It seems policing is a number one desireable job amongst Polish immigrants. According to the BBC, “968 of a total of more than 7,700 applications last November were from Poles – more than 12%”. Thanks to Robert for the heads up!
Dr Gordon Gillespie, a researcher at the Institute of Irish Studies at Queen’s University Belfast, gave a presentation on “Graphic Portrayals: Northern Ireland, Graphic Novels and the Peace Process”, at the Linen Hall Library. Gordon started with a clarification that he was going to talk about graphic novels/comic books, not cartoons, and material that was [...] read our review »
everyone relax.there will be a few token poles who,ll pose with the politicos for “look how far we,ve come we,re so multicultural photo ops”, will pretend be looking out for polish community and will keep an eye on polish criminal element and that will be it.
“This 50%-50% quota thing is getting unsustainable.”
No, it’s really not until the force is representative.
ditto chinese and african cops
Harry
“I too was an emigrant. When I emigrated I didn’t………….”
Why don’t all you emigrants bugger off back to where you went to?
Says a lot about community policing if the officers don’t even come from the community,and have not been here long enough to integrate in to either community, it’s up the f**king left. If they speak broken english its even worse, and most likely won’t be able to prepare a report, or have any knowledge of the law above whats necessary to get into the job. Of course when their homes are set on fire blah blah all will shout racism, even tho that is traditionally how we treat the police.
A comedy show.
Harry writes of how Ireland was priest-ridden and is now corrupt. He speaks of Ireland as a whore. Then he complains about how the British frame Ireland as backward and ignorant – though he seems to be giving himself carte blanche to do just that.
He doesn’t want to be policed by “outsiders”, as it would be humiliating for him, and is a job he deems inappropriate for them, apparently the ability to tell the difference between right and wrong in Northern Ireland is contingent on birthright or long years of residence there, and not on any principles of law.
Hmm…
I know I shouldn’t feed trolls, especially racist ones, but this guy … dear me.
“The old ‘xenophobia’ diatribe against those who actually investigate what these things mean”
Harry, you don’t sound like you’ve actually investigated anything in a very long time.
“I come from a liberal background and always considered myself a liberal in these things.”
LOL
This ‘post-nationalism’ works, as I have pointed out, always in favour of british nationalism and always in the effort ot attenuate irish nationalism. “
Firstly, you haven’t pointed out anything – you have made a baseless claim. More importantly, surely “post-nationalism,” if that even has anything whatsoever to do with this, wouldn’t see either British or Irish nationalism and therefore would be working for or against neither. A GCSE politics student could tell you that.
“Irish nationalsim is the big ‘No No, because apparently being 85% of the population of the island is inconvenient to british interests and so must be represented as backward and threatening. “
If anyone on this island is portrayed as backward (by the real media anyway, leaving Hollywood out of this) it’s nobody in the Republic.
“This is about power, about structures of power, about feeling ownership of your society and confidence in asserting that.”
Wrong. This is about law and order and community safety – that includes the Polish community.
“It is about those who seek to push through ‘post-nationalist’ realities for british nationalist reasons. “
See above. Maybe you should take that GCSE politics course.
“It is about a nation which has nebver had a chance to be fully a nation being pushed somewhere else psychologically and sociologically before it ever has a chance to be a nation again.”
Emotive, sentimental inaccurate bullshit which doesn’t need a response besides the pool of vomit that’s just appeared on my floor.
“The british have gone furthest in recruitment of ethnic minorites into their police forces. It is therefore, out of all of europe, the british example (along with the american) we are being asked to follow. There is no reason why we should do so.”
So the UK has one of the best records on integrating the new migrants into the structures of the state? Excellent news.
“Polish people walking into this situtaion to become police officers are asking for trouble.”
Catholics moving into Protestant areas are asking to be burned out, aren’t they?
“Stopping an irish person on the street and demanding information off them as a foreigner with a gun strapped to your side is offensive and depowering for the host community.”
I don’t know about you but I don’t think I’ve ever been stopped on the street by the cops, but I wouldn’t have a problem with it regardless of who they were if they’re doing their job.
