Paisley prepares to meet Brady while Adams may be preparing to meet the Historical Enquiry Team
Following over a year of behind the scenes contacts a DUP delegation including Ian Paisley will meet with the leader of the Catholic Chruch in Ireland, Sean Brady. Gregory Campbell said:
“We will give him reassurance on our commitment to power sharing if he requires it.”
Meanwhile, the Sunday Times claims it will be confirmed this week that Gerry Adams’ fingerprints have been found on a car used in a double murder in 1972. More detail here. UPDATE As the commenting on this thread has gone massively off topic and for a small number descended into sectarian trolling comments have been closed. If you want to heap sectarian abuse feck off to the utv website where you will be made to feel at home. Slugger has standards.
Fair Deal,is this story on the ST’s online edition? I couldn’t find it.
rupert
If you mean the Adams story it is in the penultimate paragraph of the Paisley article
well fd
Both Adams and Paisley seem to have left a lasting fingerprint. Though in divers ways!
( ahem, cough ).
OOOOOOO, a couple of dead RUC officers so what. Its a well known fact that most of the Criminal Justice System (called CJS for a reason, they are concerned with the rights of the criminal as opposed the victim) are Freemasons or members of other insideous secret socities (which pervert the course of justice), for that reason alone they should all be shot.
I’m sure that Adams is party to a lot of information that would be useful to the HET.
A lot depends on the context within which the ‘evidence’ was discovered – ie no statements as to whereabouts on the car the fringerprints were found. As for DNA, again a lot depends on the type of tests that were used if it was originally done during the 1980s as claimed in the article it would have been a form of STR-DNA, however, if the tests were re-done rescently then its more likely a form of LCN-DNA would have been used. The latter test is really sensitive and can pick up DNA from second or even third transfer – just from shaking someones hand it would be possible to plant their DNA onto any object, its not difficult.
The News of the World also have a piece on Adams today and here is an earlier story they did.
The prints were on the outside of the car so its hardly proof of involvment but most people would be interviewed by the police in these circumstances.
++++++++++++++
Headline: Finger of suspicion;Exclusive
Source: News of the World
Issue Date: Sunday September 10, 2006
Byline: Martin Breen
PSNI may question Adams over why his prints were on car seized after killings
SINN Fein leader Gerry Adams may be investigated over a double murder 35 years ago.
Police chiefs are considering a formal request from a murder inquiry review team to interview the West Belfast MP.
The PSNI’s new Historical Enquiries Team, which is probing all unsolved Troubles-related murders, has found that his fingerprints were on a stolen car seized a short time after the fatal shooting of two policemen in north Belfast.
The link was uncovered when the cold case team re-investigated the murders of RUC officers Cecil Cunningham, 46, and John Haslett, 21, below right, on October 15, 1971.
The armed officers were in plain clothes in an unmarked car on sruveillance duties.
They were at the junction of Twaddell Avenue and Woodvale Road in north Belfast watching a bank and post office after a spate of robberies in the area.
IRA gunmen, believed to be driving a green Ford Cortina, raked the policemen’s car with bullets.
Constable Cunningham, married with a nine-year-old son, was one of five Co Fermanagh brothers who joined the police to follow in their father’s footsteps. Constable Haslett was a single man from east Belfast and had been in the RUC for just over a year.
Within hours of the murders police seized a stolen green Cortina in Belfast they identified as being used by republicans and a car was found on fire in the Ardoyne area of north Belfast. Cops never established if the burning car was the gunmen’s or one of two used by the gang. But the review team has found that in the late 1980s new DNA techniques used to analyse a set of fingerprints on the Cortina identified them as those of Adams.
The Cortina had been stolen some months before the murders, resprayed green and fitted with false number plates.
An internal report into the double murder review is understood to reveal that despite his fingerprints being linked to the case almost 20 years ago Adams was never interviewed about this.
PSNI sources revealed that in June a report was submitted to the heads of the Historical Enquiries Team by case officers recommending thatAdams be interviewed.
A PSNI spokeswoman last night confirmed the case was being re-examined but said the only “communication” would be with victims’ families.
Despite this latest development with the 1972 double murders and others in a series of murder cases already reinvestigated form the early 1970s police are not hopeful of many convictions.
