Euro qualifier action
The four home nations and the Republic of Ireland all see action today. So far it seems like a day for goal feasts. Northern Ireland were deservedly beaten 3-0 by Iceland. Scotland hammered the Faroe Islands 6-0. England stomped Andorra 5-0. Wales lost 2-1 to the Czech Republic and the RoI lost 1-0 to Germany.It was a return to the bad old days for Northern Ireland. During the McIlroy era, the defence had a habit of falling apart if the opposition scored in the first 20 minutes of a half, and history repeated itself when the Icelanders scored in the 13th minute and two more in the first half. Tony Capaldi, who dropped defensive clangers in the Finland game, carried on in the same form today. The Iceland attack quickly realised they had the beating of him and took full advantage down the left-hand side with the 3-0 scoreline at half-time almost a disappointment for them. In the second half, Northern Ireland put together a more attacking game but this had much to do with Iceland sitting back on their comfortable lead. Healy did hit the net but was disallowed because of a prior foul by Elliott. Just as poor as Capaldi was Quinn. There is little point of having a big man to control and hold up the ball and win it in the air if he singularly fails to do either nor seems to have heard of the concept of running. Playing long, high balls against a team whose average height is about 4 inches taller than your team seems pointless too although the water-logged pitch offers some excuse for not playing it on the floor. The only ray of hope was the hardworking midfield performances of Clingan, Gillespie, Elliott and Davis. Sanchez has his work cut out before the more daunting task of Spain on Wednesday. Capaldi and Quinn need some of this stuff.
I hope you enjoy the game and the occassion Globetrotter.
You’ll hear some chant “No Surrender” in total disrespect of our National Anthem.
You’ll hear “Stand Up For The Ulstermen” and “Ulster Til I Die”
You might hear a few individuals make a sectarian comment.
You might even hear others telling them to “shut to fcuk up”.
You’ll see a few Union Flags.
You’ll see quite a few Northern Ireland flags.
You’ll see loads of green and white.
And you’ll probably see a heavy defeat for Northern Ireland – a team represented by players from across the political and religious divide.
Fantastic sales pitch, there.
Just telling it as it is kensei.
Do you think this Irishman and his family might have felt a tad intimidated had we of strayed in Stuttgart town city on Saturday afternoon?
“one UJ is one too many”
That’s like saying that the irish flag shouldn’t be flown at ireland matches. Northern Ireland is part of the UK, like it or not… just check the map if you don’t believe it.
Globetrotter,
Be sure to get there early – security is going to be a bit tighter than usual. A few issues with alcohol being smuggled into the ground on Saturday unfortunately.
You’ll get to see UEFA presenting our ” Best Fans In Europe” award too.
“Do you think this Irishman and his family might have felt a tad intimidated had we of strayed in Stuttgart town city on Saturday afternoon?”
Probably, but then again you wouldn’t be wearing your Irish hat, and I still doubt you’d have got a particularly hostile reaction if you dandered around plastere din the Union Jack.
We do need to clamp down on it anyway, but then again it’s not our fault everyone hates you……..
“but then again it’s not our fault everyone hates you……..”
The words of a, so called, United Irelander.
Deary me. Mask slipping.
And he expects me to support a “united” Ireland team!
“The words of a, so called, United Irelander.
Deary me. Mask slipping.
And he expects me to support a “united” Ireland team! ”
Oh get a grip, it’s just a wee joke at the fact the “Brits” have a long list of enemies, though it is more directed towards England in football.
And if you had a United Ireland team, absolutely no one would hate you.
kensei,
“it’s just a wee joke”
Oh, righty ho then.
Whenever folk sing “We hate The IRA”, it’s only a wee joke too.
“And if you had a United Ireland team, absolutely no one would hate you”
Ahhh, isn’t that sweet. Nothing beats unconditional love.
“We do need to clamp down on it anyway”
Aye – it seems you’ve a bit of work to do.
Why not get on with that instead of constantly berating Northern Ireland fans eh?
We’ll get on with our work too.
PS: I’m still waiting on your history lesson about “Partitionist FA”.
Satire died when they gave Henry Kissinger the Nobel Peace Prize.
