SF intimidation moves down south?
Councillors in New Ross Town aren’t happy with Sinn Fein’s leafletting tactics, with one FF councillor, Kevin Dwyer, seeking a public apology from the SF Chairman of the council, John Dwyer, over what he calls “a deplorable and despicable act of intimidation, [...] completely underhand intimidation of members of the public and public representatives.” Michael Sheehan, FF, adds, “‘Putting fliers on doors and windows and going onto private property might have seemed like a laugh and a joke at the time, but when you bring families into it it’s not very funny at all,’ while FG Cllr Ray Lawlor would prefer to keep party politics out of council chambers altogether. John Dwyer, for his part, calls it a publicity stunt and suggest FF will be talking to SF “with a view to forming a coalition” regardless.Some questions are, does the shadow around SF (namely, the IRA), mean rough and tumble politics take on a more sinister meaning, and is the south ready to accept SF at (political) face value?
What about the time Sinn Fein ensured the polling station was kept open so that all it’s voters were able to vote. Are peoples memories that short.
Kensei
and here I was thinking you were on my side : -(
seriously though – i know what you’re saying but my emphasis was on actually hassling people – ie multiply calling on people on the same day. IN my view this puts undue pressure on them to vote. Of course they can spoli their vote – as well as the aforementioned thing of voting for the opposition – but if they can’t be @rsed to vote why should they feel obliged because someone keeps calling on them?
I’m not singling SF for criticism for here btw – i’ve seen it performed by all sorts of parties in different elections.
To Andy
The word you are looking for when you say ‘[Putting people under pressure’ is plain and simply INTIMADITION.
The Shinners guys are better organised than the Mafia.
“The word you are looking for when you say ‘[Putting people under pressure’ is plain and simply INTIMADITION. ”
As has been pointed out if it is INTIMIDATION then it’s spectacularly stupid INTIMIDATION as people can fuck you over easily if you don’t like it.
“What about the time Sinn Fein ensured the polling station was kept open so that all it’s voters were able to vote. Are peoples memories that short.”
Yeah, how dare they try to ensure the will of the people was heard! I’m sure that by keeping the poll open other non SF voters in the queue also got their say.
What is about SF that sends otherwise normal people mad?
kensei: “…SF do not intimidate anyone into voting for them…”
Complete the following sentance.
SF voters are …….
A) In denial
B) Naive
C) Dangerous
D) Disingenuous
…or all of the above?
Clear “evidence” of the SF, sham feigned sincerity.
So then – parties that intimidate voters and parties that include members who vote multiple times are going to be in an Assembly which will legislate for the common good.
“Complete the following sentance.
SF voters are …….
A) In denial
B) Naive
C) Dangerous
D) Disingenuous
…or all of the above?
Clear “evidence” of the SF, sham feigned sincerity. ”
None of the above. Man, it would be so much easier if SF idn’t have a mandate, wouldn’t it?
I have no idea what the last sentence is on about.
Will SF ever face up to the truth? Or are we destined to carry them round our necks like a dead weight… Wake up and smell the coffee kensei…
What an amzing trick, nakita. ou have managed to use two whole sentences, and yet say nothing at all.
oh dear.
when will people realise that the all of the parties in the north and south get votes because the people who vote for them want to.
the electorate make a decision and action that decision in a secret ballot.
there is no secret mass fraud that goes on that explains why such a large pecentage of people vote for parties that “others” find so abhorrent. Be they DUP, SF, FF etc etc.
kensei, you support a party that murdered its own countrymen, (something nobody is mandated to do!) That’s treason. SF represents the arse-end of Irish politics so how is a debate possible with you? You are blinkered in the extreme. Your dribble on here is straight from the SF spin machine which only hampers the possibility of any true debate. Any inside news of when the next u-turn is going to happen?
“kensei, you support a party that murdered its own countrymen, (something nobody is mandated to do!) That’s treason.”
I vote for a party that has moved away from violence and is looking to shape a better future.
I am not entirely comfortable with reducing something as complicated as Troubles to “treason”, either. This word keeps popping up here, and I’ve never seen it much outside this thread. Definately something suspicious going on here.
“SF represents the arse-end of Irish politics so how is a debate possible with you? You are blinkered in the extreme. Your dribble on here is straight from the SF spin machine which only hampers the possibility of any true debate. Any inside news of when the next u-turn is going to happen?”
