“This may have been your Ulster Protestant thinking. Apart from anything else being from the Paisley wing of Protestantism would put you in a minority, (no offence to Free Presbyterians) and indeed bing a Free P does not necessarily translate to being a Paisleyite politically. ”

All well & good Bertie but the Free P had a thing against rock music & that never sat well with me, never mind chaining the kids swings on a Sunday. Seeing the buck-ejits protest against Billy Graham, that was the straw that broke the camels back.
So no I was never in the Free P or in the DUP (Don’t Underestimate Paisley) but was like a lot of ulstermen influenced by events in N.I. & by their politics.

“The enemy are not those who arn’t ulster protestants but the idea and acceptance of the idea that some have, of whatever religion or politics, that their politics justifies murder.”

Heres the rub Bertie. I totally agree. In fact I would go one step further in saying because I have hated my enemies -republicans/nationalists/catholics with a passion during my life I too am guilty of murder before God. OK, not before a court in any land. But as a follower of Christ, completely guilty in His court. It is his standard that I want to live by. That hatred was not in me when I was born. I learned to hate. Listening to community & family events. Singing the tribal songs & learning “my culture’. The religious/nationalist dimension of N.I protestantism gave it all a form of legitimacy as we are reared in dear old ulster. Yes in many respects the hatred & seeking revenge was a reaction to evil carried out by IRA/INLA. It seems to me that both communities have a real hard time understanding the others sense of loss & genuine hurts. I have friends & family to this day that deny the catholic population were in any way discriminated against; civil rights was a republican plot & are still proud of Burntollet Bridge. Neither community has a pure heart, clean hands or an unblemished history. Instead of pointing at the other side we need to rexamine ourselves & our communities, deal honestly with the past & reconcile with the other community. For goodness sake we share the same wee piece of earth & no one else is going to do it for us.

david

I am glad that you have found something that works for you. However

“Cementing it all together was this Ulster protestant (truly orange nationalist) thinking/identity that was not unlike the ancient Israelites or some of Americas first settlers – we were almost a chosen people… so fighting the enemy was almost a God given responsibility. “For God & for Ulster” it was & always would be ”

This may have been your Ulster Protestant thinking. Apart from anything else being from the Paisley wing of Protestantism would put you in a minority, (no offence to Free Presbyterians) and indeed bing a Free P does not necessarily translate to being a Paisleyite politically. The enemy are not those who arn’t ulster protestants but the idea and acceptance of the idea that some have, of whatever religion or politics, that their politics justifies murder.

25 years ago Ian Paisley was my hero as a young protestant teenager. I had his election poster on my wall & his signature (just a plain “IP”) in my bible. I loved standing listening to his fiery speeches & knew he was the only man to stand up for us in the west of Ulster.

Travelling to a govt school in a nationalist district was always fun & seeing your classmates beaten to a pulp not uncommon. The murders of a number of my friends fathers (businessmen, police & UDR) left a legacy of hatred that was very hard for me to get free from.
We were & are a besieged community. Besieged in our thinking as well as in our neighbourhoods.

Cementing it all together was this Ulster protestant (truly orange nationalist) thinking/identity that was not unlike the ancient Israelites or some of Americas first settlers – we were almost a chosen people… so fighting the enemy was almost a God given responsibility. “For God & for Ulster” it was & always would be

My heart breaks when I read a story like this & see the waste of lives that the history of Ireland & N.Ireland in particular is. The potent mix of politics with religion & national identity has been a poison we have drunk from for a couple of generations. It has blinded us to the genuine plight of our neighbours in both communities. Their real hurts, wounds & feelings. We have a superficial, pharisaical religion far removed from the roots of our faith.

Thankfully God rescued me from this & I was on a journey of faith that took years. I had one question more than any other to answer: Which King would I serve? I chose Jesus & left Billy to his followers. Life hasn’t been the same since.

May God grant these men the true freedom of the cross.

