Question Time comes to Belfast again. Let’s hope the panel can talk about something other than just Northern Ireland. They are: Peter Hain, Lord Trimble, Mark Durkan, Martin McGuinness and Jeffrey Donaldson. Our Secretary of State has some work to do to push his profile a bit higher in the race for the DPM’s job.
As part of NICVA’s series of masterclasses from its Centre for Economic Empowerment project, there was a morning seminar on the topic of the “creative class” (as popularised by Richard Florida) and its applicability to Northern Ireland. The agenda was to: Explain Richard Florida’s idea of the “creative class” and the link between economic outcomes [...] read our review »
Loos set to be a good programme with the Donaldson-Trimble and Durkan-McGuinness rivalries of particular note.
a good panel,
Trimble deserves this moment. Now that he’s been proved right.
Excellent panel. The intra-tribal arguments should be fun!
Short odds on Trimble being slightly smug, with a “told you so Jeffrey” vibe.
Question time has been delayed twice this year from coming to norn iron.
First in the spring, when the assembly was reconvened as a shadow assembly we were promised a programme.
Secondly, it was due to be in Belfast on the thursday when the parties met in St.Andrews.
One can only assume Dimbleby couldn’t get certain “players” on board.
Now everyone wants to talk.
Sign of the times?
It is justifiably time for Trimble to eviscerate Donaldson for his sheer hypocrisy in supporting the StAA and not the GFA.
I hope he is up to the job, as devious, untrustworthy, unprinclipled politicians need to be exposed on a national stage.
FD
“as devious, untrustworthy, unprinclipled politicians need to be exposed on a national stage.”
Indeed. In that vein I look forward to JD taking Trimble apart.
you guys want to see NI parties fighting among themselves to support the english view of the unreasonable irish. Shame on you!!
why not hold Hain to account for
having his civil servants lie to courts
his appointments to quangos
refusing to deal with collusion and falling asleep when one father tries to get him to do something
his membership of a cabinet headed by a lying murdering war criminal
his support for the war in Iraq
the government’s demand that Syria’s intelligence services be investigated for supporting death squads in Labanon—(ahem!!)
and lots more
Percival
There are none so blind as those who will not see…………….
Dry your eyes Trimble cry-baby!
heck, having his civil servants lie to the courts.
according to insight last week, one person noted that perhaps the end justified the means, when the question was put,if the secretary of state can break the law, then what about the rest of us. They also demeaned or tried to demean the lady who brought the case, Ian Paisley Jnr, claiming this lady (who was on benefits) was his description.
At the end of the day, Hain broke the law. End of story. But what of it, if you make the laws you can break them I suppose. Doesn’t the same double standards apply to Sinn Fein, aren’t they doing deals with ‘a lying murdering war criminal’, didn’t they even go and meet the other lying war criminal in hillsborough calstle?
This is why I don;’t understand some of your posts. You are against all this ie war in iraq yet you support vigorously sinn fein, who have yet to refuse to do business with blair/bush because of their involvement in iraq.
why hold Hain to account and not Sinn Fein?
Fair point Heck. I am guessing that Hain will come under sustained pressure, especially from Durkan and Trimble.
Both Trimble and Donaldson supported the Iraqi war, didn’t they?
It would however strike any viewer – English or otherwise – as strange if the SDLP and the Trimbleite UUP didn’t point out the rank hypocrisy of Donaldson and McGuinness. The idea that NI politicians should tone down their discussion for a British audience would be counter-productive, as well as dishonest.
ma@hotmail.com
hold SF to account as well if you like, but I hope it does’nt become the natives fighting among themselves (either between or within secterian camps) and a smug colonial overlord sitting there thinking his shit doesn’t stink.
That’s what the Brits think of us–we a just a bunch of white wogs who need some adult supervision. Give me the DUP over hain anytime!
Heck,
No dear, “white wogs”…
I detest this offensive approach that judges NI as a straightforward colonial issue. Where is your respect for those on this island who have a British-Irish identity? Are they colonialists too?
