Jackie McDonald, the UDA, and equality..
UTV news just carried a report on a St Patrick’s breakfast held at the La Mon hotel. Whilst one of the speakers was DUP leader Ian Paisley the notable part of the report was an interview with one of the guests, UDA leader Jackie McDonald. And we got the rare sight of McDonald commenting publicly on the UDA. But the point to note was not, as the report suggests, his urging of the DUP to go into government with SF, it was his ruling out of UDA decommissioning until “they get what Sinn Féin and the IRA got”. [Are you listening Mr Hain? - Ed] No doubt that message has already been received by those in more regular contact with Mr McDonald. Seems like the Process™ still has some way to go on those poisonous foundations. Updated below Final UpdateThe quote above, while accurately capturing what Jackie McDonald said, does paraphrase what he said. I had one hearing to get the gist of it since the report was not online. Hearing it again, in the 6pm programme, I’ve had a chance to try to note the actual quote, on when the UDA would decommission.
“Whenever they’re afforded the luxuries that Sinn Féin and the IRA were afforded.. whenever they get what the IRA got.. maybe then.”
Again I’m open to correction on that quote.. the report [15th March] will be online, at some point, here
Final Update Now that the report is online I’ve been able to get the full quote – the relevant section is about halfway through the show.
“Whenever they’re afforded all the luxuries that Sinn Féin and the IRA were afforded, and they’re given some of the things that the IRA got, then perhaps it could be at the horizon but it’s not on the radar at the minute.”
What did Sinn Fein and/or the IRA get?
The term “Walter Mitty” would seem apt for Mr McDonald.
IRinA,
You know when you hear people saying things like “black people get everything” or “immigrants get everything”? Well its a bit like that.
well its going to an interesting debate when in the Assembly they get round to discussing what to do about loyalist paramilitarism. I look forward to SF giving the DUP a grilling on the way in which Unionism has manipulated the loyalists and hung them out to dry.
Unionists and the spooks from the “mainland”!
Nice one bpower!
it was his ruling out of UDA decommissioning until “they get what Sinn Féin and the IRA gotâ€.
The UDA has no mandate and no support. It has failed to build a following at the polls. There is a case for regenerating loyalist communities, sure. But why should the UDA as an organization receive anything ?
quite right comdrade stalin
Ruling out of UDA decommissioning until “they get what Sinn Féin and the IRA gotâ€.
Sounds fair enough to me, give them cross border bodies, 50/50 recruitment, parades comission, Irish govt. input into northern affairs, increased north-south cooperation, removal/reduction of british state symbol & military forces.
I say give all of the above to the UDA in spades!
CanDo, they tell us the Union is safe. Everything else is on a democratic footing. Where’s the problem?
CanDo,
There was no “giving” involved. The people of* Ireland voted them into existence on 23 May 1998.
Unionists can replace the “of” with “who happened to live on the island of”.
how long are we going to keep treating these gangsters with kid gloves? we shouldn’t be giving them money just to slacken the noose
What did Sinn Fein and/or the IRA get?
Posted by Irish Republican in America on Mar 15, 2007 @ 02:40 PM
Well for a start they got plenty of money off “wannabe Oirish” pricks like you..
When you and your so-called comrades went round collecting money for the Provies of Sinn Fein/IRA in the bars and clubs of Boston and Irish immigrant districts of New York did you stop to think the damage you were doing to my community, the Protestant/Unionist/Loyalist people? Or did you, like your Shinner mates over here, just dismiss us as “settler” scumbags who were disillusioned Irishman in an identity crisis?
I’m interested to hear your response as there have been a number of so-called “Irish American” commentators on Slugger but I’ve never come across one who was bold enough to declare themselves as a “Republican”.
I am your perceived enemy, let me hear your justification for providing funds for IRA low-lifes who murdered people I knew and attempted to murder family members…
As long as you are sure Jackie.
