Slummy mummies get pyjama warning…
GREAT story in the Andytown News about how the Lower Falls Tracksuit – better known as ‘pyjamas’ – has migrated to south east Belfast. A Short Strand school principal has written to mothers who wear pyjamas while leaving their kids to school that they are being “disrespectful” and setting a “bad example”. St Matthew’s principal Joe McGuinness said up to 50 pyjama-wearing mums leave their kids to school each morning. But he added that European laws exist which prevent principals from banning pyjamas from schools.“There used to be about 15 to 20 pyjama-wearing parents, but there is anything up to 50 now, and they are all women,” McGuinness said.
“People don’t go to see a solicitor, bank manager or doctor dressed in pyjamas, so why do they think it’s okay to drop their children off at school dressed like that?
“It’s about respect and setting children a bad example.
“There is an old word called slovenliness, which means messy and lazy. I think this can be applied to people who spend the day dressed in pyjamas.”
> I drove through Milan last month. Even in the poorest districts
> you’ll see an elegance practically unknown in Ireland.
If you call wearing two pairs of sunglasses (one on your head and one on your nose) and a pastel jumper pulled over your shoulders “elegance” then you’ll find plenty of it in Milan, but I prefer fashion on this East Atlantic Archipelegio.
Would anyone happen to know if this headmaster was native to the Short Strand? I suspect that he doesn’t understand the complement these women are showing to their school by mentally situating it within “their” community, by taking it under their wings (or dressing gowns) and not seeing it as a distant and unfriendly institution that requires formal attire.
AAA,
“If you call wearing two pairs of sunglasses (one on your head and one on your nose) and a pastel jumper pulled over your shoulders “elegance†then you’ll find plenty of it in Milan, but I prefer fashion on this East Atlantic Archipelegio.”
LOL. The jumper isn’t “pulled” but draped elegantly over the shoulders. One sees this throughout Europe. It’s called style. I know I’ve returned to Ireland when I see women tying their sweaters about their bums.
“I know I’ve returned to Ireland when I see women tying their sweaters about their bums. ”
Not a sight seen often in Ballymoney – the sleeves are way too short.
Maggot,
“…the sleeves are way too short.”
…and traditionally worn over fat, corned-beef arms :0)
There’s something intensely erotic about those rolls of fat bulging above the wristwatch !
“Good for Joe McGuinness- schools should attempt to set an example regardless of how crap the area they serve.”
Since his arrival as headmaster, Mr Maginness has managed to single handedly ruin any academic achievement within the school, oversee the worst staff moral of any school in the city & be the most anonymous head teacher in living memory.
Its too easy to blame the kids or parents, when the primary six/seven children had six teachers during a nine month period when studying for the 11+, hardly a stable class environment for any pupil.
Perhaps the A-town news could concentrate on exposing the sub standard levels of primary education in some areas & o’millions & Livingstone could leave their Sunday World-esqe headlines for page 27.
An Amateur Anthropologist
So it’s all to do with inverted snobbery then…
What is it with Mr.Maginness and the Andy Town News?
When he got the job, he had his wee photo in the ATN’s Birthdays and Celebrations Columns, celebrating his promotion along with the communion kids and glamourous grannies of West Belfast.
He was also in the Sunday Life recently gloating about what a great Gaelic Football career he had.(A glorious past largely unknown to the discerning Belfast Gaelic Football community)
Now he’s sinking the boot into the working-class parents of St. Matthews.
All of this self-promotion only confirms the fact that Maginess has taken his eye off the ball. He should concentrate on improving his woeful record as Headmaster which is abysmal compared to his predecessors, Mr. Lombard and Mr. Hill, rather than heaping humiliation the community in which he works.
If Maginness is so fond of having his face seen in West Belfast, I would suggest that he spends more time over there-how about the Job Centre on the Falls Road, for starters?
educare
“Since his arrival as headmaster, Mr Maginness has managed to single handedly ruin any academic achievement within the school, oversee the worst staff moral of any school in the city & be the most anonymous head teacher in living memory.”
