SF’s Kathy Stanton not contesting next assembly election
The Irish News has confirmation from Sinn Féin MLA Kathy Stanton that she will not be standing[subs req] in the next assembly election [whenever that is - Ed] citing “personal, family, commitments”. The North Belfast MLA denied voicing concerns at meetings about the Sinn Féin strategy on policing, noted here previously, and emphasised that she would remain an active member of the party including campaigning for their candidates in the assembly election. Interestingly she is also quoted as saying, “I have always stated that I support the Sinn Féin ard chomhairle’s motions.” The ard chomhairle motion following St Andrews stated “We reject any role for MI5 in Ireland or in civic policing.” The Irish News reports that the Sinn Féin candidates for North Belfast are to be current MLA, Gerry Kelly, and Belfast councillor Caral Ni Chuilin.
Apologies ‘Martin’. It was a case of mistaken identity.
‘Thinking it’ is one thing, ‘proving it’ is another.
I did not say it was a sf strategy. I said fascism had been tried before, and that the sf strategy of grabbing power in both parts of the island thru the pursuit of power would ultimately lead IMO to a one party state. SF need to be the biggest party on the island in both parts of the island for their strategy to work, it will not work if sf is in a minority position, for although most societies are mature enough (save NI) to look after their minorities I fear a powerful sf in power would not lead to a mature or free society on this island.
That is my opinion I am entitled to post it without name calling, and if you cannot as mick said make a point with detracting from it via personal attack, then you have no argument.
How stupid is that?
Mick.
Is that “Thinking” Sinn Fein and Martin McGuinness lie? would you like evidence of that activity? .
Just ask mate, I would be content to widen this debate.LOL
Ingram.
Mick, thinking SF are liars? Come on – keep your site in the real world.
And sean incase you still don’t get it, sf need in order to unite the two parts of the island the support of the majority of the people on the island. They don’t even have a fraction of the electorate in the south to consider themselves a major player, they are small fry inthe republic. To work-the strategy of uniting both parts depends on a powerful sf. A powerful sf, a party whose future actions should be judged on their past actions of crushing free speech would in my opinion be a disaster.
But I agree your cheap response to not detract from what you say via personal attack does amount to contempt for other posters and for mick, who asks all posters not to engage in cheap name calling.
This is intended as a serious question not pointscoring – does anyone else feel that the ‘top-down’ attitude fostered by ideas that a constitutional monarchy helps in some way to guarantee democracy is responsible for the lack of faith so many unionists have in democracy.
Whereas republicans believe that democracy rests in the people who are it’s only guarantors.
Whatever the cause there is no doubt about the fact that the two communities seem to have very distinct attutudes towards the primacy of democracy.
mmmm Hmmm
A little bit of history might be in order the.
As you say, houses are now given on a points basis by the NIHE (and always were by them). But back in the olden days, a lot, if not most, of housing was allocated by local councils.
A house was awarded to the unmarried sedcretary to a Dungannon councillor (maybe even the mayor/chairman).
That’s what led to the start of the civil rights movement and later the “troubles”. A group of people led by Austin Currie occupied the house. After they were forcibly evicted, a protest march was held at which a counter-protest appeared led by the good “doctor”.
A short time later, another march was organized in Derry/Londonderry which led to tv images being broadcast around the world of Gerry Fitt being brutally bludgeoned by the good old RUC.
The rest is history.
Ah well at least we know an acceptable boundary.
LOL
lib,
I’m sure it is genuine, but it’s also radically off topic. I’ll post an open thread so you can get to grips with that elsewhere.
ingram,
The vast majority of Irish people vote for republican parties and look forward to a peaceful reunification of this island. They supported the GFA, as do I.
Enjoy your party!
kenesei, thetheory behind the sf strategy is power based. there is no getting away from that. all political parties are after power but IMO sf more than most. Most Power hungry parties on that scale are to be avoided, the reasons i include sf in this is because of their past behaviour, thru the IRA they have been involved in murder bombings and the crushing of dissent most recently. that is not a good resume for a power hungry party. In your opinion they don’t need total power just enough to effect their changes, just enough to get in to power-like the nazi party. weren’t they elected in to? is that a respect for democracy. as for what they are doing in the south, re immigration that you mention. How many times have they said one thing and done another? these people are to be trusted? their own base trusted them and look what happened; again past behaviour is a good indicator of future behaviour.
as to the complete idiot. dito. only i could be said to be less of an idiot since i don’t need to try to flesh out an argument via personal attack. but then isn’t that what sf do when they try to silence their opponents-damage their character or say they are idiots?
