Another informer (re)revealed?
Greg Harkin is doing the spade-work on unearthing the dirty secrets of the world of IRA informers, as seen in his weekly series currently running in the Sunday Life. This week, he looks at the Sandy Lynch case, which sentenced Danny Morrison to jail for eight years. He reveals the farce of two informers interrogating a third informer. What makes this week’s article different from previous allegations (see below) is this: “Three separate, reliable sources – none of them known to each other – have now confirmed that his other interrogator was also working for Special Branch.” Previously, it had only been Kevin Fulton publicly making the claim. Now Harkin has three other reliable sources confirming the allegation.
This is bittersweet but good news for Morrison, who is in position to have his conviction overturned.
Once there, there are two options for the Crown – a re-trial, which would expose the role of agents in the case, giving official and public confirmation to the roles of Scappaticci and the second IRA man as informers and chief prosecution witness Lynch as a double murderer. Or the Crown agrees to drop all charges and Morrison’s conviction is quashed. Few would be surprised if the second option is preferred.
Bad news continues all around for those who ran dodgy informers as it is also revealed that Lynch was a double murderer.
When questioned about his role in the double-murder, Lynch admitted his involvement. Special Branch detectives reported this admission but were ordered by senior officers to keep using Lynch as an agent. Police Ombudsman Nuala O’Loan did investigate the Morrison case, but the investigation was cut short when it was taken over by the Stevens Inquiry because of Scappaticci’s involvement in the case.
The bloody history of Scappaticci is now well known. The messy question of where the moral lines get drawn is still up in the air.
Background: Cryptome (also carries denials)
West Belfast bricklayer Freddy Scappaticci, said to have been second-in-command of the IRA’s feared nutting squad, has denied the allegations that he was a paid informer. Senior republicans now accept he was.
It was Scappaticci who helped set up the arrest of former Sinn Fein publicity director Danny Morrison in January 1990 at a house in west Belfast where informer Sandy Lynch was being held.
Maguidhir had been at the same house that weekend and, like Scappaticci, had escaped the subsequent police operation. He went on the run after being named by Lynch as the IRA’s No2 in Ardoyne. He had been best man at Lynch’s wedding as well as a friend and IRA colleague of Fulton’s.He returned to Belfast following the ceasefires and trained as a journalist.
Background: Agent names second IRA chief as key British mole
More recently, Maguire was involved with Scappaticci in the abduction in 1990 of Sandy Lynch, a police agent. Police and troops swooped on the house where Lynch was being held, arresting those who were holding him. Both Maguire and Scappaticci had left before Lynch’s rescuers arrived.
Neither Maguire nor Scappaticci was aware that the other was being run as an informer by the army’s secretive Force Research Unit.
Background: Another army spy in IRA, claims ex-agent (Rosie Cowan, The Guardian)
Background: Man ‘shocked’ at agent claims (BBC)
Maguire has been an editor of the North Belfast News and a director of the Andersonstown News Group. This is what the management of the Andersonstown News Group had to say when the claims first surfaced:
In a joint statement Máirtín Ó Muilleoir, Managing Editor and Robin Livingstone, Group Editor Andersonstown News Group, condemned the report as scurrilous and irresponsible gutter journalism.
“It comes as no surprise to the Andersonstown News Group that the increasingly vitriolic campaign of vilification against our newspapers by certain media outlets has culminated in this outrageous and baseless allegation against a valued and trusted senior member of staff. The journalists who publish this type of scurillous allegation based on one discredited source and without producing a scintilla of evidence are a disgrace to their profession. It is an attack on our integrity and independence and we will defend ourselves vigorously. The Andersonstown News Group will be throwing all its resources behind Sean Mag Uidhir in whatever steps he deems necessary to vindicate his reputation.”
Sean Maguire also recently signed the nomination papers for Gerry Kelly in the past election, and spoke alongside Kelly and Bik McFarlane at a tribute to Larry Marley last month.
Martin Ingram makes a good point about the “public interest certificatesâ€. Brigadier Frank Kitson who wrote on British counterinsurgency policies in various colonies said that the law should become “a propaganda tool for disposing of unwanted members of the publicâ€. This is what the system of law enforcement is in Northern Ireland. At the end of the day the only person telling the truth in this affair is Danny Morrison. I hope he sues the state and makes millions.
It also shows that that the prosecution service is an integral part of the state’s control apparatus. We need a system to hold these people to account and the US system of electing local district attorneys is my preferred solution.