Rubbish. His school is well thought of by the other schools in the area especially the ones they do cross community work with.
I would be interested to see what figures you (and others) use to back up this attack on a headmaster who is questioning whether or not mothers in PJs at the school gate is appropriate.
BTW, Martin I don’t think the boot is being sunk into “working” class parents- if they were working I suspect they would be dressed and ready for some economic activity.
I truly cannot imagine any parent here bringing their kiddies to school in pyjamas as it would be about as socially acceptable as turning up for work in a prestigous firm in a clown constume.
You haven’t been around our home manor too much lately, Val. It’s quite the rage these days. I was greeted cheerily by a thirty-something acquaintance in her late thirties on Monday evening, happily dandering about the New Lodge in her jimmie-jammies.
Oh, this was at 6 in the evening!
Martin
Education isn’t merely about dropping the kiddies off and pick them up in the afternoon, smart and couth. Parents can blame the school, but their attitudes towards education are important as well. To have the balls to tell parents to take a bit of responsibility and attempt to look smart shows that he would prefer not to see the community let itself down.
I knew this thread would eventually descend into a diatribe on how well dressed (or not) women are, but have you had a look at the blokes recently? I haven’t seen too many displays of sartorial elegance. I’m just girding my loins for the shiny red sunburned face and white beer belly combo that means summer’s on its way.
Animus,
“have you had a look at the blokes recently?”
Ah, I glad you asked… :0)
Posted by Sammy Morse on Jun 06, 2007 @ 01:16 PM
There may be a point that there’s a correlation between wearing PJs all day and occasionally not remembering to send your children to school…
…or maybe that’s just a value judgement.
Yes, it is. A typical, sneering snobby one at that.
Posted by Belfast Gonzo on Jun 06, 2007 @ 07:43 PM
An Amateur Anthropologist
So it’s all to do with inverted snobbery then…
Nothing inverted about your snobbery boys. Which party are you supporters of again?
Yes, it is. A typical, sneering snobby one at that.
Typical middle-class lefty bullshit. How many people do you actually know who run around in their PJs all day?
PS – wearing pyjamas all day usually (well, nearly always) means no job which in turn usually (unless there’s a male breadwinner at home) means living at the taxpayer’s expense.
This at a time when there are so ‘few’ jobs in Belfast that tens of thousands of Poles, Lithuanians and Turks can arrive at Aldergrove with a limited command of English and find themselves in gainful employment in a matter of days. There is nothing cool, independent-minded or ‘street’ about this. It’s just pure spongerism. Call that snobbery all you want.
PPS – many people have made the same point as Gonzo and I on this thread, so why pick on the two of us? If you’re need to try and score cheap political points, try harder.
Posted by Sammy Morse on Jun 07, 2007 @ 10:54 AM
>Typical middle-class lefty bullshit. How many
>people do you actually know who run around in
>their PJs all day?
This is about people who walk their children to school in their pyjamas. You know damn all about them Sammy, apart from what you have assumed.
>PS – wearing pyjamas all day usually (well,
>nearly always) means no job which in turn
>usually (unless there’s a male breadwinner at
>home) means living at the taxpayer’s expense.
Who said they were wearing them all day? Who said there was no male breadwinner? Who said they were living at taxpayers expense? Who said, finally, that even if they fall into all the above categories THEY FORGET TO SEND THEIR CHILDREN TO SCHOOL!!! Pure snobbery.
>PPS – many people have made the same point as
>Gonzo and I on this thread, so why pick on the
>two of us?
You’re being picked on!!!! What a joke.
I am interested in the practicalities of this, as it sounds quite handy. Does one wash before putting on new pyjamas to go out in, or does one revel in the scent of the night and not change at all. Presumably one needs to wash at some point?
I occasionally go out without bothering to put underwear on (“going commando” is what I have heard it is called), but no-one seems to mind, unless I forget to put my trousers on.
This is what happens when society no longer has any sense of norms or acceptable behaviour- to criticise any form of behaviour becomes some form of “snobbery”.
