Sinn Fein’s stock arguments for engaging Unionists?
Calton Radio has some interesting material, which they claim originates with the Sinn Fein Unionist outreach department. It’s an interesting (and characteristically robust) espousal of the case for re-unification. Some the figures are fascinating, though it’s not clear how the party’s own strangely protean economic policy itself addresses the statement that “we are spending 20% more than we create”. Look out for “the islands” too: an apparently freshly minted ‘unionist friendly’ term that appears to have just come into use since the deal was declared live.
Confirmation: Its a Basket Case – the 6 Counties Economy1. 26 Counties – the IDA created 100 thousand jobs last year 2006. In the 6C – Only 95 thousand jobs created in the 10 year period called the Golden Years – never created more than that over a ten year period
2. In the 6C – 100 companies employ 26 thousand people – compared to 1000 companies employing 130 thousand people in the 26C
3. R&D investment – lowest in the 6C compared to England, Scotland, Wales or 26C
4. 6C as the lowest number of women entering business
5. Manufacturing business – decimated;
6. 9% of those employed are in defence and those jobs are under threat
7. The 6C economy is primarily service sector dominated – low wage, part time work.
8. Gross Disposal Income – GDI – second lowest across the Islands at 14%
9. Very low skilled levels in the 6C – 28% of population have no qualifications;
10. The result is that you have sectors that do not produce wealth – the economy is therefore a basket case – coupled with 30 years of infrastructure neglect.
11. Barnett formula – the allocation of money we get from the BG – is designed to bring 6C, Scotland and Wales together to level of per capital as in England – which is much lower.
12. Pump priming the economy – we are spending 20% more than we create.
13. North has the worst motor ways in Europe – lacks 4th in the worst world league tables.
14. Economic inactivity – the percentage of those at working age who are economically in-active – 28% not working or looking for work.
15. 11% of those at working age are on incapacity benefit
16. Net result of all of that is the depression – we need 140 thousand new jobs just to stand still.
17. No way forward for the North on its own – Even British Minister Hain says it’s unsustainable.
“Better to die on your feet than live on your knees in an Irish Republic. We will never forsake the blue skies of Ulster for the grey mist of an Irish Republic”
you may well find it funny but it is true for me as well as True Loyalist and i bet true for almost all the unionists on here.
lets here it again
Better to die on your feet than live on your knees in an Irish Republic !
Damn right Mr. Loyalist.
[i]Better to die on your feet than live on your knees in an Irish Republic ![/i]
Who said anything about letting you live?
well, the rhetoric of the republican has always been the polar oposite of his actions and ambitions regarding the prods, but thanks for being one of the few to admit it,
quick lad, Gerry McGough awaits !
The point is that any future united Ireland will come about as a result of attraction rather than the sort of hard-sell embodied here.
These are valid points but they won’t really change anyone’s mind. That will happen as a result of political changes, possibly including the breakup of the UK.
Bertie’s speech today was spoton in saying that the EU shows a new way forward towards unity. The nationstate may well soon be as dated as the city state or the European empires.
Irish nationalists find nothing attractive about Westminster in comparison to ties with Dublin and Brussels. They are still a growing part of the population here and it’s difficult to see what alternative way forward unionists can propose which would change their minds.
well, the rhetoric of the republican has always been the polar oposite of his actions
Good job you can’t say that about unionists, dontchathink?
http://u.tv/newsroom/indepth.asp?id=75123&pt=n
True British Loyalist, or should I say DVnine, go back home to Calton. The big boys play here. You need to know what you are talking about (well, at least have a smidgin of a clue)to have a chance.
KENSEI “”“2. In the 6C – 100 companies employ 26 thousand people – compared to 1000 companies employing 130 thousand people in the 26Câ€
So a typical NI company is twice the size of a typical RoI company – 260 employees to 130 employees per company. “
Er, how many times does the NI population go into the ROI population again? I’d hate to think you weren’t making a valid comparison even by the most basicist of basic measures.”
