Official documents for SF minister Conor Murphy are not to refer to Northern Ireland. An internal memo has told staff of a range of alternative phraseology to be used. Conor Murphy has denied it was his instruction saying he was asked for his preferences.
Having somehow managed to avoid watching a single episode of the widely praised West Wing TV series I was delighted to discover the entire Box set in my Christmas stocking – and with enough spare time over the holidays to give it a good lash. But with 10 episodes of the first series under my [...] read our review »
Somehow I escaped reading this essential school text, with its story of racism in 1930s American South. Living in Northern Ireland, I draw parallels with sectarianism, with its similar bigotry and prejudice. To Kill a Mockingbird was part of a Unite Against Hate campaign event at Parliament Buildings in Northern Ireland, which I’ve written [...] read our review »
“Yeah, try thinking that one through again. Partition versus unity? All the same country, load of Scots-Irish “hill billies†trying to break off so they can treat people shitty.”
Just to clear things up, the US Civil War was’nt fought soley over the emancipation issue, this is a popular misconception (I blame TV), as large portions of the Union states benefited from cheap labour in the southern con. states and where against Lincolns fancy British/French ideas.
PS. If anyone wants to know, I have 6 A levels and 2 spirit levels.
)
Cahal
[i]D.O., you don’t sound very diluted to me. Perhaps Pure Orange would be more appropriate, or Deluded Orange.[/i]
To be fair you are probably reading over the last 2 pages of comments when you make that assumption about me, which pretty much went off topic and resulted in a slanging match between BP and me because he took offence at me characterising Conor Murphy as a hood due to his IRA past.
Let’s not go down that road again. I imagine that you and I have differing opinions on the character traits of Conor Murphy. Neither mindset is going to change drastically over the course of another slanging match.
[i]It amazes me that unionists get annoyed about this sort of thing. Jeez, I call it the north all the time, nobody bats an eyelid. The BBC leans to the unionist side calling it Ulster and the Province; again who gives a fuck. [/i]
If you want to call it the ‘North’ then fine by me – as you say who gives a fuck? Horror of horrors, I’ve even used the term myself – especially when talking to folk from Dublin etc and you are speaking to someone on an all-Ireland basis if you get what I mean.
I just find it very odd that the 2 words ‘Northern Ireland’ seem to fill some Nationalists with dread. They don’t want to utter the words ever and like Conor Murphy will make a point of never saying it. In some way they seem to want to compensate for the fact that there isn’t a United Ireland by denying that NI exists. Yet as I’ve stated earlier (way earlier) on this thread these same people have no problem using the
terms ‘Ulster’, ‘Leinster’, ‘County Armagh’, … etc, when just like the entity ‘Northern Ireland’ these categorisations of parts of Ireland were invented by the English.
So how come there isn’t the same abdomination reserved for these terms? In fact a completely different attitude tends to be adopted by Nationalist with regards to being from a particular county or province. Nationalists tend to have a lot more pride in being from a certain county or province than Unionists do, even though they are taking pride in being from a region, the boundaries of which were shaped by the English oppressor.
The issue I have with Conor Murphy (his past history aside) is that he has [i]insisted[/i] that civil servants refer to Northern Ireland as the ‘North’ in official speeches etc. You would think that it’s not much to expect that a minister for Northern Ireland, representing Northern Ireland, being paid by the government of Northern Ireland refers to the country/state as such when speaking about it.
The fact that he has made a point of delibrately air-brushing the name of the state from any of his work is symptomatic of his desire to deny that NI exists. As such, I just don’t see how he can be effective in his job of promoting Northern Ireland and ensuring that people’s lives get better here if he adopts such a petty attitude, especially when it is to the detriment of his long-term political aspirations if he succeeds in his role.
British ideas?
The guys who supported the Confederacy?
“Ziznivy
“I think that it is fair to say…â€
You admitted yourself there was a “kernel of truth†to the point about the equating of “disloyalty†with “criminalityâ€.”
Covered in category B.