I’ve made my point in a forum where all points of view are said to be welcome. whether you as a sf supporter like it or not.
yes I know that joe, in fact most housing by catholics were rented off landlords. the incident you speak of also happened to michelle gildernew’s family isn’t that so. I know my history born and reared and still here. but because that doesn’t happen anymore in the 21st century doesn’t mean all are equal, nor does it mean a UI will hbe a result of housing policy.
lib2016
I think your idea of democracy is not one shared by the majority of political activists.
Sinn Fein is driven by the leadership and not by the grass roots. The secret peace process and the regular lies which have freely flowed demonstrates the contempt of its members.
In contrast the leadership of the SDLP and other NI parties are all VULNERABLE to a leadership challenge.The DUP may face one such challenge if Paisley moves much further. That is democracy.
What price a challenge to Adams/ McGuinness ?
Ingram
Democracy as been put on hold in Northern Ireland for too long, now we have the possibility of peace and stability it is time for it to flourish. That goes for all sections of this community.
Ingram
Hmmm
I didn’t imply that fair housing allocation was the be all and end all.
I simply quoted it as one example of the changes that have occurred.
And I don’t appreciate your somewhat snide comment that you are “still there”.
I have the right to my opinions.
Joe- “What is all the nonsense about Sinn Fein’s reputation as liars? Is there anybody who thinks they are not? The biggest difference between SF and the SDLP is that the SDLP did not kill anybody.”
Mick- “’Thinking it’ is one thing, ‘proving it’ is another.”
Try this for size as regards ‘proof’:
Martin McGuinness (2nd November 1986): “I can give a commitment on behalf of the leadership that we have absolutely no intention of going to Westminster or Stormont… Our position is clear and it will never, never, never change. The war against British rule must continue until freedom is achieved.”
Gerry Adams (sitting in Stormont, 22nd May 2006): “Molaim go gceaptar Ian Paisley ina Chéad-Aire agus go gceaptar Martin McGuinness ina LeasChéad-Aire ar athbhunú an rialtais seo/ I move that Ian Paisley be returned as First Minister and Martin McGuinness be returned as Deputy First Minister on the restoration of the devolved Administration.”
ingram,
given the way the ‘secret government’ flaunts it’s power in Thames House wouldn’t it be better if you concentrated on trying to introduce democracy to Britain and let the Irish get on with it here?
As in Iraq the British influence here has not been on the side of the good guys. But then I’m a democrat and believe that people will generally get things right in the end – it was your sort who overthrew the Wilson Government and who run Britain ever since.
it wasn’t meant like that joe, i was just stating my position i didn’t mean anything untoward to yourself or your opinions. it wasn’t intentional, or meant to be snide.
err mick fealty any chance of a response re the name calling?
El matador,
to attack Sinn Fein for doing the right thing is selfdefeating. That sort of behaviour is why I switched support.
El Matador
It only proves, than Mr.McGuinness has come off the never never trip, something Mr. Paisley still has to muster.
“kenesei, thetheory behind the sf strategy is power based. there is no getting away from that.”
If they managed to pull off anything with no power or influence I’d be impressed.
“all political parties are after power but IMO sf more than most.”
So, they are after something all political parties want? Which therefore makes them EVIL.
“Most Power hungry parties on that scale are to be avoided,”
Other Parties to avoid:
Conservatives “Natural Party of Government”
Labour – ambitions to be the new version of above
US Democrats
US Republicans
DUP
UUP
But it’s ok. You can vote for the Alliance.
“the reasons i include sf in this is because of their past behaviour, thru the IRA they have been involved in murder bombings and the crushing of dissent most recently.”
The IRA is gone, their “crushing” of dissent is apparently trying to stifle debate a little so they could difficult measure through (though everything still has to go through the Ard dheis and there have been plenty of meetings anyway, but let’s not let the facts get in the road). Maybe they talked to Mr Blair a bit.
“that is not a good resume for a power hungry party. In your opinion they don’t need total power just enough to effect their changes, just enough to get in to power-like the nazi party. weren’t they elected in to?”
Godwin’s Law GODWIN’S LAW GODWIN’S BLOODY LAW
I’m not even going to bother to refute it this time.
“is that a respect for democracy.”