When the News of the World asked Sinn Fein if its members would be co operating with the Historical Enquiries Team the party’s spokesman on Truth issues Philip McGuigan said: “Sinn Fein are absolutely committed to seeing a process developed which can deliver closure for the families of those killed during the conflict.
“This process must be victim centred and must deal comprehensively with the issue.
To date the British government have sought only to deny and manage information. Many people from within the community we represent continue to remain hugely sceptical of the British government commitment to truth, justice or dealing with the past and the formation of the Historical Enquiries Team does not in any way address this reality.”
The Sinn Fein President has always denied being involved in the IRA despite widespread claims to the contrary from former IRA members, other republicans, politicians and security force members.
The security and republican sources say he was a Belfast commander in the Belfast IRA during the early 1970s.
Adams could not be contacted last night but a Sinn Fein spokesman described the revelations about Adams as “rubbish” and said the party won’t be commenting on it.
And Adams’s closest aide Richard McCauley said the party “won’t be making any comment on it until we have further details”.
As an academic exerise it would be interesting to procure DNA and fingerprint samples from Paisley et al, just to run through the AFIS (Automated Fingerprint Identification System) and the NDNAD (National DNA Database) just to see how many crimes they can be linked to….
Paisley meeting Brady
Just another flip flop from a man who has spent his entire life castigating others for doing what he eventually does himself.
Both in politics and now in religion as well.
P O’Neill,
You forgot about the Scottish Premier League referees – they’re all Rangers supporting Freemasons too
Ciao baby
(ps – pity your massacre of 20,000 Protestants in 1641 didnt succeed, eh?)
John East Belfast,
Very observant
Brady should listen to Paisley’s confession and then as a penance give Paisley , 1,700,000 Our Father’s /Lord’s Prayers/ to recite on his knees in an igloo somewhere on the Ross shelf Ice sheet in Antartica . Hair suit to be supplied but no gnashing teeth . Paisley has already IIRC agreed to supply them .
“You forgot about the Scottish Premier League referees – they’re all Rangers supporting Freemasons too” – may be thats because football has no impact on the real world, just another diversion to keep the sheeples attention away from real matters.
“(ps – pity your massacre of 20,000 Protestants in 1641 didnt succeed, eh?)”
There’s still time and my sword is nice and sharp….
Sean Brady is most certainly not “the leader of the Catholic Church in Ireland”. He is leader only of the Roman Catholic denomination of the Catholic Church.
Since the Catholic church has taken a sinister turn to the extreme, extreme, right, making Attila the Blank look positively liberal, Mr Paisley engaging with a representative of the ne-con, Facist, Christian, global conglomorate, that is the Catholic church P.L.C. should not surprise anyone.
willowfield ,
A little extrapolation might help some of us deduce who is then in fact the leader of the Catholic Church in Ireland ?
Father Jack Hackett perhaps ?
There is no such (mortal) leader.
The Catholic Church is divided among many denominations, each with its own leader in Ireland (and elsewhere).
Isn’t Christ supposed to be the head of the one holy Catholic and apostolic Church?
If you take this stuff seriously, that is.
The RC Church has apostasised, thats why they are talking to heretics like Paisley. Whereas in the good old days he would have burned at the stake – marshmallows anyone??
Willow likes to ignore the apostolic bit
I don’t like to ignore “the apostolic bit”, nor do I.
Welcome to another round of My fairytale is bigger than your fairytale….
Welcome to another round of My fairytale is bigger than your fairytale….
Or rather, my ability to extort money off my followers/Brainwashed lemmings, like a Mafia gangster is bigger than yours.
The Catholic Church extorts $5-6 billion dollars each year in America alone!
I expect Gerry Adams hands are over a lot more than one double murder. That’s why the British , Irish governments and other parties are negotiating with him. Does Fair Deal, or anyone else for that matter think that the electoral progress of SinnFein would be stopped by proof of this claim being correct? Tony Blairs fingerprints are all over the slaughter on tens of thousands of civilians in Iraq — it really didn’t do him too much harm electorally( unfortunately)
I do not expect that we would find the fingerprints of Brian Faulkner or Ted Heath on the weapons used to shoot those murdered in Derry on Bloody Sunday but they are there nevertheless.