Something tells me that Realist and Kensei thrive on this mutual and tedious antipathy towards opposing fans rather than concentrating on the respective teams that they profess to support.
Their boring and puerile exchanges suggest that they spend more time trying to undermine the reputation of the other team’s supporters as borne out by Realist using the arrest of one Irish fan from a travelling support of 12,000 to denounce the irish support en masse as Nazi sympathers.
Equally Kensei should accept that the NI support have got rid of a vast number of the lunatic fringe.I know and like many NI fans all of whom are decent and non-sectarian and who have been to the fore in improving the reputation of the fans. NI fans richly deserve tomorrow’s night’s award.
Personally I think that both sets of supporters deserve better than the players currently representing them out on the pitch.
The results from the weekend Euro 2008 qualifying football results have raised once again the big question of whether or not there should be a pre-qualifying round, to let all the minnows play and eliminate most of each other before the big boys start playing.
I say this should happen, for several reasons:
1. It would eliminate all of these high score games between the minnows and bigger boys. Under the present set-up even Scotland get to win 6-0. These games are essentially meaningless, and really only have the benefit of helping provide goal differences to act as a tie-breaker to sort out those who end up close to eventual qualifying.
2. If say 2 minnows were removed from each group in the UEFA qualifying it would mean 4 fewer games for each of the big boys. This would give players from the big countries the benefit of not having to play international qualifying games as early each season as they do. There are always complaints about top players having to play too many games. Well here’s a way to cut a few games from the schedule, especially early in the season.
3. With fewer competitive qualifying games, the big countries could use say 2 of the saved games to seek friendly matches against non-European countries. Most teams need more practice against countries from outside Europe, to see how they match up against different styles. What they don’t need is having to play the likes of Andorra and the Faroe Isles just for the sake of it.
Here’s the harpo proposal:
There are 52 teams in Europe at present, and UEFA needs to weed that down to usually 14 or 15 teams who have to qualify for a tournament. Let’s say it’s 14 out of the 52, as it is for Euro 2008. There are 2 hosts, so that’s only 50 countries that have to play in qualifiers.
The current set-up is 6 groups of 7 and 1 group of 8. This should be changed to 7 groups of 5 in the main qualifying tournament. So let’s make it 4 teams who go straight into each of the 7 groups, plus 1 minnow into each group from the pre-qualifying round.
Thus 28 teams go straight into the main qualifying. The other 22 teams go into the pre-qualifying round. Those 22 teams play down on some basis – knockout or group format – to provide the 7 minnows that go into the groups in the main qualifying draw.
Results:
The big boys only play 8 instead of 12 qualifying games (assuming an original 7 team group), and there will be only 1 minnow in each of the main qualifying groups.
Unfair to the minnows? I don’t think so, since the best of them will make it into the main qualifying round anyway.
A form of this system is already being used at the UEFA U-21 level. Northern Ireland had to play in the pre-qualifying round of that tournament, and actually made it through.
What would happen to NI if my system was instituted at the full international level? Who knows given their usual recent form. Some may say it would be unfair if they were upset by some smaller minnow, but if they couldn’t beat someone like an Andorra in pre-qualifying, who could argue that they deserved to make it into the main qualifying round?
NI are a minnow at present and it might just take such a process to make them improve to the point where they can be consistent enough to easily dispose of the smaller minnows.
‘Any continental team, including Andorra, has more natural skill than British/Irish players.That’s why we struggle against them.’
Patrique:
Nonsense.
This assumption that just because you are born on the continent means that you have more natural (as opposed to learned) skill is the oldest of old football myths.
Has any Andorra player ever had the natural skill of a George Best?
The reason that NI is currently struggling is that NI have few decent, never mind good, great or world class players.
You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.
The current situation is that gone are the days of having a Danny Blanchflower in the team – ie one of the game’s greats. Or even a squad of decent players as they had in the 80s.
The problem is that many NI fans retain memories of those days – qualifying for World Cups – and expect exactly the same from what is currently a mediocre squad. That isn’t realistic for a small place like NI. It’s only going to be once every couple of generations that the luck of a few births produces a couple of good players or a lot of decent ones at the same time.