Susan (Green Flag Woman)
Rory (South Derry), supposing just for one moment what you said is true, wouldn’t it bother you to think that those you label as “touts†would have been deliberately protected and built up by the Brits with the pre-determined objective of tearing them down again (by exposing them as “touts”) if they ever got close to exercising genuine political power?
Posted by susan says let greenflag be greenflag on Apr 22, 2007 @ 11:08 PM
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Listen Darlin the Brits filled the Provos with Touts from top to bottom and the graveyards filled up with Republican Youth!
The Man Mr Murray from the Springfeild Rd, interogated every silly little boy who stepped out of line in the mid-late Ninties when the real culprits sat around him.
My Question is did the Northern Commander Know as he seemingly new everything?
Now before all the Provo’s jump into the ring – Stop and think – Who sold out who?
Martin Ingram –
For the public record, when I was working for the Irish Post in 2004 I asked you whether Sean Maguire was an agent. I fielded the question through your publisher’s press officer.
You said he wasn’t. Why do you now suggest otherwise?
Mick Hall (Former Daily Ireland journalist)
Hi Mick,
For the record you asked me THREE YEARS ago did I know if Sean Maguire was working for the security forces.
I replied to you that I did not Know! I told you and this remains the case today that I was 100 % certain he was not a FRU source.
I also fielded a similar question from the blanket and gave a similar response.
Subsequent to that conversation with you three years ago I have seen certain information and met with various people who have convinced me that he was indeed an Agent . The biggest factor was the Ombudsman discovering the PIC that were issued during the Lynch case for BOTH Scap and Maguire. That information was not available back in 2004. I was aware of the Scap PIC but not the Maguire certificate.
Some of that new material was published in the book and some it was not available untill after the Ombudsmans investigation was carried out as a result of the complaint made by Danny Morrison convicted IRA man after his legal team met with me and Greg at Cork airport.
Mick, Our conversation was 3 years ago and subsequent to that conversation new material was uncovered. Thanks for asking though.
As Greg Harkin makes clear in his Sunday life piece, the Ombudsman found the evidence of the PIC and that other evidence was withheld from the trial judge.Greg makes clear in his piece that his piece is based upon THREE seperate SOURCES, I can confirm that none of those sources are me.
I will remind you that it was you who made contact with me during 2004 and specifically raised this issue with me about Seanie Maguire being a TOUT.It was you who made the point that it was suspicious how a person Like Seanie could get away with shagging every other prisoners wife and that you would not be surprised if it turned out to be true.You said it was normal to be Knee capped for those offences.
The Sunday Life piece By Greg had no input what so ever from me and I had no influence over the Ombudsmans inquiry that found the evidence of the issuing of the PIC.
Do you have a comment to make about why your friend and fellow employer Sean Maguire was protected by the state along with Freddy Scappaticci by the issuing of the Public immunity certificates? if so I will be happy to debate the issue further
Best Regards.
Ding Ding
Martin
We are all touts now. Some of us just get paid. n every war, there are winners and losers. Get over it.
The silence from Sean is deafening, he isn’t so quick to rubbish the story now.
2/1 alpha wait out.
Ingram. I thought your allegation was based on first hand information. Now I am coming to the opinion that you are a conduit for rumors and allegations designed to sow suspicion among republicans. Those using you are hoping your background will convince journalists that these stories are real. Your MMcG allegation seems to me to be a disinformation attempt by some faceless people. I had though the Maguire allegation had some substance but now I doubt that. You are hanging your allegation on the fact that there were two public interest certificates. This could have been deliberately designed to hide the real one.
By the way I agree with you that these devices make the prosecution service complicit in crimes up to and including murder.
“You are hanging your allegation on the fact that there were two public interest certificates. This could have been deliberately designed to hide the real one.”
That’s a good point. If the powers-that-be had allowed one name to be released but not the other, it doesn’t take much nous to work out which one’s the agent – the one that wasn’t named. By getting a PIIC for both, it leaves a bit of ambiguity.
Ingram’s jumping to the conclusion that it must mean both are agents. But the fact that he can’t even get the terminology right undermines his credibility – it’s PIIC not PIC (Public Interest Immunity Certificate).
Similarly, if Scap had been the only one who left the scene and avoided arrest, that would have looked suspicious. The fact that both he and Maguire got away could have been at Scap’s suggestion to cause obfuscation.