Whilst we can agree on many criticisms of Hain/New Labour, I would argue that if it wasn’t for the “adult supervision” we have recieved from Britain we would be in a far greater mess.
I agree with whoever said that, the next memorial that needs to be built is for “The Unknown British Taxpayer”, for services rendered beyond the call of duty.
awww heck, that attitude went out when the english thought the irish descended from apes. (roll eyes). I don’t think they’ll sit there like overlords, considering they have done the show here before. Generalising, isn’t it like anne robinson saying stuff about the yanks. yOur list abouve, all that stuff could be pointed or thrown at sdlp/sf/dup/uup they all do business with the lying war criminal, even bertie ahern, and as for the irish well they aren’t angels either.
Your list could be applied to any politician on these islands, and your assumptions about the english perhaps a little ‘racist’?
By all means be all of the above but at least be consistent.
should say anne robinson saying stuff about the welsh. me heads away the day.
Seems like a good panel indeed – shame though that it’s all male…Where are the women of, for and about Ulster?
Chauncey
heck is entirely correct
no-one remember Dimbleby’s appallingly paternalistic attitude to the row between Durkan and McGuinness last time?
there should be a pact between MMcG, MD, JD and DT (or, realistically, at least between Mark and Martin) to nail Hain on every aspect of his failures here, in the UK and further afield
How can you guys not be offended when someone like Hain comes and lectures the Micks about “opposition to violence†of “support for the rule of law�
At least someone like Michael Stone is up front about what he is and does not have the offensive patronizing attitude of our pro consul.
When I try to point out his hyprocisy on this site from time to time I get accused of “whatabouteryâ€. In the case of Hain whataboutery is a reasonable response.
“Question time has been delayed twice this year from coming to norn iron.
First in the spring, when the assembly was reconvened as a shadow assembly we were promised a programme.
Secondly, it was due to be in Belfast on the thursday when the parties met in St.Andrews.
One can only assume Dimbleby couldn’t get certain “players†on board.
Now everyone wants to talk.
Sign of the times?”
I think you’ll find it’s more likely to be a reflection of the relative unimportance of NI here in Britain.
The last time it was due to be held in Belfast (the day before the Friday 13th deadline at St Andrews), the chief of the British Army gave an interview to the Daily Mail, stating that Iraq is a mess and we’re making it worse (hardly big news), and QT was moved to London instead.
Put the five of them on with Podge & Rodge instead, whoever survives the longest becomes First Minister.
Put the five of them on with Podge & Rodge instead, whoever survives the longest becomes First Minister.
LOL… That would be CLASS…
Better explain podge and rodge for the NON RTE folk though
Padraig Judas O’Lepracy and Rodraig Spartacus O’Lepracy
Please let there be some questions and discussion addressing wider issues than Northern Ireland. These programmes tend to make us look seriously insular.
And your point is Ziz?
That we’re not insular.
You have to be joking
Middle classxxxx
Nice thought, but it will not happen, just you watch how obnoxious Mark Durkan will be towards Sinn Fein, this is their strategy now. Vote for us as we will settle for less.
JD haven’t you ‘got’ it yet? SF have stolen the constitutional nationalist clothes off the backs of the SDLP and thrown away all their old republican outfits…Isn’t Durkan within his rights to point this out, hardly obnoxious pointing out the obvious.
There’s a certain irony that ‘Let’s Talk’ often has more content that isn’t just about NI, whereas when ‘Question Time’ is from here, it invariably gets bogged-down in local stuff.
Perhaps if they were to kick-off with a UK-wide or international issue (eg. the apparent poisoning, Grade going back to ITV, etc), then the usual agenda wouldn’t be set.
As for the panel, the DUP do like to expose Jeffrey to ths sort of thing. Was that part of the deal? He still doesn’t come across as pure DUP anyway.
No. My point is that it makes me cringe when we let others see that we are.
