Paisley: “if we can have obedience to the law, then let’s do it…”
This interview of Ian Paisley by Tommie Gorman is well worth listening to: “There are two or three people who had second thoughts about the direction we are going. But I think that has been cleared up now. We are singing from the same hymn sheet at the moment. You see, in the Democratic Unionist Party, it is a coalition of many people with various views. They have voiced their views and they have realised their views are not ignored”.
Tags: Negotiations
Ian Paisley is doing a good job he has got Sinn Fein IRA on a hook on Policing.
I agree; Ian Paisley is doing a good job here. The messages are pretty consistent. It does no harm that he admits that he is leading people who have different views.
“Ian Paisley is doing a good job he has got Sinn Fein IRA on a hook on Policing.”
How do you figure that? SF will sign up to an accountable police service once an acceptable date for devolution of P and J powers is agreed. No hook here. They have firm support for that position within the nationalist electorate. If the DUP don’t like it, then they’ll just have to force Hain’s hand to come up with Plan B (if he doesn’t already have it).
Ulick
Hain doesn’t have it….thats the point.
Ulick,
SF aren’t exactly cruising on a wave of support from their own community.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1128/morningireland.html
Then in that case, as you were (less the salaries, RPA, academic selection, rates, water rates, more north-south involvement) and let the Shinners get back to their real business of the election south of the border.
Using above link and scroll down to piece debate on policing in West Belfast.
Listen to half way through the audio clip.
Paul, that link refers to opposition to them signing up to policing. If there is no agreement, then they won’t be doing that, so there’s no problem as yet, besides opposition to it is quite limited. If SF get their way on accountability and P and J they will have enough room to talk down any serious opposition.
The mistake the DUPers are making here is actually believing that SF or their supporters actually give two figs about a devolved Assembly in Stormont.
Bear in mind Ulick Sinn Fein & their supporters are a minority. Its very possible everyone else does want to get a devolved Assembly.
So why give two figs about SF?
The DUP have done everything in their power for the last ten years to prevent a devolved assembly getting up and running. Every single excuse has been used to stop power-sharing.
I would love to see the Assembly shut down, Paisley consigned to spending the rest of his life with no more prominence than a platform outside City Hall once every two or three months, shouting religious instruction at innocent passers by. In the mean time SF can get to business in the south, and north-south plans progress without the hindrance of trying to keep big Ian and his ego happy.
Also, according to the Irish News that meeting was attended by 200 people who came from all over the six counties, most of them probably already dissidents. I attended an event in a small rural part of County Armagh on Saturday afternoon attended by 150 people and addressed by a senior SF member who outlined their current strategy. There was no opposition expressed to the analysis he put forward. I would suggest the event I attended is much more representative of the general feelings of the nationalist electorate, than a highly motivated bunch of dissidents and their supporters.
“Bear in mind Ulick Sinn Fein & their supporters are a minority. Its very possible everyone else does want to get a devolved Assembly.
So why give two figs about SF?”
Because they represent the nationalist community and there is recognition all round that the exclusion of the nationalist community in the old NI state was the root cause of our troubles. There will be no going back to that, so unless the DUP ante up they can wither and die on their own sword like the UUP.
The video of Tommy meeting the Doc is better. The Doc is effectively asked to swear on the Bible that he is prepared to share power with the provos.
His body language and some of the terms he uses are also very interesting. For example, laughing heartily he talks about how “you need to be in the south to understnad politics in the south and you need to be in the north to understand politics in the north.”
Remember the fucking hullaballo when Seamus Mallon insisted on calling this place ‘The North’?
Ulick
nah..you see, they don’t, they represent a section of the nationalist community..who are in turn a minority…
Just admit what you really mean, lets just exclude unionists because they are too awkward…at least be honest.
Ulick
‘let the Shinners get back to their real business of the election south of the border. ‘
Yeah they’d better get their finger out about that cos at the mo there on a hiding to nothing according tothe latest polls – a case of stagnation for them and revival for FF/PDs
And remember if SF dont get hold the balance of power this time by the time of the followng Dail election they’ll be old news – Worker Party anyone
Yokel as far as the current constitutional agreement is concerned, SF represents the nationalist community. That might be hard for you to accept that’s life – you’ll just have to live with it. The days of exclusion whether nationalist or unionist are gone.