Ian: “That’s a good point. If the powers-that-be had allowed one name to be released but not the other, it doesn’t take much nous to work out which one’s the agent – the one that wasn’t named. By getting a PIIC for both, it leaves a bit of ambiguity. ”
Comme ci, comme ca. There are two places that make excellent places to hide a secret. One is in plain sight. The second is inside another secret.
Ian: “Ingram’s jumping to the conclusion that it must mean both are agents. But the fact that he can’t even get the terminology right undermines his credibility – it’s PIIC not PIC (Public Interest Immunity Certificate). ”
Maybe, but maybe not… the man was a sergeant, not a bureaucrat or lawyer. Tongues (and fingers) are lazy — “pee-aye-cee” sings, conversationally, whilst “pee-aye-aye-cee” or “pee-double aye-cee” is a bit more awkward.
Enlisted men don’t talk like bureaucrats, especially if they have a job that requires them to get their hands dirty.
Ian: “Similarly, if Scap had been the only one who left the scene and avoided arrest, that would have looked suspicious. The fact that both he and Maguire got away could have been at Scap’s suggestion to cause obfuscation. ”
Mayhap, but it doesn’t explain other things, such as Sean’s alleged flouting of the IRA’s “cultural norms,” if you will, seemingly with impunity. Now, it could be that no one had the heart to do for Sean what he was doing to others… or it could be something else.
’Martin Ingram’
In your response to my question you have included a number of factual inaccuracies – I can only conclude in an attempt to personalise the debate and deliberately disinform.
First, while writing a review and feature on the book ‘stakeknife’ for the Irish Post in London I approached yourself and Greg Harkin for comment. I was told by your publisher’s office that I should email questions to them so they could be passed on to you. Apparently you did not have access to email.
My final question asked specifically whether reports in a Sunday Times piece about Sean Maguire were true, i.e whether he had worked as a security force agent.
In a written reply passed on by the publisher’s press officer you simply said Sean Maguire had not worked as an agent. YOU DID NOT say you did not know.
More sinisterly you claimed I made remarks about Maguire’s sex life and expressed a personal opinion that he was an informer.
You stated: “It was you who made the point that it was suspicious how a person Like Seanie could get away with shagging every other prisoners wife and that you would not be surprised if it turned out to be true.You said it was normal to be Knee capped for those offences.â€
I assume you mean’t I expressed these opinions as a (somewhat bizzare) preface to the question passed on to your publisher’s press officer? Can you prove I made these remarks? I can categorically state that I NEVER DID.
Your dishonest and personalised reply to my enquiry has cleared up one thing in my mind. You are a liar, plain and simple.
Any credibility you once enjoyed has been disappearing with every opportunistic comment you post on these sites.
If the truth does prevail it won’t be because of a British army guttersnake like web-cipher ‘Martin Ingram’. Like you said Jack, Greg referred to three sources to stand up his story – you weren’t one of them. I’m sure Greg was well aware that had your finger prints been spotted on his Sunday Life page the veracity of its content would have been open to serious scrutiny.
We all read with interest what journalists like Greg Harkin have to report. Most now treat your self-serving comments with the contempt they serve.
The moral, political and factual inconsistencies of your dubious position have become so apparent that it is difficult to justify spending time giving you a considered reply. I will not waste my time responding to anything further you have to say.
The other Mick Hall
Mick, are things getting too hot for you ? you just kicked it off, now finish it.
EVERYONE…
To conclude….
Everyone hates Ingram aka Jack
Magic Mushroom Macswiney thinks there weren’t any informers; Rebel Rory thinks they were all over the place.
Walter “Frank D” Mitty is spouting the sort of nonsense that made him a laughing stock in the 80s.
Barry “registered informer” P is also still mixing it although he gets paid for it.
Mick Red Under the Bed Hall didn’t say Sean “Throw Sandy on the Bed” Maguire was a love-cheating FRU agent who got away with jumping prisoners’ wives (and then some) but did say Ingram aka Adam has (belatedly) lost the plot.
Ian (probably Marty Millar) takes the theory a little too far in order to create obfuscation!
Dread – despite the name – is dead on the money, rather than dread on….
And Heck is good craic – Watcher’s just a mixer.
To really conclude….
Sean Maguire was a Special Branch agent
Scap was a FRU agent.
Together with Alexander Lynch (the real one, not the one posting here) they helped put Danny Morrison away.