Keep a look out in your post for a tax demand for £20 million, that should even things up with Republicans.
The Sectarian prosecution of General Thomas Slab Murphy and family is my reference point.
“wannabe Oirish†pricks
Jaysus.
I wonder what Paisley and co. have to say about the UDA’s continued refusal to decommission. Nothing I expect.
“And we got the rare sight of McDonald commenting publicly on the UDA. But the point to note was not, as the report suggests, his urging of the DUP to go into government with SF, it was his ruling out of UDA decommissioning until “they get what Sinn Féin and the IRA gotâ€.”
What did the latest IMC report say about the dissident offshoots – the Continuity RA and the Real RA? If you were a Womble (UDA Member) would that report convince you that the UFF should be stood down, their munitions handed over and the UDA transformed into an “Old-Boys Association”?
CL,
I doubt the average UDA member read the last IMC report. Indeed, I doubt the average UDA member even knows what the IMC is.
It’s all about crime. Not “defending” Ulster.
CL,
Nobody gives a fuck what the UDA think. Whats with all this concern for criminals, do you care what the Continuity IRA and the Real IRA think?
The sooner these gangs are crushed the better.
Concerned Loyalist: “When you and your so-called comrades went round collecting money for the Provies of Sinn Fein/IRA in the bars and clubs of Boston and Irish immigrant districts of New York did you stop to think the damage you were doing to my community, the Protestant/Unionist/Loyalist people? Or did you, like your Shinner mates over here, just dismiss us as “settler†scumbags who were disillusioned Irishman in an identity crisis? ”
**plays a small violin**
Wake we when he gets to the part about walking to school eight miles through snow and ice, uphill, both ways…
Concerned Loyalist: “What did the latest IMC report say about the dissident offshoots – the Continuity RA and the Real RA? If you were a Womble (UDA Member) would that report convince you that the UFF should be stood down, their munitions handed over and the UDA transformed into an “Old-Boys Associationâ€? ”
‘course not, old bean… that might get in the way of the criminal empire… Why, without the guns, elected officials might actually run the show, rather than a shower of un-elected and un-electable thug-o-crats.
Well for a start they got plenty of money off “wannabe Oirish†pricks like you..
Maybe they could organise in that island they refer to as ‘the mainland’ and go round the pubs and clubs begging for money to fight the good fight to keep themselves British.
Or rather, British drug dealers, British extortionists, British pornographers, British pimps and, er, oh yes – British pastors.
Getting tiresome hearing this ‘we want what they got’ – and what exactly was that?
Equality? Think again, Einstein – it’s not that hard.
50/50 recruitment in a force they despise?
Er, cross-border bodies – when Jackie-O likes dining in Presidential-style down South.
WHAT exactly?
Maybe the right to wage a war by targeting haridressers, shop assistants, Chinese delivery drivers, taxi drivers, window-cleaners, teenagers in Celtic tops hiding under snooker tables… and on.
There’s much to be proud of after all…
Concerned Loyalist:
Well for a start they got plenty of money off “wannabe Oirish†pricks like you..
The guy asked a reasonable question and you responded with abuse. You had an opportunity to explain it to the guy in a civilized way, and refused to take it. This is why loyalism is in the toilet.
I am your perceived enemy, let me hear your justification for providing funds for IRA low-lifes who murdered people I knew and attempted to murder family members…
There should be something funny about a UDA supporter asks other people to explain why they killed people, but I don’t find myself laughing.
The UDA did not even put up a candidate at these elections, because if it did it would have been slaughtered. You can’t even intimidate people out to vote in your own heartlands. Loyalist paramilitarism is a criminal cancerous element and must be cut out before it spreads any further.