Repeatedly going to elections and doing what you say you will is, yes. The Nazis stopped the first bit.
“as for what they are doing in the south, re immigration that you mention. How many times have they said one thing and done another? these people are to be trusted? their own base trusted them and look what happened; again past behaviour is a good indicator of future behaviour.”
Straw man. Most of the base still trusts them, for a start, and their position on immigration in the South has been consistent to this point, and consistent in the North too.
Again your entire argument is based on nothing more than your own prejudice.
“as to the complete idiot. dito. only i could be said to be less of an idiot since i don’t need to try to flesh out an argument via personal attack.”
I’m not fleshing out the argument. I’m merely pointing out that you are making arguments without evidence or logic, and in my personal opinion people who do so are idiots.
“I’ve made my point in a forum where all points of view are said to be welcome. whether you as a sf supporter like it or not.”
You’ll find they’ll tend to go down better if there is some connection to reality, some reasoning and something to back it up.
Offers Hmmm a handshake.
lib2016-
I did not attack Sinn Féin- I merely posted two quotations from said party which illustrate the 180 degree about-turn they have staged. Of course I am glad that they staged that reversal and have done ‘the right thing’- it means we can live without provo bombings and shootings- but it clearly shows that what they were doing was the wrong thing, and they have had to break their word when they gradually realised this.
How many people, whether innocent civilians or indeed young men sent out on ‘active service’, had to die before they reached that juncture?
Betty-
Again, a good thing. But it destroys any myth that the provos had the correct analysis. Were all those deaths worth it to bring about a situation whereby Gerry Adams could sit up in a comfy chair in Stormont to nominate Ian Paisley as First Minister? I think we all know the answer.
I see, so there is no evidence of sf being connected to the IRA. No evidence of the IRA being involved in murder etc, no evidence of SF crushing dissent, and no evidence of SF ever breaking their word to their own base? Is that the gist of what you are saying?
Isn’t that past resume a bad resume for a party that needs power to unite the island? the whole theory behind their strategy is power based and in the pursuit of that power they have gotten rid of good people who have been in their own movement for more than 30 years. If they can do that in the pursuit of power wouldn’t they do anything.
go ahead and trust them, I’m sure lawerence o’neill did at one time to. I hope your loyalty is rewarded better than theirs.
Now who is an idiot?
the Sticks were right all along and got stiffed for it by SF
Lib2016.
quote”given the way the ‘secret government’ flaunts it’s power in Thames House wouldn’t it be better if you concentrated on trying to introduce democracy to Britain and let the Irish get on with it here?
We are discussing only the Northern part of United Kingdom mate. MI5 has a responsibilty to collect Intelligence upon any organisation which poses a threat to it`s NATIONAL INTEREST from within the British isles.That collection in the case of Ireland is upon a 32 county basis,. The Irish Government is well aware and conscious of this matter but is unable to protect its sovereignty.
The point you made about Democracy is a good one, when do you expect Sinn Fein to become involved fully in the democratic process?
Lib quote “given the way the ‘secret government’ flaunts it’s power in Thames House wouldn’t it be better if you concentrated on trying to introduce democracy to Britain and let the Irish get on with it here?
Is this the same agency your political representitives Adams/McGuinness negotiated with over the last thirty years and in particular the cessation of hostilities and then finally the terms for the full decommissioning of all IRA arms?.
Is the same angency that is building a wonderful new building in East Belfast and is still responsible for the collection of Intelligence upon Republicans mate? In clear English mate the unit that is responsible for the co ordination and running of the legions of touts within Sinn Fein and the broader Republican movement.
The point is mate the Irish have never been allowed to get on with it and that situation will not change because the GFA cemented the constitutional question and the role of the lead agencies upon the British Isles. Just get used to it Lad. LOL
Ingram
hmmm and ken,
I’ve clipped most of that heated exchange in full. As a result some of the exchange may not make sense.
El Matador
“Were all those deaths worth it to bring about a situation whereby Gerry Adams could sit up in a comfy chair in Stormont to nominate Ian Paisley as First Minister?”
Is there something I shouldn’t be eating you had?
betty matador has asked a relevant enough question there, or would you rather no body mentioned the war?
thankyou admin. hmmm offers ken a handshake.
Betty-
Huh?
