Why SF were rejected
Chris Gaskin thinks he knows:
Let’s have a look at our manifesto, or lack there of, for example. I want to make it clear that I don’t blame the people who drafted it, there is a serious problem within the party with policy formation.
That being said the manifesto was the biggest pile of watery, airy fairy, head in the f*****g clouds, not a notion of what is going on, bullshit that I have ever had the misfortune of reading!!
I can’t help but wonder if he has read any of SF’s previous manifestos.
Most southerners, whilst harbouring a sentimental attachment to Irish unity, have become partitionist in outlook and want Sinn Fein quarantined in the north. They also regard the British government’s role up there as largely benevolent-which it now is- and therefore perceive the Shinnners militant Brits Out rhetoric as absurd.
Seanzmct,
I don’t think it has anything to do with southerners seeing British rule in Northern Ireland as being “largely benevolent”.
Truth be told, it’s more a case of fear that Northern Ireland being a largely malevolent influence on the Republic with the introduction of segregated communities, a potentially violent minority, huge economic and social problems that would threaten the prosperity of the rest of the island etc.
Having said all that, if a majority north of the border want unification the south will swallow the pill, regardless how bitter.
But all people in the Republic want to do to further the cause of unification is to make their country as free, successful, prosperous, open and dynamic as possible, while rebuilding bridges with all parts of the island.
After all, how a united Ireland will come about, if ever, is settled – consent.
The problem for Sinn Féin is that when it comes to the “national question”, many people south of the border don’t know what they are for now that there is an agreement.
If the people of the Irish Republic want a hand of friendship and reconciliation to be stretched out to Paisley and unionism for example they want that hand to be the hand of their leader Bertie Ahern and not the hand of northern nationalism – Adams.
For all intents and purposes, Sinn Féin are a new party in the Republic so they have to build up a longterm base.
It’s not impossible for them to become a force to some degree but they need to develop into a party that is more in touch with the Republic’s electorate.
Saying you are socialist one minute but also saying you won’t raise corporation tax and putting in place a negotiating team to talk to Fianna Fáil about going into government even before the election made SF look like transparent opportunists.
Could you imagine Joe Higgins going in with Fianna Fáil?
From Chris Gaskin: “We must also remember that the electorate in most of the 26 counties are not as trusting as the Northern voters. They require and demand proper policies and proper strategies from us. It’s not like South Armagh or West Belfast where you could stand a donkey with a tricolour and they would get elected.”
Holy God, you really do realise it’s over. Because it really, REALLY is.
From Chris Gaskin: “We must also remember that the electorate in most of the 26 counties are not as trusting as the Northern voters. They require and demand proper policies and proper strategies from us. It’s not like South Armagh or West Belfast where you could stand a donkey with a tricolour and they would get elected.â€
Exactly, and neither can Sinn Fein blame the British Government, the Unionists, Orange Order, gerrymandering, or Protestant bigotry for this SF poor election result in the ROI.
“In the long run people will be better off.”
Others have already had their say on this.
I just don’t see it in terms of money in their pocket. And I remain to be convinced that American software companies are the best way to build a long term economic success because when the Poles or Chinese learn fluent English they’ll be off like a rabbit on a greyhound track to where multinationals can get employees working 12 hours a day for all the cabbage they can eat.
You still need to MAKE things, and I’m not sure that the growth of business parks on the M50 can be sustained on Belfast’s M2 in a united Ireland dependent on developing ‘IT’ bits and bobs.
“End of…patronage politics here.”
And you’d base your evidence of that on Bertie’s approach to Sinn Fein in the Dail, would you? He and others seemed pretty patronising.
“Unity by SF through military means is not possible, now it is proved unity through political means is not possible by SF.”
Maybe they should disband and become an old comrades association. They could march around Leinster House every May 24th to commemorate their glorious defeats.