Again, you are confused. I have no affliation to SF other than I feel that right this second, they best represent my interests, and are closest to my own views. Happy to take issue with over their stance on Europe, or a number of other issues. But they are electorally successful because the position they represent is close to a lot of people.
Anyway, I have patiently engaged with the limited debate that has went on here. I am not the one styarting from conclusions and working backwards either, as so neatly illustrated in your last post.
The absurd demonization of Sinn Féin is certainly a case of’deja vu’. Throughout the last century, every time Sinn Féin or Irish Republicanism is on the rise or politically or militarily, the usual media outlets and their cronies in the FF/FG/Labour establishment act like little orange supremacists or Paisleyite hillbillies.
Incidentally, if SF are in a position to make or break the next government, the party must not contaminate itself by collaborating with the corrupt conservatives in Dáil Eireann.
Kensei
What is it about SF that sends otherwise normal people mad?
I’d guess bomb under car that sort of thing.
Believe me when I say I have seen gross abuse of the system and from whatever quarter it just isn’t acceptable.
if SF are in a position to make or break the next government, the party must not contaminate itself by collaborating with the corrupt conservatives in Dáil Eireann
Agreed Ciaran
Short term advantage should never take away from long term goals
All of this nonsense about Sinn Féin being involved in electoral fraud is just that, nonsense!!
They brought in draconian electoral laws at the beheast of the stoops and the UUP in the hope that it would stop Sinn Féin.
It didn’t and the reason why it didn’t work is because Sinn Féin are not involved in electoral fraud.
“Long term goals”, Chris. Yer right. That’s what its all about. No matter what the game is, ya got to keep yer eye on the ball. The ability to see beyond the next election and beyond the last atrocity, is essential. Seems like some in Sinn Féin and and some brits (perhaps) are more enlightened and se the big picture. Unionists are unable to see the big picture. The only question is, will the Irish republican/nationalist constituency have the patience to wait for unionists to see the woods from the trees.
“I’d guess bomb under car that sort of thing.”
Are you aware of the IRA sticking any bombs under cars since the ceasefire? If so, you should talk to the authorities immediately.
Isn’t it ironic that the many posts on this thread is about alleged electoral “malpractice” or downright “intimidation” (depending on how much of a republican hater they are) in New Ross. Meanwhile, the Paisleyite who is charged and convicted of electoral cheating, vote rigging, call it what you like, is barely given a mention. What’s up with that??
Ciaran
the Paisleyite who is charged and convicted of electoral cheating, vote rigging, call it what you like, is barely given a mention. What’s up with that??
Ohh come on; entries like that below seem clear enough to me. The bloke should resign or be told to get out. It wasn’t even open to other consideration in my mind.
Stewart should resign before it gets any more shameful and Coleraine Council should co-opt the runner-up and reverse the fraud.
Would seem a fair way to go.
As for intimidation and malpractice open your eyes. If its not in your area your fortunate and it is not just SF. It is about the conduct of SF the DUP and all the rest. But SF have a reputation and it has some justification.
To Crataegus
Just because Sinn Fein supporters INTIMIDATE voters doen’t mean to say that every one else is doing the same thing.
Here we go again the same old republican ‘blamegame’ game. Just because SF have been caught doing it then every one else has to be doing the same as SF are doing.
People are sick, sore and tired of listening to that old record. As a Catholic and Nationalist I have never seen the SDLP INTIMIDATE any one, but SF supporters intimidate SDLP candidates and their workers, but If it was the SDLP intimidating SF candidates and their workers SF would be running squealing like little piggys to tell Hain that The SDLP were violating Sinn Feins Human Rights. Cut the sh1t Crataegus
Catnat
Try (14) 10.02pm above if you think I support SF
If you actually read what I wrote “SF have a reputation and it has some justification.”
In other words no smoke without fire. I have absolutely no doubt that SF in some (perhaps many) areas have behaved in a manner that is unacceptable. It is why earlier in the thread I suggested that we reduce the number of observers at pooling stations etc etc etc
Helps to read before you write.
BUT
intimidation and malpractice
What I was writing was not just about intimidation and I have seen behaviour that I thought vile from people in parties other than SF. Have to be fair.
New Yorker
So – are you talking about the DUP, SF, or both?
SF may win seats in the Dail or on councils in the Republic based on the ballot box .
But intimidation of any sort will lose them votes and seats .
The Irish Republic is not Northern Ireland . Northern SF activists may need to have that fact of life stamped on their foreheads before they go vote seeking in the republic . What works in NI in ‘non politics’ will not work in the atmosphere of ‘real politics ‘ in the Republic.