Sean keeps his head down and hopes it all goes away. Another grubby secret from the dirty war has been exposed and the victims get feck all as usual…
Mick,
As you know but do not make clear in your above piece we have enjoyed many telephone conversations about this and other aspects of Republican collusion with the Brits over the years.I did indeed provide you with a number of written answers posed to a broad subject and I have not sought to deny that. You are clearly embarrassed by me revealing that it was you who raised this subject about Maguire being a tout with me. That is a shame, but cast your mind back to your book review about Stakeknife and Freddy Scap. You ridiculed the story when that Book was published yet in conversations with me you made it clear that you did believe that Freddy was a tout but that your readers dont like to read about it and that you had to toe the party line. I understood that point , just like I understand your defence today of your friend and former employer Seanie Maguire . Your reluctance to debate the core issues surrounding this case are a clear example of your reluctance to address the substance of the issue and feel comfortable in mounting a diversionary attack upon me. May I remind you I was not a source to the Sunday Life piece.
The main thrust of those answers both in writting and on the phone were as I made clear yesterday and you appear not to contradict.
1. I did not know that Sean Maguire was a tout over three years ago and that I was CERTAIN that he was not a FRU source .
The piece by Greg last weekend actually reinforces that position of mine. The latest exposure of information comes from other agencies and Officers not connected to the FRU and should confirm to the reader that he ( Maguire) was not an Army source.
Today we have seen many developments in this case, primarily the complaint made by Danny Morrison which resulted in the Ombudsmans investigation. That investigation revealed a number of certificates were issued by the state to keep the roles of two Agents from the Trial Judge. Back in 2004 my crystal ball was not clear and nobody could have predicted that save one or two inside the Branch and of course the prosecutors office.
I note that you along with one or two others on this board completely avoid the main plank of Greg Harkins piece published in the Sunday Life even after a specific invite to debate the issue.
1. Why DO YOU think the state issued the certificates to the court .
2. When this story first broke Sean Maguire and the Andytout News promised to take up the legal fight and to mount a strong defence. Maguire failed to carry out that public promise. Why do you think he backed down Mick?
3. Maguire could ask either Danny Morrison or the Ombudsman to publish what they know of the case so far and to ask that they make it clear that he does not feature within their investigations.? Do YOU think he will??
Come on Mick,
Lets get back on topic and discuss the real core issues to this excellent story by Greg Harkin former journalist of the year.
Mick
I’m afraid Ingram is right on one point at least. Maguire and Marty Millar and Robin Livingstone issued statements three years ago saying they were going to sue a newspaper which said Maguire was an informer (I think it was either the Mirror or the Sunday People).
From memory the Irish News even carried this legal threat on its front page – but nothing ever happened.
At the end of the day there will be those who believe Maguire and those who believe Sunday Life. People will take their pick.
But there is another angle that no-one picked up from Sunday’s articles.
Lynch shot dead two people (in INLA feud). This was known to the RUC yet he was allowed to continue to work as an agent. I’ve heard the family of one of those men is now planning a visit to the Ombudsman….Nuala will be glad of the retirement.
Love and peace…
Ehh, Ingram…
I’ve just looked up the Irish Post’s archive:
http://www.irishabroad.com/news/irishpost/ents/theenemies.asp
It contain’s the reporter Mick Hall’s original 2004 review and feature on Stakeknife book. It contains comments by Harkin and a positive appraisal of the book.
Nowhere does it rubbish the Scap claims. You obviously never read the pieces, so you are invariably talking bollocks when you say he publicly rubbished the Scap story but privately voiced his real suspicions to you.
I find it hard to believe someone like Mick would have phone conversations with you on these matters.
Obviously Jack you’re trying to stir the pot here on the Maguire story. Nice try, but you’ve been caught out. Again.
Markus
Forget Ingram and his views which most people on here seem to disagree with anyway.
There is no pot to stir. It appears many republicans now believe what some of them suspected – that Maguire was an agent/informer/tout – call him what you like.
This has serious repercussions because one victim of his work was Danny Morrison (no less). But what about all the others who either lost their lives or ended up doing porridge at the Maze stadium. You can bet your last penny that this is being investigated right now….