The Sinn Fein website link to Republican News
http://republican-news.org/current/news/index.html
is showing a banner headline
“SF ready to negotiate government”
“Bertie Ahern could be returned as 26-County Taoiseach for a further five years, according to the latest polls, but only if he finds a new coalition partner”
Sinn Fein ready to negotiate? What with? What are they on these days?
Still, never mind: the faithful in the North who don’t ever follow news in the Republic anyway will read this and believe. After all, the party would never mislead them!
Kensai “In the long run people will be better off” Republicans often make this mistake. Contrary to what they believe Unionists have not chosen to be British on a cost-benefit analysis or by picking a nationality out of a catalogue. They are and feel themselves to be British. Whether they would be better or worse off uniting with another country is not relevant. The Republic would be better off uniting with Norway or the USA, will they do that? No, because they are Irish.
But this mistaken analysis by SF has some benefits. Almost no Protestants want a united Ireland and about 25% of Catholics want to maintain the Union (and more are easy either way). So even with differences in population growth that means there will never be an NI majority for Irish unity. So why have Republicans accepted the current agreement? Well they console themselves with the idea that the Unionist population will soon come round to the self-evident (to them) benefits of unity.
As we go through the 21st century I predict that Irish unity will always be about 20 years away. “Next year in Jersusalem”.
George : “It’s not impossible for them to become a force to some degree but they need to develop into a party that is more in touch with the Republic’s pid. electorate
Saying you are socialist one minute……… made SF look like transparent opportunists.”
Spot on. If anyone saw the debate on RTE – Gerry was exposed as clueless re the economic priorties. He waffles about suicide, and public ownsership health service ete – “Its the economy stupid!!!!” (Brutal but true). No-one cares who owns the assets of the health service as long as it gets cheaper/and towards free at the point of delivery…Gerry missed the point after a generation of VHI, and private public partnerships to build roads etc..
The other great line was to try and stop property speculators…what a way to piss off almost every homeowner in Dublin!…the hope of many in the poorer area like Ballymun as that they can cash in on their house value at some point.
SF could do worse that take the Labour Party policies lock stock and barrel – and look to challenge them out at the next election as Pat Rabitte is forced out – the votes are there in five of the Dublin consituencies of the message is striong. But above all that is to find someone with credibility to speak on economic matters – the opportunity was lost to put Catriona Ruane in as the chair of the finance committee in Stormont shaping policy – and driving convergence on the economies. Put in eight heavier weights in Dublin
and SF might come out the next time with 8 or more – absond from policy making and they are stuck…
“The path of least resistance as the Zen teacher would say.”
I thought that was about electricity. I didn’t think my text reciting physics teacher knew much about Bhuddism.
“No-one cares who owns the assets of the health service as long as it gets cheaper/and towards free at the point of delivery…Gerry missed the point after a generation of VHI, and private public partnerships to build roads etc..”
“SF could do worse that take the Labour Party policies lock stock and barrel”
Maybe, but he needs to remember to pick the Irish Labour Party, not the 1970′s British Labour Party. Maybe he should stop reading The Guardian too.
“As we go through the 21st century I predict that Irish unity will always be about 20 years away. “Next year in Jersusalemâ€.”
I understand that Jews has been back in Jerusalem for a century or so now and that next year they celebrate 70 years of control.
I’m a Bangor prod with a centre-right economic disposition and an English born family. I am utterly average in consumer behaviour and politcial outlook (at least in UK politics). I’d tick the box for a UI today if I felt the proposed constitution was made in the spirit of a flag that’s a third Orange.
I would have done twenty years ago except that I’d never want to reward terror so I couldn’t have (although loyalist terror did make the idea more palatable in an odd way). Under current circumstances I don’t mind “rewarding” success and good manners.
Don’t take the Sinner’s word for it, take Bertie’s word that Southern economic success is dependent on stability.
Unionism has had 80 years to give us stability and the British had even longer. We’ve had Emergency Acts in force since the 1920′s and centuries of Coercion Acts etc. before that. It’s time for a change and no-one realises that better than the northern population.