Andy,
I’m talking about both.
Greenflag, you obviously know nothing of politics in the 26 counties! Have you ever witnessed the FF election machine in action?!!
For those of you who have allowed yourselves to be socialised into believing SF conduct in NI elections is justification that they are intrinsically evil:- It has long since been an observation of post colonial societies (in this case Ireland) that a certain laxness with regards rules, regulations etc is a defining feature. This is the soundest critique of 26 county politics and the many and various examples I could give, from raw, strong arm electioneering to the ambivilence to financial impropriety. In the south SF are often seen on the doorsteps as whiter than white in comparison to some southern parties apparent corruption. That is the appeal to those who leave the old civil war voting patterns.
No, this doesn’t really offer a satisfactory crutch to those that love to see SF as some kind of evil juggernaut. But truth never was the friend of prejudice!
As I said before, people should read the link before making thier posts, and perhaps do a bit of broader reading in general (or, for some, learn to read a few other words than “Sinn Fein” and “evil”) but again that may be inconvenient to those hoping to validate thier own prejudices on an internet blog.
If yoda was here I’m sure he would agree: lies lead to fear, fear leads to hate, hate leads to people going mental in slugger and never wanting to believe thier adverseries are anything but evil!
‘Have you ever witnessed the FF election machine in action?!! ‘
I’ve even seen ‘fisticuffs’ at a selection convention but that was’nt evil just high spirits emanating from too much spirits . But so far I’ve have never seen any attempt by any party or parties to intimidate voters . 60 years ago I’m sure it was not unknown . We’ve ‘matured ‘ as a democracy . NI is not yet and in my view in it’s present format will never become a ‘normal’ democracy . As SF has ‘evolved ‘ mostly under NI conditions it’s not surprising that what might pass for ‘rough and tumble ‘ on the NI hustings is not transferable to ROI conditions .
PS , I’m not saying SF is an evil ‘juggernaut ‘. They are what you would or should expect in a semi post colonial society . That goes for the DUP too . We in the Republic are just 80 years further along the post colonial road and this is something which SF needs to keep in mind when they go electioneering .
Here’s another clue -There’s no DUP in the Republic , no OO marching the streets and any FP’s we have stick strictly to the pulpit and leave politics to politicians. Also we have a private sector dominated economy and we don’t expect the British Government or the English taxpayer to wipe our arses for us and keep paying through the nose so our politicians can continue to sit on their arses and get paid for it !
But Sinn féin’s election machine is par excellence, and without equal. Moreover, national opinion polls merely lull those who are immersed in the conservative status quo of southern politics. This is SF’s chance to show that the project advocated by the current leadership is alive and evolving.
The controversy has presented those Dail aspirants a fair wind, as the crooked cronies in FF and inept Labour implode.
If we do not see statistically significant progress in the SF vote come the next southern elections, then the current leadership need to resign and Republican Plan B needs to be put back in operation, pronto!
Ciaran
What is Repulican Plan B?
Chris, – I assume that you accept the premise that the “republican” family is not a monolithic ‘organization’. Thus you must know that many republicans who disagree with the the project currently pursued by the mainstream leadership of Irish Republicanism have a reaqdy made “plan B”. Take a look at the History book,Chris. What’s changed? Plan B is the alternative to political struggle. It will cost votes, but shit happens. There will be plenty of other chances to engage in political theatres.
‘Plan B is the alternative to political struggle. It will cost votes, but shit happens.’
The Irish people North and South /Republican and Nationalist have voted for no more shit ! And so have the Unionists .
In the event of your plan B there will be a Plan C . Plan C will be filling Portlaoise again with gobshites who think ‘shit’ is an option !
‘If we do not see statistically significant progress in the SF vote come the next southern elections’
This will mean that the vast majority of the Irish people reject SF’s economic and political policies at this time .
Get real CD !
If you want a UI that badly start breeding . But get a move on lad or it’ll be a United Poland or United China ye’ll be joining !
Amadan !
I assume that you accept the premise that the “republican” family is not a monolithic ‘organization’
It depends what you mean by Republican family.
Thus you must know that many republicans who disagree with the the project currently pursued by the mainstream leadership of Irish Republicanism have a reaqdy made “plan B”.
What I do know is that many “Republicans” who disagree with the Sinn Féin peace strategy have no plan a, plan b or plan c.