I did not see the UTV clip (I’ll make a point of looking out for it at 6PM) but it would be deeply unfortunate to solely concentrate on just one sentence. There is a sense of unease in the Loyalist community concerning the opportunities and incentives that were handed out to Sinn Fein/IRA during this whole peace process and, in turn, there are expectations that similar schemes could transform and regenerate areas that are sorely in need of help. Mr McDonald is merely pointing this out. He is not personally demanding anything, just highlighting the seeming imbalance. The great strides that have been made via the CTI (Conflict Transformation Initiative) deserve recognition and further support. I believe CTI will ultimately build the foundations for the total standing down of the UFF and the abandonment of the idea/notion that the battle for the future of this country can be fought militarily. As the six month CTI pilot scheme nears completion I believe that the written conclusions and analysis will highlight the overriding wish of the membership to seek a peaceful political solution to all future problems and a desire to put back into the community in a positive way.
loftholdingswood – “There is a sense of unease in the Loyalist community concerning the opportunities and incentives that were handed out to Sinn Fein/IRA during this whole peace process “.
I believe the give and take of the process is down to negotiation. We have something you want and you have something we want. Anyone would think reading your comment Lofty that this was a one way street. I think the people of NI got notable gains from the IRA, decomissioning, their standing down and now recognition of the police.
What CL and his ilk need to realise, as has been pointed out above, is that Sinn Fein have a huge mandate. I think the ordinary UDA member needs to ask their political representatives why they have been left high and dry.
Well they should give a committment to decommission or they should be left alone to rot in their boltholes.
The electoral system is open to these people and if they get a sufficient mandate then the views of Mc Donal may be worthy of consideration. As it is he is just another extortionist who ruins a good suit.
LHW: “I did not see the UTV clip (I’ll make a point of looking out for it at 6PM) but it would be deeply unfortunate to solely concentrate on just one sentence. ”
Even if it’s the most telling of the lot? Goodness — can’t let the truth get too far ahead of the spin, can we?
LHW: “There is a sense of unease in the Loyalist community concerning the opportunities and incentives that were handed out to Sinn Fein/IRA during this whole peace process and, in turn, there are expectations that similar schemes could transform and regenerate areas that are sorely in need of help. Mr McDonald is merely pointing this out.”
Were that only the truth… Another play for Danegeld, no more, no less. McDonald is not “merely pointing out” that there are areas in need — he could have done that without mentioning disarmament. By bringing Loyalist guns into the discussion, he’s made his position and his willingness to use the implied threat of violence clear.
LHW: “The great strides that have been made via the CTI (Conflict Transformation Initiative) deserve recognition and further support. I believe CTI will ultimately build the foundations for the total standing down of the UFF and the abandonment of the idea/notion that the battle for the future of this country can be fought militarily.”
Please, sir, for just a few million more, you can shut us up until our next “request” for Danegeld…
My biggest problem with Jackie McDonald or anyone like him (orange or green) is that he simply isn’t the elected voice of the grass roots that he claims to be, and thus he simply does not deserve to get the air time on a news report. If it wasn’t for a few rusty home made ‘Sten guns’ stashed away somewhere in Seymour Hill he would be a complete nobody with about as much political relevance as Tony Blair’s pet cat ‘Humphrey’.
Should the people of Northern Ireland listen to a man with a past record like his? NO!
Should the people of Northern Ireland listen to a man whose cohorts still regularly take part in extortion and intimidation on a regular basis? NO!
Should the people of Northern Ireland listen to a man whose organisation still ruins lives and communities? NO.
Jackie, get back to the darts club, your pints getting warm….
So are DUP/UDA social events a regular feature of the social calendar nowadays? It’s so hard to keep up.
As far as the DUP are concerned the ‘RA and Sinn Fein got nothing.. Who gives a shite what the UDA do, they are so insignificant in any aspect of government/politics/Military/community workers etc.
As for elections….I’ve more sheep in my yard than they have votes. When the Shinners get hold of the PSNI they will seek them on Mr. McDonald and Co.
Someone needs to point out to the UDA that what Sinn Fein (and, by extension, the IRA insofar as they bought into Sinn Fein strategy) got was a mandate from the electorate. I don’t like the shinners, but on that point they will always have a legitimacy that the UDA never did.