Markus/EyeSpy,
The internet is a wonderful thing – while Markus’s link is to a bland journalistic piece, try this link for a more robust article by Mick Hall:
name
Here is a quote, from the article:
“‘Martin Ingram’ is described in the book publisher’s blurb, as a whistleblower. Maybe, but for all the accusations he makes in the book about informers, the British Army, the RUC Special Branch and the British security services that where running in the north of Ireland during the post 1969 troubles, those he makes concerning the man who has been publicly named by him as Stakeknife, Freddie Scappaticci, can at best, if we are to believe ‘Ingram’, be described as tittle tattle, more often than not seemingly gained second if not third hand. On what evidence does he name Scappaticci as the informer Stakeknife?”
and another:
“As to Freddie Scappaticci being Stakeknife the evidence is circumstantial, but in the north of Ireland circumstantial evidence has never stopped people being sentenced to life imprisonment nor having the back of their heads blasted off. What is clear the day Scappaticci decided to speak to the team from the TV programme the Cook Report and badmouth Martin McGuiness (transcript of the conversation pp69), whether he was an informer of the FRU at that time or not his goose was truly cooked.”
There is no pot to stir. It appears many republicans now believe what some of them suspected – that Maguire was an agent/informer/tout – call him what you like.
eyespy
I know not whether there is a pot to stir nor whether Sean Mag Uidhir worked for an agency of the British security forces. However, unfortunately Sean does have questions to answer as he undoubtedly said he would be taking legal advice etc when these allegations last arose. It could be that his legal advisors told him to drop the matter, what ever their advice he should put it into the public arena not least because he is not a private citizen but a public figure, due to both his work as an editor and a political activist.
As to the sources for these claims, myself on a matter such as this, I do not regard a former or current member of the security forces as being an impartial source. Although having said this Greg Harkin has a good record as a diligent checker of facts and he claimed he had three sources and I see no reason to doubt him on this, although all three could be telling lies, after all that is part of the deadly and destructive game of criminal collusion.
The alternative is that they are telling the truth, which would be yet another reason to bring the dirty war out from the shadows
into the light of a Truth and Reconciliation Commission, after all this was not a victimless war, now was it?
MickHall/DK/Ingram et al…
Mick has hit the nail on the head….Truth Commission Time.
As for his book review, he was not the only sceptic about Scap at the time. Morrison himself publicly at least would not condemn his former comrade. It was only last year in an article that Morrison accepted publicly that Scap was a tout who may have killed innocent volunteers (innocent of touting that is).
And ask yourselves this question: Do you believe Morrison would have lodged his case with the Criminal Cases Review Commission (as reported in Sunday Life) if he did not believe that agents were involved in setting him up.
Mick – Sean took no action because he had no action to take: simple. He and his Mercedes-driving pals in Andytown went bonkers over the first revelations, filled acres of newsprint about how they were going to sue rings around them and then, suddenly, not a single word. Not a writ, not a column in one of their fine organs, not even a sentence.
It is my belief that this is because the Ra knows full well about Maguire. He will be found out. They always are. And ceasefire or not…just look at Denis
DK
As confusing as this must be for readers, I [mickhall] wrote the Blanket piece you posted, not the Mick Hall you were referring to. Clearly the two of us should get together to see if we can work some thing out over this byline.
I have made my own position on outing informers on a number of occasions clear, before I publicly accept than an individual is an informer and state they are in print I need hard evidence.
Having said that I realize revealing people as informers is a complex business and one of the tactics people use is to drip drip info in the hope that the person accused of being an informer will cut and run etc.
What ever anyone may think about ‘ingram’ he did play a part in outing scap, who was a pretty unsavory figure, but eyespy is correct in that this type of thread should not be diverted around ‘ingram’..
“Ian takes the theory a little too far in order to create obfuscation!”
I wasn’t not stating an opinion one way or another on who is or isn’t an informer. I was just outlining one possible scenario. i.e IF only one of the two people carrying out the interrogation was an informer, then applying a PIIC to only one of them would effectively have revealed that fact to the Republican movement, rendering the PIIC pointless. So logically, PIIC’s would have been issued in respect of both of them whether one or two of them were actually touts.
IF this scenario is correct, it could also answer another question that has been raised:
“Sean took no action because he had no action to take: simple.”
For Maguire to publically put forward the scenario I suggested would be a de facto admission that he was present at the scene of a crime, effectively incriminating himself, unless a Truth Commission is set up to allow such issues to be publically aired without fear of prosecution.
Sorry about the double negative there “wasn’t not”.