David

BTW some of us don´t have to go into an office to work, nerd.

Perhaps before you post again you shouldn´t mis quote and then make demands of people, nerd.

BTW 2.02am GMT my last post, what makes you think I´m in the same time zone as you nerd, although you are most probably still in the last century.

Bye nerd.

I asked a question of you which you brazenly tried to lie you way out of because you were wrong and foolishly wrong, when I did you the service of pointing out your mistakes in order that you could avoid further embarrassment on a public forum you became personally insulting and have only highlighted that your crassness is based on internationalism as it obviously knows no bounds.

You have insinuated that my original post was incorrect which it wasn’t and then in trying to reinforce you position or as an attempt to extricate yourself from a lost position employed your finger before engaging your brain and completely demolished your own arguement.

On being reminded of the fact that if debating suicide was a university degree you would have achieved a first if not graduating with honours, you decided to switch tack and hurl full blooded insults instead, you have called me a troll, a cretin, a multi poster, a nerd, and also of being under the influence of drugs.
All this for pointing out an error either by mistake or design by yourself, it’s at this point I have come to appreciate the good fortune that the closest I will ever come to you is through a computer moniter and a keyboard.

Just for the record I read Slugger virtually everyday but have posted only once, that was on the tradgic murder of Robert McCartney and was posted from a friends house who is a very regular poster on SluggerO’Toole, I see by your last post timed at after 2am in the morning that it is clear that you are not gainfully employed… tell me Doctor Who do you think the childish outbursts could be holding you back in life, the inability to stand tall like a man, or just the refusal to be an honest and decent human being.

Thank you and good day…
Eamon O’Niell

If you behave like a nerd, I reserve the right to call you one.

Your post was a classic example of trolling and I´m sure your IP address can be atributed to many other non de plume.

Poor Doctor Who was so disgusted because of someones refusal to retract but is not in anyway shape or form embarrassed by his own refusal to answer, as seen by his last post.

“HippY Oýawn

Stay off the drugs, nerd.
Posted by Doctor Who on Dec 12, 2006 @ 11:53 PM”

Such an itelligent remark.

Stay off the drugs, nerd.

“1. Why did the newspaper not publish the full quotes.”
(so you now admit that there were full quotes)

2. Why did Chris summarise already partial quotes.”
(so you now confirm the above statement was not a misprint by reiteraiting the quotes were not in full)

Which means that you must have been privvy to the original e-mails in their entirety and you really now have the added problem of explaining your post below which you posted at 5.47pm.

“The very fact that they are not being discussed outside Slugger O´toole says to me that there is no substance in the report.”

WHAT NO SUBSTANCE IN E-MAILS WHICH YOU HAVE READ PERSONALLY

The Orange Order seem to commemorate both.

Killy William and the Shankill butchers are commemorated by the orange order at the same marches every year.

They don’t seem to see the contradiction of celebrating the battle of the Boyne alongside the sectarian mass murderers of modern day unionism.

If you reserve the right to point out my typos, well then I reserve the right to point out you are no more than a foolish person.

Denying the IRA where behind the Northern Bank robbery makes you look very foolish.

Hippy O´crite.

1. Why did the newspaper not publish the full quotes.

2. Why did Chris summarise already partial quotes.

3. What makes you think the DUP can suppress the national media. LOL LOL.

DC has clarified his comments and accepted his error on this forum and privately (See his 2:04pm comment).

DC

My opinion about the Northern Bank is based upon:
1. The public comments of members at various levels of the two police forces investigating the robbery, the PSNI and the Garda.
2. The information the police officers based their comments upon has been the subject to independent scrutiny by the IMC, and it concurs with their respective conclusions.

Incidentally:
1. I didn’t pluck it from the ether and decide immediately after the robbery that it was the Provos.
2. I did not need to engage in pseudo-psychology of the people involved.
3. I did not base it on the assumption “Look at Gerry Adams et als track record, it must have been them”.
4. I am open to the possibility my opinion is wrong.