“Those who deny these realities are choosing a future that is less interesting and more depowered than is possible.”
Realities; I’m not sure that term can be applied to anything you’ve said.
Actually I have some sympathy for Harry’s position even if he does get a bit overwrought. If as a native you are part of a group which rejects the current policing structure then it follows logically that foreigners being brought in to bolster that policing structure is unacceptable.
However the way he frames his argument reminds me of watching riots in Derry in my youth, when the army snatch squads grabbed a couple of yobbos and gave them their well desreved hiding there was much tut-tutting among the older folk about British brutality, but if one of the squaddies giving “our boys” a good thumping happened to be black well, the outrage went off the meter.
“Fuckin’ n!gger cunt coming over here and beating up our poor wee fellas, fuckin’ black bastard only out of the jungle himself!” well, no need to continue, you get the picture. Offensive xenophobia is never far under the surface of Irish nationalism.
“In this case it would seem a bunch of Poles have arrived recently and fancy setting themselves up as plenipotentiaries of a long-disputed power.â€
So a bunch of Poles were sitting in a pub in Belfast discussing employment prospects and one of them pipes up “I know, let’s set ourselves up as defenders of a Protestant monarch.�
Seriously Harry, the next time the joint comes round your way, take a drag.
“European culture†is not something from a period movie. Rather, it’s a thing that evolves as we Europeans grow closer together.
Indeed, the mainland will have a lot to learn from the European Isles about police integration
The Poles come under the 50:50 recruitment as they are required to declare themselves as Catholic, Protestant or other. the figures of the no of applicants is known as these people responded to adds in Polish papers. Not known how many from other countries, including Lithuania, Bulgaria, etc… The one interesting thing is that there are officers from Brazil, Iran, New Zealand and France already in PSNI.
I’m a university lecturer who’s worked all over the world this past ten years and having recently returned home I have to say that people from the northern counties of Ireland display some of the most insidious forms of racism imaginable.
Not everyone – just too many.
(1) This idea that a divine set of rights to work/citizenship etc are granted by birth and are closed to outsiders.
(2) That culture is a fixed rather than evolving thing.
(3) That northern nationalism and northern unionism are microcosms of the Republic and of Britain/England/UK (whatever you want to call it) when in fact they are seriously outdated ideologies that breed prejudice and paranoia.
(4) That bigotry can be excused in the name of a higher political cause or that racist vitriol is excusable because of all we’ve suffered in history.
(5) That the whole world cares about this protestant/catholic bullshit.
(6) That everyone has a political agenda; that somebody cannot be free from the external influence of British or Irish politics.
(7) That all immigrants are treated badly in other parts of the world – not true.
(8) That you can’t be racist if you are not talking about a black or Asian person. Most of us are racist in Northern Ireland. I was brought up to think of Protestants as a different race. As such I was and may still be a racist.
I could go on and on but that’s all I want to say. Who cares what religion a policeman is as long as he or she is not a swaggering bully or a thug who enforces his/her political views on the position or the people they are serving?
Isn’t it more important to have cops who care about their job than a cop of a particular political/ethnic/religious orientation?
Do you really think a white middle class Catholic from the Gold Coast will care any more or less about the people of Lagmore/Andersonstown/South Armagh than a Polish or Chinese officer?
Actually I’d say if a Polish person lived in west Belfast it’d be better for him to police the area than somebody from outside the community.
Let them alone for God sake. Do you really want these people going back to their country and saying the north of Ireland is the European equivalent of America’s deep south?
I have to agree with most of what Paul has said.
It is unfair to claim that those Polish applicants are only in it for the money. They may well see it as an excellent way to integrate into and contribute to our society.
Also it wrong to say that policing is not their business. If they intend to spend the rest of their lives in NI and raise families there then it is as much their business as anyone else that this society is safe and well policed.
Apart from that, if you were to believe some of the posts on this thread, you would be expecting Land Rovers full of foreigners landing at incidents like a foreign occupying force.
Surely a small number of non-Northern Irish officers in the PSNI would enhance its ability to police the evermore diverse community there. It’ll never be much more than a small number.