Anyway, so the fact that Maguire is still signing nomination papers for Kelly etc may suggest he has explained himself more fully in private, to the satisfaction of the Republican movement, than he is able to do in public without leaving himself open to the actions of the Historic Enquiries Team. Which I suppose ties in with the discussions on another thread on that topic. i.e. to what extent should former PIRA members be telling what they know to the HET?
This issue is likely to remain messy until a Truth & Reconciliation Commission is set up to allow a de facto amnesty for such information to be publically aired. I would have thought it’s the British Government rather than the Provos who are most opposed to such a set-up, as they’re the ones who make the bigger claim to the moral high ground.
Ian
Points taken. I wasn’t having a go…just having a laugh.
However I do not accept your theory was possible. The PIICs and the issuing of them were only uncovered by the Ombudsman 14 years later (and that information leaked from the Ombudsman’s office to Harkin see: Stakeknife Morrison chapter).
The idea that anyone knew they had been secretly issued other than those involved does not stand up to scrutiny.
As for Maguire and the acceptance by Gerry Kelly, Carol Cullen et al that he is a sound and trusted man, this is clear.
However – and it is a very very BIG HOWEVER – there are others in north Belfast in particular who are of a different view.
I also agree with you that Sean can’t mention his role in Morrison’s arrest for fear of prosecution – that’s why we need a Truth Commission.
And you are right – the British would have more to fear of one than anyone else.
the irish post article
[i]The MoD has currently imposed an injunction on Greg’s collaborator Martin Ingram, accusing him of breaching the Official Secrets Act. This means that for legal reasons in England and Wales, reporting specific details from their book is precarious. The injunction, interestingly, does not apply to Northern Ireland, and Greg is contemptuous of this fact.
He says: “It’s clear that they don’t care what people think — as long as no one is being offended in the Home Counties.â€
So what motivated the two men to write the book? Harkin’s personal and professional reasons are easy to understand, but what has Ingram to gain? Why would he turn his back on his former comrades to expose dubious activities and misinformation to which he was once institutionally linked?
“I was suspicious about his motives myself,†says Harkin. “But I came to trust him. He contacted me initially after reading my article on the Steven’s Inquiry to point out inaccuracies.
“Shortly afterwards, we met up and subsequently collaborated on some articles. When the injunctions came, I was convinced Ingram was telling the truth.[/i]
was that not the purpose of the injunctions? lend credibility to ingram and allow revelations where damage can be inflicted.
nice touches in that article, the irish wife, living in the south. add to that his love of dear old ireland and the wearing of the green.
As usual, I cannot understand how this thread about Greg Harkin’s discovery started out, and how it has continued.
As I understand it, Danny Morrison, one-time Sinn Fein director, is going to have his conviction of being the sixth member of the PIRA Council, and its representative at the interrogation of Sandy Lynch – to make sure that another Joe Fenton fiasco didn’t occur, killing the suspect below a full, fair inquiry was conducted – overturned because he was never in the Council, and did not go to Lynch’s interrogation in this capacity but under a hoax, apparently to protect someone else really on the Council who was apparently behind Fenton’s execution, and other false counterespionage inquiries.
British security officials apparently decided to suit up Morrison in this fashion – what would protect the real tout on the Council while seeing this fallguy off in the process.
The question then has nothing to do with either Freddie Scappaticci or Sean Maguire since we know that whoever’s agent they might have been, neither of them was ever on the PIRA Council.
So who is the person no one is willing to talk about?
And, of course, if my analysis is wrong, please correct it.
one part of this people seem to avoid
It is clear (at least to me) that Danny Morrison’s version of events is the most credible-that he went with the intention of setting up a press conference to expose a tout.
instead the police/security services/army/prosecution service/ judicary conspired to frame him for someting that he did’nt do. (and I hope he makes lots of money out of it!)
what does this say about the whole british “justice” system? If they can do this to a figure as prominent as Danny Morrison they can do it to anyone, including you and me.
This is about the power of the state and the rule of law, and in any free society the state has to learn that it only has powers given KNOWINGLY to it by the people. I agree with Mickhall that we need a truth commission but it should be focused at the state and its activities. We know what loyalists and republicans did. Over 10000 people pasted through Nor Iron’s prison system and their activities were exposed. The state’s never where. This is what the british and David Trimble fear.
