2 Arrested in Thomas Devlin murder hunt
Exactly a year to the day of his murder, Detectives have now arrested 2 men in connection with the murder of Thomas Devlin. UPDATE 2 people arrested in connection with the murder have been released.
Police had launched an Anniversary appeal last night, with fresh requests for people to come forward. There has always been unease about the nature of this killing with PSNI reluctant to label it sectarian. As late as yesterday, a sectarian motive was still being ‘considered’. Brian Rowan has maintained the murder was neither sectarian or planned. Thomas’s mother had these chilling words about the murder:
‘For the two people who killed him it was quite carefully planned. They had obviously taken a knife out with them and you don’t take a knife out unless you’re going to use it. Ms Holloway said no words were exchanged and the assailants did not even make an effort to start a fight as justification for what they were to do next. They just jumped on them from behind. One attacked one of his friends and the other went after Thomas. The intention was to have killed both of them.”
On a related note, I saw in the Times yesterday that the knife amnesty has had no impact, indeed recorded numbers of knife crimes have risen by 73%. Perhaps we need to focus again on the cause of crime and malcontent, while we still have time.
Anonymous
This is a thread about the arrest of 2 people in relation to the murder of Thomas Devlin.
Please abide by the Slugger rules, and your posts will remain for others to read.
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John Maynard
Rubbish!!
I have lived abroad for many years but continue to watch NI events keenly.
When I was growing up in NI both the RUC and BBC NI were very slow to label the murders of Catholics as sectarian (the RUC tried to say that McGurks bar was blown up by an IRA man making a bomb – this was only withdrawn because of overwhelming evidence proving that it was the UVF). It did not and still does not suit the Unionist agenda to highlight the sectarian murder of innocent Catholics – much better to try and perpetuate the myth that nearly all murders are committed by the IRA and that “Loyalist” activity is a response. It doesn’t do to point out that innocent Catholics are killed purely out of pure sectarian hatred.
I can certainly tell you that the murder of Robert McCartney got MUCH more publicity than that of Lisa Dorrian, MickyBo or Thomas Devlin because the UK govt and the Unionists wanted to use it to score political points over Sinn Fein. BBC NI hardly, if ever, mentioned Lisa Dorrian’s religion and really tried to portray her murder as not being related to her religion.
I unreservedly condemn ALL murders and anyone with any related information should give it to the authorities.
However, it sickens me to see the Media and political parties giving a lot more publicity to specific murders just because it suits their purposes.
Go do a content analysis and then get back to us with some hard evidence to prove your case, instead of the hearsay we’re being fed with. I can’t remember the Dorrian murder being described as ‘sectarian’ by anyone, for example.
Someone is asking why the Robert McCartney murder got so much publicity.
The reason is because of its political implications. McCartney was murdered by the Provisional movement which is poised to participate in the government of Northern Ireland if it can convince society that it has left its murderous past behind. Obviously the fact that they carried out this murder had very serious political implications.
The organisations or “movements” (if any) who murdered Thomas Devlin or “Mickey Bo” or Lisa Dorrian are not poised to participate in government, and therefore these murders do not have such immediate or significant political implications.
Isn’t that obvious? Or do people just enjoy trying to identify sectarian conspiracy theories?
While not disagreeing with everything Willowfield says, I think we need to consider that some families have launched justice campaigns, which use publicity, while others have chosen other routes.
They do so for their own reasons, but if victims’ families create news, it will get covered. Fact. If they prefer an alternative means of seeking justice, they won’t be in the news every day.
This is why it is unfair to compare the level of coverage certain murder cases have received. I doubt if the four local daily newspapers, the radio and TV stations haven’t covered each and every development in any of the murder cases mentioned. When public figures piggy-back on these campaigns or are criticised by them, these are usually newsworthy (the McCord/Ervine argument at the West Belfast Festival being the latest example) for different reasons, but the politicians can affect a story’s treatment to a degree.
It would be naive to think that each media outlet doesn’t apply its own values to a story (consciously or unconsciously), but I think people have very selective memories when it comes to these matters. Other factors, such as legal impositions, also contribute to the level of coverage.
