Brazil remain top of the FIFA rankings issued today but world champions Italy are closing in fast. One other small thing, Northern Ireland are now ahead of the Republic of Ireland, in 45th place as opposed to 49th for Staunton’s team.
I share many of the concerns of Andy Pollak, whose recent post ‘My Response to the Slugger Begrudgers’ zeroed in on the ‘relentless flow of negativity’ of some Slugger commentators. Pollak’s post was largely concerned with the medium of the blog. Indeed, I think the anonymity of the online world encourages extreme discourse and allows [...] read our review »
Writer Christopher Hitchens has died aged 62. He was as contrary as he was brilliant. Here is a brief In Memoriam from Vanity Fair (his outlet of choice since 1992) and, here, a longer tribute from his friend Christopher Buckley Stanley in The New Yorker. Better, perhaps, though to post one of Hitchens’ own writings in [...] read our review »
World by Storm has a nice piece up on the IRA’s role in helping MK, the armed wing of the ANC, in the 1980s. In particular he sees a strange alchemy at work there: …if one can think of a clearly legitimate contemporary struggle it was that against apartheid and it is to the credit [...] read our review »
Vinty
Stop lying.
It’s pointless.
Willowfield
Stop lying.
It’s pointless
Really?
Anton Rogan was also constantly subjected to sectarian abuse during his 28 game n.i career.
Rogan has been quoted as saying that, on several occasions, he had considered walking out of the dressing room prior to home games, as the found it difficult to deal with the constant sectarian singing and chanting directed at him and his family.
Andy Townsend’s recollections of the Windsor park reception on 17th Nov 1993.
“I just remember the hostility and sectarian hatred coming from every part of the stadium.
At one point prior to the start of the game,I was approached by a supporter.He said “Hey Townsend,you Fenian scum,i hope your mother dies if cancer”.
Sectarianism among the n.i fanbase is still very real.
Sectarian singing in Manchester , billy boys in the bot, the sash on bagpipes in Copenhagen.
Business as usual for the ‘no surrender’ army
“Used to be that the Republic had more British than Irish players”
Actually they were all Irish. Dem is the rules ya know.
Realist
Missed this earlier…
“Who caused the partitioning of football …”
That’s debatable actually, some would say it was the Sectarian FA.
Tom
Officially the best fans in Europe, this might upset you but you will get over it.
Onwards and Upwards.
Onwards, upwards and. NO SURRENDER.
“Onwards, upwards and. NO SURRENDER. ”
A little add on not unlike “Fields” etc. eh.
As I said GAWA best fans in Europe accept it and move on. Come and join us if you like.
“As I said GAWA best fans in Europe ”
you wish!
It is important to remember that this isn’t a UEFA endorsement. UEFA endorse the City of Brussels initiative set up in 2005.
The only previous winners were a Spanish team with a history of racism.
The award is to promote anti-racism initiatives in memory of the victims of the Heysel tragedy.
The award recognises those teams with a history of despicable behaviour that have made efforts to change that terrible behaviour.
Like the only previous winners the award recognises the north’s efforts to be less racist.
The award is not for ‘the best fans in Europe’.
The award is for fans that have exhibited racism but have made efforts to eradicate their racism (or sectarianism in this case).
Stop the spinning.
It isn’t a best fans award.
It is an improved racists award given in memory of those killed by racist football fans.
And it isn’t a UEFA award.
Well done for being recognised as amongst the improving fans of Europe, not the best.
Sorry to have been so cruel but you GAWA folks are spining this beyond belief.
You only get nominated for this award if your fans are believed to have behaved like scum but your association or team has made efforts to reduce their vile behaviour.
It is ridiculous to hear people claiming it as a ‘best fans’ award.
Sorry not ridiculous, its a lie.
(I can’t believe you haven’t been pulled up on this before, I assuming most fans don’t even realise only racist teams get a crack at the ‘award’)
Mark
read back over your diatribe and try and see the irony.
The only time IO encountered racism at an international match was the famous kill the Jews match of ROI v Israel.
Ach but sure it was only a bit of craic.
GAWA officially the best fans in Europe, live with it.
The award sponsored by Brussels City (not UEFA) is to recognise improved racists fans, like the previous Spanish winners, and is sponsored in memory of fans killed by racists fans at Heysel.
Get used to it.
Truth hurts.