Do those attacking the headmaster, Belfast Gonzo and Sammy Morse acutally believe that that the school gate is the place for mothers in PJs?
DK,
“Presumably one needs to wash at some point?”
Shows how much you know! Never heard of cheap cologne (for the girls) and cheap aftershave (for the boys)?
Dawkins: “Shows how much you know! Never heard of cheap cologne (for the girls) and cheap aftershave (for the boys)?”
It’s like a meme-bomb in my brain! Thank you Dawkins – now I can drop my kids off with pride, along with the whiff of Davidoff Cool Water.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2007260237,00.html
Posted by BonarLaw on Jun 07, 2007 @ 11:32 AM
>This is what happens when society no longer has
>any sense of norms or acceptable behaviour- to
>criticise any form of behaviour becomes some
>form of “snobberyâ€.
On the contrary, had BG not started off with ‘Slummy Mummies’, had SM not extrapolated into dodgy territory, I wouldn’t have used the word snobbery. I was quite clear about why I used it. Read it again if you want.
>Do those attacking the headmaster, Belfast Gonzo
>and Sammy Morse acutally believe that that the
>school gate is the place for mothers in PJs?
Well, I wouldn’t say the school gate is the place for mothers in pyjamas, but I see no problem with it. In my day, plenty of mothers used to get up, brush their teeth, put on dressing-gown and slippers, collect the milk off the doorstep, get all the children up, wash them, feed them, pack their bags including pack-lunch, push them out the door and then get themselves ready in peace. Some worked as cleaners, some in food establishments, in factories etc. The fact they were in pyjamas at 8:15 did not mean they didn’t work. Many didn’t though…
Nowadays, these mothers would never allow their children to walk to school alone, so they go with them. That’s a pity in my view, but a whole other phenomenon.
Nothing to do with declining morals, state dependency or propensity to feckless parenting.
BTW, where are the women on this thread?
“you’ll see an elegance practically unknown in Ireland”
You’d see the same elegance anywhere in Italy from the largest city to the smallest village. It’s largely to do with self-respect, a true sense of style and generally looking a frig of a lot better than we do anyway.
An Amateur Anthropologist – I think you are getting mixed up with Benetton UK.
DK,
“I can drop my kids off with pride, along with the whiff of Davidoff Cool Water.”
W00t! It’s a brave man who’d admit to even knowing what the stuff was called :0)
Pith,
“You’d see the same elegance anywhere in Italy from the largest city to the smallest village. It’s largely to do with self-respect, a true sense of style and generally looking a frig of a lot better than we do anyway.”
All that and more. I return to my contention that the Italians have the eye. Look at Ireland: one of the most beautiful countries on earth.
Now look at what the Irish have done to it. Bungalows, anyone?
Briso
“Nothing to do with declining morals, state dependency or propensity to feckless parenting.”
Are you sure about that?
I’m a woman Briso, and I did mention that the finger is pointed at women in this case. My guess is that there aren’t many daddies at the school gates. For the record, I dress myself every day before leaving the house.
As I said quite early on, I don’t see why it is so difficult to throw on some clothes before accompanying a child to school. No one is stipulating evening dress, but wearing jammies to school implies that you really don’t give a toss.
Posted by Animus on Jun 07, 2007 @ 01:05 PM
>For the record, I dress myself every day before leaving the house.
Fair enough, and what you wear is your own business.
>No one is stipulating evening dress, but wearing
>jammies to school implies that you really don’t
>give a toss.
Not to me it doesn’t. The fact they are there implies that that they do care. You are entitled to your opinion on the appropriateness of peoples dress, but I would contend that where people are clearly not displaying too much flesh or offensive slogans, it’s a free country and none of my business beyond that.
Briso
If you were sitting on an interview panel, and one candidate wore a suit and the other wore pyjamas, would you really consider these to be equivalent? If you were served in a shop by someone wearing pyjamas, would you not think it a bit strange? Is school different? Why? Because they aren’t working in the school?
