First Minister Ian Paisley and RoI Prime Minister Bertie Ahern are to meet at the Boyne site today. Paisley has rejected opposition claims that it will boost Bertie Ahern and Fianna Fail’s election campaign. The visitor centre is due to open next spring.
It’s not often we get free things to give away to our readers, but courtesy of Palgrave Macmillan we have a nice paperback copy of Brian M Walker’s excellent history of partition of the island and how identities shifted in both the north east and the south and west: as most of the territory that [...] read our review »
Coming up to the Halloween holiday, some people might be frightened of the idea of Voices from the Grave – but for others, the chance to hear an oral history of the Troubles from the mouths of two (in)famous protagonists, PUP leader and former UVF member David Ervine, and Brendan “The Dark” Hughes, is not [...] read our review »
Dr Gordon Gillespie, a researcher at the Institute of Irish Studies at Queen’s University Belfast, gave a presentation on “Graphic Portrayals: Northern Ireland, Graphic Novels and the Peace Process”, at the Linen Hall Library. Gordon started with a clarification that he was going to talk about graphic novels/comic books, not cartoons, and material that was [...] read our review »
Mr Paisley said it would show “how far we have come when we can celebrate and learn from the past”.
How disgusting to listen to that sort of remark from him of all people. How far WE have come? Cheek of him. How far you have come since you started your 50 years of hatred campaign would more like it.
I think with that above statement Ian Paisley is trying to denude any intelligent thinking, which is actually coming up with those claims in the first place.
It’s all a stage managed publicity stunt on both parts but I still can’t get my head around the complete volte-face of the DUP with its long-standing principles.
At least Sinn Fein had a strategy which you could second guess and which most people knew was going in this direction; but, the sheer underhandedness of the DUP to get where it is today is despicable, given the fact that it just wasted more time, created power vacuums, doubts which led to tension, all seemingly done in order to see that old octogenarian sit in a leather embossed seat at Stormont.
Politics, either recently in France or Northern Ireland too is all about stoking up fear, presenting the worse perception of what could ever happen, articulating that view and then offering up yourself and your Party as a means to overcome this perception.
So having acheived this, it’s just another bit part in the Paisley Empire PLC, Stormont and Churches and wealthy families.
For those with a clear mind and steady sense of purpose of the last 10 years, DUP politics are more than revolting they are unprincipled.
‘RoI’ doesn’t have a ‘Prime Minister’.
Pith,
You beat me to it by 1 min but bang-on you are too.
It’s a disgrace, and the commentator on Hearts and Minds last night was totally right with his take on how people feel about it all – people are not impressed with the two little ethnic wind-up merchants now sitting up on the hill all smiles.
I noticed on Slugger the profound shot of Paisley and Adams, noted as being the money shot but it was the headline close below it which stated 3,700 dead and to me that summed up the failure of both their politics. I felt uneasy at seeing it.
Correct Kevin,
and there is no such place as RoI no matter what the soccer team would have you believe. It’s Ireland, Éire or Éireann. Page one of the Irish Constitution.
And i think Prime Minister in Irish is Priomh Aire? So Bertie is certainly not prime minister.
Taoiseach Bertie Ahern, not Prime Minister Ahern. Unless you know something Gordon Brown doesn’t….
No matter what’s denied or promoted, Bertie has timed this as an election ploy, no bones about it, and would feel he’s probably owed and now calling in some of the perks from what he’s put into the whole thing. Top of the headlines, pushes policy issues into the background, and makes the southeners feel guilty if they were to boot out such a world statesman….
Well done on Mr Paisley for attending the site of the biggest papal victory in Irish history.
How times have changed.
Ian Paisley scores election points in the ROI.
who’d a thought it?
Election Checklist 2007
1. Kiss a baby.
2. Hug a pensioner.
3. Shake the Big Man’s hand.
Talk of kissing:
“I get down on my knees, and do what must be done
And kiss Achilles’ hand, the killer of my son.”
“And i think Prime Minister in Irish is Priomh Aire?”
Yes but what’s “Taoiseach” in English?
The literal translation is leader.
Erm….good point Ian. Kind of Clan Chief I think.
Although, at a push, I’m not sure it’s incumbent on FD to refer to Bertie as Taoiseach. I’m sure he would refer to President Sarkozy rather than Président Sarkozy.
On Raidió na Gaeltachta, Blair is PrÃomh Aire not Taoiseach.
Not legging it to get offended on this one
people are not impressed with the two little ethnic wind-up merchants now sitting up on the hill all smiles.
Well, they voted for them. You make your own bed and you have to lie in it.
Ian Paisley scores election points in the ROI.