All you have to do is prove me wrong but I know you can’t because like George I have done my research.
Best fans in Europe my arse, most improved racists is the award you won and from a City Council not a footballing organisation.
I’ll let you dig your hole a little further before giving the links. (and I do have the links)
Dr Who,
Start googling.
Who gives the award? Who were the first winners? Who is it given in memory of? What is the actual name of the award? What is the purpose of the award? What does the award recognise? Is it a best fans award? A UEFA award?
Go on, have a crack at it.
(I’ll even give you the translations when you get stuck)
You won it and well done but it isn’t a ‘best fans’ award.
Mark
Officially the best fans in Europe, next the world.
STAND UP FOR THE ULSTERMEN.
Sriously though Mark, it was an award handed out to an individual fan Jim Rainey by UEFA in recognition of the enormous generosity shown by Northern Ireland fans in their efforts to raise funds for UEFA´s chosen charities.
Perhaps you could organise something similar in ROI, if they could stop singing “Stand Up If You Hate The Brits” for lond enough.
A head in the rankings and streets ahead in credibility…Doesn´t make you proud to be an Ulsterman.
The award was not from UEFA.
Try again!
The award was from the City of Brussels.
Mark
Best fans in Europe, live with it, try harder, be good and then one day you too may get recognition.
Dr Who,
I’m afraid you are a liar.
I’ve given you the truth. Time and time again.
You’ve refuse to listen.
You won an award from Brussels City for improved racists.
I’m bored with you now. You’ve been told the truth but continue to lie.
UEFA, awarded you nothing. Brussels City decided you deserved recognition for being less contemptible than before.
Show me a link to a UEFA or any best fans award. It never happened. You are a liar.
I’ve told you the truth and you refuse it. You are also self delusional.
Best fans? Slightly less racist was your award and it was from a city council!
*yawn*
Maca
“BP
“obv it’s only nationalists that the ROI is interested in then?”
Anyone who can kick a football really (going by the amount of non-Irish lads who have played for us over the years. I wouldn’t call Cas, Aldo, Houghton nationalists)”
Maca
Outside NI, of course the potential player’s political “background” (being euphemistic there) is completely unimportant. Within NI the only players apparently (George will probably prove otherwise;)) who interest the ROI are those solely from a *Nationalist* (being euphemistic again there) background. On which criteria (other than playing ability) is does the FAI selection committee decide which N. irish players to select for their team ?
The IFA ofcouldn’t care less what bcak ground their players come from!!
Mark
(when you wake up!)
“I’ll let you dig your hole a little further before giving the links. (and I do have the links)”
I’m struggling to find anything from local Brussels’ papers about the award
I’d appreciate any original language links (don’t bother yourself with the translations).
Mark,
The “Best Fans” Award was the UEFA, IOC and EU endorsed Brussels International Supporters Award.
If you like, we can post UEFA communications on the matter?
Jim Rainey was very honoured to receive the award on behalf of Norhern Ireland fans, in the company of a UEFA Official and the Deputy Mayor Of Brussels.
We can post the photos if you like?
It’s disappointing that you begrudge your fellow Irishmem and women such recognition.
maca,
“That’s debatable actually, some would say it was the Sectarian FA”
I would refer you to “The Official History Of The FAI” by Peter Byrne, published in 1996.
Still waiting on kensei to “debate” it.
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/Keytopics/kind=4/newsId=448323.html
http://www.supportersaward.be/en/preambule
Onward and Upwards.
BP
“Within NI the only players apparently who interest the ROI are those solely from a *Nationalist* background.”
Not that I would ever accuse you of lying but I don’t really believe that. I firmly believe the FAI are interested in anyone who can kick a football. But perhaps in their experience unionist players have told them to fuck off.
Realist
“I would refer you to “The Official History Of The FAI” by Peter Byrne, published in 1996.”
You don’t need to. You used the word “caused”, so it is debatable who “caused” the problems which led to the split.
_ _ _ _
From the first link Realist posted: “Brussels International Supporters Award”
And from the Award homepage:
“Created in 2005 on the occasion of the homage made by the City of Brussels to the thirty-nine victims of the Heysel tragedy, with a concept thought by the communication and marketing agency Dialogic, the Brussels International Supporters Award was last year presented to the Spanish group Peña Multicolor for its fight against racism in the stadium of the small Andalusian town of El Ejido.”