The point I am making is that why do they compare 100 companies in NI with 1000 companies in RoI? Are they saying that there are only 100 companies in NI? This is clearly nonsense as a brief glance at the yellow pages will show. Surely they should compare 100 in NI with 100 in RoI if they want to make some sort of point about employment levels. It’s just so shoddy that it either renders their arguement useless or makes you suspect Carlton are making it up to make SF look stupid.
“The point I am making is that why do they compare 100 companies in NI with 1000 companies in RoI? Are they saying that there are only 100 companies in NI? This is clearly nonsense as a brief glance at the yellow pages will show. Surely they should compare 100 in NI with 100 in RoI if they want to make some sort of point about employment levels. It’s just so shoddy that it either renders their arguement useless or makes you suspect Carlton are making it up to make SF look stupid.”
The point being made is nothing to do with size of companies, I was being facetious. The point is in terms of the depth and the business base that the two parts of the island have; and the subsequent consequences for the resilience of the respective economies. I think the truth is even worse than those figures suggest, in that there are very few large employers here and there are very few HQs.
I should have thought the point obvious, but apparently not.
Juan
Good analysis of SF’s shortcomings in relation to this issue. Lets keep working to make sure they’re exposed and a prosperous NI can emerge. As our friend says,
“Better to die on your feet than live on your knees in an Irish Republic. We will never forsake the blue skies of Ulster for the grey mist of an Irish Republicâ€
“Better to die on your feet than live on your knees in an Irish Republic. We will never forsake the blue skies of Ulster for the grey mist of an Irish Republicâ€
Yes it is better to die on your feet than live on your knees in an Irish republic. I would rather die fighting than give an inch to IRA/SF, but it seems Paisley’s Lundy’s have given most of what was bargined for by true Loyalists in 1998.
If Trimble offered an inch, IRA/SF took a mile, and now that Paisley/Lundy is top dog, the process will begin all over again. If those of you who read this wish to live in an Irish republic f**k off down south and live in one. Ulster is forever British, and no ammounts of IRA/SF bullets, or any form of anti-British action by the pan-nationalist front will change that.
I ask the question again, if Ba Ba Bertie has stated that he will NOT go into government with IRA/SF, why should the people of Ulster have them forced into government on us?
If IRA/SF are now totally commited to “dmocracy” then why have they not let the location of the disapeared bodies be known? Why if they are now in favour of the nationalist orientated PSNI, will they not give information to the PSNI on the Omagh Bomb, which they have never denied having? If IRA/SF is agaist criminality why is Martin “Deputy Dag” McGuiness’s brother-in-law being held on remand on suspision of murder?
Don’t tell me that wee Marty does not have knowledge of what happened to the two people who were abducted from the ocupied 26 counties known as the republic of ireland and murdered in an IRA/SF stronghold in Londonderry. He, as former IRA/SF commander of Londonderry would have all the information that the PSNI would need to bring those two people’s killers to justice.
In short, to sum up IRA/SF a snake may shed its skin, but it will always be a snake and is never to be trusted.
Quis Separabit
“Better to die on your feet than live on your knees in an Irish Republic. We will never forsake the blue skies of Ulster for the grey mist of an Irish Republicâ€
But what if we don’t want to fight? Who you gonna drag kicking and screaming into the pit whilst we’re sitting about building a country for us all? And besides if it weren’t for us you’ll all just drowned sitting on the beach in Portrush ordering back the tide.
And in what may be considered the final straw and dastardly SFIRA lies and propaganda – blue skies honestly are not synonymous with Ulster. If its blue skies y’all want then hows about moving to Malin Head? (http://www.inishowenonline.com/malin_head.htm)
That would be in that misty old republicfor the geographically challenged, and the most northerly point of the island – so no need to even “f**k off down south” TBL you’ll be glad to hear.
‘True British Loyalist’, my a***! More like crass attempt by troll to make Prods look like the not-an-inch b1gots & thickos that certain elements in the North delight in them appearing as, thus making their views appear so much more enlightened & reasonable…for feck’s grow up!! And please, contributors, stop rising to the pathetic troll bait!!