That’s right IP, the Shinners have bigger fish to fry so don’t be fooled by the hype. The only people that need a deal are Tony Blair and the DUP.
Neither of them need a deal either, not least the DUP…..otherwise why accuse the DUP of being rejectionist or deal blockers if they NEED a deal?
Two faced……and so obvious to boot.
You also failed to answer the question because we know what the answer is.
IP, the existing parties in the South won’t let them into power end of story.
I haven’t accused them of anything, but they are engaged in brinkmanship on the premise that SF is desperate for power. As I said above the DUP are mistaking SF willingness to be accommodating as a sign of desperation and/or weakness. If the DUP don’t reach a deal, they will fragment especially if Paisley doesn’t lead them into it and their new found pre-eminence with unionism will be gone.
Failed to answer what question – your comment about excluding unionists? Maybe you missed my last post “The days of exclusion whether nationalist or unionist are gone.â€
Pardon the DUP and most other unionists for missing their charity……..
It’s not charity, they have another agenda of work and want these issues put to bed – but whether that will happen through a deal or Hain pulling the plug is ultimately the decision of the DUP.
Plug pulled, plug will be put back in again. As soon as Tony goes and Hain goes, they’ll try again….yout hink Gordon will leave it to fester? Nah, to good a chance at the role of peacemaker for him not to give it at least one go.
Plan B as it turned out was a paper toger and the UK government do not want to go down that line because there is nothing to go down with right now. It doesnt really matter at this time what Bertie wants as its London driving the show.
Nationalism has had perhaps one of the most green double acts in Blair & Hain for some time. We have no idea who will follow on next but its very possible that nationalism’s window is closing to get the maximum possible outcomes from negotiations.
My take is that what’s occuring is a bit like trying to get a scrum to lock down. Hain, is the ref. Aherne, Blair are linesmen and the DUP and SF opposing teams.
Now in Rugby sometimes the ref has to start and restart the scrum because there’s pulling and pushing etc. Its his job to get the forwards to lock in properly before the hookers puts the ball in.
The rules like sluggers are you have to play the ball, not the man.
Now I firmly believe once the game starts ( power-sharing and support for PSNI ) norn iron is in for a treat.
Because both main parties have to be seen to be working the Agreement fairly, yet there is room for the competitive rugger match between unionism and republicanism on the constitutional question.
Nationalism has got what it wants for now i.e. a commitment to implement the GFA. It can do without the Assembly part if the Dupers aren’t mature enough to take the on the responsibility. It could be fun to sit tight and watch unionism disintegrate all over again.
Ah. now we got the core…
Up there you weres saying how neither side being ignored (shared future) then its ‘oh how fun to see unionism disintegrate’ (elimination)
I knew it would slip out.
No torture at Castlereagh required..they don’t build republicans like they used to….
parcifal -
Interesting analogy re rugby.
(Pedant alert – scrum-half puts the ball into scrum – not hooker -:).
By the way, speaking of rugby, a killer in rugby is to be sold a “dummy” – and then watch helplessly as your opponent touches the ball down under your posts…….always got to watch out for those “dummies”.
Grasping at straws there Yokel. Hardly a desire for exclusion, just a little bit of schadenfreude on my part.
Have to say Munsterman theres been remarkably few hookers involved in local political scene ove teh decades…..
Caught on Ulick.
IMHO SF need the assembly because SF need elections.
They want to be seen to be campaiging for the republican cause which is now a pipe dream.
thanks munsterman yes I forgot hookers do the line-ins.
whom do you think in the current game is selling whom a dummy?
-digression
-I like the way the Ireland team, is playing at the moment, not giving away any penalities, as that’s a sure way to lose aswell.
Penalties, being unforced errors hurt more, than say a good dummy, which you have to admire!