A lot of them should not be trusted with turning on a light switch never mind advancing the cause of liberation.
They seem much happier crying from the sidelines, less effort involved that way. They have yet to present any kind of alternative.
It is very easy to be a “hardline Republican traditionalist”, you don’t have to do anything or take any risks.
Take a look at the History book,Chris
I am very well informed on Irish history but thanks for the suggestion.
Plan B is the alternative to political struggle.
Then Plan B is not realistic
It will cost votes, but shit happens
If you are advocating armed struggle, which you seem to be, then I would suggest you think again. Armed struggle will cost a lot more than votes, it will cost lives!
Lives which I do not believe have to be taken in order to achieve Unity.
“If we do not see statistically significant progress in the SF vote come the next southern elections, then the current leadership need to resign and Republican Plan B needs to be put back in operation, pronto!”
In other words, vote for us, or prepare to die muthafuckers!
The shinners are taking the hump at being accuced of INTIMADATION now they are accusing British army helicopters of INTIMADATION.Back to
************ THE ‘BLAMEGAME’ AGAIN.************
see below for details Irish News 30/09/2006
SINN Fein has claimed the residents of a Co Derry village are being intimidated by British army helicopters
Thats the kettle calling the pot black, isn’t it.Thats a bit rich coming frpm the shinners who know all about INTIMADATION. Lets put it this way I would rather be Intimadated by British army helicopters ather be by than the shinners.
Hope to see all the little Angelic Shinners back at work by the 24th November 2006 or Uncle Peter is going to put them all on the dole.
NEWS hERADLINE – 25th November 20
DHSS staff walk out due to INTIMADATION from newly unemployed SF MLA’s.
Isn’t it past your bedtime?
Greengflag is spot on about Irelandstan. Although I have no problems with Poles and East Europeans, the Africans and Chinese should be spent packing with massive round ups and confiscation of their Triad funded businesses. I see some jihadist is selling Halal fopod in Talbot Street, directly where Sean Tracey was gunned down durting the Tan war. Treacy and the otehrs did not die so a gang of illegal Traids could rule the roost.
It is also nauseating to see Africans on RTE demanding their rights. They came here illegally and should have no rights at all. Two thirds of the South’s population growth is now by foreigners.
The Asian invasion just shows what a crock of shit the armed struggle was. Winners (Chinese, politicians, Africans), losers (ordinary Irish). Of course, Sinn Fein, like other spongers, thrives on this. Crime, criminals and illegal aliens suits them. A new flag to milk.
I always find it laughably ironic to hear Irish complaining about immigration…
Good on you Plan B. Does anyone really give a toss that there is a Triad funded business trading on the spot Sean Tracey was gunned down. Ireland will be no longer be for Irishmen, Just as England will no longer be for Englishmen. It won’t be long before you see a forigner as Taoiseach or Prime Minister. It’s only a matter of time before this happens. This is progress forced upon us by the EEC. What will our nationationality be when this happens or will this be covered in Plan B. Wonder what nationality awaits us when the 32 counties ever unite. Maybe the Shinners could answer this as they are supposed to be a forward thinking party.
There are still plenty of fine Englishmen – you can see it in their football and cricket teams. Great Englishmen like Ashley Cole, Rio Ferdinand, Aaron Lennon, Monty Panesar and Sajid Mahmood.
The EEC?! Give me strength! Here’s some news for you – its no longer called the Free State, the Soviet Union, Persia, Ceylon, or the EEC. Now stop ‘INTIMADATING’ the black fellas and leave the chinks be, immigration will add to the rich tapestry of Irish life. Who knows, you might even win a few Olympic medals out of it.
To The World’s Gone Mad
Your posting above is TOTAL CRAP.
I take it that you posting was meant in reply to glassbottle.
Look at what he/she says and you would see the logic in what he/she says.
Technically speaking member countries may have their own governments, but it’s the EEC that pull the strings. Just look at all rhe stupid rules & regulations they are forcing on member countries, and if the member countries don’t comply they are hit with whooping fines.
Plan B , Glassbottle ,
In case either of you assume that I’m anti immigration or anti African and Asian immigrants or anti East European let me assure you I’m not .
I’m for sensible ‘immigration ‘ control.
Those who presume that because one or a few Chinese or African or Polish immigrants are found to be a criminal then they all are , are seriously deficient in the frontal lobe region of the skull !
I would agree that immigrants who are convicted of serious crimes e.g drug trafficking , murder etc (not speeding fines) should be deported regardless of their country of origin. We have enough of our ‘own ‘ criminals .