I am Tommy. None of this is real. I am actually playing pinball. I am very good at pinball. No-one else can sense my demented dreams where Ian Paisley pops over the border to help the Taoiseach with an election stunt…
The Battle of the Boyne lasted less than two hours, some say even around 30 minutes. What an influence those few minutes have had on Irish history, even though the two kings fighting were English (one originally Dutch).
The Prime Minister of the Republic of Ireland will surely get little electoral credit for this.
“people are not impressed with the two little ethnic wind-up merchants now sitting up on the hill all smiles.
Well, they voted for them. You make your own bed and you have to lie in it.”
Having said that the argument is now running that the people kicked them off the street purposefully into Stormont so as to give our heads peace, if you like. At least this way they could do their arguing without violence but with the power they were craving and have now got. Hopefully it will lead to transparent politics, in so far as they can now be judged as to effectiveness of policy and ability.
Before, it was cloak and dagger politics and propaganda victories – now we will see what they are made of via Northern Ireland Assembly Offical Reports. Testing of their mettle.
merrie
“The Battle of the Boyne lasted less than two hours, some say even around 30 minutes”
Depends what you choose as your start and end point of the battle. Anyway it was hardly the Williamites’ fault the Jacobites scarpered so quickly
Just what DID they put in Paisley’s tea recently?
Was it a near-death experience that prompted his summersault?
Don’t get me wrong, I hope all of this works, but never surely has such a transformation been performed on the political stage.
Fair Deal:
>> the Jacobites scarpered so quickly
<<
You are right there, FD.
And then there was that panic that overcame the Irish at Kinsale. With regard to Kinsale I sometimes wonder whether Babd the goddess of war actually made a visit on that day.
After the momentous events today (and the few past weeks) I hope Unionists will be willing to pay a visit the Boyne site in county Meath.
Let a bit of optimism prevail.
>> never surely has such a transformation been performed on the political stage<<
GavBelfast: I think there were intimations that Paisley was turning a couple of years ago, but events overcame this. A false start. Also there are other Irish events which are similar, though not necessarily political:
1. Lundy at the Siege of Derry
2. The re-conversion of Miler Magrath
3. At the last minute James II changing his mind about fighting William of Orange at the Boyne.
What nickname would you give Ian Paisley?
Likewise Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom whereas the North of Ireland is not! And for the record where is Derry in Northern Ireland – not even the courts recognise it:P
Miler Magrath
I always wanted to set up a Miler Magrath Summer School on Ecumenism…
Am I the only one that imagines a playful slug on Paisley’s shoulder spiralling out of controlling and leading to a muddy fight on the banks of the Boyne?
Nothing Sectarian now… I just imagine both Bertie and Paisley as balls of rage. Don’t let Bertie fool you with his teddy bear eyes, the mans a killer.
“And for the record where is Derry in Northern Ireland – not even the courts recognise it”
Philip,
Try ringing DERRY City Council and they will help you to find it…!!
I hope there will be better road signage when the new centre opens. First time I only found the site by accident.
The second time I went to visit the site I thought I knew the way. There was the signpost to the “Battle of the Boyne”. I kept finding signs directing me to the site. I’d follow them and I ended up at the first sign.
Admittedly I am not very good at directions. Once when I was leaving Armagh, intending to return to Belfast, I found myself in Coalisland.
What nickname would you give Ian Paisley?
Posted by merrie on May 11, 2007 @ 01:52 PM
I’ll get back to you later when I’ve considered whether it would be worth a yellow (maybe even red) card to say, even in mirth!
What does tomorrow hold in store for him? Fulfilling his Sunday obligation by going to Saturday tea-time Mass before going to a Dana International Eurovision party and piss-up?
>>What nickname would you give Ian Paisley?<<
Those very reasonable people over at voice4democracy who don’t moderate their comments for dissent at all (honest) ;¬) have nicknamed him Pope Lundy the first. A cracker!
“Well done on Mr Paisley for attending the site of the biggest papal victory in Irish history. ”
It’s a shame the the RCs leave it up to us to commemorate it. Indeed Eleventh Night bonfires dhould actually have an efigy of the Pope concerned as honoured guest – and no I specifically meant not on the bonfire
Strange times we’re living through indeed.. Dr Paisley accused of helping Fianna Fail’s election campaign by visiting the Boyne with the Republic’s Premier… any time travellers from 1990 arriving here by accident, yes, it’s true, LSD has now replaced Guinness as the island’s drug of choice.
And what was Big Ian on when he said this:
“Certainly he is not going to go over the Boyne to take us over and I don`t know if we are going to have to go down it to get over.”
Translation please?
We won the batttle of the Boyne and we won the battle of Stormont No Surrender!
We won the batttle of the Boyne and we won the battle of Stormont No Surrender!
Posted by Truth & Justice on May 11, 2007 @ 09:40 PM
Oh dear!