Xenophobia will do much more harm to a society than a small number of ethnic minority police officers in the local service.
BTW does anyone have a reputable source on the 50:50 recruitment not applying and/or Polish Catholics being lumped in with Protestants and other minorities??
From today’s Times (of London):
>>>A spokeswoman for the PSNI told The Times that Poles could count towards the quota of Catholics. She said: “When anybody applies for a post it is up to them to say what religion they are — Protestant, Catholic or other. If they put themselves down as Catholic they will fall within the 50-50 recruitment policy.â€< <<
If Polish Catholics wanting to join the peelers have any sense they will put themselves down as Catholics, and not just because they are Catholics. If you know what I mean.
Actually, of all the pseudo-intellectual literary theory psychobabble Harry spouted the thing that amazed me most was his shock at these Poles wanting to become peelers for the money. I mean, people working for the money. How shocking.
What planet do you live on sunshine? I can’t stand my job but I do it for the money and I suspect most people are in the same boat. Oh, but I’m not Polish so maybe it’s OK for me?
I must admit this one had me feeling happy with the world. When you introduce silly rules fate has a way of highlighting the stupidity.
Employ on ability; not to do so is where discrimination lies. Wonder how many Romanians will apply in a few years?
Harry – should Poles have to follow the law of the land, but not be permitted to participate in serving the law of the land? If they don’t like it, they can piss off back to Poland, is that your theory? As there are significant numbers of Poles here now, it makes perfect sense that people will want to take up posts in a wide range of avenues. I’d love to know what a ‘normal job’ that doesn’t “agress” the population. Stick to bar work and construction, eh?
For what its worth, I think it should be remembered that this is the first time in the history of Ireland that we have experienced a continous net immigration.
Studies on this area in the past have always focussed on emmigration and the safety valve it provided over many centuries.
This situation of people being able to come to our country and find work is unprecendented. As with many other things that are new and unimaginable, we are trying to make sense of it.
While I would share Pauls views almost entirely, I think that just telling people they are ‘wrong’ for the sake of it is not helpful. This is not something within the range of experience for our citizens and frankly its no surprise to find people reacting like this. We can all be shocked and horrified and smugly complacent if we are world travellers, but the problem remains.
The world is different and poluations are shifting in a way not really seen in a simialr fashion in the past. Improving understanding, better integration and shared opportunites will help, but it will take time.
Leaving Croke Park a few months ago, I quipped that it wouldne be long before there would be a Polish kid on in the field wearing a Laois jumper. I was amazed at the hostility of the reaction, so this is obviously our next big problem. If we dont face it and deal with it, we are really just storing it up
Many Irish people have experience of this – we have lived and worked in other countries where 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants made up 16% or so of the population. We are familiar with england, continental europe and the united states. To suggest this reaction is due to ignorance is self-regarding and narrow-minded. It’s about power. It’s about foreigners coming into a situation where they are choosing to interfere in highly political concerns for their own career reasons.
The Poles have only been here for 2 years and yet they want to police us? And people find this a sensible suggestion? Ethnic minorities in the British police are mostly from the 2nd and 3rd generation of those communities in that country. No doubt some officers from the new communities are employed for community liaison reasons, which is understandable and necessary.
But apparently people here think 1st generation immigrants who’ve only been here a couple of years should be sent out to police us and that it’s a great thing altogether. Sure aren’t we all a bunch of backward savages anyway who need to leave our ideas of nationalism behind?
Those who engage in a grand ‘mea culpa’ about our society while leaving the british responsibility for fucking up our country out of it and simultaneously looking to foreigners to solve our problems are not ‘enlightened’, they are in self-denial. The only thing they will achieve is the perpetuation of depowerment, not its remedy. How else could it be the case, since they are too embarrassed and fraught with self-apology to take a grip on their country?