Sinn Fein is heading for the centre as Fianna Fail and more recently the Stickies did before them. Get used to it.
“Sinn Fein is heading for the centre as Fianna Fail and more recently the Stickies did before them. Get used to it.”
So what are SF for then? They’re just getting in the way of reconciliation.
Is there perhaps some unholy alliance with FF to make Bertie and Mary look like comparative superstars of cross-community relations?
“Sinn Fein is heading for the centre as Fianna Fail and more recently the Stickies did before them. Get used to it” – oh doubtless. And you’ll get used to the fact that no one much in the Free State is voting for them there? Oh you won’t, and you’ll stick to shouting empty slogans at everyone who doesn’t share your worldview? Right.
Regarding SF, I think they are going to have to decentralize their leadership and campaign strategy. Pretending that the border isn’t there doesn’t make it go away in the minds of the people. They are going to have to have a high-profile leader in charge of the party in the RoI, who is from the RoI and speaks with a southern accent. Policies are going to have to be formulated on an RoI basis, with little more than a nod to the whole reunification thing.
My opinion has always been that we need to address conventional politics first and get agreement moving before we can have a sensible discussion on constitutional matters. The results in the RoI mean that SF are going to be forced into this position, and I think this is a good thing. If we can shut up about the border for a while and try to get this place up and running things are going to get a lot better.
On the subject of a UI and how far away it is :
- I think the ground has shifted a little bit. I’d say that you will find more people from a unionist background, who traditionally supported the union with the UK for reasons of economic stability, who might consider voting for a UI because they think life will be better that way. These are the people who haven’t voted in recently elections, who want nothing to do with the Orange Order and are disgusted by loyalist paramilitarism, and who broadly want some sort of settlement to work out. They know that the RoI has corrected a lot of the backward attitudes to Prods and that this will continue; they may even have friends who are Prods living in Dublin who encounter no impediment whatsoever when practicing their religious beliefs.
- The British have been deliberately and publicly shafting unionism for years and they’re going to keep doing it; there’s nobody in British politics outside of the lunatic fringe defending the union with NI. Defending the union from within NI has become almost impossible. The economic argument has been consistently undermined. The cultural argument has been undermined by unionists themselves, who cannot seem to avoid diluting their traditions by mixing them with loyalist paramilitarism, thuggery, violence and anti-social activity. I think there are many unionists who are disgusted by what goes on over the 12th where bonfires are lit, blocking public streets and damaging road surfaces.
- I do not think the majority of the population in the RoI would vote down reunification. There might be a lot of people in Dublin who would, but then again Dublin isn’t Ireland. I doubt that nationalists will get themselves too hung up on this ..
Jaffa,
“What is Sinn Fein for?”
Labour is becoming a Christian Democrat party like British Labour and elements of the Democrats in America.
That leaves room for a Social Democrat party in the European tradition and Sinn Fein is perceptibly moving in that direction.
Given the PR system there is room for a number of parties on the left, especcially when we include the Greens which will allow progressive unionist voice to emerge.
If the Fine Gael/ Fianna Fail split continues then the broadleft may hole the balance quite soon.
“I do not think the majority of the population in the RoI would vote down reunification. There might be a lot of people in Dublin who would, but then again Dublin isn’t Ireland. I doubt that nationalists will get themselves too hung up on this ..”
You bet Gerry and SF are hung up and feeling pretty low about losing out in Dublin. The population of the Greater Dublin Area as of Census 2006 was 1,661,185 persons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Dublin_Area
This is nearly 45-50% of all the people in the ROI.
Curious,
if you think the people of the Republic will vote against unification when the people north of the border vote for it, then you really are in for a land.
This is one of those decisions that the southern electorate will make en masse, like with the GFA when 95% voted in favour.
You forget that we already had our civil war and killed as many of our own in 11 months as were killed north of the border in over 3 decades of conflict.