I am willing to be convinced on this one, but nothing said so far works for me. I have seen pyjama people in my own neck of the woods and I always feel faintly embarassed for their children. And while it’s none of our business, presumably it is the business of the headmaster who is attempting to invoke a certain respect for learning in his school. They are not being asked for anything that a normal person would consider outlandish. Why not let them bring the kiddies to school dressed in a bath towel – as long as the towel is covering flesh and doesn’t have an offensive slogan, of course.
>Because they aren’t working in the school?
Yes, exactly.
By the way, I’m not trying to convince you this is a ‘good thing’. It’s only my opinion. As I say, you’re entitled to your opinion.
The only thing that gets me angry (and did on this thread) is sneering snobbery. That’s a completely different thing from being a social conservative. Saying you think pyjamas are inappropriate is a completely different thing from saying it shows people don’t care, especially when that is patently and demonstrably untrue.
It implies that people don’t care. Yes, it does. This is not a dead cert, but if it doesn’t take that much time to dress oneself – dressing a toddler takes several times as long some days.
Wearing pyjamas is a bad example. It’s a slippery slope from inappropriate to not caring. I’m not a social conservative. I don’t care if a parent wears outlandish clothing, as long as it’s not what they obviously wore to bed. It smacks of a total lack of effort. If that’s snobbery, I’ll take it. If pyjama parents say they do care (any pyjama parents on Slugger?) I would love to hear the justification for not taking the extra 1 minute it would take to throw on clothes. In fact I have a little suggestion – put your clothes out the night before and then you don’t even have to think about it.
Story on Today FM now.
Who said they were wearing them all day?
I did. Because, some of them live in my street, some of them are people I’ve known for years, some of them are members of my extended family. And all the ones I know wear them all day. Maybe you have some daytime pyjama-wearing friends who slip into daywear about 11 or something. I don’t. Wearing pyjamas during the day is a direct consequence of not being gainfully employed. After all, would your employer let you turn up to work in pyjamas?
Actually, while I’ve been typing this, one of my neighbours has just walked past the house in her PJs, so it’s a safe assumption that she has been in them all day. And no, she doesn’t work either.
Who said, finally, that even if they fall into all the above categories THEY FORGET TO SEND THEIR CHILDREN TO SCHOOL!!! Pure snobbery.
What a load of bourgeois, sociology lecturer/kitchen sink drama rubbish. Spare me your mawkish sentimentalisation of working-class life. This has nothing to do with snobbery and everything to do with standards. You clearly know nothing about life in working-class parts of Belfast today. These are just the sort of parents who fail to send their children to school from time to time because they aren’t actually out of bed in time to do so, and whose children thanks to their lack of prospects spend their teenage years making the lives of their neighbours a misery, before repeating the cycle at an early age themselves.
Although, at least the mothers are there. Most of the fathers get off the scene as soon as they realise that, yes, that’s a real baby and yes, it’s going to cost real money to look after.
I bet you think Look Back In Anger and Kes are works of genius, don’t you?
In my day, plenty of mothers used to get up, brush their teeth, put on dressing-gown and slippers, collect the milk off the doorstep, get all the children up, wash them, feed them, pack their bags including pack-lunch, push them out the door and then get themselves ready in peace.
Which isn’t remotely comparable to what is going on today…
Some worked as cleaners
That’s some job as a cleaner that doesn’t start until after you get the kids out to school. Must be really popular. Most of the cleaners I know either have to get up at the crack of dawn or work some unsocial twilight shift that mucks up with family mealtimes. Let me know where this cleaning job is, I know a few people who’d be interested.
Try Fail
Try Again Fail Again
Try Cheaply Fail Cheaply
Not content with spreading the news throughout Ireland,Joe McGuinness is back in the Andy Town news again this week on this story….
Personally, I think that it is impossible for McGuiness to restore decent parent-school relationships given the extent of the humiliation and ridicule that he has imposed on the people of the Short Strand.Parents (of the non-outdoor pyjama wearing type, which comprise the vast majority!) are extremely angry and upset.