Harry, I don’t think all 1000 Poles will be given posts. But I don’t think we should be terrified or deeply angered by the fact that they are applying either. I don’t see why it’s automatically a damaging idea for foreigners to apply to PSNI. Why shouldn’t Poles want a career? It seems that you are advocating a notion that foreigners should be required to do menial work that natives do not wish to take up. If you really come down to it, anyone moving to NI is ‘interfering’, shaking up the gene pool and shifting cultural notions. Yes, that can be scary; change is scary. But you assume it will be negative and I just don’t see that’s the case. Could you imagine that Poles might wish to join PSNI to serve their community, not just to exercise power over hapless natives? I have relatives who were police, and not one of them ever said the key satisfaction was to break people’s balls and keep them in line. They all speak of a wish to work constructively in the community they live in. Poles who join the police are likely to stake a committment to stay here.
PS A few Poles in PSNI will not solve the problems this country faces, and I’m sure they would hoot with laughter if this premise was presented to them. I’m chuckling about it.
As is often the case on Slugger, I cannot envisage any resolution to this debate. It seems to me that the contending viewpoints are simply poles apart.
“Poles who join the police are likely to stake a committment to stay here”
Let them stake a commitment first and then apply to the police. Not the other way around.
Such policing is not normal in continental europe, or in most places in the world as far as I am aware – apart that is from former colonies in the english-speaking world. What does that tell you about the origin of the motivations toward this radical change in the way we enforce law upon ourselves? I would find being stopped and questioned by a Polish person about my movements around my country unacceptable. Just as I have found the british army and the RUC an unacceptable imposition against my will and against my interests.
The same is true for other countries – I doubt most europeans would accept what you propose. My own partner is a foreigner who has lived here for many years and even she does not agree with this proposal.
Demanding that people integrate over many years before being allowed to join the police is not tantamount to ensuring new arrivals are made to flip burgers and nothing else. Ridiculous. Reductio ad absurdum is often employed in argument, especially on the internet, but rarely convincingly. Everything is open up to foreigners and many are welcome to come here. But policing is different.
As regards the ‘backward ideology’ of demanding a resolution of our political issues in a way that is favourable to our sense of nationhood, I would just point out that the greatest power on earth is currently engaged in one of its greatest bouts of nationalistic self-aggrandisement – the United States. Globalisation is as much a push for American hegemony in the world as it is the result of ‘enlightenment’, indeed probably more so.
As I say, who controls the future controls the present.
Harry
You seem to be imbuing the police with special kind of powers, well beyond the uphodling of law and order. Police dont change mind sets nor are they empowered to do this.
Its well to leave the high debate for a while and remember the reality on the ground. I was stopped last night by a police patrol outside Rathfriland. One of my headlights was out, and the officer was making a song and dance about it. Did I know it was an offence, how long did I know, was I prepared to fix it, did I realise it was irresponsible. Finally, I got mad and told him to give me a ticket, if it would shut him up. In the end he declined and gave me a warning.
Thats everyday ordinary policing, and it doesnt matter a damn who is doing it. We are moving to a multi culturally mixed society, and this is about equality of opportunity for all those who reside here, and not excluively to those who have 9 generations in the cemetary
Nice to see the locals completely failing to grasp the concept of Europe, once again. Free movement of labour, any EU citizen can work in any EU country. It’s that simple. The Polis are a job, to most normal people anyway. Poles, French, German, etc anyone in the EU can do it, it only happens that the only place thats a bigger sh!thole the N.I. happens to be Poland.
It is a handy example of how NI;s political stagnations / complete ineptitude of their politicians has been to their consituents disadvantage, yet again, now their even less likely to get a job, SF and DUP should put that in their manifesto.
ps what is the current position of SF on policing? it hard to keep track of. Ah but they’ve got this huge fundamental gain on rubber bullets, well done.
Theoretical question, what happens if Polish uptake in the PSNI is so great that there end up being more Poles than “Catholics” (well no the right type of SF approved shinner Catholics) in the PSNI, What will SF whinge about next?
Many continental societies are multi-cultural and they don’t employ police who have only been in their country for a couple of years. Most europeans would find it unacceptable. Your coupling of the two concepts is neither necessary nor normal.
Please confirm how you know that most Europeans would find it unacceptable. My guess is that most Europeans don’t give a toss, and my evidence (a hunch) is just as convincing as what you’ve provided so far (your own hunch).