You are so right, heck, but the British will never permit a Truth and Reconciliation Commission (TRC) – what I recommended to SoS Paul Murphy after providing a series of articles about why it was needed, and whose receipt was acknowledged by the NIO – because it would show them to be worse than the Argies, even in the ‘Steak knife’ affair.
After he tried to lead both sides to agree to a negotiated settlement of The Troubles – what ultimately led to the British setting him up as the fallguy for the cull on The Rock because of blowback from Captain Simon Hayward, Ops Officer of the 14 Intelligence Company’s South Detachment (June 1985-March 1987) – inducing him to conclude that the security forces were worse than the least focused republican killers like Gerard Steenson, ‘Steak knife’ mounted a counterattack which forced Downing Street to the negotiating table.
In sum, ‘Steak knife’ now has nothing to fear from a TRC.
Hey Ingrim
If you know that much about Maguire what was his role in GHQ staff – its a pretty big department with many functions you know? ‘Roving role’? Is that just another phrase for saying “I know little about Maguire only what I’ve been told by my contemptible, low-level informan… I mean, good Republican friends in Belfast.
You’re a bit of a joke ding, ding man. Why don’t you spend more time at Bebo. Isn’t that more your level? You can tell the kiddy’s what an important FRU agent handler you were, instead of conceited, bitter little man you are, full of lies, half-truths and hate.
We all know Sean compromised himself, but your input into these discussions is a constant distraction. Intentional?
Trow – keep taking the pills.
Heck – you are absolutely right in everything you said in your last post. Most people will believe Morrison and will understand why he is taking the case. To summarise:
1. Scap/Maguire/Lynch with their FRU/RUC handlers set him up – it’s called entrapment. Anto Murray, who accompanied Morrison, also has a case.
2. Lynch lied to the court when he said he’d never been involved in murder/attempted murder. Sunday Life article shows he actually killed two people whilst working as a Branch agent. This is a very very significant development.
Mute Point – I also agree with you. Ingram’s involvement in this debate only serves to give Maguire cover. Those who don’t believe he was a well-paid tout will use Ingram’s posts as ‘proof’ of their argument.
Trow – I have just one more thing to say to you – Purdysburn
Exactly what I would expect from you, EyeSpy.
Instead of having anything to say about what I have posted on this thread and others, you continue to attack me most illogically in a personal way – suggesting that I keep talking pills, apparently an allusion to drugs, and that I, living in Stockholm, go to a hospital in Belfast.
Perhaps, you should stop talking yours, and start doing some basic reading about the world.
Trow,
Nothing you say makes sense; it is balderdash.
To summarise – not the full shilling; six cans short of a six-pack; ten slices short of a loaf etc etc.
And, EyeSpy, your continuous personal attacks on me instead of what I contend about British covert operations during The Troubles, and your complaints about ‘Martin Ingram’ only provide him and his ilk cover by claiming that it was all done by Sandy Lynch, Freddie, and Sean Maguire.
You wouldn’t happen to be another Intelligence Insider, would you?
Hi Trow
Any more illusions over the weekend. MI5 kill John Paul 1? Tell us – what mad conspiracy theory have you come up with this time? Bertie Ahern’s a woman…Adams is really Mary Lou in disguise…Go on, entertain us.
Just noticed your silly personal attack, Eye Spy.
Over the weekend and today, I have been checking on the massive cockups MI5 was responsible for during Operation Crevice – what resulted in the Madrid and London bombings which killed nearly 300 people.
For more on what now Director Jonathn ‘Bob’ Evans aka William Perkins has to answer for, see my post on the thread about the director with the ‘impeccable credentials’.
When I heard commentators on last nights’ news (regarding the connection between the bomb plotters convicted yesterday and the 7th July bombers) saying stuff like “Yes the 7th July bombers slipped through the net but we shouldn’t be too hard on the security services, they did stop the Operation Crevice plot”, I was reminded of Steve Coogan’s swimming pool attendant character in The Day Today:
“In 1976, no-one died;
In 1977, no-one died;
In 1978, no-one died;
In 1979, no-one died;
In 1980, no-one died;
In 1981, no-one died;
In 1982, no-one died;
In 1983, someone died;
In 1984, no-one died;
In 1985, no-one died…..”
Trow – chill – it’s called a joke.
Ian –
Taking bets that someone on the 7/7 plot (not one of the bombers obviously) was working for Box 500 and/or Special Branch.