Let me put it another way- a lot of people were killed by the PIRA. A lot of young men were killed on operations on behalf of the PIRA. Now, can you you tell me with a straight face that the deaths of those people were worth it for Sinn Féin to take their place at Stormont and to be nominating Ian Paisley? Did those volunteers die fighting for Sinn Féin to get some nice offices, complete with photocopiers, fax machines and internet connections in the House on the Hill? I think not. Which leads to the question: what was the point?
Don’t get me wrong- I’m glad SF has seen sense. I believe that dissidents are clinging to a failed ideology. However, I can’t but feel that it is tragically late for them to have realised the futility of their armed campaign, and that a great many people were wrongly led to believe in the false legitimacy of provo violence.
It is an illogical question. What happend over 35 years ago started not out as an attempt to provide furniture for someone to asked questions from and loose the lives of so many on the way.
“I see, so there is no evidence of sf being connected to the IRA.”
Yes, yes, SF-IRA, a British Prime minister said they were linked, great. Lots of reasons why people vote SF pointless argument, IRA basically gone.
“No evidence of the IRA being involved in murder etc,”
The IRA is not SF. The whole point of separating political and military wings. The IRA is also stood down.
“no evidence of SF crushing dissent,”
See above.
“and no evidence of SF ever breaking their word to their own base?”
No. That is why they became the largest Nationalist Party here and will remain so. They led people in the direction they wanted them to go. few people’s opinions don’t change over 20 years in response to new circumstance, so I’ve always found El mat’s tactic a futile exercise, be it for SF, Labour, conservative or anyone else.
“go ahead and trust them, I’m sure lawerence o’neill did at one time to. I hope your loyalty is rewarded better than theirs.
Now who is an idiot?”
I think you are confused. My loyalty to SF lasts as long as I’m happy with the job they are doing. I think they’ve got the general direction right for now. The second I think they don’t, my vote will go elsewhere.
I just dislike general ignorance.
Ingram
I hope you are now clear about the meaning of Britain’s border when used by a republican. We are supposed to be your specialist subject yet you don’t even understand our terminology.
There is no point in responding to my political points with allegations about individuals. I don’t believe a word you say about any of that. I have no doubt that your sole interest is to damage the peace process and you will say anything to further that objective.
Nor is there the slightest point in asking me what the IRA said or thought at any point in time. Not my concern.
El Matador.
We are making progress. Henry 94 as admitted the futility of the armed campaign dates back to about the 1985 period. Pat McLarnon is busy but I am certain he is going to come back with an exact date when realised the armed campaign was misguided.
I am sure Betty Boo will not want to avoid the core issues when debating upon this board after a moments reflection upon her poor last post. LOL
Ingram
Betty-
“It is an illogical question. What happend over 35 years ago started not out as an attempt to provide furniture for someone to asked questions from and loose the lives of so many on the way.”
It is not illogical. What was the point of the campaign ultimately? Did people need to die?
so there is no evidence of sf breaking their word to their own base. ok.
I just dislike general ignorance.
Then don’t participate in it. Or do you have your eyes wide shut.
Henry 94.
Oh henry I am very clear what you have said.
The futility of the armed conflict dated back to the 1985 period and that you today recognise the border between North and South to be demarkation point between Eire and Britain.
I accept you dont like the border but the fact is both you and your party recognise it and are working towards the day it is removed?
Now please explain the difference between your position today regarding the border ie partition and the SDLP?
Ingram
El Matador
Let me answer you with a response I got from a former British soldier to Bloody Sunday: “If I would have lived in the Bogside that day, I would have joined the IRA.”
Too much violence has been inflicted since. I don’t know, how I would have reacted, if I would have lived here. But I know, it takes a long time to approach a new solution, particular if you come from the recieving end.
And your question was a cheap shot.
where does Kensei live if he or she thinks SF don’t break their word? They lied from beginning to end. It is heartening to see that our own people are starting to challenge them on it. What is the biggest criticism levelled at meetings across the north? Lies. Ask those who have jacked in recently what annoyed them the most. Lies. El Mat is spot on – a waste of life. No wonder Paddy Fox is flying out of the stalls like a stallion with chilli up his bum. What he and his family went through, parents murdered, time served, relatives blasted, then to come here and listen to the ceasefire soldiers, No Missions Mark and Pat the Poodle. People who only joined the movement as a career choice.
Why did people had to die at the very beginning of it? It wasn’t necessary either and a less deadly solution would have sufficed.
Betty Boo.
Can I ask you this?