“And i think Prime Minister in Irish is Priomh Aire?â€
Yes but what’s “Taoiseach†in English?
The word, though literally Clan Chief, was no doubt intended to be the equivalent of Fuehrer, Duce and Caudillo. The Kibbo Kift also had a silly title for their leader.
Truth & Justice: 9:40 pm – you left the Friday night knees-up at your Orange Lodge a little early, didn’t you?
Two foreign old monarchs in battle did join
Each wanting their head on the back of a coin
If the Irish had sense they’d drown both in the Boyne
And Partition throw into the ocean
-Dominic Behan
Merrie
I a girl so i hardly think im an Orangeman!
T&J: Are women banned from attending Orange Lodges?
T & J
just as a matter of interest how did “we” win the “battle” of Stormont? When was this great struggle exactly? Who are our hallowed dead, struck down in the cause? Jim Allister and the Ballymena councillors perhaps?
Unless “we” means you are one of the burgeoning group of Punt apparatciks employed by the MLAs, and “battle ” means the fight for pensions and mileage on top of salary.
I hope you’re just young, otherwise only staggering hypocrisy would allow you to forget the things Unionists were prepared to stand up for, all of which Marechal Petain has abandoned.
A quick refresher
1 No Dublin interference in NI
2. No SF/IRA in government
3. No mandatory coalition
4. Terrorism to be treated as crime and punished accordingly.
In the past the DUP were quite happy to break the law to defend these principles- so was I . Now we are told that the people have chosen this path-as they clearly have. But a principle is not dependant on the public’s endorsement. It is immutable, even if you’re the only one holding it.
Well I for one look forward to the collective squirming when the Pope visits NI and all our DUP ministers desperately find excuses to fill their diaries with functions in Ballygobackward rather than take their oil to give him a civic welcome
BTW paddyreilly what is the Tanaiste in English? Something like Prince of Wales/Dauphin perhaps?
And do confirm or deny the persistent rumour in unenlightened circles that the literal translation of Fianna Fail is rather more earthy than soldiers of destiny
Tánaiste is a deputy, not an anointed successor to the Taoiseach. In ancient times a Tánaiste would not necessarily expect to become Taoiseach, and another person could be appointed Tánaiste at any time (also without expectation of eventually becoming the head honcho)
The meaning of Fianna Fail is a little too modern for me to know!
It is interesting to read your list of unionist principles. It seems that the last unionist leader left standing has let unionists down. Only item 4 has been partly adhered to, and that not much.
Darth,
The “battle” for Stormont has been going on for decades. In what forum could the descendents of the planters have representation?(I myself have two young boys who will need political representation in the future.)
I don’t like the present sitation but believe the deal Robinson(not Paisley) is the best that could be achieved. The Unionist negotiating position was irretrievably compromised in 1998 (shouldn’t you know that first hand?). The DUP’s biggest blunder has been over spinning what really could be achieved, to get votes that they would have won anyway. But there has been some losses clawed back.
Dublin input in more accountable to Stormont assembly.
SF are no longer really Irish Republicans. FGS they now endorse the support of a British police force and justice system on the island of Ireland. This point has been massively undersold by the DUP.
Allister and the Ballymena councillors may claim never to have compromised their “principles” but what future would they have offered those who have a British identity living and working in Northern Ireland in 2040?
Back to the semantic nonsense about titles and translations, I see. There’s nothing like searching for offence and petty squabbling to avoid actually discussing and debating the big picture stuff is there?
Does anyone seriously think Bertie gets annoyed when, alongside Blair, he’s referred to as the ‘two Prime Ministers’? I strongly doubt it.
Truth & Justice,
Your claim “I a girl” maybe explains the e-mail address then. If you haven’t picked your GCSEs yet, History and Politics would be handy choices.
we won the battle of Stormont
Paisley could have had powersharing with nice, moderate, harmless Gerry Fitt all those years ago.And this at a time when unionists had a roughly 3:1 parliamentary sway over nationalists and at a time of pretty inconsequential north/southery.Now they are stuck with the former head of the Derry PIRA, with nationalist and unionists on rough representative level pegging, and a substantive North/South dimension.And you call that a victory?
In the (let’s face it highly probable ) eventuality of Paisley being physically indisposed, McGuinness become *acting* first minister.It amazes me that so few people realise this.
darth rumsfield
Yes im young, but its better than being a darlek however when you consider Sinn Fein have just signed up to a British Assembly. Unionists have a total veto over government departments and ministers and North South Bodies, pledge their allegence to a British police force then i think it is a good time for Unionists unfortunetly there are those who have no vision for the future and their hatred clouds their judgement and the facts!
