Rebranding the UDA
More reports today on the conference, noted here yesterday, to workshop how that £1.2million of public funds might be spent.. Apparently it’s to be chaired by Sir George Quigley and it seems that the invited guests will include not just the Chief Constable, but “US Consul General Dean Pittman and representatives from the main churches” among the “more than 100 stakeholders”.. [any elected representatives? - Ed] And, according to Frankie Gallagher of the UDA-aligned UPRG
He also said one of the things that had been discussed was developing new flag designs that moved away from paramilitary emblems.
“Disarmament is expected. The end of criminality too. If it is not then they UDA will be punished, but have in mind it took the IRA years to wind up their operations. Even after the GFA, even after being in Stormont.”
Two Nations, you are being disingenuous by suggesting that the clock should only start now for loyalists, when in fact they got their prisoners released under the GFA at the same time as the IRA’s were let out.
LHW, I don’t know if you missed my query on another thread. I wondered if you could shed light on what came of the purported ‘show of strength’ by the SE Antrim Brigadier last weekend? Did anyone come to his party?
“It is about time the world gave them a second of their time, when they’re not being absorbed in the propaganda of the IRA/Sinn Fein, to try and understand them for who they are. Ordinary people, like you and I, who were born and who were born into the horrific circumstances of war.”
Posted by Peace on Apr 04, 2007 @ 12:00 PM
Very well put mate. I agree with everything you say in the rest of your comment too – the DUP are not the D.A.’s Sinn Fein, the closest equivalent they have to that is the Ulster Political Research Group and they are not a political party but provide political analysis to the Association and act as a pressure group, putting their points of view across to other politicians and NIO representatives as to the way forward for run-down sub-standard, under-funded loyalist communities in Ulster…
Ian,
The planned ‘show of strength’ was cancelled due to lack of support.
CL: “the DUP are not the D.A.’s Sinn Fein, the closest equivalent they have to that is the Ulster Political Research Group and they are not a political party but provide political analysis to the Association and act as a pressure group”
Mainly because almost no one is willing to vote for them on those occasions when they put candidates forward, CL.
Too much foot-dragging and the the various Loyalist organizations risk becoming the equivalent of the RIRA and CIRA — larger perhaps, but no more seriously taken.
Ian
I consider it more of a slow boil when compared to the process involving the IRA. It has certainly only been the last few years were there has a concerted effort to bring the Loyalists in from the cold. So that is why the clock has only really started now. All eyes had been on the IRA.
All the prisoners got out IIRC. Even INLA etc. With the ceasefires intact (for the most part) it was a prize for both sides.
I do not believe the two groupings can be compared. Firstly, the IRA had a larger political mandate compared to the loyalists so were entitled to more concessions. Bear in mind though that during GFA and the first Assembly the IRA were up to their necks in criminality and still had their guns. Of course, this could not continue indefinitely and it did not, but the structures DID continue for a while. We have come further now because the IRA have ended criminality and given in their guns.
The Loyalists cannot continue indefinitely linked to criminality and with their guns in tact. However, the very least we can do is engage with them. Listen to them and encourage them down the right path. This £1.2m is not about giving them political power or further dominance in their areas. It is about bridge-building and confidence building within communities that are in dire need of it. To me, the benefits could be immense so it is well worth the punt.
The Irish Government recognizes this.
The British Government recognizes this.
It beggars belief that middle-class liberals on Slugger fail to.
Two Nations: “All the prisoners got out IIRC. Even INLA etc. With the ceasefires intact (for the most part) it was a prize for both sides. ”
One the Loyalists had done little to nothing to earn — they can’t even keep on a cease-fire, being too busy with internal feuds and battles over drug turf.
Two Nations: “I do not believe the two groupings can be compared. Firstly, the IRA had a larger political mandate compared to the loyalists so were entitled to more concessions. ”
Ah, but equality of outcome is precisely what the Loyalists are demanding, is it not?
Two Nations: “The Loyalists cannot continue indefinitely linked to criminality and with their guns intact.”