Yeah, Rory, Brian Faulkner and Ted Heath told the Army to kill people on Bloody Sunday.
“It is understood that fingerprints found on a burnt-out car after the shooting on October 15, 1971, matched impressions taken from Gerry Adams’ hands when he was arrested in the 1970s.
The discovery was only confirmed in the late 1980s when new DNA techniques were developed to study traces that could not previously be analysed.
Sorry my understanding of DNA is limited so explain to me how advances in DNA have an impact on fingerprint analysis.
The logic behind the Bloody Sunday massacres was to create a ‘blowback’ scenario ie people take up arms and attack the interests of the aggressors, in this instance the British State. This is a standard Intelligence MO, to generate a threat which is then used as a pretext for more overt military action etc. This insideous methodology is currently being used to great effect by the American P2OG (Pre-emptive, Proactive, Operational Group), who since 9/11 (inside job) have had their funding increased to $6 billion. This deathsquad goes into an area and raizes villages etc in order to create a backlash against American interests. If any of you are familiar with the Hegalian dialectic – this is it in it Machiavellian nakedness.
Fingerprints or any contact of skin with any other surface causes trasfer if epithelials (skin cells) which can then analysed. Advances in DNA techniques, in particular PCR (Polyermarise chain reaction) means that you can exponentionally replicate the original sample. Even if you only have partical DNA sample using this methodology, most likely via LCN (low copy number) DNA you can create enough of a sample to be properly analysed.
P O Nieill is right. We only have to see what the Protestant Yanks are up to in Iraq and elsewhere, fomenting civil war with hteir low intensity operations. The Yanks got their arses kicked andn ow want Nato etc to bail them out. Similarly, the Israeli SS in South Lebanon.
If Gerry Adams helped to stiff a few SS RUC men, so what? Will anyone really argue the world is not better off without them and their kind?
1641 and the rest remains a tragedyprecisely because the Protestant low life remain in Ireland.
I don’t see how PCR is of relevance. You can’t put fingerprints through a thermal cycler.
The logic behind the Bloody Sunday massacres was to create a ‘blowback’ scenario…….
Posted by P O’Neil on Oct 01, 2006 @ 07:46 PM
One of most articulate, truthful posts seen on Slugger for many a month.
http://www.truthring.org
Noam Chomsky would be proud.
“Don’t tell the truth to the power, they already know the truth, Tell the truth to the people!!”
“1641 and the rest remains a tragedyprecisely because the Protestant low life remain in Ireland”
Too right – and we’re not going anywhere, so you can kiss my big hairy swingers and stick your united ireland up your star.
Willowfield,
‘There is no such (mortal) leader. ‘
Oh I see what you mean or do I ? I haven’t yet met any immortals in my time but then I lost interest in science fiction when I was 15 or so .
I’ve just started reading Dawkin’s ‘The God Illusion ‘ . So far his ideas are very close to mine:) I’d recommend a read .
M,
They do not put fingerprints through a thermal cycler. Fingerprints generally contain subacious oils etc secreted by the skin, it is this trace evidence that is swabbed and then prepared for DNA extraction. It is based on Locard’s exchange principle, any two surfaces come into contact traces from one will pass on to the other, and vice versa. An example of this would be the keyboard you re using to type this post, it will have your fingerprints as well as the oils, epithelials and other contaminants on it, which can be swabbed and analysed.
Art,
““Don’t tell the truth to the power, they already know the truth, Tell the truth to the people!!”
True, but I think “in times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act” is also applicable. Many politicans and those in high places should bare that in mind, in these times the biggest fear of the British State is exposure of the truth in all its nakedness.
Final Solution. You seem to me like a pathetic bigot lowlife. Take yourself off
P’O Neill ,
‘This deathsquad goes into an area and raizes villages etc in order to create a backlash against American interests.’
Complete and utter shite . The Americans from what I hear and read had a much better and less deliberate way of turning victory into possible defeat in Iraq .
First you have no plan for succession once Saddam has been ousted .
Second you disband the army and police force and start from scratch thus pissing off hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who could have assisted in the reestablisment of civil society .
Third you have a liason officer (Republican of course) between the White House and the Pentagon who picked ‘candidates’ for the top positions in the occupying administration based not on their professional skills or experience but almost solely on their proven loyalty to the Bush .