I mean be realistic – look down the NI squad list. How does anyone expect them to compete with the big boys on a regular basis? On a man for man basis they are a 5th rate squad, and that’s why they are a 5th seed in Europe. How many players do the have in the EPL or any of the other top leagues? Four isn’t it?
You can see that they are mediocre by the results they produce. Once in a while they play out of their skins and beat England at home, or draw with Portugal at home, yet can within a year lose 3-0 to Iceland at home too. The spectacular successes come because of pride.
They are a typical mediocre team. They have no consistency. They can give the big boys a good game, but then keep on coming a cropper against teams that they think they are better than – Iceland, Canada, Malta, Armenia.
The truth is that NI aren’t that good a team, and certainly no better then those teams listed. That’s why NI has been wallowing in the 70 to 120 range in the FIFA rankings for the last few years. NI fans may think that NI are a top 40 team (or whatever it is that they do think) but at present never mind Brazil, NI aren’t even a Ghana (number 25) or a Guatemala (number 50).
I know that much of football depends on eternal hope, but that’s all NI fans have at present. They are a 5th seed in Europe, and all that that means in terms of qualifying is that NI are expected to come 5th in a group of 7 or 8. Coming 3rd would be great success, fourth decent success, and lower than 5th a disaster. Given Saturday’s result NI is looking at a disaster.
But NI fans will look ahead to Spain with the same old eternal hope that they are in that league and can beat Spain. Maybe they will, but if they do it won’t be on talent level – it will yet another spectacular performance from players who do much better than they should.
“Oh, righty ho then.”
Get a sense of humour transplant.
“Whenever folk sing “We hate The IRA”, it’s only a wee joke too.”
Not quite the same.
“Why not get on with that instead of constantly berating Northern Ireland fans eh?”
Because they keep telling us how great they are, and we still have nowhere like the same problems. Sadly I fear it will take more than having a pop at the Brits by away fans to actually do something.
“PS: I’m still waiting on your history lesson about “Partitionist FA”.”
Unfortunately, I have a life and limited time, I will get round to it.
“Something tells me that Realist and Kensei thrive on this mutual and tedious antipathy towards opposing fans rather than concentrating on the respective teams that they profess to support.”
Of course. This is football. I don’t actually consider NI much when I don’t have other fans to wind up though.
“Equally Kensei should accept that the NI support have got rid of a vast number of the lunatic fringe.I know and like many NI fans all of whom are decent and non-sectarian and who have been to the fore in improving the reputation of the fans. NI fans richly deserve tomorrow’s night’s award.
Personally I think that both sets of supporters deserve better than the players currently representing them out on the pitch.”
I fully agree that NI has done a lot of work. That doesn’t change the reality of more needing done, and it needing to prove it over a longer timescale.
George Best, Peter Doherty, Blanchflower,Tully, McAlinden, Jimmy McIlroy, et al all came along before Britain/Ireland was given over to coaching kids, which means defenders are told “get rid of it” and forwards are told to defend. Social change means there is little street football, which also affects Scotland, as we no longer have Willie Hendersons, Jimmy Johnstons, Charlie Cookes, Slim Jim and a host of others.
England has one great player, Rooney, ande a host of “runners” like Gerrard. But we all know the Ethiopians are the best runners. England used to have Le Tissier, Hudson, Worthington, Hoddle, Currie, Osgood et al. Mind you, they rarely picked any of them, as “footballers” are frowned upon in England. Let’s face it, Ronaldinho wouldn’t get on a premiership team because the crowd would never give over because he doesn’t tackle back, and defend.
It is a different culture. I like to watch people who can do things I can’t. Six months training and I would be better than Lampard and Gerrard and that crowd. But Rooney has a talent, even if he is a wing nut.
I was at the Northern Ireland game on Saturday, i haven’t been to a game for several years and was shocked at the loutish behaviour before and during the game.I passed a large crowd of fans at the top of Tate’s Avenue who were singing ‘the billy boys’ and other sectarian tunes, many of these fans were very drunk and were abusing passing motorists.Many fans were openly drinking from glass drink bottles inside the ground (eventhough they are banned) and i honestly found the whole experience quite volitile and uncomfortable.
While reading through a thread on the OWC site i noticed the following comment and just thought it summed up my experience of the game last saturday, bad enough getting beat 3-0 without all this sh*t.