The people of the Republic won’t risk creating new wounds after taking the guts of 80 years to heal the old ones.
The nation will not divide on this issue so come the day I reckon you are looking at 90%+ for, and that includes Dublin.
The election result was certainly a setback for Sinn Fein but 143,000 First Preference Votes for Sinn Fein suggests that there is a signifcant foundation for the Party to build on over the next 5 years.
Now that the Northern vote is in the bag, the priority is to achieve credible and relevant policies that will appeal to even more of the southern electorate.
The hard work starts here….
Why SF were rejected?
One word: “socialist”
Why SF were rejected?
One word: “socialistâ€
I’m not sure we appreciate how Amercian the Irish are. The extremes aren’t there but when I look at FG I feel I’m looking at relatively liberal north-eastern Republicans and FF look a lot like Bill Clinton style Democrats. FG’s membership of the European People’s Party (Christian Democrats) and FF’s playing about with the European Liberals seems to echo that. Maybe I’m getting it wrong but I’m pretty sure we could use the US tags for these parties and we wouldn’t be far off. If the US had PR they’d probably have half a social democratic labour party too and a dash of a green party too.
SF are the black panther party. An anachronism.
Niall
“Why SF were rejected?”
I think its deeper than just socialism. They are seen as outsiders. A bunch of violent, Northern Culchies with economic and social policies that would wreck what Irish people have worked very hard for a very long time to create.
So far Sinn Fein have delivered nothing positive beyond persuading their bereted comrades to stop murdering fellow Irish men and women. Even in the North the merrygoround will soon have to stop when they have to take some hard decisions on spending and cannot just blame everything on the Prods or the Brits.
A technical question – Do RTE always have 2 big debates ?
One for the two big parties that the real choice is between……….and one for the rest. Nothwithstanding Gerry’s performance structurally this set-up must have worked against all the smaller parties.
“I just don’t see it in terms of money in their pocket. And I remain to be convinced that American software companies are the best way to build a long term economic success because when the Poles or Chinese learn fluent English they’ll be off like a rabbit on a greyhound track to where multinationals can get employees working 12 hours a day for all the cabbage they can eat.”
It’s not that simple. Firstly, while in the long run I have no doubt that India and China will catch up with us, in terms of quality they aren’t there yet. Secondly, companies develop very particular expertise that is not easily transfered. For example, our company in Belfast is a wee bit screwed at the moment and is pushing out some new products to deal with it. The turn around has been about 7 months. It’s true to say that wouldn’t have been possible without the expertise in Belfast. Thirdly, Belfast is only 5 hours behind the East Coast of the US, which is an advantage. Last – the comparison isn’t on wages, it’s loaded labour weight. That often has less of a gap than pure wages.
IT is the only answer, and I have no doubt that over time less will come here and some of the softer stuff will go. Economies, like investments need diversified. But that is a simplisitc analysis that doesn’t stand up.
“You still need to MAKE things, and I’m not sure that the growth of business parks on the M50 can be sustained on Belfast’s M2 in a united Ireland dependent on developing ‘IT’ bits and bobs.”
No, precisely the wrong thing to say and I hope to god none of our politicians think that as we’ll be even more of a basket case. We simply cannot compete with the Far East in making anything. The only things that the West can make now are high, value added products that retail at a premium.
But the North does have a wee bit more of a manufacturing base than the South. So if you are looking for a diversified economy, it would make some sense….
“And you’d base your evidence of that on Bertie’s approach to Sinn Fein in the Dail, would you? He and others seemed pretty patronising.”
Ho ho ho. See: http://www.tomgriffin.org/the_green_ribbon/2007/05/can_all_ireland.html#comments for an excellent explaination
“Sinn Fein ready to negotiate? What with? What are they on these days?” – Cynic
It’s just propaganda. They aim to create the impression that they are considered “respectable” enough for government in the south, when the reality is that both of the main party leaders have made it clear that neither of them would touch PSF with a 90-mile bargepole.