The blinkers have been demonstrated by yourself by insisting that only one interpretation is possible of the email excerpts while some of us are open-minded.

I suspect the word you were groping for is “retract.”

Fair_Deal: “July 4th is celebrated with fireworks, if a racist uses that event to spell out in fireworks “lynching is great” that doesn’t mean the celebration of 4th july or the use of fireworks becomes illegitimate. ”

No, but it would bring into question the celebrations organizers and those who orchastrated the fireworks, would it not? Likewise, the inclusion of Loyalist symbolism and activities into a Unionist event should call into question those who organized and orchastrated the event.

fair_deal: “As for your characterisation of my comments regarding republicans I’ll treat it with the scepticism it deserves. ”

Did you not, on April 10, 2006, state that the IRA robbed the Great Northern Bank? What, pray tell, was your evidence? If you have full and conclusive evidence,, why have you not shared it with the authorities? Or, in the absence of actualy evidence, are you not simply going with the most convential interpretation of the few facts in hand?

In short, Fair_Deal, you seem to be going to far greater lengths to rationalize Junior and the Pastor — a much smaller stake, given Junior’s tendency to shoot himself in the foot — than in the consideration of an event that nearly derailed the Peace Process.

I don’t begrudge you your ideological blinders, FD… just don’t expect them to be treated as sacred.

aq change in activity does not mean a change in mindset where it really matters, i.e. that terrorism is immoral

“For your analogy to be accurate the ex-wife has to denounce her state of mind when she got married, express regret that the marriage took place and to promise never to marry again. ”

no because it doesn’t apply being a ife or not is not about the sort of person you are. You ould still be the marrying kind.

Huntly is not an ex murderer.

“Again the quotes in Chris Donelley´s blog are partial and designed to drum up nationalist fervour. The very fact that they are not being discussed outside Slugger O´toole says to me that there is no substance in the report”

No the quotes are from a reputable paper who are in possession of the full e-mails which the DUP are aware of, and the same DUP have not denied either in part or in full the existance of said e-mails and by your own attempted dismissal of documented fact have made yourself look extremley foolish at best, or worse politically blinkered due to being agenda driven.

“the very fact that they are not being discussed outside Sluggerotoole says to intelligent people that the DUP have pulled a lot of strings with the right puppets and that apart from the reporter that broke the story no one else in the local media really have any DUP sources worth a damn to probe.

Everything alright at home. It sounds as if you are preoccupied with “weemen” issues.

“However, innuendo and “everybody knows” has been sufficient to hang, metaphorically speaking, Republicans, full evidence be damned.”

Mopery and whataboutery in it´s dullest form.

“John Hume’s clear aim when he negotiated with Gerry Adams was to get the IRA to stop the violence and disarm.”

That might well be, however Gerry Adams always denied that the talks with Hume where for that purpose. Instead Adams claimed that they where to seek common ground on election pacts etc.

This did help fuel Unionist angst at the time as the IRA where still actively involved in sectarian murder.

Do you not think it is a bit rich for republicans to now seek the moral high ground regarding dealings with terrorists. While I view the whole process as a necessary evil, it is worth remembering that the IRA are still engaged in criminal activity. Is it convenient for Nationalists to forget this when they vote for Sinn Fein, making them the largest Nationalist party. Does it make the one time SDLP voters sleep better, convincing themseves they´ve voted for democrats.

Linking the DUP to Loyalist paramilitaries is no feet in itself. At one time every Political institution has been infiltrated with paramilitaries at one point. Ira members have been members of the British Army, but of course that is infiltration and not collusion.

Again the quotes in Chris Donelley´s blog are partial and designed to drum up nationalist fervour. The very fact that they are not being discussed outside Slugger O´toole says to me that there is no substance in the report.

Fair Deal

I am disgusted by Dread Cthulhu remarks and his refusal to detract. Often he reminds me of ball not man. Hypocrite.