“The philosophy of the award has not changed since last year. To return football to an atmosphere of festivity, it is first necessary to address the supporters who provide the ambiance in the stadiums. It is they who have to be convinced that conviviality and fraternity should prevail rather than fanaticism, racism and violence. The Brussels International Supporters Award was founded on the grand principles of sporting ethics. It encourages goodwill and rewards projects that go in the same direction.”
All credit to NI for winning it, they richly deserve it IMO, but any talk of best fans in the world is blatant nonsense. Some ROI fans peddled the same nonsense for years, it was nonsense then and it’s nonsense now. NI fans have an inferiority complex. Just accept who you are lads and get on with it.
“Pat is on record as saying he was subjected to constant sectarian singing & name calling during his entire career playing for the North.”
Well, no he’s not actually.In his autobiography he says he was appalled by some of the remarks made on his debut. This -he felt-was partly because he got the nod over Iam McFaul, who was then at Linfield, and his religion didn’t help.He goes on to say that was all in the past, and that he had been totally accepted. So keep on exaggerating if you wish, but you don’t tarnish the reputation of a true giant of the game- just yourself.
He did of course want to play for an all-Ireland team- that’s the opinion of others, including Orangeman Derek Dougan- which they’re entitled to hold. All I know is that I stood on the Kop when Jennings was in his pomp in the 1970s and 1980s and they chanted his name and applauded him. Noone made any comments adverse to him when I was there, but of course I accept his comments as true.
On page 132 of his autobiography he says “I have always been proud to represent Northern Ireland” QED. vinty shoots- Jennings saves
oh and tom I was also there when Rogan got stick from some on the Kop. It didn’t happen until quite a few games into his career, it was not helped by the fact that the lad was , with all due respect to his sensitivities, a complete duffer whose name on the team sheet must surely have even produced a collective groan at Cellick Park, and I was one of that section of the crowd which sang “One Anton Rogan” (thank goodness)in response to the totally unacceptable abuse that another section gave him.
I was also at Windsor when we played the RoI as referred to in Townsend’s book. Yes the atmosphere was charged, and not for the delicate.I would say it almost reached the ferocity of an Old Firm match- of which I have sen several, or a Man U -Liverpool match. Almost, but not quite. It was a derby match, and a grudge match. It wasn’t going to be cucumber sandwiches on the lawn. But it doesn’t merit the legendary status that the MOPEists seek to give to it.
I’ve heard Arsenal fans singing “Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz”, I’ve seen Hearts fans sing about the death of a Hibs fan ; Linfield had some fans who used to sing about the mother of a Glentoran player who had drowned twenty years ago. And the abuse Paul Ince got at West Ham with Man Ure was worse than anything at Windsor that night. He’d have been lucky to have only been cursed with cancer. Add to this the casual racism and prejudice which infested football in the UK in the 1970s and 1980s, and still does elswhere, and the efforts to make the NI fans into uniquely catholic baby eating category
ctd
are clearly motivated by political antipathy from the begrudgers rather than objective distaste
BP
“Within NI the only players apparently who interest the ROI are those solely from a *Nationalist* background.”
Not that I would ever accuse you of lying but I don’t really believe that. I firmly believe the FAI are interested in anyone who can kick a football. But perhaps in their experience unionist players have told them to fuck off.”
I’m not lying because I don’t know the truth one way or the other, I’m simply putting 2 and 2 together.
OK put it like this, if they had ever approached a player from a *Unionist* (again put euphemistically) background, I think, given the nature of society in NI, that player would not only have told them to f-off but would (or at least their political reps) would have been onto the media pronto telling about the ROI *poaching*. So, if the ROI has only been approaching players from a *nationalist* background in NI, are they not adopting a discriminatory perhaps even sectarian selection policy?
There was I think (older readers can help out!) a Blueman from NI who played for the ROI in the 80s though, I can’t remember the background
BP
“I’m not lying…”
“if the ROI has only been approaching players from a *nationalist* background in NI, are they not adopting a discriminatory perhaps even sectarian selection policy?”
I didn’t mean to imply that you might be.
And no. My opinion is that the FAI would accept anyone who wants to play for them but possibly only approach nationalist players for fear of being told to eff off by unionist ones. That’s not sectarian. I don’t believe they don’t want unionist players but perhaps are unable or unsure how to approach them.