After all they let Sean Maguire do all sorts in IRA GHQ (including murder) and he’s still working for them, though now it’s acceptable apparently
Apparently the ‘man not ball’ rule is so relaxed on this thread – or in relation to this particular person – that people are allowed come on and accuse people, without any evidence whatsoever, of serious crimes not to mention other activities.
This is, perhaps, where Mick could come and visit to hand out his famous red cards rather than waste time in other places where the abuse of commenting policy seems less certain.
Oilibhear I totally agree. You have been targeted with a yellow, for much less than this stuff here, totally unfair. These type of threads are here only to provide a platform to play the man rather than the ball. This thread is totally useless, and is nothing more than mud slinging at a particular person. Annonymous posters attacking an individual, whose good name has now been dragged thru the mud. It is a place for people with nothing to say on any other subject other than these ‘spy’ agenda and is quite frankly boring and irrelevant.
I really wish mick would put an end to them.
Olly, mo chara,
Couldn’t agree more. Seanie is completely clean. Never worked for anyone. Never compromised operations. Never worked for the Branch or the Ra..cos he’s a genuine and great gaelgoir just like you Mr Cromwell..
Morrison; CastleCourt; Ardoyne…..
Slan Abhaile Chromaill
Forlorn Fairy
Boring and irrelevant……spot on. Sean doesn’t have a good name.
You’re OFF!
It’s fairly clear what the agenda of this thread is and it’s fairly clear also that sluggerotoole is facilitating the incessant attempts of character assassination of Seán Maguidhir. Fair enough if there’s evidence to back it up – even though a court room would be a better forum and perhaps that’s where this is headed – but when there’s none, then slugger is riding for a fall.
Sorry, EyeSpy, but you must improve your so-called jokes if you expect any laughs.
John Paul I was apparently assassinated, but his murder has never been established, much less who did it. You are apparently confusing him with his successor John Paul II who ‘Gun-for-Hire’ Mehmet Agca attempted to kill for some yet unknown party.
With two unsolved assassinations, I would not rule out anyone, not even MI5, especially in the first one.
As for the 7/7 bombings, MI5 ruined its connection with the bombers by locking up those who knew about the real terrorists from Waheed Mahamoud’s PC UK Inernet Cafe in Crawley after Operation Crevice was closed down after the Madrid mass murder – the five suspects who were convicted yesterday.
Among them, possibly Omar Khyam, was the MI5 informer, and one of their parents in Crawley complained about their being set up by someone working for the Security Service called “Gould” who was calling for them to flee to Pakistan after the tragedy in Spain on 3/11/2004.
There apparently is a MI6 officer by that name who was stationed in Pakistan then, helping out in Britain in Operation Crevice in March 2004, and is currently serving in Tehran.
With the Crawley Five locked up, the Khan group was given over a year without any serious surveillance to arrange the London bombings.
For more on this, see my article:
http://codshit.blogspot.com/archives/2004_11_28_codshit_archive.html
Talk about inter-service rivalry ruining the finished product, this takes the cake.
I don’t know whether or not Seán Maguidhir was a tout and nor do I care, Oliver. According to some of the earlier links I’ve just read, he was named in court as the IRA man who delivered Sandy Lynch into the hands of Internal Security. So where’s the legal problem? It’s a matter of record that he was in the IRA – court record and therefore privileged as a man of your experience should know. Then there’s the tout allegation. It is the duty (indeed legal duty) of every citizen to pass information about a crime to the relevelant authorities. Seán Maguidhir has probably asked you to post the last post (or maybe you are he), but it doesn’t stand up. And threatening slugger on a free speech site is the kind of thing people should expect…..
Agreed MartyM,
Olly (aka Sean)is hitting below slugger’s belt. Clever use of the fada on Sean’s name too. You are obviously a very skilled Gaelic user….. How do you do that on a PC anyone?
Ctrl Alt and letter á
Nobody has asked me to post anything here and obviously you’re as ignorant as you are biased if you think I’m Sean Maguidhir.
I made no threat regarding free speech on this site as my point was at the uneven application of the man not ball rule by Slugger.
I think that some of the accusations being bandied about here by some of the posters may actually be a greater threat to free speech as it will inevitably lead to a court room and that’s not at my behest and then you may find Slugger’s very future in peril. Some of the stuff being posted by the likes of Eye Spy et al is downright foolish and irresponsible and it should stop.
But then again that is presuming a level of maturity about some of these posters which they may not possess.