Glensman
I’m surprised no one picked you up on your earlier post in which you stated that there was no Republic of Ireland
From wiki:
The Republic of Ireland Act was an enactment of Oireachtas Éireann passed in 1948, which came into force on April 18, 1949[1] and which declared that the official description of Ireland was to be the Republic of Ireland. It officially made Ireland a republic and marked its exit from the Commonwealth.
This story shows how far we’ve come. The posts on this thread show that we still have a long way to go.
Fuck the begrudgers
Which would appear to be most people writing here…..
Yes im young, but its better than being a darlek however when you consider Sinn Fein have just signed up to a British Assembly. Unionists have a total veto over government departments and ministers and North South Bodies, pledge their allegence to a British police force then i think it is a good time for Unionists unfortunetly there are those who have no vision for the future and their hatred clouds their judgement and the facts!
Posted by Truth & Justice on May 13 2007 @ 12:21PM
Oh dear, oh dear!
T&J while I’m not trying to worry you and ruin what to me is still a joint victory for both unionists and nationalists (i.e. a victory for the people) I really don’t feel your reasons for this unionist victory of the ‘battle for Stormont’ (??!!) amount to much.
I mean lets look at them shall we?
Firstly the most hyped and yet really practically meaningless republican concession in years. Support for the police. I would say that the DUP handed the shinners a massive favour with this. Support for the PSNI and Guards was something I’d say Gerry and co had been itching to get at for a while. They just needed a reason to give to their supporters. A quick pay back, like, say, oh, devolved government. This apparently massive concession is allowing them to grow in support in not only the north but also the south where many simply just couldn’t see the reasoning for not supporting the police. They have no memory of RUC brutality, all they see are the shiney new PSNI with the sort of accountability many would love to see the Gurads have. You think SF would be heading for double figures in this new Dail without first supporting the police? And pre-StAA SF could never hope for even an informal coalition with any of the southern parties.
Add to this all the newfound power (God don’t they just love that) to be had on the policing board and the hope of a nationalist P&J minister at Stormont. Lets not forget the long term effects of what will hopefully become a 50/50 apolitical force controlled from Belfast. It makes that transition to UI all the more easy dosent it? We wouldn’t worry about the likes of the fire brigade or ambulance drivers striking in protest of a referendum would we? They just do their job and don’t get involved in constitutional politics. And yet with the current PSNI I think many small ‘n’ nationalists would just be a little bit scared to vote for unity for the response from what is still quite a unionist dominated police force. But sure give it 10 years under the new arrangement and we’ll see..
Now of course I can see why the DUP demanded this concession; in an attepmt to embarress SF, bolster their image as the ‘tough’ Unionist party and of course because of genuine and indeed somewhat justified unionst fear and anger of SF not supporting the law. However if they meant it as some kind of block to unity they were dead wrong. Practically it means nothing and ideaologically it means very little. The real concession on ideaology from SF was accepting the principle of consent but of course that was won under the UUP’s watch so they DUP can hardly throw that up as a unionist victory (when of course it actually was the greatest one since 1922). The SNP are firmly behind Britsih law and order, will it stop them from winning independance for Scotland? Not a jolt. Because it means nothing. The only support SF lost in the whole thing was from old style Republicans to whom its just too much. Fair enough. I respect that. But SF have already replaced them in votes and they’ll still be there to vote for independence in a referendum, so republicanism has lost nothing there. Of course the phrase ‘pledge alligance to a British force’ is a bit sickening for us but well, its the 21st centuary and we gotta be flexible and practical in our struggle.
Cont…
Now while what you see as SF ‘signing up to a British Assembly’ I would argue that SF have delivered local government for Northern Ireland from Ireland. No more ineffective and unaccountable birect rule ministers. Now we have ineffective but at least accoutable local ministers! A SoS forced on us without our say or input from West Minster has been replaced by men and women that we voted for. The faceless direct rule ministers have been replaced with a man from Ballymena and another from Derry. Its not the end game by a long shot but its a step in the right direction. We can now concentrate on rubbing out the border bit by bit and integrating north and south as one again. It’ll take a while and won’t be simple but, I believe anyway, the economic, political and indeed social arguements are definately in our corner.
And finally that unionist veto. Its definately there, you’re right in that aspect. But then sure, isn’t the nationalist one just as potent? It takes two to tango in this assembly. Hmm if I may be slightly sharp for a moment I’d have to say that this is one aspect where the old unionist feeling of superiority still pokes through. The idea that unionism has this great and powerful veto you can use to scare us into submission at Stormont. Then there’s the notion that Paisley is the PM of NI with McGuinness as his little fenian helper. I worry if some didn’t quite catch how this new agreement will work. Equality in all sense of the word beins at the the top with the two first ministers and works its was down. But don’t worry if you feel alone in mot getting it, just wait till we see a SF first minister. God help us the slabbering we’ll all hear then from republicans.