As to the final outcome, when the ref can get the players to actually play the GAME
I think I agree with Oscar Wilde:
“A man who can dominate a London dinner table can dominate the world. The future belongs to the dandy. It is the exquisites who are going to rule.”
(Oscar Wilde (1854-1900), Anglo-Irish playwright, author. Lord Illingworth, in A Woman of No Importance, act 3.)
parcifal :
Mega-pedant alert – “Line-outs” (not “line-ins”).
I personally think Ian Paisley is trying to sell a dummy. He knows full well that what Unionism has now – and much, much more besides – was already on the table way back in 1974 at Sunningdale. He could have sold Sunningdale to the Unionist community in 1974 when Unionism was in a much stronger position than it is today. He chose to join in with the breakers of Sunningdale.
Tommie Gorman effectively put that to him in the interview – and Ian Paisley avoided the question.
As we can see from the contributions from both Unionists and Nationalists, there are still a lot of very raw feelings.
Still, huge progress has been made and I’m sure huge progress will continue to be made.
Gary Mc Michael correctly pointed out (some years ago) that Nationalists and Unionists can continue to defy each other forever.
Can we try to elevate each other, even occasionally ?
DUP had meeting in Antrim last night addressed by McCrea and Dodds. They made it clear there would be no deal no way.
I was heartened by the interview yesterday.
Tommy Gorman always seems to have a good rapport with Paisley and seems to be a very decent chap, in the two interviews I’ve seen with Ian Paisley and Tommy, the big man has always been relaxed and conciliatory.
Nice to see, more of the mistrusts and prejudices being broken down between folk on this emerald isle, Alright enough of thatnow let’s start a football debate about Our Wee Country and watch the sparks fly. :+)
The six dup councillors in Antrim have come out in the local press in opposition to the direction taken by the party leader.
“The party leadership caved into pressure from Ahern and Hain and the councillors in Antrim believe that Jim Allister was right to go on the record to criticise him for doing that.”
Obviously by using the term ‘him’ in relation to the leadership they can only be refering to Paisley.
Blame for the current situation has been put on “latecomers to the party”. Wonder who that could be?
The meetings now being held would appear to be taking on the form of preparing for a leadership challenge. The party leader has to approve nominations for the election and the Dodds/Allister/McCrea faction believe that by taking the leadership they can select their own candidates.
It is believed a certain Cllr from Antrim has been guarenteed a place on the ticket in Sth Antrim for attacking Paisley.
munsterman,
again thanks for the correction. I’ve not played since school-days. keep me on my toes
I see what you’re saying re the dummy. Haven’t made up my mind yet; but Henry94 made a comment a few days ago here suggesting that Paisley’s clarification statement last Friday was prompted by real pressure from Aherne and Blair, in effect saying that if he wasn’t going to nominate as FM then the plug would be pulled immediately!
I think Paisley has been on a journey too, no longer belligerently anti-catholic, at least not in public. + he’s never been in the position before, where he holds the largest party.
Usually he’s been the dissenter to the UUP.
+ sadly Church in Eire is dying,( = no threat )
+ Eire has all the jobs,
+ he doesn’t want Hain as a “visitor”.
Rememeber he joked at the Labour Party conference that “there was a nationalist in all of us “.
+ SF aint never giving up, tenacious as terriers.
The pressure must be overwhelming.
His MLA’s must be sweating at the prosepect of job losses.
Of course he’ll claim he got rid of the IRA and brought SF to respectability in terms of courts, law and order.
I’ve not even mentioned the First Minister Halo.
surely it can’t be a dummy.?
I hope I’m right.
Agree with your elevation statement:
Genuine change is never a function of dominance, but of empathy and common ground.
the other one
so its looking like a new anti-agreeement party of sorts will form then., or is this just gnashing of teeth?
Ian Paisley is doing a good job..his impersonation of David Trimble is a dead ringer.
The Other One aka Rebecca Black. Try harder with the scare stories – you latest efforts a a load of crap.
Check front page of Antrim Guardian.
Oh and I’m not Rebecca just like I’m not Alex.