“A sickening day all round. All the good work destroyed in a matter of minutes. Best fans in Europe? Next person we say that to will say “you’re having a laugh.”
“Cries of “no surrender,” bigots mouthing off all around with no actions from the stewards, druken louts everywhere, ineffective stewarding, the half time music selection with one song well known for it’s sectarian use, the behaviour in Tates Avenue, the religious leaflets obviously authorised by the IFA etc etc. Jim Rainey and Michael Boyd must be feeling sick, fed up and ready to give uptoday.”
“Their boring and puerile exchanges suggest that they spend more time trying to undermine the reputation of the other team’s supporters as borne out by Realist using the arrest of one Irish fan from a travelling support of 12,000 to denounce the irish support en masse as Nazi sympathers”
Give it a Rest,
On the contrary, I highlighted the fact to demonstrate that a few rotten eggs does NOT mean that a whole fanbase, en masse, should be labelled.
I would point out that I’ll be joined tonight at Windsor Park by an avid ROI fan who travelled to Germany at the weekend. I don’t believe him to be a “Nazi”.
If you don’t like the debate, ignore it.
ernegreen,
Interesting that you find these issues openly debated on the OWC website.
Did you notice any Northern Ireland fan, on the very lengthy thread of “gripes” about Saturday on OWC, condone what was highlighted?
Is it fair to say they were very angry?
Did you notice the posts identifying seat numbers of offenders to be forwarded to the IFA?
Some of the issues highlighted will be improved upon this evening – noteably the issue of drunkeness and alcohol being brought into the ground.
Stewarding is a major issue inside the stadium that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later. Put simply, they are not doing their job effectively.
Matters away from Windsor Park are the concern of the PSNI.
Would you not agree that the atmosphere in the ground on Saturday was a vast improvement overall that what you experienced “several years” ago?
Other than the bastardisation of our National Anthem by some, did you hear any sectarian chanting inside the ground – eg, the aforementioned “Billy Boys”?
kensei,
“Get a sense of humour transplant”
I enjoy a very good sense of humour, thanks.
“Not quite the same”
You’d have no problems with chants of “Stand Up If You Hate The Provos” then?
“Because they keep telling us how great they are”
UEFA?
“Unfortunately, I have a life and limited time, I will get round to it”
I’ll be waiting.
“I fully agree that NI has done a lot of work”
Good man – that’s stating the obvious.
“That doesn’t change the reality of more needing done”
Absolutely correct. “Work In Progress”.
“and it needing to prove it over a longer timescale”
“Prove” to who exactly?
““Prove” to who exactly?”
Oh, I dunno, all the people you offended while you were issuing death threats? Not everyone would buy it in a short space of time.
kensei,
“Oh, I dunno, all the people you offended while you were issuing death threats? Not everyone would buy it in a short space of time.”
That’s out of order.
I have never issued a death threat to anyone. I have never abused any Northern Ireland player in my life.
I utterly and unequivocally condemn such things.
Whatsmore, do you know the identity of the person(s) who issued a death threat to one of our players?
If you do, can I suggest you forward the information to the PSNI.
If not, I would suggest you cease making assertions.
Northern Ireland fans are not in the busines of “proving” anything to anyone.
ernegreen,
You might be interested in this post by an ROI supporter in Germany on Saturday, which appeared on foot.ie
“There’s definitely been a change in the general make up in the contingent of Irish support at away games over the last few years, particularly at the ‘popular venues’ Paris, Amsterdam and last weekend in Stuttgart.
IMO, quite worryingly, there appears to be an increase in the ‘yob’ element at these venues. There’s nothing wrong with having a few beers, singing a few songs and generally having a good time, without resorting to the likes of what is mentioned above.( Pro PIRA chanting was being referred to) I’ve watched Ireland play abroad regularly for over 20 years and this is definitely a new phenomenon from which a lot of fans who have been following Ireland around for a few years don’t want to be associated with.