Just finished watching the show Durkan streets ahead if my Shinner neighbour round for a beer declared a points victory for the Big Man
Typo
Just finished watching the show Durkan streets ahead EVEN my Shinner neighbour round for a beer declared a points victory for the Big Man
Agree – Durkan trounced McGuinness.
NV-
Indeed. Good performance. Good to see the SDLP approach continuing to grow in confidence and clarity. It’s one thing knowing you’re right- it’s another thing making sure that voters know it also. MD’s performance tonight will certainly assist in the latter.
Trimble also put in a good showing. Donaldson just pumped out the usual mantras. McGuinness looked unsure and hesitant- yer woman from West Belfast was interesting!
Well, I thought it was dull as ditchwater, from the panel anyway. Gave up before the end. The only think that could possible ruin a political TV anorak’s year more would be if BBC NI did another Christmas ‘Have I got news for you’ local-stylee. I think it has something to do with the audience (or lack thereof).
Not as bad as I feared, although there was the constant drawing of parallels with every funking thing and Northern Ireland. In a discussion about a spy being poisoned “that’s just like the Northern Ireland water rates”!!! FFS!
Trimble and Durkan were good. McGuinness was dreadful and Donaldson just trotted out what he had prepared with little or no ability to argue rationally. Rights for gays = attack on religion?! Care to explain it to us rather than just repeating it?
I’m going to write up some brief thoughts on this later, but I think Martin did better than you are giving him credit for, at least on the first question about Russia.
Even so, both Trimble and Durkan had good practical points to make about what might be done to address the apparent high degree of lawlessness of Russia. Not least through the EU.
Ziz-
You are of course correct- one would almost think that the whole world revolved around NI going by what some of the audience said. The gay equality discussion was interesting, and I think Hain (a veteran of the SA anti-apartheid movement) made some good points about the fact that discrimination is discrimination, regardless of the manner in which it manifests itself.
Of course Donaldson brought in the usual claptrap about ‘religion’, suitably backed-up by a large section of the audience who had clearly been fiendishly working away behind the scenes to secure tickets for the show with a view to infiltrating each row of the audience. The sad thing is that their views are reflected by the biggest party here.
“Just finished watching the show Durkan streets ahead EVEN my Shinner neighbour round for a beer declared a points victory for the Big Man”
I don’t agree. Martin did well, made some decent points, came across as reasonable and dealt with some inevitable hostility in the crowd. My only disappointment was him not nailing Durkan when he started on devolution of justice powers – if the SDLP hadn’t have jumped too soon and both Nationalist parties were resolute for it, then things would be much easier.
In fairness to Durkan, he was alright. It was more like a score draw, and who “won” probably depends on your politics.
Durkan was very good. I didn’t think martin did so well-dimbelby make him look foolish when he said to him…’yes I know thats what you said but what about the question’, something like that. It was a funny moment, but martin never regained from it. Felt sorry for trimble, who was obviously bursting to get laid in to the DUP who are now a pro agreement party, but the opportunity didn’t seem to arise-or not enough to satisfy trimble.
Gonzo, your point on participation. Isn’t it up to dimbelby who participates and for how long? He moves the show along, he’s in the driving seat, so participation or lack there off is down to him.
“Even so, both Trimble and Durkan had good practical points to make about what might be done to address the apparent high degree of lawlessness of Russia. Not least through the EU.”
I didn’t think Russia was dealt with particularly well by anyone.
Firstly we had McGuinness expressing sympathy with the Chechens. As the Chechen cause is a nasty little ethnic nationalist struggle characterised by terrorism and with an interest in preserving structures of organised crime that is hardly surprising.
The general attitude showed little understanding of where Russians may be coming from. Firstly the assumption was made that the Putin regime were behind the murky goings on. Secondly there is the arrogant supposition that Russia must submit to Western norms (and the subtext is hegemony) in order to be successful or to play a full role in international affairs. The expansion of the EU is a threat to Russia. Its traditional sphere of influence is being substantially curtailed and this has little of the liberal democratic altruism that is attributed to it. It is an attempt to advance the free market American dominated empire into new territory.