“Just to clear things up, the US Civil War was’nt fought soley over the emancipation issue, this is a popular misconception (I blame TV), as large portions of the Union states benefited from cheap labour in the southern con. states and where against Lincolns fancy British/French ideas.”
Sure. And partition didn’t happens solely because Unionists were afraid of Nationalist majority rule. But in both instances, it was certainly a big factor, probably the key factor. And seeing as how it was less a piece of serious historical analysis, and more, you know, a wee reply to suggest how darth’s analogy might be taken another way, perhaps best not to make too much of it.
“British ideas?
The guys who supported the Confederacy? ”
Indeed they did, though more because they needed the southern cotton than any pro-slavery sentiment. Lincoln , of course, was a reluctant emapcipationist. And as a cynical calculation for which the Foreign office is still renowned, it never does any harm to weaken one’s major competitor for political domination.
Also, to be fair, Lincoln’s Republicans were very much more anti-British than the Confederacy, and again the impact of Irish emigrants in northern cities was starting to be felt. They weren’t the establishment, but they were too large in numbers to ignore.
BTW if Plug Poots,,our Minister for Fun, visited the Brandywell at the invitation of Jim Roddy, and talked about the Football Association of “there” or the “South” there’d be collective apoplexy from some of the Murphia defenders on this thread.
…and BTW way again, if Ulster is the nine counties of which we are all so proud, why is it that people wearing the colours of its rugby team have been thumped in Londonderry, and why is it that so few Ulstermen in Crossmaglen, Coalisland, or Cootehill seem to supprt them? it’s not as if they play at Windsor Park.You’d almost think they were ashamed to be Ulstermen.
“…and BTW way again, if Ulster is the nine counties of which we are all so proud, why is it that people wearing the colours of its rugby team have been thumped in Londonderry, and why is it that so few Ulstermen in Crossmaglen, Coalisland, or Cootehill seem to supprt them? it’s not as if they play at Windsor Park.You’d almost think they were ashamed to be Ulstermen.”
Relative lack of interest in rugby? I’d wager there aren’t even really that many Ireland rugby tops in comparison to football or GAA, and most of them that are about are probably down to Ireland getting more publicity recently. Ulster have done ok, but you can hardly compare the coverage.
“Ulster have done ok, but you can hardly compare the coverage.”
True up to a point
But would I get a smack in the teeth if I wore my Irish cricket top in the Bogside?
But would I get a smack in the teeth if I wore my Irish cricket top in the Bogside?
I doubt it, Darth. Even Martin McGuinness has come out of the cricket-supporting closet in the wake of the World Cup.
Link
…yet not for the White Knights (yuk-ghastly name). Is it becauses I’s…middle class??
DO
” just find it very odd that the 2 words ‘Northern Ireland’ seem to fill some Nationalists with dread.”
I wouldn’t say ‘dread’. It’s just something i grew up with. I guess the only people I heard calling it ‘Northern Ireland’ were unionist politicians or British politicians. I then naturally associated the term with that ‘side’. Perhaps it conveys legitamacy on the place, and remember most nationalists, while recognising the place exists, view the north as an entirely illegitamte/undemocratic entity.
“They don’t want to utter the words ever and like Conor Murphy will make a point of never saying it”.
I don’t make a point of never saying it, it comes quite naturally. Like Derry. I dont make an effort not to say Londonderry.
“In some way they seem to want to compensate for the fact that there isn’t a United Ireland by denying that NI exists.”
Nah. It exists alright. Doesn’t mean it’s right though.
“Yet as I’ve stated earlier (way earlier) on this thread these same people have no problem using the
terms ‘Ulster’, ‘Leinster’, ‘County Armagh’, … etc, when just like the entity ‘Northern Ireland’ these categorisations of parts of Ireland were invented by the English.
”
Yeah but these terms are failry inocuous. They don’t indicate your country has been forcefully and undemocratically split into two states by a neighboring country.
“The issue I have with Conor Murphy (his past history aside) is that he has insisted that civil servants refer to Northern Ireland as the ‘North’ in official speeches etc.”