At what juncture in time did you think the armed conflict was futile?
Adams was in secret talks back in the mid 80s Henry 94 agrees the armed conflict was was futile also back then.
At what point did you think the war was lost and the IRA would surrender and decommission.And Sinn Fein would advocate joining the RUC/PSNI structures in a similar way to the SDLP?
I am interested in your experience.
Thank You
Ingram
Ingram,
I believe an alternative to the armed struggle became possible, only possible, around about the time of the Baltic Exchange bomb attack, April 1992 I believe.
The whingefest from British politicos was a realisation that for all the stiff upper lip the soft underbelly betrayed you people. It accelerated the rush by the Britsh to find a seat at the negotiating table.
All those hundreds od squaddies, RUC member and UDR/Loyalist murderers who went to their graves to prove this place was as British as Finchley or to protect the vanity of some other lunatic PM or SoS. Not to mention all those who put their own guns in their mouths.
Sad and tragic and what a waste but unfortunately only the latest in a long line of British adventure overseas. I hope you think it was worth it.
Betty-
“Let me answer you with a response I got from a former British soldier to Bloody Sunday: “If I would have lived in the Bogside that day, I would have joined the IRA.â€
I’m not interested in what a British soldier said. Nor am I interested in the individual reasons people had for joining the PIRA. Again, let me ask- what was the point of the armed campaign and what did it achieve?
And by the way, don’t try and pass off the idea that joining the provos was somehow forced upon people by the likes of BS- no doubt that is why many people joined, but the vast, vast majority didn’t, including many who had been touched by violence. Violence begets violence, as history has proven…
“And your question was a cheap shot.”
Was it? What is cheap about asking why innocent civilians died? What is cheap about why young men ended up blowing themselves up in the pursuance of the provos campaign? As I said, all it ultimately achieved was a luxurious holiday home for Gerry and a nice wee office for Martin.
Your refusal to answer my question is duly noted.
El Mat,
‘Your refusal to answer my question is duly noted.’
It is a bit rich of you to duly note anything given your own propensity to go missing when the hard questions are asked. You failure to answer why the SDLP sat on their hands on the Policing Board and let themselves be lied to while the details of hundreds of Catholics were handed to the UDA by the RIR in April 2004 was duly noted as well.
‘As I said, all it ultimately achieved was a luxurious holiday home for Gerry and a nice wee office for Martin.’
Evidence that no matter what answer was given you mind was already closed. Not surprising there, from the party of knighthoods, MBEs and baubles.
Pat-
Pass me evidence and I will respond.
“Evidence that no matter what answer was given you mind was already closed. Not surprising there, from the party of knighthoods, MBEs and baubles.”
Ah, another star turn by The Whataboutery Supremo- if you can’t answer ‘em, change the subject, eh?
I don’t think the leadership of the SDLP has any knighthoods or MBEs, and even if they did, I don’t believe that people would have died for them to get to the position whereby they could accpet such gongs. Can the same be said the SF leadership’s pursuit of the riches of power?
Pat,
Ok, You obviously think the IRA had a strong hand to carry to the negotiations? why then did they agree to capitulise and decommision its arms and stand down without the Loyalists being made to do so also. After all was the IRA not charged with protecting its own community from the attacks of Loyalism? what made the IRA trust Loyalism and to back the British security forces in their role to defend them?
What was the SEISMIC shift of the BRITISH position for Republicanism and Pat McClarnon to trust them ?
Quote”Sad and tragic and what a waste but unfortunately only the latest in a long line of British adventure overseas. I hope you think it was worth it”
Pat, You failed to report that the British adventure you refer to IN Ireland is ongoing and that you and Sinn Fein have taken the decision that if you cannot BEAT them, then JOIN THEM. LOL
Martin Ingram.
PS. Football is on tonight so Sinn Fein bashing duties will be resumed tomorrow.Good night Pat and Henry a very interesting day. Thank You.
‘from the party of knighthoods, MBEs and baubles’
you will laugh at that el mat from the party of Donaldsons, Scappaticcis, Leonards etc etc
“where does Kensei live if he or she thinks SF don’t break their word? They lied from beginning to end.”
About what? They changed their position and their strategy. They were not the first party to do that in the history of the world. They moved very slowly and they got people onboard with them and they received the support at the ballot box.
It’s only now, with some of the really tough decisions, they are having some troube. And it remain to be seen how much trouble that is.