McGuinness should do the decent thing and resign before he is sacked by the Board of Governors
https://www.bunnystore.de/dynbilder/azb_332_3.jpg
would be perfectly acceptable!
ally
McGuinness hasn’t imposed humiliation and ridicule on the people of the Short Strand- the PJ clad mothers did that all by themselves.
Briso
“The fact they are there implies that that they do care.”
No it doesn’t. Getting your kid to school is a legal obligation. Doing so without bothering to get dressed makes a statement about that obligation.
Perhaps the Andersonstown News should ask Mr Guinness what sort of an example he is setting the children, with his own poor attendance record.
If he spent more time taking an interest in the running of the school, and less time talking to the press about the attire of some of the parents, he might start to get the school back to the high standards set by his predecessor.
Garteh
let’s not waste the ATN’s time, why don’t you provide us with the facts and figures about McGuinness’s atendance. From your post you seem to know all about it.
Put up or shut up.
As both McGuineess and you well know, Bonar Law, the embarrassing PJ fashion is a Belfast-wide scourge and not just a St. Matthews’ phenomenen.
McGuinness publicity-seeking ridicule of Short Strand parents was a self-serving exercise to feed his own ego.
The predictable by-product of his action is that people like you will take the opportunity to condemn en masse the people of the area as lazy, bone-idle dole-spongers. Apart from your own obvious antipathy to people from the area, it is evident you know nothing (and care even less) of the internal issues affecting the school and this community. This is borne out by your earlier vague and irrelevant reference to an obscure cross-community venture involving the school. No doubt the result of a quick google search.
Your posts, along with several others, merely underline the serious consequences of the ill-judged actions of media-hungry McGuinness.
That being the chance to snipe at and harangue the entire community in order to feed your own barely-disguised bigotry.
It is right and proper that he should resign his post as he has lost the confidence of parents and the entire community alike.
Regardless of McGuiness’ intentions, this has back-fired badly on him.-time to go methinks
Is this what they fought the battle of St. Matthews for?
The right to wear jimmy-jammers all day?
ally
” it is evident you know nothing (and care even less) of the internal issues affecting the school and this community. This is borne out by your earlier vague and irrelevant reference to an obscure cross-community venture involving the school. No doubt the result of a quick google search.”
Very, very wide of the mark. I spoke to teachers in the area who confirmed the high professional regard McGuinness is held in before I posted.
“your own barely-disguised bigotry.”
Ah the “B” word. I was wondering how long it woukld take…
Hmm.
When my children were small and needed to be driven to school I would almost always invariably throw a coat over my nightie and take them to school. To be fair, I drove and would have been mortified to have broken down or needed petrol!
I usually went home, showered and went to work after that. The early part of the morning consisted of getting them up, fed, homeworks double checked, dressed , lunches made and out on time for school.
I think the male voice is being particularly harsh and judgemental here in evaluating mothers who bring their children to school in casual attire.
I think that AAA has a bit of a point though. In years past, I wouldnt have been seen in night attire past 9 in the morning around the house. Perhaps working from home changed me, or social attitudes, but I have no problem now being seen in the silk jammies past noon.
As a parent of a child at the school and having spoken today to members of the Board of Governors and several current teachers, I can confidently say that your assessment of McGuinness’ performance is nonsense.
Low staff morale, increasingly poor exam results and McGuinness’s solo run to the papers are testament to his lack of standing in the community.
Better get back to the old search engine, Bonar Law.
Regarding your mock outrage at the mention of the ‘B’ word-if the cap fits………..
ally
perhaps the moderator would like to comment on your 9.30?
Evidently not, Bonar Law,.
Miss Fitz,
Are you lazy? Are you living off benefits for no good reason? Did you forget to send your children to school when you couldn’t be bothered to get up in the morning?
Am I entitled to make any value judgements about the other parts of your life about which I know nothing on the basis that you brought your kids to school in your nightie?
I don’t think so.
Briso