On anonymous sources, well, you use your own judgment on that, whether reader or journalist. It’s a matter of trust, so you have to make your own mind up. You can’t be sure, but one word: ‘Watergate’.
Devlin and other appeals. Murder is murder but some murders and attempted murders appear to attract more media and other attention than others. Isn’t this unfair and cruel to the families and friends of the victims?
Belfast Gonzo
I assume that your comment about a content analysis is aimed at me.
1. Anyone (like me) who was around at the time of McGurks bar remembers what happened. The story is well documented – go to google or yahoo and put in McGurks bar – even someone with your journalistic skills should find it.
2. As I am based on the other side of the world and travel through Asia on business, I see how NI stories are portrayed over here (especially via the BBC). Therefore, I think that I can confidently say that I know a LOT more about the subject than you. The McCartney murder (as with all others) was disgraceful – however, my VALID point was that it got a hell of a lot more coverage than did the other murders that I mentioned.
3. So you never heard anyone describe Lisa Dorrian’s murder as sectrian – you should change your name to Mars Gonzo!!. From 13,000 miles away, I am aware that the LVF are widely believed to have been responsible – this claim has been made by leading figures in the Loyalist community. Let me see – the LVF murder a Catholic girl and dump her body – couldn’t possibly be a sectarian killing then.
I read a lot of things on this site that I disagree with but I’m usually pretty calm about it. However, your arrogant and dismissive tone is too much – it would be hard to take from a good journalist – and you certainly aren’t that.
Marcus
The simple fact of one person killing someone from another religious group does not neccesarily mean it is a sectarian killing. From the wide publicity of the Dorrian case, it was always clear that there was a drug party in progress, and the killing happened during/after that party. The fact that participants at the party were of differing religions means nothing.
As with Thomas Devlin. It was a palnned attack, but in the words of the detective, ‘sheer badness’.
Maturity in Northern Ireland on both sides will mean that we start to accept that in addition to them and us, there is a third element of evil that we have closed our eyes to for far too long and allowed to grow into a strong force in our society.
We must stop apportioning blame to the ‘other side’ and look into the type of world we are creating by doing this. Evil acts happen all over the world, and have nothing to do with religion. We need to recognise that here, and we may have some hope of helping ourselves to build a better society
As with Thomas Devlin. It was a planned attack, but in the words of the detective, ‘sheer badness’.
Miss Fitz
Perhaps the PSNI can explain why two loyalists from Mount Vernon, if they had ‘pure badness’ in mind, decided to walk all the way up to the (pre-dominantly Catholic) Somerton Road to carry out this attack (incidentally, outside a Catholic school and Church). Or was it just coincidence?
Dec
Tell me this. The other child in the group was a Protestant. If God forbid he had been killed, what would that have made it?
Although I dont live there, I know that area is very mixed, indeed it is also where the Synagogue is located.
I think that your argument underscores what I am trying to point out. We are so fixated on religion, we cant see evil in our midst.
Miss Fitz
The area where the attack took place is not very mixed. It is over-whelmingly catholic and is the location of 3 Catholic schools, a Catholic church and the residence of the Bishop of Down and Connor. The actual religion of the children can be irrelevant. It is the sometimes the perceived religion that matters.
We are so fixated on religion, we cant see evil in our midst.
I have no idea what point you are trying to make. Is the work of a sectarian killer any less evil than the work of a serial killer?
Dec
All I am saying is that when people fixate on the sectarian motive, we can stand back and say…. ‘Ah yes, what would you exepct, its the murderous fenians attacking us as they have done for centuries’ OR ‘Ah yes, what would you expect, it’s the murderous huns attacking us as they have done for decades, and depriving us of our religious and civil liberty’
All I’m saying is that its time to change the tune.
A young child buying sweets was brutally murdered in cold blood. Forget the whys, wherefores, connections, implications, godfathers and conduct a full and fair forensic examination of the scene.