Dread,
It is not a question of spin but getting beyond a sound bite and understanding exactly what is being said. Now that I have seen the brief segment it was merely one aspect of a longer conversation where other issues were mentioned such as the rejection of criminality and drug dealing in Loyalist areas and a firm desire to see the new assembly up and running. There was also a more salient point made in relation to bringing everyone on-board and not leaving parts of the organisation behind in areas that feel under threat/siege. But I guess you missed that. As for your continued insistence that this is one great big scam to get hold of some mega bucks payout – think again. I understand that the financial package asked for for the continuation of the CTI scheme has surprised Government officials as it is considerably less than anticipated and devoid of any sort of “pay off” for either individuals or shady groups so that they can nip down the bookies and stick it all on some old nag at Cheltenham. But knock yourself out with the danegeld quote, it is all you seem to know.
Concerned Loyalist
“Well for a start they got plenty of money off “wannabe Oirish†pricks like you..”
What an idiot! And you expect to make friends and influence people with comments like that?
When you and your so-called comrades went round collecting money for the Provies of Sinn Fein/IRA in the bars and clubs of Boston and Irish immigrant districts of New York did you stop to think the damage you were doing to my community, the Protestant/Unionist/Loyalist people?”
Well yeah, that’s why it was done.
“I’m interested to hear your response as there have been a number of so-called “Irish American†commentators on Slugger but I’ve never come across one who was bold enough to declare themselves as a “Republicanâ€.”
What’s so wrong with being sympathetic to the republican cause?
“I am your perceived enemy, let me hear your justification for providing funds for IRA low-lifes who murdered people I knew and attempted to murder family members…”
Again with the idiot comments. How do you know IRIA provided funds to anyone? You’re just talking out of your arse.
LHW: “It is not a question of spin but getting beyond a sound bite and understanding exactly what is being said. Now that I have seen the brief segment it was merely one aspect of a longer conversation where other issues were mentioned such as the rejection of criminality and drug dealing in Loyalist areas and a firm desire to see the new assembly up and running. ”
Uh-huh… and we can expect the drug-pusher off the street when?
They have not “rejected criminality.” Jackie-boy employs “rejecting criminality” as a rhetorical device.
LHW: “There was also a more salient point made in relation to bringing everyone on-board and not leaving parts of the organisation behind in areas that feel under threat/siege. ”
“under siege.” Right. Now pull the other leg, its got bells. No one is “under siege,” except the law-abiding folks stuck in UDA / UFF dominated neighborhoods.
LHW: ” understand that the financial package asked for for the continuation of the CTI scheme has surprised Government officials as it is considerably less than anticipated and devoid of any sort of “pay off†for either individuals or shady groups so that they can nip down the bookies and stick it all on some old nag at Cheltenham.”
Like boiling a frog, you don’t try to get everything all at once, LHW.
Produce some results, rather than the usual “plant-food,” and maybe the discussion will change.
Lofty mentioned “areas that feel under threat/siege” referring, I assume, to this…
“Mr McDonald said the concerns of loyalists in Derry and North Antrim about their feelings of isolation had to be addressed by the government but he said he was more optimistic than ever before about the prospects for peace.” – u.tv
Can anyone tell me what they’re talking about? An example maybe?
When you and your so-called comrades went round collecting money for the Provies of Sinn Fein/IRA in the bars and clubs of Boston and Irish immigrant districts of New York did you stop to think the damage you were doing to my community, the Protestant/Unionist/Loyalist people?â€
Well yeah, that’s why it was done.
At least,you’re honest Harris.
lofty:
I did not see the UTV clip (I’ll make a point of looking out for it at 6PM) but it would be deeply unfortunate to solely concentrate on just one sentence.
Happens all the time. They haven’t gone away, you know.