I think you misunderstand. These guys are writing statements which are supposed to be coming from him. If one of his assistants wrote ‘Northern Ireland’ I would immediately be aware he had never laid eyes on the statement.
Anyways, I don’t see the big deal. Call the place whatever you want. Hopefully it won’t be around for much longer.
[i]“I think you misunderstand. These guys are writing statements which are supposed to be coming from him. If one of his assistants wrote ‘Northern Ireland’ I would immediately be aware he had never laid eyes on the statement.”[/i]
I’m sure Conor Murphy is smart enough to ad-lib, you know replace ‘Northern Ireland’ with the ‘North’ if it comes up in a speech – it’s not difficult. Instead he’s decided to try and instill his own political mindset and agenda amongst his civil servants.
At the end of the day the proof will be in the pudding as to whether he performs adequately in his role or not in serving Northern Ireland. I just suspect that this is the beginning of a frustrating ‘next stage of the struggle’ for Sinn Fein, where instead of meeting the needs of the Northern Irish people they will endlessly pursue their own agenda and play silly beggars in some misguided belief that it will lead to a United Ireland.
[i]“Call the place whatever you want. Hopefully it won’t be around for much longer.”[/i]
This is indicative of one of the most annoying things that I currently find about the prevailing attitude in Nationalism. How long have we been hearing about the rising birth rate etc? By all accounts we should be in a United Ireland by now. It seems that some people are content to sit back and wait for that distant day in the future when the sectarian headcount goes their way. Until then, be it several decades or not, there’s no need to bother trying to make NI work or try and at least improve relations with Unionists. Instead it seems that it’s much more productive to waste half our life-times until the dream of Irish Unity is finally achieved. What if that day never comes?
Would it not be better that if in the eventuality of a United Ireland coming about we at least had some sort of cross-community spirit and some sort of functional economy up and running instead of simply taking a basket case state from within the UK borders to within the RoI and simply swapping a disgruntled Catholic community for a disgruntled Protestant community? At the current rate of going that is exactly what’s going to happen and any pipe-dreams that folk have about a United Ireland being so much better than our current predicament will be unfounded.
what a boring discussion : Conor is a Minister, his word is writ in the CS, the rest of u, fcuk off.
DO
“I’m sure Conor Murphy is smart enough to ad-lib, you know replace ‘Northern Ireland’ with the ‘North’ if it comes up in a speech – it’s not difficult. Instead he’s decided to try and instill his own political mindset and agenda amongst his civil servants.”
Again you have misunderstood I’m afraid. These aren’t speeches. They are things like press releases which Murphy is unlikely to even see, never mind read.
” Until then, be it several decades or not, there’s no need to bother trying to make NI work or try and at least improve relations with Unionists. ”
Well, you lot are berating the SF unionist outreach woman on the other thread.
“Instead it seems that it’s much more productive to waste half our life-times until the dream of Irish Unity is finally achieved.”
How is it a waste if the intended goal is achieved? That makes no sense.
“What if that day never comes?”
So you never do anything unless you are guaranteed a positive outcome? Very boring D.O.
“Would it not be better that if in the eventuality of a United Ireland coming about we at least had some sort of cross-community spirit and some sort of functional economy up and running…..”
Isn’t that what the assembly is all about. You know, the thing unionists were dragged into kicking and screaming.
Anyway D.O., don’t stress to much about a UI. You’ll still be able to buy bowler hats, do the funny marches, burn tyres, watch coronation street and do all that other British stuff youse enjoy. Sure it’ll be great fun.
Cahal are you saying a real Nationalist won’t watch Corrie? You guys are missing out on some comedy gold.
…and BTW way again, if Ulster is the nine counties of which we are all so proud, why is it that people wearing the colours of its rugby team have been thumped in Londonderry, and why is it that so few Ulstermen in Crossmaglen, Coalisland, or Cootehill seem to supprt them?
Maybe they prefer proper rugby.
Pounder, no way, hate that shite. Everybody down the pub complaining about being broke – I can do that in real life.