Arrest the sons of bitches and take them off the street. This is thuggery and psychopathic behaviour masquerading as something else. Calling it sectarian almost glorifies it, or gives it purpose. That is what we need to deconstruct here, and call it like it is.
That this murder may be all you say it is Miss Fitz – it may also have been sectarian.
If the police are so sure that the murder wasn’t sectarian they must know a great deal about the motivations of the perpetrators. It seems strange then that it took so long for these arrests to occur.
Arrests were made shortly afterwards. Without witnesses and physical evidence, you are reliant on breaking suspects. And it seems that the police have been unable to do so in this case.
This is a distressing case all round. But not helped by people’s attempts at partisan point scoring, both on Slugger and in wider society.
I’m really not trying to make an issue over the motive, cant you see that?
I’m only trying to say that we have to see violence without green or orange glasses, we have to see it as violence. If we label it as sectarian in an easy fashion, we fail to see the underlying problems in society. We walk away too easily when we can lay blame, and that ultimately undermines law and order.
Miss Fitz
I think you have tried very hard to keep this thread on track.
The problem here is that a semantic arguement over sectarianism is clouding the real need to move to a normal society.
We seem to have at least 3 police forces at the moment.
PSNI1 Still running paramilitary informants and pursuing anti-terror agenda.
PSNI2 Attempting normal policing
Police Ombudsman Attempting to uncover the misdeeds of PSNI1
To be fair to PSNI2, When an area has been terrorised for 20+ Years by psychopaths (With or without PSNI1 help) even brave and decent people will think long and hard before coming forward.
The power of paramilitaries over their local area and hinterland must be broken. Sadly this requires a will on the part of politicians and the electorate which currently they do not possess.
Willis – I generally agree with your point. Our local politicians do not appear to be any better than the British or Irish governments in trying to tackle this problem. Trimble made this mistake in damning the agreement by faint praise through contaminating it with issues best left to criminal justice.
It’s rare you hear a politician asking what can be done to modify or change laws that can make the criminal justice system more effective. Instead we see a general trend to ‘engage’ with those breaking the law.
Miss Fitz – I see your point and in this society it can appear that a sectarian motive does distract from the wickedness of the crime. That however is a reflection on us – not the facts. Those complaining about the McCartney publicity could have hardly undermined their MOPE more eloquently.
I’m far from convinced that this crime was not sectarian though – for the very reasons Garibaldy pointed to. There is a fear that thwarts this investigation and that fear is generated by sectarian, violent, murderous and criminal organisations. The MOPEs are correct in bringing attention to the McCartney case (attention they attribute to be everyone elses fault but their own). Murder does not need to be sectarian for it to be foul. Organisations that contribute to thwarting the justice system don’t need to be sectarian either – but they are foul none the less.
I think the challenge you’ve put forward is a good one – murder is murder. Whether we view it as orange or green should not infect our judgement of it and I’d not be as concerned about whether it was sectarian or not.
In favour of your view though is the clear evidence given by the McCartney MOPEs that you are correct. To some the foulness of the deed cannot be assessed before the score is first counted.
Miss Fitz
A voice of sanity in a sea of madness
Surely the point Miss Fitz should be making is that sectarianism is wrong wherever it comes from? Ignoring religious sectarianism isn’t helpful whereas condemning it wherever we find it is slowly changing the acceptable norms of our society, just as racism has been tackled in other parts of the world.
It’s not an easy task nor will we be successful in the short term but I’d rather condemn both racism and sectarianism than have a guilty conscience for standing back saying nothing. Just to clarify my point – a sectarian motive makes a crime more serious IMO and I believe in the idea of prosecuting those responsible for for ‘hate crimes’.
Does anyone else feel that the timing of arrests on the exact anniversary of the murder was really a PSNI signal to those arrested (and to others) that they really are in the sights for this dreadful killing. I think the timing as significiant as anything – particularly if they were questioned previously.
‘I think the timing (is) as significant as anything’
Let’s hope so – there’s no doubt that we are moving towards a more widely accepted police service.