Dissenter
As a republican, let me agree with you – True British Loyalist is not remotely representative of unionism, in my experience. The nationalist/republican side of the community has its own embarrassing throwbacks (hello Gerry McGeough!) and it’s tiresome when they are treated by unionists as somehow representing “the true feelings of nationalists” or things like that.
Though I don’t think TBL is a troll – there actually ARE people out there like that. (Just look at Calton Radio!) The important thing to remember though, is that they are a tiny minority.
Looks like Sinn Fein are still leaking like an old boat.
Oh yes, it is so easy to cast stones at what I beleive in, and cosy up to IRA/SF members/supporters or the wider pan-nationalist front, rather to look at the bigger picture and see that the education of your children is now in the hands of the apologists of child killers. What is wrong with hating the fibre of IRA/SF and what they want?
Why is it so hard to grasp for some alledged unionists and loyalists to see that they should not be in the position of power hat they are now in?
I may sound like a bigot, but I am not. All I ask is that my beloved Ulster should not be under the ilk of IRA/SF child killers and their apologists. Ulster is BRITISH, and will remain so long after Adams and co are food for the worms in dear old Milltown.
I wonder how many proud irish republicans claim the dole from HM Government, or how many of them cream the British benifit system?
If the hand of friendship is offered by IRA/SF, then it should be cut off. A leopard will never change its spots.
FREE MICHAEL STONE
quis separabit
You’ve got it all wrong; its better to live on your feet than die on your knees. Simple mistake to make.
True British Loyalist, keep it up. It’s people like you that made me re-examine my own beliefs. Most people here know that the word Protestant is not just another synonym for Loyalist.
True British Loyalist…you are welcome to your beloved Britain! One day Nationalist Ireland will be purged of the mongrel/planter interlopers and be a pure Gaelic nation once again!! And while we’re at it, we’ll never support your Proddy Northern Ireland football team that dares to wear the emerald green of Ireland on their backs..show your true colours and wear Orange or the Union Jack butcher’s apron of red white and blue!!
“Paisley’s Lundy’s have given most of what was bargined for by true Loyalists in 1998. ”
Ah hah now we get to the bottom of this, its not a person of high morals, its not a bretheren, its not an ex -duper, its either a UUP stooge or a loyalist paramilitary. Lol this is brilliant i actually believed for a minute that this was someone who had issues to settle but instead its someone who has a chip on their shoulder from 1998. Haha brilliant the true face always shines brightest in the end
so u were happy for all the agreements to be done in 1998 then?? Dont you just love sniffing out hypocrisy!!
Me thinks the days when the ‘cafe catholics’ on slugger could cock a snook at the David Vance and the gang are receeding into the past…..
what a farce.
TBL:
FREE MICHAEL STONE
I was clicking on that like crazy – thought it was a link to a site where they gave away free performance artists with mental instabilities. Was hoping to put mine in the corner of the sitting room for evening entertainment sayin as I have no telly. Would even get a revolving door installed to while away the hours watching his antics.
Sorry TBL, I thought you were DVnine on Calton. Didn’t realize it was Grim_reaper. Tweedledee and Tweedledumb.
Not too long ago, you were suggesting that the British forces should have used tactics similar to the SS. Some Loyalist!
What a strange site Calton is. If you spend any time reading it, you develop a headache pretty quick.
The fact that its stated pretty clearly, that its NOT a cross community forum and therefore people should not be attempting to convince them that their views are wrong shows how open to views they are. Its a backslapping site.
at first read i thought that list was a joke. did a group of adults come up with it, or was it a 13 year old school boy? its laughable the way nationalists will try their best to come up with a word or phrase to avoid saying the name of the country they are talking about. its called northern ireland, get over it. if you dont want people to laugh at you then try using the same words that adults use. look at the way they call the republic 26 counties, but try to reduce NI even further by only giving it a ‘c’. the only reaction to this im afraid is to split your sides laughing and then stick your tongue against your bottom lip and go ‘duuuuuuuhhh!’
as for the points raised, i dont see how any of them are an argument to leave the UK and join the ROI.
