself, than that MI5, in conjunction with Mossad, have infiltrated the prison using satellite technology and poison’s developed by the FSB to locate him and murder him….not even if it’s in order to further the secret Opus Dei/Tesco plot to take over the world by stealth, reducing us all to the servants of a new world order dominated by intelligent Blackberries.
No, really, it is…
snakebrain, I think art has been in touch with christine toomey the after life psychic. She told Art the sushi keeneway ate for his last supper was dodgy. It was served to him by a screw in a school girl outfit the nite he died around 7 or 8 pm.
shhhhhhhhh
they’re listening….
aaaarrrrtttttt!!!!!can you hear themmmmmm??
For all you sopranos fans out there the ending of honest Tony Soprano’s run was a satisfing as the end of honest Tony Blair’s run. We can only hope that in the future Tony (and the more ethical tony soprano) will eventually be brought to justice.
Strong rumour floating about the west that the psni have re claimed John’s remains from the family home !!! Any word?
Cruimh
“The Titanic sinking was a tragedy. The suicide of a terrorist is not.”
Actually the sinking of the Titanic was not a tragedy. A disaster, yes. A very sad event, yes. But as anyone who has read their Shakespeare will tell you, a kep element to tragedy is inevitability. The sinking of the Titanic was not the inevitable climax of a coherent narrative arc.
(Though I could see how a fictionalised version could be presented as such in the hands of a good novelist – wrath of God etc.)
You wouldn’t have to regard Kenneway’s death as sad in order to see it as tragic.
(Surely you can empathise with his family who have lost a loved one in perhaps the most devastating of all circumstances? Empathy is a wonderful thing.)
Tragedy has meanings outside of the literary Billy
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/tragedy
“Surely you can empathise with his family who have lost a loved one in perhaps the most devastating of all circumstances? Empathy is a wonderful thing.”
See below
Jun 09, 2007 @ 09:46 PM
“His death must of course be a disappointment and sorrow for republicans and his family, just as loyalists were upset when Fulton died. ”
Billy – have you seen any republican on this thread show a scrap of sympathy for the family/s
of Kenneway’s victim/s ?
Cruimh
“Tragedy has meanings outside of the literary Billy
”
Certainly it has been popularly taken to mean something far more banal and generic that it actually means, but it is NOT simply a synonym for catastrophe. Words mean things, and no two words mean exactly the same thing. “Tragedy” is an ancient concept, first codified by Aristotle but dating back long before that. A tragedy is a demise made inevitable by a fatal flaw. One could argue that Kenneway’s death is a tragedy. The Asian tsunami was not.
“Billy – have you seen any republican on this thread show a scrap of sympathy for the family/s
of Kenneway’s victim/s?”
That’s completely irrelevant.
The question is, do YOU have any empathy in you for another human being, even a sinner?
Truth is, when one man dances on another man’s grave, the grave-dancer becomes the issue, no matter how wicked the man in the grave might have been.
We’ve got far too many grave dancers in this part of the world.
It now turns out from yesterday’s meeting of the Wright inquiry that “the Minister” ordered ‘King Rat’s transfer to the Maze shortly before he was assassinated – a most unprecedented act.
Was “the Minister” Mo Mowlam, does this indicate HMG’s complicity in the killing, and does it help explain why Kennaway might have been done away with?
One would have thought that the proceedings would have identified who “the Minister” really was – what I have not been able to establish by any of its coverage I have seen.
Trow,
You raise a very interesting point and I to was puzzled why the ministers name was not mentioned in the articles that have been published on this.
It is far more than just interesting, Mick; it it alarming.
It is apparently the first example of the Crown interferring with an inquiry – what many were complaining about when HMG sought passage of the enabling legislation, but suddenly turn silent when what they predicted appears right before their eyes.
The only way to explain the failure to identify who “the Minister”, apparently SoS Mo Mowlam, was, is that either the inquiry was instructed by the SoS not to divulge his or her identity or the press was operating under some Crown gagging order.
Are posters on this site really incapable of taking anything seriously?