The man from Sinn Fein…
…he say ‘yes.’ Looks like it was by more than three-quarters in favour of the motion.
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Well done SF who dont seem to be found wanting when it comes to difficult and brave steps towards building a peaceful and equal society.
They will have my vote in the upcoming election.
Surely now we will have an end to the stalling and excuses that the silent majority are fed up with.
The constitional situation cant change without a democratic vote by the majority so chill pills all round. I dont see any acceptable reason why the DUP cant now reach for the olive branch and do their bit.
The constitional situation cant change without a democratic vote by the majority so chill pills all round. I dont see any acceptable reason why the DUP cant now reach for the olive branch and do their bit.
Posted by 2050 on Jan 28, 2007 @ 09:40 PM
2050, theres nothing for the DUP to respond to. SF still dont surpport the police or the courts
Devolution cant happen until they do and demonstrate it
Observer,
SF have endorsed policing & did what they promised within the SAA timeframe. A seismic shift, just like decommissioning given the history of republicanism. So I scratch my head when you say the DUP have nothing to respond to.
That is worthy of a positive DUP response and all that is required is words and intent at this stage.
Now we all have the basis off a level playing field and I don’t see any risk or threat to anyone.
There is much to do and we all have lots of everyday concerns that the people we all vote for need to deliver on. The background constitutional obsession can sit on the back boiler as that position cant change until the democratic majority in NI vote for it, so get on with local government.
Observer,
SF have endorsed policing & did what they promised within the SAA timeframe. A seismic shift, just like decommissioning given the history of republicanism. So I scratch my head when you say the DUP have nothing to respond to.
2050 , they havent endorsed policing , they will only do so if and when devolution occurs.
I wish youd read the motion
Thanks FD. I think you’re right – the quality of dissident on show over the last number of weeks has been pretty woeful. Even if the refusenik elements of RSF/CIRA/RIRA/PIRA/SF etc. etc. did have the ability to form some sort of cohesive political bloc, they have so transparently lost the argument on an island-wide basis that they would be wiped out electorally. One assumes that the ‘phoney war’ period between today’s resolution and the devolution of power will give the Shinners ample opportunity to start demonstrating their bona fides to the DUP e.g. more goodwill to the PSNI on the ground, calls to report crime etc. etc.
they havent endorsed policing , they will only do so if and when devolution occurs.
I wish youd read the motion .
So they can have preconditions to. SF did what they said they would after the SAA. Everyone has a veto and round we round we go.
The SAA was a vague framework given to the two partys to work to or else the pin & money would be pulled.
Its a sequencing issue now.
If the DUP did what they said they would do and that was only words
If the DUP did what they said they would do and that was only words I’m sure the motion would have went further.
Its just sequencing and both partys have to make it happen eventually so why not now.
2050 youre the one who said SF have endorsed policing…the truth is the havent and wont for a while , if ever
I believe what we witnessed today was a remarkable demonstration of leadership. The ongoing ability to lead a people out of conflict. Such leadership requires courage.
But conflict cannot be resolved unilateraly. If only the leaders of unionism could demonstrate a fraction of such courage, we could all get round to living in some sort of normal society.
Instead they continue to pander to negative elements who have built their entire political existence around hatred of all things Irish and Catholic. If this is a true reflection of the communities they represent then a genuine courageous leader would be the one to say they had got it wrong. Unionism has yet to put forward such a man (or woman) in its 100 year history. Here’s hoping.
“I have watched a couple of broadcasts now and whilst it is clearly carried by the majority it is had to tell by how many. I disagree with the standard journo line already, that it was 90% or above. Seems like nonsense to me.â€
Not all in attendance had a vote, there were many visitors (Cumann members without vote) and guests. It was easily 90%
Posted by visitor on Jan 28, 2007 @ 08:51 PM
D’oh…been there and done that visitor. I was looking at hands raised for yes and no, not the hands that remained down for either. Wakey wakey.
I still don’t think it was 90%, but I find it miraculous that so many people have now watched and independently agreed it was 90%. It really is uncanny. Or perhaps the judgement of yourself and many others was made by the first commentators and has now become the conventional wisdom.
Why no ballot at a one vote AF? Seems strange to me…as a result we will never know now visitor will we?
Observer,
Which part of this snippet from the motion today are you not clear about.
“Sinn Féin reiterates our support for An Garda SÃochána and commits fully to:
1. Support for the PSNI and the criminal justice system.”
2. etc etc
2050, wish youd read to the end:
The Ard Chomhairle recommends: That this Ard Fheis endorses the Ard Chomhairle motion. That the Ard Chomhairle is mandated to implement this motion
only when the power-sharing institutions are established and when the Ard Chomhairle is satisfied that the policing and justice powers will be transferred.
Or if this does not happen within the St Andrews timeframe, only when acceptable new partnership arrangements to implement the Good Friday Agreement are in place.
so conditional its worthless at the moment
Observer
Repeating the same point over and over and over gets a tad tiresome eventually.
We are looking at a litmus test for people here. The traditional left wing way is that everyone should be equal. Right wing is – there are natural divisions.
This vote was for all the people in NI to have an equal police force, as provided for by agreement endorsed by all the people, years ago.