“Republicans often make this mistake. Contrary to what they believe Unionists have not chosen to be British on a cost-benefit analysis or by picking a nationality out of a catalogue. They are and feel themselves to be British. Whether they would be better or worse off uniting with another country is not relevant. The Republic would be better off uniting with Norway or the USA, will they do that? No, because they are Irish.”
I never claimed that they did. I was responding to an argument that the removing the border would have bugger all effect.
But you are wrong, by the way. There is undoubtedly a class of people like you or I for whom identity is the primary concern. But there are people for whom it matters less and other things figure. Nationalists have to be salesmen, ultimately, and salesmen have to handle objections. An economic objection would be a fairly significant one.
“But this mistaken analysis by SF has some benefits. Almost no Protestants want a united Ireland and about 25% of Catholics want to maintain the Union (and more are easy either way). So even with differences in population growth that means there will never be an NI majority for Irish unity. So why have Republicans accepted the current agreement? Well they console themselves with the idea that the Unionist population will soon come round to the self-evident (to them) benefits of unity.”
First up, the evidence for 25% of Catholics wanting to maintain the Union is shaky especially when most vote for pro-UI parties. Moreover, 90+% is easy to maintain when there is a violent campaign going on. As that fades, there is more room for a proper debate to change the figure. Second, it is unrealistic to suggest that a United Ireland is going to happen without some political movement for it.
“As we go through the 21st century I predict that Irish unity will always be about 20 years away. “Next year in Jersusalemâ€.”
Demographic trends are still shifting Nationalisms way. Unionism as a percentage is going to continue to decline. Whether that will bring us to the magic 50%+1 point is another matter, but politics is here are going to change.
“Why were SF rejected?â€
They weren’t. They got 6.9% of the 1st pref vote, more than the 4.7% of the Greens, a comparable new movement, though less seats. No Party won an outright majority. Why didn’t the Greens win 20% of the vote, or even 6.9%? Why does the electorate prefer people with criminal convictions to those who care about the environment?
And why did the Immigration Control Platform do so badly? They are comparible to SF, they stand for more Irishness and less foreign intervention, but they got nowhere. If they’d stood as Monster Raving Loonies, they would have done better.
I suppose it is a bit optimistic to think you can just walk in to an election and say “Hey we’ve got a brilliant new idea, vote for us.†You have to put a bit more work into it than that.
The question is not why people didn’t vote for SF, but why they did.
In proximity to the border, I can understand this. But why North Kerry? Reading the Wikipedia entry on Martin Ferris, I find he has credentials in opposing local drug dealers.
So all is explained. The appeal of paramilitarism, be it Republican or Loyalist, is that it maintains social justice in a way the current alliance of police and lawyers do not. Persons considered to be anti-social are effectively eliminated. The fabric of society is not allowed to decay through lack of intervention. SF, if they wish to increase their vote, will continue to go down this path; the other parties, if they wish to stop them, would be well advised to start tackling these problems themselves.
Kensei,
Good link and good post in reply to the Tom Griffin’s piece. On the point of self-sufficiency Alliance recently announced a commitment to Northern Irish economic self-sufficiency. This may seem pie-in-the-sky to nay-sayer unionists or dangerously Ulster independence to nationalists but I believe the thinking is that by making this the core measure of our progress we are compelled to increase the private economy (through tax harmonisation or other compensation for differences on the island), to shrink the public sector (which can only be done through social integration) and maybe as importantly to produce cleaner and more transparent accounts for just what Northern Ireland does and does not contribute to the UK economy.
Jaffa, the Jews had to wait abot 1800 years before they got back in Jerusalem…
I’m also a Bangor prod with a centre-right economic disposition. Terrorism certainly made it inconceivable to reward the Eniiskillen bombers. But fewer than about 5% of Prods are in in favour of a united Ireland whereas about 25% of Catholics are for the Union. As peace and prosperity return there will be an even larger section of both communities who will want to stick with the status quo rather than risk stirrng up the Troubles agin.