Fourth – you try to run Iraq as if it’s really West Virginia -and ignoring it’s political and economic history .
In retrospect I think most people would agree that the USA did a great job after World War 2 in both Germany and Japan and in bringing those countries around to modern ‘working ‘ democracies .
Why they may fail in Iraq is due entirely to flawed planning and implementation following Saddam’s removal . Saddam should have been hanged 3 years ago . Today he ‘s making a mockery of the judicial system
Greenflag
Oh I see what you mean or do I ?
I don’t think you do, actually.
P O’Neill,
The claim isn’t for a DNA match or retrevial of DNA from fingerprints but DNA advances meaning they somehow got matching prints using prints from a burned car that were previously unreadable.
Can you explain how DNA advances can lead to unreadable fingerprint evidence now being of use.
I’m interested in how DNA advances affect fingerprint evidence not the ability to retrieve DNA from fingerprints as no claims of a DNA match have been made.
Swabbing the oils from my keyboard wouldn’t make a smudged print from the same keyboard any more or less readable.
My guess at what Willowfield means is that as Catholic include for instance the Anglicans, there is no one leader.
Don’t feed the trolls. Final solution is a hungrier than most one of the species.
in these times the biggest fear of the British State is exposure of the truth in all its nakedness…..
To be even handed I feel you must include the Irish state as well, as seen with the recent Bertie-gate affair, and with certian collusion with Republicans historically.
But the biggest fear for a state, is that of the Americans, Bush administration fear that their abuse of power will be outed before Bush leaves office.
The Irish Conflict wasn’t called “The Dirty war” for nothing.
While Martin Ingram Kevin Fulton Ken Barrett and others who worked as killers, or handlers of killers, for the Brit security services get,to use a metaphor, “F****d in the ass”
Others like Brigadier Gordon Kerr get to live a privilaged life with all the privilages and pension rights. Remember him, middle name Wayne, Kerr, he’s out in Iraq working with the P2OG as we speak.
The Brit govt will do anything to get a deal that sees devolved power by November 24th 2006, even if it means “Hanging out to dry” those who worked directly for the Brit govt.
Still, Martin Ingram, Kevin Fulton, Ken Barrett etc should have known all along, like the story about the Snake and the Frog, when the Snake bits the Frog, he says, “You knew I was a Snake from the start”
Mainstream Irish Republicans fare no better, they are getting “F****d over” by the leadership of Sinn Fein.
While Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams live out their privilaged life, with their holiday homes, international jetsetting, the likes of Thomas Slab Murphy, Brian Keenhan, and yes John Trainer, Bobby Story and others are being, or will soon be,left behind to face the music alone, without any support from the leaders of Sinn Fein.
Thats not to mention those ordinary mainstream Republicans who contributed most and are now left to struggle on meger handouts, while the leaders swaff down vintage champane, and prime steak
The end result is those who were in the front line during the Irish Troubles from both sides are left without a chair, now the music has stopped.
General Thomas Slab Murphy, like other military Generals, “Don’t die, They just Fade away” into peaceful retirement, perhaps even turning Home Place into a museum to educate the young on the war against Britsh colonial appression committed in Ireland against the indigenous people.
Whether Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams were ever Brit agents is now academic, the real damage they have done to the Irish Republican movement is to be seduced by the trappings of state power.
Just as Tony Blair infultrated the British Labour party and turned it into “New Labour” a neo-con, born again Christian right wing party,hidden behind the cloak of Socialist Labour, Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness have created “New Sinn Fein” which will become a neo-con Irish version of New Labour that will go on to secure power in the Republic of Ireland.
To achieve this New Sinn Fein will ditch any socialist policies for more traditional semi-consevative policies.
To prevent bloodshed, even metaphorically, ex-IRA soldiers,Loyalist soldiers and Brit intelligence officers,Irish intelligence officers, should be allowed to leave the stage gracefully, after revealing all to the truth and reconsiliation council, with a generous retirement plan. That would start to heal the wounds of the past.
Unfortunetly, both the Brit govt and New Sinn Fein act in a reactive manner rather than treat their respective point men in a pro-active manner.