I would find being stopped and questioned about my movements irritating by anyone, but I wouldn’t have an extra-special irritation if the officer was Polish.
So you don’t want Poles to flip burgers, how grand of you. But you really think that policing is a particularly extraordinary case of a special position? How shall we check integration? Sorry, you’re not quite integrated enough sir, please apply when you can prove that you are fully integrated.
The ‘my own partner is a foreigner’ is a popular argument as well, but that merely proves that you and your partner have similar ideas. What about the BNP ballerina who has a Cuban partner? Does that prove she isn’t racist? Hardly.
Miss Fitz – I thought from your previous posting you were such a responsible, upstanding person. Now we know otherwise. Ha ha.
Leaving Croke Park a few months ago, I quipped that it wouldne be long before there would be a Polish kid on in the field wearing a Laois jumper. I was amazed at the hostility of the reaction
Not surprising Miss Fitz, just sad.
Didn’t David McWilliams always say that one of the ways he was guaranteed to get a rise on his Dublin talk radio show was to talk about Nigerian Guards in your community or somesuch. The phone lines would soon jam with highly entertaining bigots.
There has always been this little bit of Irish vanity that we were somehow model immigrants in other countries and also that we are somehow uniquely tolerant. While I don’t want to slam the Irish diaspora or the contribution they made to the countries they moved to – after all I’m part of it myself – but the rose tinted spectacles don’t help. Along with Irish hard work went a fair minority Irish sponging on the dole; along with Irish community spirit went Irish crime linked to Irish alcoholism; along with the Irish cultural contribution went Irish clannishness, still visible in places like South Boston today. Yes, our hard labour fuelled economic miracles but we had our share of chancers and scumbags like any other nationality – and probably more than our fair share of winos.
You hear this line about Belfast now that when we went abroad we were all skilled workers but all these Poles are just a crowd of unskilled navvies. Which isn’t just inaccurate and demeaning to the Poles coming here, who tend to be better educated than we are, but it’s a fair bit of window-dressing on our own history.
And as a group, we were spectacularly racist – why do you think the Irish cop was such a figure of fear and loathing to the black communities of New York and Chicago? What ethnic origin did the trade union leaders who agitated for the White Australia policy as late as the 1970s have? Where did the white middle-management of the slave-fuelled Caribbean plantations come from in the 18th Century?
So given all that, and given that countries with a genuine history of racial tolerance like Holland or Spain have serious issues around race relations these days, can anyone really be surprised that there’s so much racism in Ireland.
(And the Ulster Prods are probably even worse!)
Reading s46(8)(thanks Miss Fitz) and the statement in The Times from the PSNI rep that the Polish would be considered Catholics, it seems to me that the PSNI interpretation of s46(8) could be legally challenged. I hope that:
1. The PSNI does recruit Polish as Catholics (incidentally they are only 12% of applicants)
2. Someone challenges the interpretation and wins
3. The Polish are then considered part of the Protestant quota, and then it may well be that there are more Catholics than Protestants in the PSNI
Animus
In my defence, I didnt know the light was out, and I offered to take a ticket!
I used it as an example, because it seems to me we are losing the reality of what policing means. Between Sinn Fein and the fairy police who are kind hearted, community oriented, enabling officers, and other people who believe they are going to be Orwellian mind melders, its time to get back to basics.
Peelers are out on the streets, stopping traffic, moving traffic, investigating crimes (well, in theory), and managing areas of public order.
You do not need a sense of the community to hand out a silly ticket for a broken headlight.
PS, Dear Mr Orde, I had it fixed this morning.
I reckon why not have Polish people in the PSNI? The logical outcome of the EU is that anyone from anywhere in the memberstates can move to and do any type of work in any other of the memberstates, providing they have the necessary skills and linguistic ability of course.
However, one thing troubles me. I have been in Spain for the last few years and I have never heard of there being many non-Spanish in the police here. Does anyone know if there are any barriers to non-nationals being recruited into the police in Spain, France, Germany etc?