So I stand by what I said. A united Ireland is statistically very, very unlikely.
the evidence for 25% of Catholics wanting to maintain the Union is shaky especially when most vote for pro-UI parties.
that’s a poor justification kensei.
what percentage of the RC population in NI vote SF and what percentage vote SDLP ?
Can the SDLP be truely called pro-unification or are they paying the same sort of lip service as FF and FG ?
SF claim to be the only mainstream party that is serious about unification – even if we take their high vote of 180,000 – there are a lot more than
360,000 RC voters in NI.
just because large numbers vote for nominally unification parties doesn’t mean a lot – as seen in the ROI.
“that’s a poor justification kensei.”
Rather better justification than extremely flawed opinion polls.
Paul,
“Jaffa, the Jews had to wait abot 1800 years before they got back in Jerusalem… ”
True!
“A united Ireland is statistically very, very unlikely.”
Depends. I really, really dislike the “51%+ and we win stuff” but populations don’t seem to trickle into new opinions – they reach tipping points and then they’re “converted” en mass.
I think if you dissected the 95% of prod opinion and broke down the reasons for saying know you’d find 30% or so that would be relatively easy wins for reunification. I suppose I’m thinking of “Trinity” prods, sporting types used to all-Ireland events, people with business interests running up against the border who’d rather trade down the east coast than beyond the Bann where the population’s more scarce and skint.
not much of an answer kensei !
can the SDLP really be called pro-unification?
There’s no way that you can extrapolate from 180,000 SF voters to claim that most RCs ….
That’s only about a third of the RC electorate.
“Why were SF rejected?â€
They weren’t. They got 6.9% of the 1st pref vote, more than the 4.7% of the Greens, a comparable new movement, though less seats.”
I’d suggest this shows that SF have more die-hard voters than the Greens but have nothing to offer mainstream voters and so don’t get transfers from people for whom the North isn’t the be-all and end-all of political discussion. It is a rejection of SF by the mainstream.
I also fail to see how the Greens are a comparable new movement to SF.
“And why did the Immigration Control Platform do so badly?”
They are not even a party but a single issue “platform” and are seen by many as out and out racists.
“The question is not why people didn’t vote for SF, but why they did.
In proximity to the border, I can understand this. But why North Kerry?”
Much of the fighting (and atrocities) in the Civil War took place in Kerry and republicanism has always been stronger there than in another other southern county.
is there a site with details such as total votes cast for the parties and percentages, majorities etc ?
“can the SDLP really be called pro-unification?”
I’d suggest you ask El Matador.
Maggot,
http://www.guthanphobail.net/dail-20070524.htm
Good for the last 35 years.
It’s in Irish though.
Let’s face it. If any unionist pol — oh, let’s face it, even any apolitical Northern Protestant — had come out with the statements Ahern did before the election about refusing to share power with SF, he or she would have been branded a sectarian maggot (no offense to the actual Maggot the poster).
I remember seeing a mailing list for Friends of FÃanna Fail in NYC in the ’80s, when that was still legal. The leadership of NORAID, the FDNY and NYPD Emerald Societies, leaders of American unions and owners of construction firms. Do you think FF was packing them in to fund-raising dinners and raking in thousands of US dollars making fiery denounciations of the PIRA campagin (this was all very much pre-ceasefire) and passionate defenses of constitution nationalism? No, they were not. They were selling themselves as the “republican” party, in every sense of that word.
Now, PIRA has finally gone and put their weapons well and beyond use, SF have joined the policing boards, and FF announces they will not share power with them and people actually believe it stands for something other than protecting the fortunes of FF.