A strange paradox, both Irish Republican and Loyalist men who fought eachother with such force are now being equally vilified, castigated and totaly isolated.
bertie I thought “up yours” reply was class.
trolls need a good slap ( within the rules of sluggers )
That they actually fervently believe their own rubbish is highly amusing, but ultimately sad
Greenflag,
I think before you say complete and utter shite to the P2OG, I suggest you do some research on this group, they are not just operating in Iraq.
As for the Iraq situation, the reason it is gearing towards civil war (along sectarian lines) is because that was the plan (read PNACs Rebuilding of America’s Defenses). Afghanistan and Iraq are just the beginning, the US plan is destabalise the region so that they can use that as a pretext to create a perminant military base, and presence, in Iraq, which can then be used as a springboard for other thearters of operation within the Middle-East…
And as for the public perception that the whole war was to steal their oil is not true. 1) Saddam changed their oil exchange from Dollars to Euros (Iran has done the same), the reason oil is traded in dollars is because of the Perto-Dollar scam, ie America (which is bankrupt) just has to print some more money (at not cost) to purchase oil. When they moved into Iraq the converted the trading back to Dollars, wiping almost 20% of the value of Iraqi oil. 2) Saddam flooded the market with cheap oil, why it went down to $10 a barrel. 3) The Yanks have CAPPED the oilfields, ceasing oil production and increasing the market value of oil (via the artifical scarcity scam) and the price increases to over 70% a barrel. 4) Oil is NOT a fossil fuel, that theory was possed by an English scientist in the 18th century. Oil is ABIOTIC produced naturally by the earths magma etc (research by Russian scientists during the cold war). 4) Last week a Saudi oil CEO stated that the world has only used 18% of the earths oil resources. 5) Last year 2 SAS soldiers were arrested for shooting an Iraqi policeman, turns out they were heavily armed, and dressed as Arabs ie FLASE FLAG operation. 6) Oil is not running out, its a massive lie, and ine used as a pretext for so many wars (when I was a lad a living in Scotland, the English media tried to make out there was a salt sacarsity, just to generate panic, also a classic psy-op).
Take your head out of your ass, got onto google video, put a search out for TERRORSTORM, watch and wake up.
Art Hostage
Its a scorpion and a frog.
The rest is amusing, but hopeless resentful nonsense.
What drugs do you take?
P O’Neill,
Be careful what you wish for.
Alex Jones – your mate behind “Terrorstorm” – did an interview a few weeks ago where his guest said that Sinn Fein is so infiltrated it’s a branch of British intelligence.
False Flag par excellence.
Ireland is a political blackops laboratory where strategies are refined to be used in other theatres – and we’re all the guinea pigs.
p’o'neill ‘
Here’s a better read . The best account yet as to why most Americans now believe the Iraq war to have been an ‘error’ of judgement .
Chandrasekaran cuts through the hype, the paranoia and the conspiracy theory fantasists and gives the practical answers .
I also read that Senator Biden is now pusing for a three way ‘partition ‘ of Iraq . The mistake made at the time of the Versaille Treaty by the carve up of the Ottoman Empire according to British and French imperial interests at the time has now come back to haunt the USA .
Rajiv Chandrasekaran covered Iraq for The Washington Post. His new book describes the Americans who went there with idealistic, often uninformed attitudes towards rebuilding a nation. The book is called Imperial Life in the Emerald City: Inside Iraq’s Green Zone.
Anyway we’re way off topic /thread here .
‘Oil is not running out, its a massive lie’
Good jayziz – If you represent SF thinking on this issue then we’ll all be back to the donkey and cart in a decade .
There are 400 million Chinese and approx 200 million Indians not to mention millions of others around the world whose living standard has been increasing by 8% plus for the past decade or more . Many of these people are now buying cars or are close to being able to afford cars . They are also in the market for more oil for their fast expanding economies.