However, it still proceeds apace with little suggestion they intend to stop anytime in the forseeable future.
Two Nations: “However, the very least we can do is engage with them. Listen to them and encourage them down the right path. This £1.2m is not about giving them political power or further dominance in their areas.”
Its about putting a veneer of civility and civilization over these thugs — ex post facto legitimacy.
Two Nations: “It is about bridge-building and confidence building within communities that are in dire need of it. To me, the benefits could be immense so it is well worth the punt. ”
That is because you admire at least the rural expression of these thugs, as evidenced by your efforts to make excuses and overlook their actions, whilst describing them in far better terms than theese thugs deserve. As I asked you before, simply because some of them cleave to the model of the 19th century Mafiosi as opposed to the 21st century gang-banger does not make them any less hoods.
Two Nations: “The Irish Government recognizes this.
The British Government recognizes this.
It beggars belief that middle-class liberals on Slugger fail to. ”
That’s because neither the Irish government or the British government work for their money, they simply “harvest” it from the tax-payors — if they need more, they simply arrange to take more.
The liberals on Slugger, unlike either of the governments or the Loyalist thugs, *DO* work for their money and dislike the notion of handing it over to this collection of thugs and spides for neglible benefit.
Dread
‘spides’ says it all.
If Jackie McDonald came from North Down, was in an Armani suit, had a better haircut and didn’t look like he smoked 40 a day who would have far less of problem with engaging with him.
You can’t engage with him because you couldn’t hold your nose long enough.
Two Nations: “If Jackie McDonald came from North Down, was in an Armani suit, had a better haircut and didn’t look like he smoked 40 a day who would have far less of problem with engaging with him. ”
Yes, I would — a hood is a hood and Jackie McDonald in an Armani suit is a waste of good fabric — no matter how much shellack you put on a turd, it’s still a turd. No matter how well you dress up a thug, he’s still a thug.
At least when Al Capone, back in the day, tried to buy the support of the poor and down-trodden, he was using “his” money to provide largesse to the masses. Jackie and the hard men apparently can’t be bothered to dip into their ill-gotten gains, preferring to use public monies to do their good works.
Two Nations: “You can’t engage with him because you couldn’t hold your nose long enough.”
At least I’m not the one who smells the shite and tries to call it perfume.
Dread
I am not calling shite perfume.
I am not making any moral judgements. You are.
If people made moral judgements about Gerry and co. then we would not be where we are now.
I have yet to see why engagement is such a big mistake.
Two Nations: “I am not calling shite perfume. ”
At best, you are trying to pretend this shite doesn’t stink, which amounts to much the same. The UDA in the rural areas may dress better, but even you admit they extort money — a thug in Armani is still a thug, as much as you try to paint them as “small town heroes” and “men of honor.”
Two Nations: “I am not making any moral judgements. You are.”
Precisely — you are ignoring the obvious stink of criminality that rises off of the UDA. You are accepting of their sociopathic behavior, going so far as to rationalize it in some of your posts.
Two Nations: “If people made moral judgements about Gerry and co. then we would not be where we are now. ”
Actually, I’ll have to disagree with this. We are where we are PRECISELY because some folks made moralistic judgements. Dr. Paisley held a hard line — a moralistic, if hypocritial, hard line — and the IRA disarmed and clamped down, constructively ending criminality, unto the point of expressing support for the police. These are things that “engagement” failed to deliver.
Is Northern Ireland better or worse off because Dr Paisley held a hard line and made a few moral judgements?
Are Loyalists are incapable or unwilling to meet the same bar?
Two Nations: ” have yet to see why engagement is such a big mistake. ”
Ah, but this isn’t engagement, this is appeasement. The UDA has given up nothing, given up nothing and not changed one whit. This is the UDA sticking out a grubby little paw and demanding danegeld whilst maintaining their armories and their criminal empires. No one can seemingly give a straight answer as to where the money is going and what it is going to do.
A funny thought occurs to me
When they rebrand the UDA i hope they get the IRON nice and hot