There is a sense of unease in the Loyalist community concerning the opportunities and incentives that were handed out to Sinn Fein/IRA during this whole peace process and, in turn, there are expectations that similar schemes could transform and regenerate areas that are sorely in need of help.
They just turned out and voted DUP in their droves. If there is unease, why don’t they take it up with the DUP MLAs they just voted in ? If they need money, why don’t they get the DUP MLAs they voted in to represent them to negotiate for it ?
The only reason why the loyalists are in the news is because they possess guns, and have a history of using them. What do you think are the implications for society if people are to be rewarded for owning and using guns ?
What do you think are the implications for society if people are to be rewarded for owning and using guns ?
Uh, at a guess, more of the same?
The loyalist weapons are unlikely to be handed in.
If they were, they might be examined.
I’d say more than a few could be linked to the Reverend Paisely’s favorite terrorist group, Ulster Resistance.
And many others are ‘missing’ UDR guns.
Thanks Dread and Harris.
I’ll just let my question stand and enjoy the actual constructive comments to the post.
Concerned loyalist is just wrong on so many levels.
I find it hypocritical that the DUP can attend parties with unelected paramilitary leaders like Jackie McDonald and Andy Tyrie, yet they won’t talk to the elected representatives of Sinn Fein.
Many of you are being unfair to Jackie McDonald. He is the intellectual heartbeat of the UDA and deserves respect for the incisive analysis he brings to the table. That has long been recognised by Mary & Martin.
Miss Flood
Many of you are being unfair to Jackie McDonald. He is the intellectual heartbeat of the UDA and deserves respect for the incisive analysis he brings to the table. That has long been recognised by Mary & Martin.
Thank you Miss Flood, that’s the funniest thing I’ve read all year. I assume you’re taking the piss?
“He is the intellectual heartbeat of the UDA and deserves respect for the incisive analysis he brings to the table”
Post of the month – classic !!!
“Many of you are being unfair to Jackie McDonald. He is the intellectual heartbeat of the UDA and deserves respect for the incisive analysis he brings to the table. That has long been recognised by Mary & Martin.”
Miss Flood
To Marty(not Ingram) and Davey who responded to my post about Jackie McDonald’s intellectual prowess: You’re both right.
Love to you both but, please Marty(not Ingram), don’t use that vulgar language.
Miss Flood
Concerned Loyalist-You should seriously reconsider your role as a UDA cheerleader,maybe you should become a comedian.How can you even take Mr McDonald seriously when his organisation has no intentions of disarming?
Without any sort of political support they are in no position to demand concessions.Why should tax payers have to pay the UDA to part with their blood soaked guns?
The reason why protestant working class areas are in need of regeneration is because of the UDA
The loyalist paramilitaries can’t even pretend that they have any honour. First they said they’d decommission whenever the IRA did, they welched on that. Then they said they’d decommission when the IRA said that the war was over, they also welched on that.
Now they’re saying a combination of things; they can’t decommission while there are active dissidents (the equivalent threat didn’t stop the IRA), or until they get a suitcase full of cash from the governments. Who is going to believe them ?
Love to you both but, please Marty(not Ingram), don’t use that vulgar language.
Erm, when someone tries to tell me that Jackie McDonald is some sort of intellectual heavyweight I think they’ll get off lightly if the only “vulgar” word I use is “piss”.
They got the prisoner releases the ungrateful …….
I’ve just been reading the second booklet which the CTI have produced, ‘Learning from others in conflict’. This seems to be a very positive initiative within loyalism. The main points that struck me were the acceptance that for many years the UDA were reactive and working to other peoples agendas, and a determination that that now has to stop, and that loyalism has to develop the skills and people to pursue their aims politically. The other interesting feature is the emphasis placed now by loyalism on integrated education. I’d urge all Slugger posters to get their hands on it and have a look at what these guys are now talking about.
Fresh from gigs all over Ulster, Mc Aleese promotions present live at the K club………
Jackie and the (Intellectual) Heartbeats.