Ciaran Parker at irishelection.com is on the money in his exasperation with the Southern electorate’s highly sophisticated and principled opting “or a continuation of a third-world hospital system, schooling characterised by inequality and class over-crowding, and the perpetuation of a “cute hoor†culture with significant levels of background corruption and the protection of criminality and illegality so long as the perpetrators are party members, supporters or donors.”
http://www.irishelection.com/05/the-results-in-cavan-monaghan-fuck-me-baby-one-mo-time/#more-2126
It is human understandable that protection of property prices are a priority for hard-working voters, but despite unprecedented growth the shocking insufficiencies of Ireland’s two-tier health system are growing worse under Ahearn and Harney. As if the blatantly two-tier system in screening, treatment and palliative care hadn’t cost enough lives, now they want to apply it to A & E.
Giving developers everything want and communities little that they need will cause long term social and eventually economic problems in the not so distant future. And who will get blamed? Again, I’ll quote Parker: “When that happens (as it surely will) we can always blame the fucking foreigners, the unemployed, the disabled, the travellers – the usual suspects – and we’ll keep voting for Destiny’s By-Children for ever and ever.”
Chris Gaskin’s criticisms of SF’s campaign in the South are on target. The huge growth in support for FG is more anti-Bertie than pro-FG, but FG were perceived as having a snowball’s chance of getting FF out. As for offering detailed criticisms of FF and alternative strategies, Labour did, SF did not.
George/Maggot, the English version of Guthanphobail is at
http://www.election.polarbears.com/online/da2002.htm
covers all elections with detailed counts 1982-2002.
For earlier elections the following gives results, although sadly only first preferences (and the SF that they have listed pre-1982 are actually the forerunners of the Workers Party.)
http://www.electionsireland.org/results/general/general.cfm
“I suppose I’m thinking of “Trinity†prods, sporting types used to all-Ireland events, people with business interests running up against the border who’d rather trade down the east coast than beyond the Bann where the population’s more scarce and skint.”
There’s a thought. Could we have a referendum on swapping Fermanagh, Tyrone, Derry and South Armagh for Dublin 4 please?
“Now, PIRA has finally gone and put their weapons well and beyond use, SF have joined the policing boards, and FF announces they will not share power with them and people actually believe it stands for something other than protecting the fortunes of FF”
In fairness to FF (and all the other parties), they made it explicit that their aversion to sharing power with Sinn Fein was down to their economic policies.
Niall, does that mean it should have been acceptable for Ian Paisley to continue refuse to share power with SF, provided his aversion was down to their economic policies and not links to PIRA?
Susan,
Northern Ireland has a mandatory coalition system, the Republic has a voluntary one. A world of difference.
Ahern has stated he would go into gov’t with Labour, despite differences with their economic policies. And given the state of healthcare — and given the state of health of various family members — I would welcome seeing Labour’s Brendan Howlin and Michael D. Higgins in positions of influence.
I’m aware of that George, thanks.
Susan,
The DUP (and the Doc in particular) have claimed that the British government made it clear that unionism would find any alternative to powersharing very uncomfortable.
Forget all the nonsense about democratic principles when what unionists really mean is tactics. For the moment unionists have no alternative to powersharing.
I understand that, too, lib2016. I agree with power-sharing.
“Niall, does that mean it should have been acceptable for Ian Paisley to continue refuse to share power with SF, provided his aversion was down to their economic policies and not links to PIRA?”
Not relevant, Susan, as George has pointed out the two political situations are vastly different.
“Ahern has stated he would go into gov’t with Labour, despite differences with their economic policies.”
Labour are a middle of the road party, not a Marxist one as Sinn Fein are. Labour were the first party to announce a tax cut in the election campaign.
There is a gulf between Sinn Fein’s stance on economic issues and all the other southern parties. One can even ask whether Sinn Fein have an economics policy.
Jaffa
Alliance’s motion was also designed to make NI self-sufficient so that it realistically could, if it so chose, merge with the Republic.
Ian,
Good man. When we annex the 26 counties we don’t want them whinging that we’re costing them money. They can sell Leinster House to help cover the costs anyway. Monte Casino has a better view.