One further example of it happened last Saturday afternoon on the Konigstrasse where there were several street performers entertaining kids, shoppers and several Irish and German football fans. One of these was playing music and had a bowl in front of them for the coins, when two lads in Irish shirts, each carrying one of these plastic jugs of beer, barged their way through the 8 or 10 people who were watching this guy play and for no apparent reason kicked the bowl with the few coins to the other side of the street before running away towards the Stademitte station area. Pathetic and a total embarassment to themselves and anyone else in a green shirt”
It seems that while some try to clean up their act, things are “getting worse” elsewhere.
Thanks Realist.
At £35 a ticket it had better be a bloody good experience!!
Globetrotter,
“At £35 a ticket it had better be a bloody good experience!!”
Let’s hope so. I sincerely hope you enjoy it, and next time maybe purchase a block booking.
Here’s hoping for a decent performance.
“That’s out of order.
I have never issued a death threat to anyone. I have never abused any Northern Ireland player in my life.
I utterly and unequivocally condemn such things.”
The wonderful thing about “you” in English is taht it doubles as the plural.
“Whatsmore, do you know the identity of the person(s) who issued a death threat to one of our players?
If you do, can I suggest you forward the information to the PSNI.
If not, I would suggest you cease making assertions.”
What, he wasn’t an NI fan? In the cosmic sense, probably, but if you are suggesting it was some grand Republican conspiracy you are wired.
“Northern Ireland fans are not in the busines of “proving” anything to anyone. ”
Fair enough. They don’t complaining when you are greeting with a healthy scepticism on the changes made.
kensei,
“The wonderful thing about “you” in English is taht it doubles as the plural”
Who issued the death threat?
“What, he wasn’t an NI fan?”
I don’t know – do you?
“but if you are suggesting it was some grand Republican conspiracy you are wired”
I’m not suggesting anything. I don’t know who it was – do you?
Did you watch the programme about the Leeds Service Crew last night – jeezus, they’re a scary bunch of fellas.
Ever come across them on your travels?
“I’m not suggesting anything. I don’t know who it was – do you?”
Spurious point. Even if (s)he was a Congo fan, the death threat is linked with the NI team, it’s fans, and other unacceptable behaviour at the ground at the time. Whther that tallies with reality is largely irrelevant to the point I was making.
I would wager that given the make up of the support at the time, an NI “fan” would be high up of the list of suspects, though.
“Did you watch the programme about the Leeds Service Crew last night – jeezus, they’re a scary bunch of fellas.
Ever come across them on your travels? ”
No and no. And Leeds did a hell of a lot to get rid of their hooligan problems. And whataboutery won’t get you off the hook, either.
kensei,
“Spurious point. Even if (s)he was a Congo fan, the death threat is linked with the NI team, it’s fans, and other unacceptable behaviour at the ground at the time. Whther that tallies with reality is largely irrelevant to the point I was making”
The death threat was made to a Northern Ireland player by person(s) unknown.
You choose to twist that into “I would wager that given the make up of the support at the time, an NI “fan” would be high up of the list of suspects, though”.
Of couse, the player in question is not the only Northern Ireland player to have received a death threat. When those death threats eminate from elsewhere, allegedly the IRA, they tend to be forgotten by those like yourself.
Do you assume that these threats were made by ROI supporters?
http://www.theredcard.ie/news/2006/02/kerr-reveals-racists-targetted.html
“No and no. And Leeds did a hell of a lot to get rid of their hooligan problems”
What did they do?
They still exist tho, don’t they?
“And whataboutery won’t get you off the hook, either”
I’m not on the hook.
Merely exposing the rank hypocricy of people like you.
Has the penny dropped yet?
“The death threat was made to a Northern Ireland player by person(s) unknown.
You choose to twist that into “I would wager that given the make up of the support at the time, an NI “fan” would be high up of the list of suspects, though”.”
No, I am stating the fact that the commonly accepted view is that it was one of the nutters attending Windsor Park at the time, probably linked to loyalists. In this instance, perception is reality and that is why the IFA took action.
I am merely stating that changing people’s opinion takes time.
“Of couse, the player in question is not the only Northern Ireland player to have received a death threat. When those death threats eminate from elsewhere, allegedly the IRA, they tend to be forgotten by those like yourself.”
I was 12 when the first IRA ceasefire was called. I don’t think I’m old enough to remember.
“Do you assume that these threats were made by ROI supporters?”
No, but then again, we didn’t see the disgraceful behaviour inside Windsor Park at ROI matches.