It’d be interesting to see how many of the Polish applicants possessed relevant qualifications or were simply attracted to this among other (to them) well-paid jobs? As they are resident here and are in the main Catholic, they are in fact in legal terms “Northern Ireland Catholics.” In some areas it becomes clearer that there is a need to police a specific ethnic population with several tens of thousands with appropriately skilled officers.
In response to Animus’ fair comment above about being generally irritated by inconvenience but not especially being irritated by inconvenience caused by someone obviously Polish or “not like me” I think I should point out that there is one group which is so “especially irritated.”
They are the bigots and racists and should be highlighted as such, however irritating it is them.
Sammy Morse
“So given all that, and given that countries with a genuine history of racial tolerance like Holland or Spain”
As an immigrant to Spain, I find your misguided opinion that Spain is racially tolerant laughable.
I am tolerated because I am not an economic migrant but a cliamte ex patriate.
The intolerance shown here to Nigerians, Morrocans and laterly Romanians is scary to say the least. Franco is alive and well in the minds of many Spanish. In sport particualarly football, Spain is currently suffering from what was a plague in Britain in the eighties, this is also happening in Holland.
Harry is an extreme Irish republican and usually says the things on these threads that other republican bigots are afraid to say. I have always maintained that racism is the only thing that fully transcends the religous divide in Ireland, North and South, so your last bracketed comment was offensive, generic and unnecessary, and you should retract it.
“The one interesting thing is that there are officers from Brazil, Iran, New Zealand and France already in PSNI.”
Lol, I hope David Vance doesn’t see that, considering his general view of Iran and France.
“Harry is an extreme Irish republican and usually says the things on these threads that other republican bigots are afraid to say.”
That comment is more full of genuine viciousness and shallow-headedness than anything which I have had to say.
Really? Try these out for size – vicious, bigoted and condoning threats and violence against people simply because of their nationality….
‘These Poles are mercenaries. If they want to work, they should fuck off and find a job that doesn’t aggress half the population. Otherwise they’re asking for trouble – and they’ll deserve it.’
‘If these Poles want to work let them find a normal job. Otherwise they deserve to be run out of it.’
Doctor Who
While I have previously chided Harry for his emotional response to this thread this type of barracking on your part must be out of order.
While I disagree with his opinion I will defend his right to hold that that opinion, and furthermore I must commend his fortitude in the face of the heckling (mine included) he has endured.
You mention neo-Francoism and then conclude with “Harry is an extreme Irish republican who says things on these threads that other republican bigots are afraid to say.â€
Many Irish republicans flew in the face of Papist Ireland (1920-1990) and their own command and went out to Spain to defend what they couldn’t do at home: a republic free from the shackles of insidious Vatican influence and backward home-grown tyranny.
They fought and died against the grandparents of the people you despise today.
Maybe if they were more militarily successful your average day might be a tad more pleasant.
I find your misguided opinion that Spain is racially tolerant laughable.
Historically, yes, it was. Miscagenation (sorry, but I can’t find a more precise word) was tolerated, to an extent even actively encouraged, in the Spanish colonies for example. Unlike us Irish who were always bigoted so and sos when we went abroad.
As a southerner working for the PSNI, I can say that noone I have met there cares about one’s religion (or lack thereof). I was at a training course recently for new officers, warning them of the delights of N. Irish street violence, showing CCTV footage of horrific attacks. As a victim got a terrible blow to the head, a voice piped up, in best Dublinese: “Jaysus, look at tha’ poor fecker”. (It wasn’t me, by the way).
Re being counted as C or P: when you apply, you fill in a form which is used to determine your deemed community membership (and forms no part of the decision process re recruitment). You can state your religion if you want; it tells you that if you do not, other details you provide will be used to assess your deemed community membership (e.g school attended, etc.). For foreigners, if they do not state a religion, it will be hard for PSNI to classify them. So the answer to the burning issue is: if a Pole (or anyone else) says he is a C, then he is deemed to be a C. If he says he is a P, he is deemed to be a P. If he says nothing, he may well be deemed to be neither.
More generally, I would like to say that the PSNI has moved on. Religion does not matter. Getting home safely after a day’s work is my priority and that of my colleagues. There are loads of people called Seamus, Mairead, etc., in PSNI. It is no big deal.