Those who are aginst it are the right wing of Sinn Fein and the DUP who only have their sense of injustice at a lost cause to keep them going.
I feel sorrow for them – they thought they were left wing or libertarian, but now they are simply the reactionaries – fighting aginst the will of the people for a joined prosperity. And all they have to counter that is selfish ideology. Right wingers – the edge of the left joins you.
Observer, We could both go on cherry picking all night and I dont want to bog the thread down for others!
The motion is still passed which is very progressive and delivery on SAA in my opinion.
Implementation?
“when the Ard Chomhairle is satisfied that the policing and justice powers will be transferred.”
The DUP or The British goverment could make this happen with a sentence and everyone knows it.
so conditional its worthless at the moment.
bit strong. I disagree, little bit sequencing and the next few months will tell.
Observer
Repeating the same point over and over and over gets a tad tiresome eventually.
Posted by joeCanuck on Jan 28, 2007 @ 11:21 PM
Joe – the truth hurts i know, but SF still DO NOT support the police
If this thing collapses it will be becasue republicans couldnt make the final jump into democracy
Ian Paisley jr was on RTE tonight and he was asked what he means by delivery. It was all about reporting crime and co-operating with the police on the ground.
That is all stuff that can happen straight away. I think we’re on the way.
Ian Paisley jr was on RTE tonight and he was asked what he means by delivery. It was all about reporting crime and co-operating with the police on the ground.
That is all stuff that can happen straight away. I think we’re on the way.
Posted by Henry94 on Jan 28, 2007 @ 11:39 PM
If its so easy why couldnt Pat Doherty say that on the politics show tonite?
Pat was suggesting (The week in Politics RTE1) that they are waiting for a pre-arranged formula of words from Big Ian which they expect tomorrow and I understood it to mean even the AC mandates could happen then.
The AC are committed to the substance of the motion and I really don’t see that they have any interest in delay.
If Paisley, who knows what’s going on, is anything less than than generous then it won’t be the Sinn Fein Ard Chomhairle he is worried about but his own.
I think it’s fair to say that SF have signalled their clear intent to support the PSNI, when certain conditions are met.
However, backtracking to a position of opposition again is extremely unlikely, given the difficulties of arriving at this point, and the political process can ‘pocket’ SF’s endorsement – ie, take it for granted.
Comrade S
Sorry- been enteraining myself this evening watching Pat Doherty wriggle on the Politics show and seeing the chagrin on Empey and Attwood’s faces as they realise the DUP and Sf have them boxed into corners. Anyway, re Sammy- he ain’t that firmly onside usually. Too independent-minded. Much more telling that they’ve had ian Jr on RTE and Jeffrey D on Politics show saying nice things. By the way have you noticed the lack of description by DUP of SF?IRA? It seems to be just SF now. Here’s to getting devolution back ASAP. By the by, I thought that the most competent ministers in the last administration were Peter Robinson and Martin McGuinness. More power to them. You don’t need to love your neighbour – you just need them to be able to do their job effectively!! Night all
david vance asked if this was a provisional endorsement.
I would ask if it is an Offical endorsement?
ps Were are pat and chris-hanging their heads in shame i hope.
heck
I hope they are enjoying a few well-earned beers after a good days work at that Ard Fheis.
Observer, We could both go on cherry picking all night and I dont want to bog the thread down for others!
2050, I suppose sticking your head in the sand might seem theraputic, but to rational people it is important not to ignore glaring issues. The SF motion says quite clearly and directly that the provisions granted in the motion cannot take effect until the powersharing institutions have been restored. That’s black and white. You can’t wave your hand and pretend it isn’t there. The Sinn Fein leadership have no authority or power to join the police board, encourage people to support the police and courts, or do anything else different until powersharing has come back. You’re free to argue that they do have that power – but if so, you have to explain how they’re going to get around that precondition.
That precondition was put there for a reason. I’ve no doubt that there are people in SF still with their doubts who will be watching to ensure that the party leadership scrupulously sticks to the wording. That means no police support until devolution. End of.
The DUP or The British goverment could make this happen with a sentence and everyone knows it.
The resumption of powersharing requires both agreement and legislation.
graduate:
Anyway, re Sammy- he ain’t that firmly onside usually. Too independent-minded.
He is independent, but I think he believes in devolution. Any rational, reasonably intelligent person can tell that direct rule is damaging us all, and being old fashioned about sharing power with taigs is self-defeating.
Here’s to getting devolution back ASAP.
I am hopeful and even guardedly optimistic that this is the case, but don’t underestimate the power of the dark side. How many MLAs do you think the DUP leadership will be able to keep onside if there is a significant split ? And if there’s a big split, how will Paisley be first minister ? That will fall to the next largest party which will of course be… SF. You think they’ll sit there and take that ?
This is a declaration of intent that cannot be gone back on. The precondition is for negotiating purposes. Nothing more nothing less
About joining Policing Board and D.P.P.s
These bodies run on 4 year Appointments The last lot started in Dec.2005 and almost all have full complement of seats filled ,both with Independants and Councillers .How can S.F. be put on these bodies before 2009 when new Appointments take place.? The numbers are set by electoral numbers in each council district Will this be fudged too?