You said they are not interested in unionist players (Oct 20, 2006 @ 08:23am). That would be sectarian. Not approaching and not being interested in are two very different things IMO.
p.s. also bear in mind that most nationalists are Irish citizens. Most unionists are probably not.
“My opinion is that the FAI would accept anyone who wants to play for them but possibly only approach nationalist players for fear of being told to eff off by unionist ones”
AFAIK a football association selects the players it wants to play for it in a representative fixture, before actually approaching those players to see if there are willing to turn out for the country or not. It’s up to the player to decide whether or not to play. Have any from a Unionist background been selected at any level?
Re Unionists being Irish citizens and thus eligible to play for the FAI, there was a whole kerfuffle last years about those holding an Irish passport being allowed to represent NI, I woiuld presume that the opposite scenario also applies, ie, if a Unionist was selected to play for the ROI he (under the GFA) would face no problems from the citizenship issue. Moving slightly into the realms of fantasy there admitedly but legally there would be nothing to stop them from playing for the ROI.
And I’m getting pedantic now, how do the FAI make the judgement about who or isn’t a nationalist- the usual NI methods?;)
BP
“AFAIK a football association selects the players it wants to play for it in a representative fixture”
It’s ain’t black and white. They may select players they would like but may not necessarily approach them if they expected a negative answer.
“Have any from a Unionist background been selected at any level?”
No idea. Have any ever expressed a desire to play for the Republic? Unlikely. Doesn’t mean one was never approached.
“if a Unionist was selected to play for the ROI he (under the GFA) would face no problems from the citizenship issue. … but legally there would be nothing to stop them from playing for the ROI.”
No of course not, I don’t see any problem there. But how many unionists carry only Irish passports or consider themselves first and foremost (R)Irish? Zero? Nationalists on the other hand, being nationalists, consider themselves part of our nation so it’s quite natural for them to want to play for ROI. Shouldn’t the FAI scout for players who want to play for ROI? Seems natural to me.
I honestly think too much is being read into this. Look at the number of British born players who have played for the ROI over the years … and have become our heroes … Aldo, Ray Houghton, Tony Cas and numerous others.
The FAI will try and get the best players they can I just don’t think they are brave enough to poach unionist players. That doesn’t make them sectarian, just chicken
One of the northern born players, Marc Wilson from Lurgan said the following when asked about the increase of players from the North opting to play for Ireland
Wilson claimed that there was no underlying reason for the trend. He said: “I think everybody has their own personal reasons for wanting to play for the Republic or the North. I grew up supporting Ireland so it was a comfortable decision for me.”
Darron Gibson said much the same when asked about his inclusion a couple of years ago.
Yound lads growing up supporting the Republic of Ireland (as do the vast majority of Nationalists in the north), decide to play for the Republic Of Ireland.
Stop Press…
Teenagers want to emulate their heroes..
Shock ! Horror !
Some conspiracy.
Maca
The fact is that for players from NI the FAI are making a decision on not only footballing ability, but also political/religious background, we both agree on that.It’s whether you classify employing such a criteria in this case as prcatical or sectarian.
To my way of thinking factors such as political background/religion/race, which have no effect on a player’s footballing ability, are brought into a selection equation, then any club or international team is starting to move into very dangerous territory.
But I don’t think we are going to reach agreement here, so I’ll bow gracefully out and let you have the last word:)
darth rumsfeld,
On the subject of Pat Jennings, who is celebrated in the mural of Northern Ireland greats at Windsor Park, he can’t have been too appalled – he worked under McMenemy as the Northern Ireland goalkeeping coach as part of the failed “dream team”.
He would be held in the highest regard by Northern Ireland fans, and would be odds on to top any poll of Northern Ireland fans on who was our greatest ever servant – that includes Bestie.
An idol and a hero.
Onwards and Upwards.
“To my way of thinking factors such as political background/religion/race, which have no effect on a player’s footballing ability, are brought into a selection equation, then any club or international team is starting to move into very dangerous territory.”
Your right! The FAI should just approach every single half decent NI player and try to convince them to play for us!
I’m glad we agree on something.
Harry
Can you provide a link for Maec Wilson´s quote or did he tell this down the pub.
As far as I was aaware about Wilson, was he was origianally from the South and has never represented NI at any level.