The West wants Russia’s oil, but also to dictate to it and advance right to its doorstep. They want to freely tinker in Russian domestic affairs through funding NGOs and when Putin acts it is painted as an affront to democracy.
If there is a lack of law in Russia it is due to the unseemly haste with which the west dispensed with Gorbachev and the utter mess Yeltsin created. Putin has done a remarkable job and it doesn’t seem to occur to anyone in the west that perhaps it is his system of “directed democracy” that has allowed him to so effectively rule such a huge, disparate country. If Putin is hunting down Berezovsky and his entourage, Gaider etc, he is certainly aiming for the correct people. They uncrupuously facilitated the robbery of the Russian people.
I liked Durkan’s quip about the Government acting as Lou to the DUP’s Andy!
Token Dissent
“I detest this offensive approach that judges NI as a straightforward colonial issue.”
Why? How does our situation differ from a colonial one?
“Where is your respect for those on this island who have a British-Irish identity?”
Why do you think it is disrespectful to observe that NI is, in every meaningful sense, a colony? Why should questions of respect be incumbent on colluding in the fantasy that it is anything other than a colony?
“Are they colonialists too?”
Why wouldn’t they be? Okay, I’ll ask another way: let’s say for the sake of argument that our pro-Union population is NOT a colonial community. What changes would they have to make in order to become one?
Why would a unionist object anyway to being spoken of as a colonial? Gibraltarians don’t. Falkland Islanders don’t. Pitcairners don’t.
“Whilst we can agree on many criticisms of Hain/New Labour, I would argue that if it wasn’t for the “adult supervision†we have recieved from Britain we would be in a far greater mess.”
Textbook colonial mindset.
All right – you’ll deny being a colonial. Okay. Now, say you WERE a colonial – how would you be different?
“I didn’t think martin did so well-dimbelby make him look foolish when he said to him…’yes I know thats what you said but what about the question’, something like that. It was a funny moment, but martin never regained from it.”
Dimbelby tells people to stick to the point all the time, usually with less humour so I didn’t see it as big deal. And after he was the only to challenge the prevailing idea that the British Army is some sort of paragon of virtue – and that includes Durkan
Russia is worrying but the West has essentially sowed the whirlwind here – at the break down of the Soviet Union the West took advantage as
‘and he was the only one to challenge the idea that the british army was a paragon of virtue’
As I remember it, there was a man in the audience who challenged it better. Martin only said what was in the papers, the man challenged it from the community point of view,which came accross much better, if my memory serves me right.
‘the west has essentially sowed the whirlwind here’,
I don’t see it that way. Putin, is ex KGB and instead of the KGB/FSB being an arm of the state, it is now effectively the state. State killings need to be curbed by russia-if that is what the litvensko death is.
Bah, hit that by accident –
….by asset stripping and helping created the conditions with the oligrachs and the rest that led to the vacuum Putin is filling.
“As I remember it, there was a man in the audience who challenged it better. Martin only said what was in the papers, the man challenged it from the community point of view,which came accross much better, if my memory serves me right.”
Er, Martin backed it up with evidence? That’s your complaint?
Actually MM didn’t make it as far as DImbleby’s put down before losing all his credibility. He got as far as a stumbling attempt to get his broad Derry tongue around Litvenenko.
No. that is not my complaint, I am not complaining. I am pointing out that you made an error when you say martin was the only one to challenge the idea that the brit army is a paragon of virtue. He wasn’t the only one, the man in the audience did it too. and because of the community perspective of this man, it came accross better IMPOV. thats all.
Has Donaldson Rulled himself out of office as a minister with his view on goods and services could he take the pledge of office for tourism given the line asserted both in the commons and on air.
“Now, say you WERE a colonial – how would you be different?”
We wouldn’t get to elect MPs to Westminster.