The republic has created more jobs than NI, what a shocker !! theres me thinking that because we are only a third of the size of the ROI we should be able to create the same amount of jobs !
“Manufacturing business – decimated;”
i think we’re all aware of the lack of demand for flax products these days and ships are made in the far east where its cheaper than NI, or should i say all the other western countries too !
what has that got to do with the ROI???
“North has the worst motor ways in Europe”
i must have missed the SF europe wide motorway survey, but what has that got to do with joining the ROI?
the rest of the list is just statements and figures which are probably all untrue. if the best argument they can come up with is “because peter hain said so” then i dont think any unionist need take much notice. unless they want a good giggle that is.
i live in dublin and belfast and the fact is that there is nothing in the ROI to draw us out of the UK and into the ROI. economies of scale mean that we will always have more goods and services to choose from in the UK. alot of the time down here you pay more for less. in the UK there must be 100+ internet service providers. in the ROI there are only a couple. the result is the in the UK you can get unlimited cheap fast broadband with no download limits. but in the ROI you pay more for a slower speed and its capped at 2gig (or something). thats the reality of moving from one country to one a tenith its size.
the reason you never hear a convincing argument to join the ROI is because there isnt one !
Juan
“Me thinks the days when the ‘cafe catholics’ on slugger could cock a snook at the David Vance and the gang are receeding into the past…..”
Eh?
I am starting to think that this is actually not an outreach to unionists but an attempt to keep the united Ireland agenda on the boiler. Since we now have peace and equality, the last remaining motivation for a united Ireland is economics. While this will never motivate the prods, it must be aimed at the between 20% and 50% of Catholics who are not interested in a United Ireland. The worst thing for the UI agenda is prosperity in Northern Ireland, which we clearly have. Prosperous people are not interested in risking it, so the list is an attempt to persuade Catholics that the grass is greener on the other side and not to lose the faith.
Trouble is that it is so riddled with errors that it defeats itself: For example, the IDA created 12,623 jobs in 2005 and the 2006 report is not available on their website.
“The republic has created more jobs than NI, what a shocker !! theres me thinking that because we are only a third of the size of the ROI we should be able to create the same amount of jobs !”
Does anyone in here understand any Maths?
The answer is simple. Those that want to live in an irish republic, can hop over the border and do so. There will NEVER be a united ireland, and as IRA/SF child killers have now unconditionally surrendered the whole issue of a ui should be laid to rest. It will not happen.
The next thing to do, having got the unconditional surrender of IRA/SF, is to weed those who support child killers and their apologists out of our country and our local government. They have no place at the table with British citizens. They are scum and Ulster should be wiped clean of their ilk.
I notice that not one single person has answered my previous comments, so I will ask them again:if Ba Ba Bertie has stated that he will NOT go into government with IRA/SF, why should the people of Ulster have them forced into government on us?
If IRA/SF are now totally commited to “dmocracy†then why have they not let the location of the disapeared bodies be known? Why if they are now in favour of the nationalist orientated PSNI, will they not give information to the PSNI on the Omagh Bomb, which they have never denied having? If IRA/SF is agaist criminality why is Martin “Deputy Dag†McGuiness’s brother-in-law being held on remand on suspision of murder?
Don’t tell me that wee Marty does not have knowledge of what happened to the two people who were abducted from the ocupied 26 counties known as the republic of ireland and murdered in an IRA/SF stronghold in Londonderry. He, as former IRA/SF commander of Londonderry would have all the information that the PSNI would need to bring those two people’s killers to justice. So why has he not done so?
I will also repeat the TRUTH :“Better to die on your feet than live on your knees in an Irish Republic. We will never forsake the blue skies of Ulster for the grey mist of an Irish Republicâ€
Quis Separabit
TBL,
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz in an ideal society mate unfortunatley in life we all have to get on with each other. You haven’t answered my question of why you thought the 1998 agreement was a better one??negotiated by true loyalists??
TBL – not to mention your continued confusion on the blue skies in Ulster issue.
Although on the other hand you do have a point, Malin Head is in Ulster – you know that part in the misty republic and all that.