By the way, NEVER EVER drink and drive, I have had to break the news to a loved one re a death and it will stay with me till I die.
William
It’s heartening to see the Blut und Boden xenophobes very much on the lunatic fringe of opinion here. A nice post by Paul.
I’ve noted a considerable amount of bile accompanied by a profound absence of actual intelligence in most of the posts supporting this proposal. ‘Facile’ would be a word to describe it.
I have the habits of most european countries on my side. Most of you have merely the perversity of the north as the motivating factor in your desire to undo ‘that troublesome’ nationalism. I am sensible, you are extreme, but you speak from within such an extreme situation that you denigrate good sense in favour of extremism and call it moderate. Laughable.
Harry
I am sensible, you are extreme, but you speak from within such an extreme situation that you denigrate good sense in favour of extremism and call it moderate.
Newspeak?
Paul
Good post. Like yourself have lived here and there and agree with your observations.
A lot of the Poles have had time in the army.They can be good at hand to hand combat.That can be good for our streets and it can be bad particularly if one or two goes berserk while on duty. Is there some sort of vetting system?
John
Why should Poles be more inclined to go berserk than anyone else, surely anyone armed in such a state is equally problematic?
If Harry wasnt apparently an Irish Republican, he’d be (a wellknown extreme rightwing NI blogger).
Note the description of those opposed to him as “lacking in intelligence” and try substituting “Muslim” in his arguments for “Pole/Polish.” See what I mean?
Harry
“That comment is more full of genuine viciousness and shallow-headedness than anything which I have had to say. ”
Er! NO,
“Many Irish republicans flew in the face of Papist Ireland (1920-1990) and their own command and went out to Spain to defend what they couldn’t do at home: a republic free from the shackles of insidious Vatican influence and backward home-grown tyranny”
A lot more “Irish Republicans” went to Spain to defeat the democratically elected republic at the request of the Catholic church.
You defend Harry for his right to racial hatred, well I defend my right to highlight his ignorance.
The story is false,there are next to no Poles applying.
Who planted this story in the press and why?
After checking several policing agencies’ recruitment requirements here in California, be it for city police, county sheriff or state highway patrol the one common denominator is citizenship.
It boggles my mind that non-citizens, no matter what their ethincity, could be police.
If these Polish recruits are citizens then great, more power to them but, if not, then I’m against it. For me the issue is citizenship, not what country an immigrant is from.
Just as a point of comparison, here are the requirements you must meet to apply for a job in the Toronto Police Service.
From: http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/careers/minreq.php
Age:
18 – 65 years of age
Education:
Minimum grade 12 or equivalent [essentially, equivalent to A-level] post-secondary is advantageous
Residence:
Canadian Citizen or permanent residency status
Background:
No criminal convictions without pardon and be of good moral character and habits
Vision:
Minimum of 20/40 (uncorrected), with normal colour acuity
Hearing:
Must meet hearing standards as established by the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police
Driving:
Ontario class “G” licence (upon submitting application) a quality driving record with less than six demerit points
First Aid / CPR:
Certified in level C prior to employment
Until I checked the Toronto Police’s web site I had thought you needed to be a Canadian citizen in order to apply. A “permanent resident” is someone who has the right to work and remain in Canada for the rest of their life (assuming they are not caught committing a serious crime) and who can apply for Canadian citizenship after 3 years.
With regard to Poles becoming members of the PSNI, I would say 2 things. First, if EU labour laws mean anything then Poles have just as much right to work as cops as they do bartenders. Second, as NI (slowly) becomes more multi-cultural it makes sense to have a more diverse police force. We have been wrestling with this in Toronto for a while. In 10 to 15 years the visible minority in Toronto will become the visible “majority”. It will be quite a while after that before the Police Service in Toronto reflects that fact.
As an aside, I was back in NI for a week in Summer 2006, but didn’t run into any Poles. But that was probably because I spent most of my time in Castlerock and Donaghadee. LOL.
Donaghadee
Pretty nice area that part of the island