“What did they do?”
Similar sort of stuff that most First Divison clubs did in England. Anti-racism campaigns, bans, community outreach etc. TV and the disapperance of stands probably helped.
“They still exist tho, don’t they?”
I am sure a very, very small minority exists, but Leeds do not have the reputation that they once had, a family could attend the club and their only major problem is that they are shite.
That took hard work and time.
“I’m not on the hook.”
Oh yes you are. Take responsibility for something for once.
“Merely exposing the rank hypocricy of people like you.
Has the penny dropped yet?”
I am not hypocritical. Happy to condemn stupid fuckers wherever they are.
kensei,
“No, I am stating the fact that the commonly accepted view is that it was one of the nutters attending Windsor Park at the time, probably linked to loyalists”
It may be a “commonly accepted view”, but there is no factual evidence to back the assertion up.
“In this instance, perception is reality and
that is why the IFA took action”
The IFA were already taking action prior to the death threat.
What exactly do you expect the IFA to do about a nutter unknown with 20p making a phonecall from a public phonebox?
“I was 12 when the first IRA ceasefire was called. I don’t think I’m old enough to remember.”
I was I lot older, and I do remember.
“No, but then again, we didn’t see the disgraceful behaviour inside Windsor Park at ROI matches”
Oh, right. So shall we base on discussions on tenious linkage then, when it’s suits your agenda?
“Similar sort of stuff that most First Divison clubs did in England. Anti-racism campaigns, bans, community outreach etc.”
And the IFA have done nothing of this nature?
“I am sure a very, very small minority exists, but Leeds do not have the reputation that they once had”
http://www.hooligandvds.net/product_info.php?products_id=39
http://www.network54.com/Forum/283664/
Still very active on their travels – West Yorkshire Police hinder their activities in Leeds.
Ever seen any reports of Northern Ireland fans being involved in football related violence?
“a family could attend the club and their only major problem is that they are shite”
Wow. I think our “family enclosure” is sold out for the Euros.
“Oh yes you are. Take responsibility for something for once.”
No, I’m not. What would you like me to take responsibility for?
“I am not hypocritical. Happy to condemn stupid fuckers wherever they are.”
Good.
Maybe the penny has dropped – at last!
Message to all 6 county fans.The best teams in the world are all Ketholics.Brasil, Argentina,
France,Spain,Portugal and Italy.All the rubbish ones are Orange.England,Scotland and NI.
So get supporting some new teams,at least you will see good footballers instead of the “windsor” park jokers.
God – this discussion really has reached a new low. Depressing.
“God – this discussion really has reached a new low. Depressing”
Indeed.
seaniee’s post reeks of the rancid stench of naked sectarianism.
Also devoid of knowledge on the basics, given the inverted commas around Windsor, and the lack of awareness around the metabolism of the “orange” teams mentioned.
Truly pathetic.
Now, now Realist-If the shoe was on the other foot you would be shouting ‘ troll’ and squealing for IP numbrs to be checked.
As you already well know, SeanniEe is clearly a troll.
How pathetic can you get?
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ…………..
Realist spends long enough on this site day in day out to easily spot trolling-if he wants to spot it, that is.
His averting of his eyes to ‘Ketholic Seanniee’s’ obvious trolling is pitiful in the extreme.
Realist’s desperate trawling to find dirt on the Irish national team’s fans has failed so miserably that he is now left to cling onto trolls as a means to persist in his jealousy and envy.
from trawling to trolling-how sad……….
Finding dirt on ROI fans is easy, half of them wear Scottish football jerseys. Not to be racist about this, but Celtic jerseys should be banned in Iteland, especially in GAA grounds. Being looking to get that off my chest for a while now.
Seanniee, turns out the Ketholics of Spain are not that good. Still, I suppose there is an exception to every rule. N.Ireland abú.
Harpo
“But NI fans will look ahead to Spain with the same old eternal hope that they are in that league and can beat Spain. Maybe they will, but if they do it won’t be on talent level – it will yet another spectacular performance from players who do much better than they should.”
You said it. 3:2.
1982 repeated!
give it a rest,
I hope you has as pleasant an evening as I did
Healy for a Knighthood.
Good night!