Kensei
“Your right! The FAI should just approach every single half”
It is the height of insensitivity and bad neighbourliness to do such a thing. Goodwill and decency are still worth striving for in this part of the world.
I try to have goodwill towards the ROI Football Team as another Irish team but if they started actively poaching players in the way you say that would evaporate
If the FAI are approached by northerners wanting to play for them then they should accept them.
My attitide is that the key to NI Football is Pride and Passion – if you havent got that or your heart is somewhere else then you better off with the latter.
However actively approaching those in another recognised football jurisdiction is out of order.
We have enough problems on this island with ancient enmities and divisions without them being actively encouraged.
I also wish that these youngsters would make an earlier decision about who they want to play for so that IFA resources and available places are not wasted.
It is sad that they choose to play for the ROI and not for the jurisdiction within which they reside – I know all the arguments so there is no need to rehearse them to me
It is just sad and as I said on another thread this is just creating more division when sport of all things could actually bring people together.
“However actively approaching those in another recognised football jurisdiction is out of order.”
I fail to see why. If they don’t want to play for the Republic, they’ll refuse. You’ll lose no-one who doesn’t want to go.
“It is just sad and as I said on another thread this is just creating more division when sport of all things could actually bring people together.”
Yes. A United team would do just that. It is indeed a same that some insist on dividing Irishmen from each other.
Kensei
You might this so you can ready for your first match in Dublin.
I think you will have no problem singing the words.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5EIWA2V2Zs
Perhaps it´s an ellaborate hoaz.
kensei,
“It is indeed a shame that some insist on dividing Irishmen from each other”
Write your complaint to the FAI, Merrion Square, Dublin, asking them why they saw sit to do this.
Ask them are they prepared to come back to the fold, and let us know how you get on.
Good man.
Onwards and Upwards.
Doctor Who,
Your link isn’t working.
Is it the “Stuttgart Special”?
If so, it is clearly evident that those involved in such craicsterism do not share kensei’s wish to see a “united” Ireland team.
Onwards and Upwards.
Doctor Who,
that link you sent doesn’t work. Says the video is no longer available. Have you got another link?
Or was it pulled because it was a hoax?
Dr Who, BP1078, Realist,
Here’s your link lads.
http://www.supportersaward.be/fr/preambule
The award is from the City of Brussels (but endorsed by others) and is for improving sectarian or racist fans not the ‘best fans in Europe’ nonsense you have been going on about.
The only other winners were a Spanish club with a history a racism.
Sorry to have burst your bubble but someone needed to when so many have been telling porkies about what you were awarded and from whom.
Not a UEFA award, not a best fans award. A town council award in memory football fans killed by racists that is given to improving racists.
Well done. Most teams wouldn’t even reach the nomination stages never mind win such an award.
“Write your complaint to the FAI, Merrion Square, Dublin, asking them why they saw sit to do this.
Ask them are they prepared to come back to the fold, and let us know how you get on. ”
I take it we apply the same logic to the Northern statelet then?
Or do you think we should deal with things as they currently are now?
No sometimes on youtube if there are many users. The video won´t up load
Try typing in stutgart football fans.
Enjoy
Mark
Best fans in europe..oficial..except it and move on.
kensei,
“I take it we apply the same logic to the Northern statelet then?”
I have never been away from the fold – nor were my parents, grandparents, or great grandparents.
Do you want some time to think through your logic?
“Or do you think we should deal with things as they currently are now?”
I’m happy with things the way they are now thanks – I’ve told you that on numerous occassions before.
You’ll be happier too, once the young nationalists/republicans of Northern Ireland start beating down the door of Merrion Square.
I’ll still be happy. Sorry to lose them, but still happy nonetheless.
Everyone’s a winner.
Onwards and Upwards.
“Here’s your link lads”
Thanks Mark – I posted it earlier, together with the UEFA site link.
“but endorsed by others”
Aye, including UEFA.
Fantastic honour for our fans, and in particular Jim Rainey.
Onwards and Upwards.
Doctor Who,
have done that. Got three pages of different fans doing different things in Stuttgart but none of them with this URL that you have posted.
Seems this video has disappeared.
“I have never been away from the fold – nor were my parents, grandparents, or great grandparents.
Do you want some time to think through your logic? ”
Er, no – Unionists in the North are responsible for partition, because they wanted their own “Protestant State for a Protestant People”.
George I have just watched it again.