Close your eyes if you want to and while you’re at it put your head between your knees and prepare to kiss your rear end goodbye . You’re beginning make some of the more xenophobic and nuttier loyalists/unionists on Slugger look like paragons of the enlightenment
M,
DNA advances cannot somehow make smudged or partcial prints any clearer, without access to case notes, I can only speculate that the DNA extraction methods I mentioned would have been used to confirm the identity of the donor, because partcial marks are not classed as conclusive evidence. Technically, they arent actually fingerprints, but rather fringermarks (prints are left in soft surfaces like wax, clay, putty etc). Depending on the condition the marks are in, depends on the techniques that can be used to enhance fingermarks ie lasers, quazars, specific protein dyes, and cyannoacralyte (superglue) can be used. Also the method for verification of fingerprints has changed, the old methods used varied from department to department, but generally between 10-20 identifying characteristics (loops, swirls, cuts etc) were needed. Now becuase of AFIS only a few specific markers, even from partcial prints, can yeild a match.
Paolo,
I for one second wouldnt blink at the prospect of Sinn Fein (or even the Irish State) being inflitared, controlled or directed by the British State. They, and other countries, generally do not enter into a war or conflict unless they control or manipulate both side. A class example of this would be WWII, Hitler was British creation, in fact he was a British Agent (read chapter 22 of Scarlet and the Beast, titled English Freemasonry and the Hitler Project). Hitler’s grandfather was Nathan Mayer Rothschild, who impregnated his grandmother, Maria Schicklegrubber, and paid her son, Alois Schicklegrubber to change his name to Hitler. The irony being, Hitler himself was a Jew (and a rent boy when living in Munich, he had a fair criminal record). During WWI & II Aliester Crowley (the Beast, 666) was a British Agent, he claims to have created Hitler and initaited him into Occult practices. Although Crowley was deemed a traitor (Churchills ‘V’ sign was created by Crowley taken from the Sigal of Baphomet) after WWII he came back to England and became the Grandmaster of Sutton Loadge 1591, the Lodge that Churchill, and now Blair, belong too.
Whilst we’re on this point, a prolific English author, Edward George Bulwer-Lytton, wrote a book titled Vril:Power of the coming Race in 1871, this laid the ground for the Aryian myth that was to consume Hitler. NAZI idealology and doctorine was BRITISH. The Bank of England and banks in the US funded Hitler’s rise to power, most famously Prescott Bush, George W Bush’s grandfather, he did this via Chase Manhatten Bank, Brown Brothers Harrimen etc. The one thing they all share is the belief in the Vril ideaology, and their occult ties, Bush via Skull & Bones, Hitler via The Thule and VRIL society and the British (German) Royal Family via Thule, Vril and Children of the SUN (how Edward met Wallace Simpson – at a Children of the Sun orgy, he also sponsered her husband to enter the society, she was given to him a ‘gift’, the reason he was forced to abdicate was because Simpson was American she did not carry the VRIL in her blood).
The American Revolution was controlled in a similar manner, ie Ben Franklin via Freemasonry and Hellfire Club etc, as well as an imput from French Masonry. Ever wondered why America is going around the planet spreading ‘enlightened democracy’ when America was founded as a Republic?? Bush is a ‘Republican’ yet he’s off speading democracy in Iraq.
Given the INSIDEOUS nature of these English bastards I would not be surprised, or shocked, if it were to be reveiled that the 1916, and progenerators, were controlled in a similar manner.
The events of the 20th century is preducated not on facts to be learned, but rather on secrets to be discovered….
Regarding Iraq, the USA is a rogue terorist nation which invaded sovereign Iraq on a lie they stil refuse to acknowledge. Every single death there is the fault of the invasion. There are no American idealists there, only American terrorists, rapists, looters and murderers. They have invaded and carvied up Iraq in the cause of Israel, a disgusting fascist state that gets off on killing Muslim women and children. Anyone who resists these Nazis is a hero.
What has this to do with Gerry Adams? Plenty. If he wasted an RUC man, fair play to him. If he has since sold his soul for a mess of Anglo American pottage, welcome to the club.
Greenflag,
Here’s a link with regrads to the peak oil scam http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2005/120405peakoilscam.htm.
Only 18% of crude oil sources tapped: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,213613,00.html?sPage=fnc.business/energy
Abiotic theory of oil: http://www.enviroliteracy.org/article.php/1130.html
PS Lizzie Sax-Coberg-Gotha-Windsor-Guelph owns BP. The peak oil scam only serves to fill her coffers and keep her degenerate family in their decedent, hedonistic lifestyle.
PPS. I propose that OPEC be remained OIL-Qeada, for they are to the oil trade as to what Al-CIA-da is to the opium trade.