Looper,
The EU is going to have to ‘wise up’ to some kind of immigration control/guidelines / The single market idea is still a winner for everybody but politically you can’t have 10 million Poles or 2 million Bulgarians and 5 million Romanians moving en masse to say Ireland , Denmark or Austria/Holland /Belgium etc without causing major political upheavals in those countries which would be inimical to the long term future of the EU .
Common sense has to take precedence over the political ideal of a free labour market in the EU . Immigration yes -uncontrolled immigration no would be the consensus view of most europeans in my view.
“The EU is going to have to ‘wise up’ to some kind of immigration control/guidelines / The single market idea is still a winner for everybody but politically you can’t have 10 million Poles or 2 million Bulgarians and 5 million Romanians moving en masse to say Ireland , Denmark or Austria/Holland /Belgium etc without causing major political upheavals in those countries which would be inimical to the long term future of the EU .”
Yes. Becuase those sorts of figures are likely scenarios.
Obviously Ireland cannot sustain unlimited immigration. Our policy however, should be generous considering the number of Irish people spread all over the world. We can go a bit further before hitting any trouble, and by no means all of the arrivals will be here permanently.
Actually Looper, Glassbottle’s post had little to do with the ‘EEC’ pulling the strings, and much more to do with the insiduous growth of foreigners taking over the country. By the way, the ‘EEC’ hasn’t been in existence for 14 years.
Glassbottle, Looper, or PlanB – ever ordered a Chinese take-away, eaten in an Indian restaurant or had a kebab on the way home from the pub? Ever bought a U2 album or sung along to ‘The Boys Are Back in Town’? Ever cheered on Paul McGrath?
Immigrants enrich a society and you better get used to it – the price you pay for a successful economy is that people want to move to your country. A thriving economy needs an injection of new blood to sustain the growth – from bankers, doctors and nurses to the invisible people who clean the offices in the dead of night, migrants play an important role in society.
In my experience of living in cities with large-scale immigration (London, Sydney), the first generation immigrants from poorer countries will mainly be involved in the low-paid, menial sector, but far from taking British jobs they will do the jobs that the local population either cannot or will not do e.g. cleaners, working in the restaurant business. However, most of them work damn hard to make a success of their lives, and the second and third generations of these families have the opportunities to go to university, become professionals, pay a large amount in taxes etc.
Of course immigration doesn’t produce utopia, and there are plenty of examples of disaffected alienated people from migrant familes such as a secion of the Muslim population in the north of England. However, this is symptomatic of the poverty of these areas and there are plenty of disaffected whites as well. There may also be a small ‘criminal element’ in an immigrant community, and a few spongers. But is that any different to the white indigineous community?
Don’t worry, Ireland will still be for the Irish, there will just be a few more non-Celts who will call themselves Irish. Treating ‘foreigners’ with disdain and suspicion will not improve things – its time to act with a bit more maturity and deal with the situation in a rational way.
“When you hand your polling card in the clerk then puts your polling number in pencil on your voting paper after your documentation is checked. Thats not privacy.”
Does this happen in Northern Ireland?
Don’t like that one bit. Very dodgy.
Simple rule of electioneering hand over polling card clerk then highlights your voter identity number.Its used to prevent electrol fraud because the electrol clerks can go back to it if someone attempts to use that vote twice.
“”When you hand your polling card in the clerk then puts your polling number in pencil on your voting paper after your documentation is checked. Thats not privacy.”
Does this happen in Northern Ireland?”
Not from my memory. I think that the polling cards have unique identifiers to prevent forgery, but these are not linked to the person voting.
“”When you hand your polling card in the clerk then puts your polling number in pencil on your voting paper after your documentation is checked. Thats not privacy.”
You polling card(holding your name etc) is “cross referenced” to your voting paper
You vote TAKES PLACE in private.
Your voting paper is processed.
If however you can get a completed voting paper,it is a simple matter to reference back to the voters details on poll clerks list and establish how that individual voted.
The 64000 dollar question
What happens the voting papers after the count?
Barnshee
The 64000 dollar question
What happens the voting papers after the count?
Exactly! This has always bothered me. I would be very easy to take the few votes cast for the Communist Party, Socialists, Greens or whatever the established view regarded as threatening to ascertain who had such sympathies. Indeed I would be amazed if this does not happen. There really is no other need for tracing an individual vote back. It stinks.